What do you think is the biggest misconception about Freestyle Cruising?

[hotspur]

I've also heard the "third shift" referred to as the "lobster shift" or "graveyard shift". Not really sure about the derivations of those terms.

From libraryspot.com:

 

According to Michael Quinion at World Wide Words the above explanation [essentially an old wive's tale] is merely a story and nothing more. He explains that the "graveyard shift is an evocative term for the night shift between about midnight and eight in the morning, when - no matter how often you've worked it - your skin is clammy, there's sand behind your eyeballs, and the world is creepily silent, like the graveyard. The phrase dates only from the early years of the twentieth century."

 

From word-detective.com:

 

Where "lobster shift" came from is the subject of a number of theories, most of which revolve around the newspaper business in the 1890's. One legend has it that New York City newspapermen on the graveyard shift often stopped at seafood restaurants for dinner on the way to work. Another, less complimentary, legend alleges that newspapermen on the late shift were habitual drunkards. Supposedly it was their bright red faces, resembling boiled lobsters, that gave the shift its name. As slanderous to the news profession as that story might be, the most likely contender for the true origin may be worse. At the beginning of the 20th century, "lobster" was a popular term of derision, meaning "sucker" or "fool." Any newsman who found himself snookered into working in the wee hours was likely to earn the title of "lobster" from his day-shift counterparts.

[mbisson]

I've also heard the "third shift" referred to as the "lobster shift" or "graveyard shift". Not really sure about the derivations of those terms.

 

I'm not familiar with "lobster shift" but grave yard shift (from what I was told when I worked that shift in a lumber mill) came from the the days when grave diggers would be expected to dig at night in order to have the graves ready to use the following day (and to do so without being seen by visitors to the cemetery).

 

Not postive it's true, but it makes an interesting story.

 

BTW-2nd shift is usually (again in my experience) called swing shift.

 

-Monte

[johnql]

Thank you, hotspur and johnql, for the explanations of "third shift". I did wonder if it was what, in the UK, would normally be referred to as night shift (typically 10pm - 6am). However, at least in my experience, this is not seen as a "lesser" job or shift and, with shift supplements, these might just be the people who can afford to travel on the QE2 :D

That's a good point about the pay differential. Third-shifters in the U.S. also typically receive higher wages than their daytime counterparts.

[johnql]

Thanks, hotspur and Monte, for the possible derivations of the terms. Very interesting.

[mbisson]

Google search found this in Wikipedia which sort of matchs:

 

"The graveyard shift or "grave shift" is a popular name for the "third shift" covering the early morning hours such as 11 p.m. to 7 a.m. or midnight to 8 a.m. The term derives from a time when a graveyard keeper would be one of the few people expected to work this shift."

 

 

-Monte

[jbtcajun]

I am glad I found this board.

My trip would have been stressed otherwise.

This is my first cruse.

NCL Sun

.

1st misconception all food and drink included. (had no idea they had different levels of quality and there was an additional charge for "specialty". My favorite drink with any meal is water and there will be an up charge for that.

.

2nd dress as you like to dine (as mislead in their commercials and web). I would have packed 1 pair of slacks and no button up shirts.

.

3rd there will be so many people in so many ways trying to 5 & 10 you to death. spa, photos, more cruses, and others. I will be on vacation trying to forget pressure why bother me?

.

Like I said knowing about these things in advance negates me having to stress about them on my vacation. Thanks CC

[johnql]

My favorite drink with any meal is water and there will be an up charge for that.

There is no charge for water unless you mean bottled water. The tap water on the ship is perfectly drinkable.

[dwrist]

Thank you, hotspur and johnql, for the explanations of "third shift". I did wonder if it was what, in the UK, would normally be referred to as night shift (typically 10pm - 6am). However, at least in my experience, this is not seen as a "lesser" job or shift and, with shift supplements, these might just be the people who can afford to travel on the QE2 :D

 

 

You are so correct.

My DH has worked 3rds for a long time. He has his Masters in computer science. Try keeping the main frame computers running across the world in a 8 hour daytime shift main frame computers meaning, IRS, United Airlines, Carnival Cruises(mother company), to name a few. These companies work 24x7.

The term a "lesser job" :mad: I think some people have a true caste system in their level of thinking. I think that person owes the many people that keep their electricity, gas, water, banking accounts, etc. going 24x7, an apology big time!!!

