April 1st - How Best To Respond????

[ccrain]

Satellite access is still bad across the board compared to wired like cable or DSL but hopefully it will improve in the future. Unfortunatly if we want internet access onboard we are stuck with the worst kind of access, through a satellite relay.

 

Without some kind of consumer pressure, it probably will not improve in the future unless equipment obsolescence forces an upgrade.

[ccrain]

Probably an all inclusive or resort would be a better place for you to vacation for the type of internet access you require with your business. I spent a week at a Disney World Resort and for $9 a day they provided an excellent internet connection. Way better than you could get on any cruise line currently. a cruise vacation is not the best vacation for everyone.

 

I don't want or need internet access. I will live without it. I don't do business on a cruise and don't want to. I turn off my cell phone and don't turn it back on until its over. That's it.

 

However, I UNDERSTAND people that do require the access. I UNDERSTAND the frustration of having to do business while on vacation and more importantly IT MIGHT BE ME ONE DAY.

 

While my ox is currently not being gored, I do read with amusement some of the indignities offerred by people who turn a blind eye to certain plights, but squeal very loudly when their own pet perk is affected. (Examples are the prices for photos, the differential martini prices [i'm not a martini drinker, so why should I care] and the fever generated in the change in wording on dry cleaning for elites.)

 

So basically what I suggested to Princess was that they consider: a) upgrading the connection speeds to account for lag and in general improve the service, especially the server induced errors in logging in and out and b) consider granting the credit for wireless access as well, thus allowing laptop users to more efficiently use their bandwidth by working off line and only uploading and downloading completed files.

 

Both suggestions were not addressed in the reply letter, leading me to believe I was considered within the 5% and thus ignorable.

[ccrain]

But - if all the people getting free internet boycott and don't use it (the free minutes) and the paying folks keep paying (probably more since more computers will be available) - what does Princess lose and how does that teach Princess anything?

 

Princess contracted with an internet cafe subcontractor using past load factors in the revenue calcuations.

 

The way this would normally work is that Princess would reimburse the sub, pay cash, for each and every platinum/elite "free" minute. (This is the reason, IMHO, Princess limited the free internet in the first place.) So showing past platinum/elite load factors would garuntee a certain level of income to the new sub. Remember that limiting the plats and elites would only affect 5% of them - according to Princess.

 

Now lets say that the price increase to $0.75 per minute and the limiting of plats and elites reduces overall usage by 5,10,15,20%? That means the sub will not be getting near the cash flow they thought. Cash flow is king. If enough plats and elites didn't even bother to sign up, cash flow is even less.

 

Princess would not be directly hurt, but the internet cafe sub would then scream FOUL and want to renegotiate based on the new load factors rather than projections from the old load factors.

 

That may force Princess to rethink their internet strategy and either upgrade their access, reduce the prices or allow the plat and elite credits to apply to the wireless as well. Something that I happen to think is a worthwhile enough goal.

[bdjam]

Princess contracted with an internet cafe subcontractor using past load factors in the revenue calcuations.

How do you know this? My understanding is it's the same service provider that is used on HAL and Carnival ships, implying there's a Carnival Corporation connection. If that's the case, the volume is high enough so that a minor boycott on Princess isn't going to make a difference.

[cnmiranda]

Hi Ccrain, for us we probably won't sail Princess as much anymore. Probably switch to HAL then Princess as a second choice (doesn't make a difference as they're both owned by Carnival anyways). Part of the reason we sailed Princess so much was to get the free internet perks. My spouse works 10-12 hour days so he never uses the internet for personal use. For us the free net was a plus. Without it there anymore there's no reason to go for a Princess specific ship. It's not that we used the internet all that much but it was nice knowing it was there in case my spouse wanted to read a foreign newspaper.

 

Princess in my parent's favorite line and they never use the net but to tell me what a great time they're having and that they're doing okay.

 

Just our situation but I don't think the internet access thing will make a big difference for a lot of travelers. I think this may be the first step towards eliminating free internet service all together.

