CC'er Neophite and Service Dog

[O2B@C]

My understanding is that people are abusing the use of service animals by claiming their "pets" provide some sort of symptom relief for various problems. There are legitimate uses but since it against the law to ask what the disability is or for documentation of the need, some people abuse the law by saying there dog is a service animal. ....

 

It may very well be against the law to ask what the disability is, for privacy reasons, but I doubt it's against the law to ask for documentation of the need, at least when the person with the disability is asking to be exempt from rules that apply to others. Are you sure this is true? Of course if you show up at a movie theater in a wheelchair they wouldn't normally ask for documentation before letting you use the wheelchair space, but the DMV certainly asks for a doctor's note in order for someone to get a handicapped parking placard. Why shouldn't a cruise line be able to ask for a doctor's note or something similar before they permit a service dog to board a ship, where dogs are not normally allowed?

 

Don't get me wrong. I love to see service dogs doing their jobs, I know what a treasure they are to the people who need them, and I would love to have a well-trained service dog as a fellow cruise passenger. If there really are people out there who are passing off their pets as service dogs in order to get around the rules that apply to all the rest of us, shame on them! We all miss our pets when we travel, but we put up with it. This kind of abuse could ruin it for the people who have bona fide (or should I say "bona fido":D ) service dogs, and that would be dreadful.

 

That said, there are dogs who are trained to alert epileptics to imminent seizures so they can get in a safe position or call for help, or to alert hearing-impaired people to noises like telephones, doorbells, and smoke alarms. I haven't heard of a heart attack dog, but I can easily see how that could be a legitimate category. Those dogs don't have to be any particular size, so there's no reason why a Pom couldn't qualify. But I agree that service dogs, to be properly trained, should not only know their specific jobs, but also how to behave correctly in a public location. All the ones I've seen have been perfect "gentledogs" in that regard!

[wizard-of-roz]

O2B@C: We are asked what is the need of my service dog by cruise ship lines; airlines; buses; trains and anywhere else that the public may go!

There is no "privacy law" when it comes to admitting an animal into a venue that does not usually allow animals.

And, a well trained/qualified service dog would NEVER be allowed to impede on to anyone's space or be rude or intrusive! :cool:

[O2B@C]

O2B@C: We are asked what is the need of my service dog by cruise ship lines; airlines; buses; trains and anywhere else that the public may go! There is no "privacy law" when it comes to admitting an animal into a venue that does not usually allow animals... :cool:

 

That's what I thought - thanks for confirming it from your own experience. I hope this reassures bdcbbq, who was the poster who originally thought there was a law against asking.

 

Here's hoping I can share a cruise with you and your dog someday!

[wizard-of-roz]

I hope so......you would be amazed at the miracle of these "wonder" dogs. Brenda can open/close door, cupboards and drawers. She can push the buttons in elevators and pick up anything off of the floor. She can alert to sounds and warn of impending traffice and alarms.

Just give her the appropriate command and she goes into action.

Canine Companions for Independence invests about $35,000 into each one of their highly trained dogs. And, we, the public are the recipients of their hard work. They only ask for a donation of $100 to cover the costs of the leashes/dishes/vests, etc. They don't give out these dogs so easily, though! You must pass rigorious tests and exams. You must prove your skills as a dog handler and prove that you understand the canine mind and dog behavior!

They are a truly remarkable organization. They are the Rolls Royce of dog trainers! Providing service/hearing and facitlity dogs all over the world! :)

Oy! I sound like a commercial. I hope that our paths cross on a cruise in the future. If you see me and you can't miss me and Brenda, please say hi!

We both love making new friends! :p

[bdcbbq]

That's what I thought - thanks for confirming it from your own experience. I hope this reassures bdcbbq, who was the poster who originally thought there was a law against asking.

 

Here's hoping I can share a cruise with you and your dog someday!

 

I should qualify my statement a little bit regarding asking being a law. My recollection is more that it would be considered "discrimination" to ask what the disability is.

 

I don't doubt that there are valid reasons to provide documentation. The article I read may have been referring to non-travel related places.

 

Any way you look at the issue, there should be no reason for anyone to prove the need because no one would ever abuse or take advantage of this type of situation. The point is that there are people who take advantage and abuse situations which is sad.