[beachchick]

I am glad I found this board.

My trip would have been stressed otherwise.

This is my first cruse.

NCL Sun

.

1st misconception all food and drink included. (had no idea they had different levels of quality and there was an additional charge for "specialty". My favorite drink with any meal is water and there will be an up charge for that.

.

2nd dress as you like to dine (as mislead in their commercials and web). I would have packed 1 pair of slacks and no button up shirts.

.

3rd there will be so many people in so many ways trying to 5 & 10 you to death. spa, photos, more cruses, and others. I will be on vacation trying to forget pressure why bother me?

.

Like I said knowing about these things in advance negates me having to stress about them on my vacation. Thanks CC

 

Just wanted to let you know that the only places you'll need to wear slacks (casual or otherwise) are the dining rooms and restaurants at night (not the buffet, shorts are fine there). If you have polo shirts with collars, those will work fine in place of button up shirts. So, as long as you don't spill and don't care about making a fashion statement each night;), you could wear those same slacks into the dining room/restaurants all week. (Now me? I pack extras for both DH and myself--I've been known to spill something before we even get out the cabin door!:rolleyes: )

 

You could easily pack one pair of slacks plus a polo shirt, aloha shirt or other casual button up shirt for each night, and be good to go (as far as evening dining is concerned). They're not looking for dress shirts, but rather shirts with collars and at least short sleeves (no open armpit tanks or t-shirts).

 

beachchick

[beachchick]

On NCL, the "auto" refers to them adding the tip to your bill as a convenience to you!!!

 

You can adjust it. If you're going to tip anyway, why be upset that it's taken care of for you when again, you can adjust it.

 

And it's adjustable on NCL ships so there's nothing mandatory about it.

 

Can I say this enough...The service charge is added AS A CONVENIENCE to the guest. It can be adjusted just as you would if you were handing out the money yourself.

 

Whoa, hold on a moment. Let me address this.

 

First, regarding "tip" versus "service fee" and whether it is "mandatory," I was referring to the way it's being discussed here, not what it says in the NCL literature or whether you can adjust it.

 

Second, I am not (and never said I was) "upset" that it's automatically charged on NCL cruises. I get why they do it that way. I said I prefer the "old fashioned" way of doing it myself. In addition to that, we tipped certain staff on top of the daily service fee because of the wonderful service (or in the case of our butler and concierge because they aren't part of the tip pool).

 

Third, I know you can adjust it by going to the CS desk and telling them you want to change it. I believe there's a form you fill out. This, it seems to me, requires more time and effort than just doing the envelopes myself.

 

Honestly, it's a convenience primarily for the pax? I disagree; I think it is equally for the pax and NCL's convenience. On NCL, they add the $10 per day automatically and require you to change it if you choose. It's a convenience for the cruise line and (more importantly) better for the crew because with freestyle you don't have the same servers and other staff (except cabin steward) for the entire cruise. I believe that part of the rationale is that pax won't want to take the time to adjust it anyway. That's fine because then the tip pool is larger. The "convenience" for me (as a pax) is that I don't have to tip at every meal like I would do at a land-based restaurant.

 

On RCI, you can opt to have it added or do it by hand, your choice. I like that better because, as I mentioned, I prefer to do it in person. But as that is really not practical on NCL, the automatic service fee works best.

 

Before I make my next statement, I feel I must preface it with this: We always tip, at a minimum, the recommended daily amount when cruising. Usually, we end up tipping extra to several people. (Although, we have skipped the maitre d' entirely because the ONLY time he was around was the last night with his hand out for tips. It was very off-putting. If he had only come around a few times during the cruise with a "how is everything" or "are you enjoying your cruise" or even "hello," I would have felt differently. I found his attitude offensive.) I have no problem with tipping well for good service; I put myself through my first couple of years of college as a waitress. I would NEVER not tip properly, and more often, we overtip.

 

Now my statement: Every single time anyone suggests that bad service on a cruise merits decreasing tips, that poster is attacked as a "cheapskate" or other derogative. I'm sure that some people are looking for an excuse not to tip. I'm talking about those who have experienced truly horrible service or had real problems (not that their soup was cold one night or their cabin wasn't made up early enough to suit them).