[spongerob]

While my ox is currently not being gored, I do read with amusement some of the indignities offerred by people who turn a blind eye to certain plights, but squeal very loudly when their own pet perk is affected.

I love a good turning of a phrase, so full marks on that one!

 

There are many hills to die on, so we choose to fight for those most important to us. The others have no strategic interest.

[MortgageChick]

On Sea days I need about 5 minutes twice a day to check in with the office.

On port days I use an internet cafe and deal with the bigger work issues at that time.

 

I am booked on my first Princess cruise , and since I pay 55-75 cents a minute with all the other lines I should be fine. I have a 150 on board credit for a coupon that was applied as a firt time cruiser so hopefully that will cover my internet and some.

 

I would think 10-15 minutes daily should be enough for most people.

[ccrain]

How do you know this? My understanding is it's the same service provider that is used on HAL and Carnival ships, implying there's a Carnival Corporation connection. If that's the case, the volume is high enough so that a minor boycott on Princess isn't going to make a difference.

 

You would have to come to some sort of equitable "split" in order to justify the costs of outsourcing versus the reduction in on-board labor. Both parties had to have something with which to base their cash flow and revenue analyses on.

 

Even with the Carnival connection, Princess is the only Carnival line that gives away "free" internet. Those "free" minutes had to be part of the cash flow and revenue analysis by both parties.

 

The only way to "project" cash flow and revenues was some sort of extrapolation using past load factors. Nothing else makes sense. No one in their right mind would go into this blindly and someone, somewhere in Princess used some sort of analysis that showed that this approach would save money.

 

Now on the fact that a minor boycott would make no difference to the equation is probably right. An equally logical inference.

[ccrain]

I love a good turning of a phrase, so full marks on that one!

 

There are many hills to die on, so we choose to fight for those most important to us. The others have no strategic interest.

 

I would change the word "strategic" to "tactical". "Most important" implies immediacy and immediacy implies tactical in nature.

 

My position in not using the internet is tactical in nature, but strategic in hopefullness.

 

Tactical in the sense that I don't want to worry about over charges, fighting with the purser, watching the clock or having to endure the glaring look of my wife while I post the latest missive on a live from thread.

 

Strategic in the sense that maybe, just maybe, others might follow my lead, and cause a minor perturbation in TPTB and a possible recalculation in their analyses that might result in something that would benefit some, maybe even me, in the future - better connection service and maybe credits towards wireless.

[Puzzled]

The scenarios range from ensuring we use every bit of our $75 each to boycotting the internet completely.

A third option would be to wait and see if it really has an impact on your cruise enjoyment. I used the internet extensively on my last cruise, a 14-day round-trip Hawaii, and my internet bill was not $75.

[latitude 22]

How do you know this? My understanding is it's the same service provider that is used on HAL and Carnival ships, implying there's a Carnival Corporation connection. If that's the case, the volume is high enough so that a minor boycott on Princess isn't going to make a difference.

 

It is the same service provider. With this contract there is an Internet Manager on duty about 8 hours a day. That is part of the package deal of bringing them onboard. This for the Dawn, Grand and I think the Carib. They are on a trial period and if it works will roll out in 6 months on the rest of the ships.

 

The Dawn on 12/1 had the old system, no manager and total chaos

when it came to passengers neeeding assistance. They in turn would interrupt the computer class that I paid to take asking the instructor for help! the instructor was just that and had nothing to do with the internet cafe.

[spongerob]

To be honest, I don't think it will be too much longer before we all have our personal communication systems anyway. All at a price, of course. Then, this discussion will be a mere sidebar in the history of telecommunication, and we'll all be rushing out to spend hundreds of dollars on the latest cellular/satellite/sub-ether/sub-space gizmo so we can clear out our spam e-mails on a daily basis, rather than waiting to get home and having to delete hundreds at at time.

 

When that day comes to pass, we'll all look back fondly on the days when we could "Escape Completely".

[bdjam]

Tactical in the sense that I don't want to worry about over charges, fighting with the purser, watching the clock or having to endure the glaring look of my wife while I post the latest missive on a live from thread.