[dvdfreakmc]

Just to comment on whether someone can ask about a service dog, the ADA stipulates that individuals owning a business can ask what functions the dog performs, but can't ask for specific documentation or what the disabilty is (I provided an ADA business brief link from the Justice Department which outlines this). However, if a service animal is out of control and the individual does nothing (such as a service animal barking at the theater) they can ask to have the service animal removed.

 

http://www.ada.gov/svcabrpt.pdf

 

Believe me, we have been to tons of restaurants, hotels and planes, and found that hotels tend to be the highest offenders in denying or restricting access. Generally large chains both for hotels and restaurants tend to give the best access without question, but Mom and Pop places tend to be the least informed. I have heard cohorts say that they have historically had lots of problems with cabs, especially if you have to hail one.

 

The best place for access with service animals that we have been to are the Disney Parks -- THEY ARE FABULOUS. We stayed in Disneyland last November and everyone was super friendly, all the ride operators know what to do and were so cool about everything. Before the big trip to California, we tried Werin out at our local Hersheypark, but while friendly, they were no comparison to the well trained associates at Disney.

 

Of course, those of you whom have service animals know that one of the "benefits" of having a beautiful service animal is it takes about 2x as long to do anything in public, since you meet so many great people along the way who want to find out more about your dog. Just a simple trip to the grocery store can get to be quite the adventure. With Cameron being "mobile" rather than chair bound we certainly understand all the questions, especially with Werin having two leashes - one for me to give commands, and one to make sure Cameron stays with us right alongside. And while we got the badge for Werin's insignia that says "Please don't pet" it takes a constant watchful eye to keep that together. While Werin loves to be pet, it does get her very distracted so that she gets into bad habits after petting, such as sniffing others and doing other things that she is not supposed to do in public. We always tell people not to worry though -- she gets tons of love at home when she isn't working in public.

 

I am vowing to start a service animal web travel site someday for everyone to put reviews of places that give great access and those that don't. I currently put all my experiences with Werin on tripadvisor in my regular reviews.

 

Thanks again for all the tips and contact information. We'll reach out to those offering help. THANKS and Happy cruising!

 

Peter

[Tricia724]

This has been a fascinating thread, and I have learned so much from those of you who travel with service animals. As a dog lover myself, I marvel at the capability of these animals and the bond of love they form with their families.

 

I hope I didn't mislead anyone about the "dog lady" and the two small dogs that sailed with us to the Amazon. I heard many people commenting on them, but I never heard that the dogs were misbehaving or were not well trained. That was not the case.

 

I think most people were surprised because there were two dogs and because the dogs did not meet our expectations of a service animal. We are used to seeing German Shepherds and Labs and more impressive large dogs. These were two fluffy little dogs who were really cute but looked more like lap dogs than service dogs, but apparently they were special little animals who were trained and qualified. I could see that they wore some kind of vest but wasn't close enough to see it well.

 

At any rate, the cruise director left no doubt in anyone's minds that the dogs onboard had met all the requirements for service dogs, so that was good enough for me. I learned a long time ago that many people have problems that are not obvious, so the next time I see someone with a "non-traditional" dog as a service animal, I won't be surprised.

[Robin7]

These were two fluffy little dogs who were really cute but looked more like lap dogs than service dogs, but apparently they were special little animals who were trained and qualified. I could see that they wore some kind of vest but wasn't close enough to see it well.

 

One of the service dogs on our Oosterdam cruise was a seizure alert dog. Its owner said the dog has changed her life and allows her to go more places and gives her enough warning that she can lie down or find somewhere safe before a seizure hits. During the presentation, the Dr. also spoke about some dogs who can alert for cancer. How amazing is that?????

 

Robin

[wizard-of-roz]

When Brenda and I go into a restaurant/hotel/cruise ship/bus/train/plane.....the looks I get vary from astonished to "why does she have a service dog?" "She must be training it!" I get lots and lots of questions. It does take twice as long to do anything or go anywhere! I truly don't mind! She's an amazing dog!

Brenda also wears a patch that says "please don't touch, I'm working", it doesn't matter, people, especially children want to touch her. After all, she's in an environment where you don't usually see a dog!

I can re-direct her to go back to "the task at hand" very easily and my DH, Brenda and I get to make a lot of new friends!

When we're in Las Vegas and walking through crowds of people Brenda will walk in front and take the lead.....as if to "part-the-waves" of people to protect me!!! I simply put on dark glasses and "waalah", no more questions or funny looks! She only does this unique behavior in very large crowds......