 

If I receive bad service at a land-based restaurant, I may leave a smaller tip; in a few instances over the years, we've not only not tipped, but spoken with the management. Those instances are few and far between--but they do happen, and they can happen on cruise ships as well. Why is it that we are expected to tip at least the minumum suggested amount no matter what kind of service we've received on a cruise? We've been fortunate and never had to deal with this issue, but there are members here who have.

 

In any case, I wanted to clear up some confusion about what I posted yesterday. Automatic service fee: Fine; Can be adjusted: I know; Stiffing the crew: Wrong.

 

beachchick

[hotspur]

If I receive bad service at a land-based restaurant, I may leave a smaller tip; in a few instances over the years, we've not only not tipped, but spoken with the management. Those instances are few and far between--but they do happen, and they can happen on cruise ships as well.

Last I knew all NCL ships have "management." They are usually much more accessible than "management" in a land-based restaurant. Anyone having a service problem should just bring it up. There are comment cards on every table, as well.

 

Sorry. In my view this kind of carping over the daily service charge is much ado about nothing. Absollutely ridiculous to have individual tipping on a freestyle cruise ship.

[shoreguy]

Sorry. In my view this kind of carping over the daily service charge is much ado about nothing. Absollutely ridiculous to have individual tipping on a freestyle cruise ship.

 

Could not agree more.

 

The biggest misconception is in fact you would be able to tip with envelopes the last night. It simply does not work.

[kdzgon]

Sorry, Cecilia, but you will never be able to say it enough, because some people will ALWAYS want to carp about it, insisting it's all a nefarious plot to nickel-and-dime them. They will never be convinced the room stewards aren't holding back on another tube of body lotion because they know they've got your automatic service charge in their pockets--allowing them to sell that body lotion on the black market in Belize. Just like the waiters NEVER give you refills on your drinks because they can take your service charge for granted. And bartenders will refill everyone else's drink on the ship before they give you a soda if you have a soda card.

 

Similarly, despite your courageous and wise attempt to put the issue to bed once and for all time in your original posting to start this thread, there will ALWAYS be know-it-alls who will insist NCL service stinks because the crew has absolutely no motivation to treat customers like anything but dirt.

 

People are funny, Cecilia. Even--or is it especially--on Cruise Critic.

 

Talk about carping - seems to me the majority of the posters here (myself included) have not made the "absolute" (and offensive) statements a few here love to keep referencing (but never actually "quote"...) yet feel the need to spend a lot of time trying to correct the misconceptions re: their posts. In eleven pages of posts, where pray tell are the posts (not simply claims of their existence by the self-appointed experts) that state anything close to what you are claiming here? In eleven pages, I found ONE post (out of 200+) similar to your reference of absolutes (and no refills).

 

Have there been "absolute" posts on the CC boards? Absolutely, but they are very far from the majority - and have NOT been a significant part of this discussion! YES, while I believe the "auto-tip" (a) is no longer a tip per se, and (b) does indeed affect the actions of some wait staff, therefore negating the classification as total "myth", I have NEVER come close to making any of your claimed statements. I agree I did not make myself clear in my original post (that it may have contributed to it, rather than it being an absolute SOLE cause), but that doesn't seem to matter to some posters. Cecilia challenged me, and I had no problem with that - I answered as best I could. Unlike this post (and those of a few others), neither she nor I resorted to any belittling remarks in our exchanges.

 

IMO, posts such as these do nothing except perhaps to discourage (relative) newbies from posting at CC.

[RichNY]

Talk about carping - seems to me the majority of the posters here (myself included) have not made the "absolute" (and offensive) statements a few here love to keep referencing (but never actually "quote"...) yet feel the need to spend a lot of time trying to correct the misconceptions re: their posts. In eleven pages of posts, where pray tell are the posts (not simply claims of their existence by the self-appointed experts) that state anything close to what you are claiming here? In eleven pages, I found ONE post (out of 200+) similar to your reference of absolutes (and no refills).

 

Have there been "absolute" posts on the CC boards? Absolutely, but they are very far from the majority - and have NOT been a significant part of this discussion! YES, while I believe the "auto-tip" (a) is no longer a tip per se, and (b) does indeed affect the actions of some wait staff, therefore negating the classification as total "myth", I have NEVER come close to making any of your claimed statements. I agree I did not make myself clear in my original post (that it may have contributed to it, rather than it being an absolute SOLE cause), but that doesn't seem to matter to some posters. Cecilia challenged me, and I had no problem with that - I answered as best I could. Unlike this post (and those of a few others), neither she nor I resorted to any belittling remarks in our exchanges.