So not only is the new pricing bad, but the assumption is that it won't work properly?

Strategic in the sense that maybe, just maybe, others might follow my lead, and cause a minor perturbation in TPTB and a possible recalculation in their analyses that might result in something that would benefit some, maybe even me, in the future - better connection service and maybe credits towards wireless.

I think rather than waiting for some strategically initiated result, you should just ask Princess for what you want. While your fight may be noble, I think the direct approach might do you better.

[ccrain]

I think this may be the first step towards eliminating free internet service all together.

 

I think its just a matter of time. Once a benefit reduction is internally justified, its only a small step toward the next one.

 

Princess CC benefits are a victim of their own success. With millions of members, such high benefits cannot be sustained. But by limiting benefits, animosity is created. Its a fine line to walk. Airlines do it my limiting the number of FF seats on a given flight, not by increasing the number of points per FF seat. That would be too obvious. I am sure that someone at Princess is giving this a LOT of thought lately.

 

I personally think the FCC is one in which they will change next. Its popularity is soaring, everyone is using them and its a real no-brainer. Where else do you essentially get $50-$150 dollar PP coupons on a cruise line at essentially no cost to you - what is interest on a $100 for a year or two? Add to that the member price reductions and you can see why on most Princess cruises you walk down the hall and see very few newbies.

 

Only the future will tell.

 

And now you all know what I do in my spare time while puttering around a hotel room at night after the brain has totally fizzed out...

[bdjam]

I think this may be the first step towards eliminating free internet service all together.

I’ll relate again what I read in Cruise News Daily (www.cruisenewsdaily.com). According to Princess, this change is not an elimination of benefits, but a change in the cost structure due to the change in service providers. The free internet benefits will be more than enough to cover 95% of the users who got unlimited free internet in the past. There is no intent to eliminate Captain Circle benefits.

Why should I believe what Princess has to say? Because it’s just a reasonable as believing the dooms day predictions, that’s why.

When the decision as to which cruise line to book comes to the price one pays for an internet connection, something is wrong. That’s like choosing a car based on the color the manufacturer painted the tire wrench.

[ccrain]

So not only is the new pricing bad, but the assumption is that it won't work properly?

I think rather than waiting for some strategically initiated result, you should just ask Princess for what you want. While your fight may be noble, I think the direct approach might do you better.

 

When internet was "free", I didn't worry about the slow speeds, lag or the inability to log out. A common occurrence, especially on the older ships like the Sun or the Dawn. I do know the Star and the Island have much better connect speeds and less lag, the Island even from Alaska where the Sun class has notoriously bad internet connections due to the northern latitude positions.

 

And I have asked Princess directly. Their response was a form letter that did not even faintly address any of my questions or suggestions.

 

So I'm taking the easy way out...It does provide me with a little more drinking time...tequila and keyboards do not mix.

[ccrain]

To be honest, I don't think it will be too much longer before we all have our personal communication systems anyway. All at a price, of course. Then, this discussion will be a mere sidebar in the history of telecommunication, and we'll all be rushing out to spend hundreds of dollars on the latest cellular/satellite/sub-ether/sub-space gizmo so we can clear out our spam e-mails on a daily basis, rather than waiting to get home and having to delete hundreds at at time.

 

When that day comes to pass, we'll all look back fondly on the days when we could "Escape Completely".

 

Looking over the past 10 years, we can look ahead to 10 years from now and see that information grid access will be everywhere and most likely free or even pay you to access. The trends are there, the technology close at hand.

 

In fact in 5 years, this whole discussion may be moot. Princess will be paying us to use their information pipeline - as long as they are allowed to collect and use our usage data.

[ccrain]

When the decision as to which cruise line to book comes to the price one pays for an internet connection, something is wrong. That’s like choosing a car based on the color the manufacturer painted the tire wrench.

 

The color of the tire wrench can be the difference between life and death...

 

or something deep and significant like that

 

Where's my book of confucious when I need it...