What amazes me the most are folks who "stand their ground!" They see me coming towards them....they see I'm not blind...they see a healthy looking woman walking, with a dog, in a place where dogs don't usually go....and, they don't make room for her!! They will literally bump into me or her and I have to struggle to move her out of the way so they don't hurt her! This I'll never understand!!!!

Dvd: We travel all the time in all different hotel chains/restaurants, etc.. I have a list of places that have given us a "hard time!" I also work full-time and go to different venues on my job. I could write a book! If I weren't so busy living it!!!!!

You and your family will love cruising.....:p

[bdcbbq]

Dvd: We travel all the time in all different hotel chains/restaurants, etc.. I have a list of places that have given us a "hard time!" I also work full-time and go to different venues on my job. I could write a book! If I weren't so busy living it!!!!!

You and your family will love cruising.....:p

 

I wouldn't mind having a copy of your list.

 

My email is bdcbbq @yahoo.com Remove the space between q @

 

Thanks

[dvdfreakmc]

Good to know there is lots of room in the back Wizard of Roz. I think we will be great getting around.

 

Here's another couple of questions for the group though -- any shore excursions work better than others -- obvious the bus tours must be easy, but I assume in Alaska, the bear habitat is out (ha, ha), but any others that really don't work?

 

The other thing we are thinking through is Club HAL. Werin is "authorized" to be used with Cameron and another adult, since he doesn't give commands consistently, etc. But I am sure that Cameron will want to head to Club HAL for some activities. We are thinking of heading up with him. I think we will just play this one by ear.

[dvdfreakmc]

Where we tend to have issues with access with Werin comes up in these broad categories:

 

1) More rural locations, especially in Canada. Canada doesn't have national service dog legislation like the American's with Disabilities Act, so each province passes their own laws. Most laws until recently (2000 and on) were specific to dogs assisting the blind, rather than service dogs. So we have had some problems in rural Saskatewan with restaurants saying that only "blind assistance" dogs can come in. We usually carry a copy of the most current legislation which takes care of it. Also, the coasts and large cities we have had no problems in.

 

2) We have run into a few places including large hotel chains, such as Residence Inn that attempt to charge a "pet fee". It seems to us that hotels that cater to pets tend to easily fall into the habit of seeing a dog and charging a fee. In hotels where there are typically no pets allowed, it has not been a problem. I generally try to put that we have a service dog in the reservation request so that it is there for all to see. Any issues have been rectified, again by having the DOJ sheet with us going through the regs.

 

3) Small business owned restaurants generally ask questions or say you can't bring your dog in, but again this is typically because Cameron is mobile so he doesn't "look the part" in their minds. Once we pull out our certification card it generally takes care of it, but it does create some awkward moments.

 

I know that dogs trained to support individuals with autism is a very new field, so many of our access issues probably relate to that since Cameron doesn't have a physical issue that is obvious to folks. Once we explain, most concerns are concluded.

 

On planes we haven't had any issues, except that the TSA doesn't appear to have consistent training on what to do. I "love" the TSA workers that insist on having Werin take off all her collars, etc. thinking that she is so well trained that there is "no chance" she will get away. Per the TSA website, they are supposed to check the dog individually. The problem comes in that I need to get individually checked too, since I have to walk her through the screening. Maybe I need to find a collar for plane trips that is plastic only and can just go on through xray machines.

 

Another "behind the scenes" fact of having a service dog which I find hilarious is lots of people talk about you as they are walking past without talking directly to you as if you aren't there. i.e. "Oh look, they're training that dog" and the like. The other people that are funny are those that ask if they can pet the dog, but reach and pet before they have finished the question. Ha, ha!

 

We love telling people about Werin, and for Cameron -- telling you about Werin, looking you in the eye, having a conversation about her is a "therapy moment" so if you see us around and about come on up. We love hearing your dog stories and answering questions about Werin and how she helps Cameron.

[clopaw]

I have a suggestion for you in airports. I walk through the scan first while my husband stays on the other side. He sends Hero though to me, and then walks through himself. That way he doesn't have to go through the longer search, and Hero enjoys being patted down. No one has ever asked us to take Hero's harness off.

 

Interestingly, we had more problems on our cruise to Hawaii last year, than we have in all our Caribbean cruises put together. There were several places in the Caribbean where they still follow the old British quarantine rules, so Hero was not allowed off the ship, but every country has their own rules about animals. The only place we were turned away was a restaurant in Aruba.