 

IMO, posts such as these do nothing except perhaps to discourage (relative) newbies from posting at CC.

 

 

Finally a voice of reason....

 

"Many do take exception when someone says something that just doesn't reflect reality as we've experienced it--"

 

SOOOOOOOOOOOOO If it happened to you but it didn't happen to me ,you must be wrong or it just didn't happen...How can you argue with logic like that ???...:rolleyes:

__________________

[SailAways]

Talk about carping - seems to me the majority of the posters here (myself included) have not made the "absolute" (and offensive) statements a few here love to keep referencing (but never actually "quote"...) yet feel the need to spend a lot of time trying to correct the misconceptions re: their posts. In eleven pages of posts, where pray tell are the posts (not simply claims of their existence by the self-appointed experts) that state anything close to what you are claiming here? In eleven pages, I found ONE post (out of 200+) similar to your reference of absolutes (and no refills).

 

Have there been "absolute" posts on the CC boards? Absolutely, but they are very far from the majority - and have NOT been a significant part of this discussion! YES, while I believe the "auto-tip" (a) is no longer a tip per se, and (b) does indeed affect the actions of some wait staff, therefore negating the classification as total "myth", I have NEVER come close to making any of your claimed statements. I agree I did not make myself clear in my original post (that it may have contributed to it, rather than it being an absolute SOLE cause), but that doesn't seem to matter to some posters. Cecilia challenged me, and I had no problem with that - I answered as best I could. Unlike this post (and those of a few others), neither she nor I resorted to any belittling remarks in our exchanges.

 

IMO, posts such as these do nothing except perhaps to discourage (relative) newbies from posting at CC.

 

Is anyone else reading this as a complete misunderstanding of the previously quoted post?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[shoreguy]

Is anyone else reading this as a complete misunderstanding of the previously quoted post?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

 

I for one missed the linkage between the two but it happens everyday here in the land of CC.

[Planer's Edge]

I for one missed the linkage between the two but it happens everyday here in the land of CC.

 

It is all a matter of whom is more correcter than the other.:rolleyes:

 

You say black and I say white.....and the wheels go round and round.:cool:

 

PE<---thinks the land of OZ is easier to understand sometimes...

[SailAways]

I for one missed the linkage between the two but it happens everyday here in the land of CC.

 

Thanks - Makes confusion a lot easier to deal with when it is shared.:D

 

Great Words Of Wisdon PE.

[beachchick]

Last I knew all NCL ships have "management." They are usually much more accessible than "management" in a land-based restaurant. Anyone having a service problem should just bring it up. There are comment cards on every table, as well.

 

Sorry. In my view this kind of carping over the daily service charge is much ado about nothing. Absollutely ridiculous to have individual tipping on a freestyle cruise ship.

 

How on earth did you interpret my reasonable question as "carping"? Sure, if you have a serious service problem on a ship, you should discuss it with the management. But my question had to do with the fact that each and every time anyone brings up the slightest question or suggestion regarding decreasing a tip on a cruise because of truly poor service, that person is flamed as a "cheapskate." My question was why is it okay to decrease a tip amount on land if service is truly bad, but not okay to do the same on a cruise? That has nothing whatsoever to do with how tips are taken care of, whether it's automatically or in person. (Of course, the question is kind of OT to the main gist of the thread, but I have wondered about it.)

 

Did you even read my post or other posts in their entirety? I wrote, specifically and more than once, that I fully understand why it makes more sense to have an automatic service fee added because of the differences in freestyle cruising. I wrote that I have no problem with it (and I don't). We tipped additional amounts (in envelopes) to those who gave us excellent service (above and beyond), as well as our butler and concierge because they are not in the tip pool.

 

beachchick

[kdzgon]

.....I wrote that I have no problem with it (and I don't). We tipped additional amounts (in envelopes) to those who gave us excellent service (above and beyond), as well as our butler and concierge because they are not in the tip pool.

 

beachchick

 

I was told - rather emphatically - that butlers ARE included in the tip pool. I was told this at reception, when I went to inquire as to whether I could simply add gratuities for her via my shipboard account (the answer was "no", BTW - I also received the standard spiel about how there are no gratuities either required or included).

 

We tipped both the butler and concierge directly with cash in envelopes with notes of thanks.

[denims]

I was told - rather emphatically - that butlers ARE included in the tip pool. I was told this at reception, when I went to inquire as to whether I could simply add gratuities for her via my shipboard account (the answer was "no", BTW - I also received the standard spiel about how there are no gratuities either required or included).

 

 

I hope someone with more cruising experience with NCL answers your above quote. I have been told and have read on these "boards" that the bultler and concierge ARE NOT included in the tip pool!

[hotspur]

Did you even read my post or other posts in their entirety?

Yes. Of course I read all posts in their entirety.

 

Your posting at the top of this page just makes no sense to me. It concludes (1) that automatic tipping makes sense on a freestyle cruise; (2)that you recognize you can adjust the tip up or down, and (3) that stiffing the crew is wrong. Right. What could be better. It's the only workable system for freestyle cruising and, as Cecilia correctly pointed out, it makes life very convenient for passengers who otherwise would be carrying bills with them everywhere they go on the ship. But before reaching that conclusion you write a thousand words carping about automatic tipping. I just don't understand.

[shoreguy]

I was told - rather emphatically - that butlers ARE included in the tip pool. I was told this at reception, when I went to inquire as to whether I could simply add gratuities for her via my shipboard account (the answer was "no", BTW - I also received the standard spiel about how there are no gratuities either required or included).

 

We tipped both the butler and concierge directly with cash in envelopes with notes of thanks.

 

You got at least one wrong answers from reception. :( I also believe you can have a tip added to your onboard account. I always tip in cash.

 

GRATUITIES

Unlike most other ships in the cruise industry, there is no required or recommended tipping on NCL America or Norwegian Cruise Line ships. Guests should not feel obliged to offer a gratuity for service that is generally rendered to all guests.

However, all of our staff are encouraged to "go the extra mile", and so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities entirely at the discretion of our guests who wish to acknowledge particular staff members for exceptional or outstanding service. In other words, there is genuinely no need to tip but you should feel free to do so if you have a desire to acknowledge particular individuals.

Also, certain staff positions provide service on an individual basis to only some guests. We encourage those guests to acknowledge good service from these staff members with appropriate gratuities. For example, for guests purchasing bar drinks the recommended gratuity is 15 percent. Similarly, for guests using concierge and butler services, we recommend they consider offering a gratuity commensurate with services rendered.

[kdzgon]

Shoreguy,

 

I see your response in my email thread notification, but not here. I wanted to say I received the wrong answer on that issue at least twice on the Jewel, as I was told the same thing two different times - once from reception and once from the onboard credit desk. I had a similar problem with the BAGS program. I ended up with an extra tag, and asked three different people where/how to return it (as per the written instructions, I was to contact reception to have it collected). I never found anyone that knew what to do about the tag.

 

As to a previous poster's comments re: dress, while my mother was turned away wearing a culotte-style pant (well below her knees), jeans were definitely allowed in Tsars, as were shorts on a 14 yr old boy. We questioned the maitre d' re: the jeans, and were told "it's the Caribbean; people want to be more casual so we must allow it". Neither was allowed in the other main dining room or any of the specialty dining areas we patronized.

 

I cannot speak to any other NCL ship currently, but yes, the info was inconsistent while we were on the Jewel.

[beachchick]

I was told - rather emphatically - that butlers ARE included in the tip pool. I was told this at reception, when I went to inquire as to whether I could simply add gratuities for her via my shipboard account (the answer was "no", BTW - I also received the standard spiel about how there are no gratuities either required or included).

 

We tipped both the butler and concierge directly with cash in envelopes with notes of thanks.

 

Hm, weird. We were told the opposite and it was also in writing in one of the numerous VIP letters and notices we received throughout the cruise. Besides, our butler earned far more than $10 per day just for his service alone. Not a chance in heck that he wasn't going to get the biggest tip we could afford--and far more than anyone else. He was worth every penny and, on reflection, I wish we'd tipped him twice as much (it was our first butler experience, so we kind of "winged" it.)

 

beachchick