 

On the trip to Hawaii, the problems started in our driveway, where the cab driver said he was not taking a dog. My husband works for the Ohio Civil Rights Commission and is their service animal expert, so that got resolved, but only after calling in to the cab company, and crying on my part. We walked into a grocery store in LA, and were told we couldn't be there. We asked for the manager who was very apologetic. A restaurant in Kauai tried to deny us access, but when we asked to see the manager, he grudingly allowed us in (to an open air restaurant, with birds flying around). Then on the way from the port to the airport to come home, the shuttle driver tried to keep us off the van.

 

Columbus in the home of Pilot Dogs, and at home we have never had more than a question about whether Hero is a service dog. (No, he's in the Village People and likes to dress up.) Hero, however, came from Guide Dogs for the Blind in San Rafael, California.

 

We have met many wonderful people cruising with Hero. We have been surprised the connections people have as puppy raisers, donors, or members of Lions Club. The ships' personnel have always treated us very well, and Hero is offered his choice of steaks, which he politely declines.

 

In Alaska, Hero stayed on the ship at Icy Strait, when they phoned over to say there had been bears around. Incidentally, when Hero cannot go with us, he stays with Guest Relations. They enjoy having him around. He went with us on the White Pass & Yukon railroad, the wildlife quest in Sitka, and Captain Larry's whale watch in Juneau. I think the only thing I would avoid besides bears, is small planes just because of the size of the cabin and trying to squeeze everybody in.

[clopaw]

Sorry.

[CruiseQueen13]

DVDFreak - hope your family has a fabulous cruise. It is difficult to get people to respect service dogs - and petting is discouraged. So darn cute. We sailed w/ a service dog and the kids were all over him the entire week. We explained to our daughter that petting was discouraged because the dog was working to help the gentlemen she was guiding. Of course she stared the dog down the entire wk whenever we passed him in the hall. Later in the week the gentlemen approached us and asked my dghtr if she would like to pet the dog now. She did and was thrilled. He said he wanted to give her the opportunity to pet him for a few since she was so respectful of him all week - despite wanting to play w/ him. He thanked us for understanding and teaching our child to respect others. Very sweet.

 

DVD - I had no idea service dogs could help children with autism. My neice has aspbergers (for those that don't know a form of autism). She does well in school w/ a p/t aid. Academics, speaking, etc are not issues for her. She has many fears and some obsessions - social situations are the toughest for her. She has meltdowns, tantrums and isn't able to predict the outcome of her actions.

 

I am very happy for Cameron that his world has opened up more thanks to your pup.

 

Enjoy!

[wizard-of-roz]

[COLOR=indigo][B][U]DVD[/U]: Not only do we have to worry about the flora/fawna and the local inhabitants, in port. But, please remember about the stray dogs that may come in contact with you and Werin........I'm so protective of Brenda when it comes to other dogs.......I always put her in "down/stay" until they go away![/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=indigo][/COLOR]
[COLOR=indigo][B]I so agree with all that you say and have experienced so many of the same things that you have....usually, her vest and license are all that is needed but it can become a very embarassing and frustrating!!!! I don't give in or up easily! And, like Cameron, I am mobile so business owners have a hard time understanding her significance! [/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=indigo][/COLOR]
[COLOR=indigo][B]Cabs and airport vans don't want us onboard! I too, struggle with this!!![/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=indigo][/COLOR]
[COLOR=indigo][B][U]CruiseQueen[/U]: I relax, a bit, onboard cruise ships, with Brenda. When children approach I do let them pet her. Especially in the crowded elevators....it's so, so hard to keep hands off of her. And, I don't want to turn people "off" afterall the space is limited and we certainly want to leave a positive impression on people who have no idea about these miraculous dogs! It's a very fine line that we must walk!!!!![/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=indigo][/COLOR]
[COLOR=indigo][B][U]Clopaw[/U]: What a great idea about airport security.....I will have my DH go through first....place all of Brenda's paraphenallia in the tray and then he will call her and they can pat her down, as they usually do. That will definitely save some time and frustrated looks from the passengers behind us![/B][/COLOR]

[dvdfreakmc]

Couldn't find your email on your ID, but we would love to hear how your "O" cruise goes -- just drop us a line at [EMAIL="dvdfreakmc@yahoo.com"]dvdfreakmc@yahoo.com[/EMAIL]