[spongerob]

In fact in 5 years, this whole discussion may be moot. Princess will be paying us to use their information pipeline - as long as they are allowed to collect and use our usage data.

Maybe the novelty will wear off by then. Remember when it used to be way cool to pay $25 just to call someone from a plane? :)

[phillipahain]

On cruises up to 20 days the new allowances = 10 minutes of free internet a day

 

However if you dare go on longer cruises that whittles down fast

 

If you even think about the 102 day World cruise you would get a mere 2 minutes a day

 

The World cruise also only gets ONE free Mini Bar set up for Elites

 

 

I already know 3 couples who have cancelled their world cruise booking in just one week and we are number 4

 

Basically Princess simply do not care and they have most defintely miscalculated the figures in their claims of "it only affects 5% of Platinums and Elites "

 

I spent a lot of my last cruise time helping Elderly Long Time Elite members sign up to just send one e mail in a 10 day cruise

 

IMHETheres a huge number of very elderly Elite who have no clue about using the Internet and that skews the figures for the rest of us younger Elites who do need to use it to keep in touch with elderly family or work

 

Free Internet was the perk we worked towards and now that benefits been reduced we will look at other cruise lines

[bdjam]

On cruises up to 20 days the new allowances = 10 minutes of free internet a day

 

However if you dare go on longer cruises that whittles down fast

 

If you even think about the 102 day World cruise you would get a mere 2 minutes a day

 

The World cruise also only gets ONE free Mini Bar set up for Elites

 

 

I already know 3 couples who have cancelled their world cruise booking in just one week and we are number 4

 

Basically Princess simply do not care and they have most defintely miscalculated the figures in their claims of "it only affects 5% of Platinums and Elites "

 

I spent a lot of my last cruise time helping Elderly Long Time Elite members sign up to just send one e mail in a 10 day cruise

 

IMHETheres a huge number of very elderly Elite who have no clue about using the Internet and that skews the figures for the rest of us younger Elites who do need to use it to keep in touch with elderly family or work

 

Free Internet was the perk we worked towards and now that benefits been reduced we will look at other cruise lines

I wish I had the time and wherewithal to do a world cruise... :rolleyes:

[tvaud]

I think your suggestions on how to 'show' Princess are rather silly.

 

If you really want to 'show' Princess, get 10,000 of your cruise

critic friends to cancel their future bookings, and refuse to

cruise on Princess until the policy changes.

 

The $75 / 7-days is fine with me, and if at some point, I feel

it's not, there are other cruise lines I can choose.

 

Now, what happened to italian waiters, a pasta course

with dinner, and $1 Bass Ales during London Pub night?

 

THOSE are important issues!

 

I'll second the Italian waiters and the pasta course.:D

[Toto2Kansas]

I’ll relate again what I read in Cruise News Daily (www.cruisenewsdaily.com). According to Princess, this change is not an elimination of benefits, but a change in the cost structure due to the change in service providers. The free internet benefits will be more than enough to cover 95% of the users who got unlimited free internet in the past. There is no intent to eliminate Captain Circle benefits.

 

Why should I believe what Princess has to say? Because it’s just a reasonable as believing the dooms day predictions, that’s why.

 

When the decision as to which cruise line to book comes to the price one pays for an internet connection, something is wrong. That’s like choosing a car based on the color the manufacturer painted the tire wrench.

 

You do realize you are fighting a battle you can't win with this I hope?

I totally agree with you, but to some, it is like someone cut off their right arm or something.

Of all the changes Princess and other cruise lines have made lately, this internet change is the least of our future cruise worrys.

[JLC@SD]

The bottom line is that I've come up with a scheme, probably based more in sophistry than in reality, to hopefully cause Princess a little discomfort in their decision.

 

The scheme is simply to not use the internet at all. Boycott the use, period.

 

So what are you going to do come April 1st?

 

I will be using the Internet while the two or three of you "boycott"......:)

 

The new policy .....I feel........is a direct response to the problem of all the platinums and elites pax......lending their cards to their friends......the solution explains in plain language what the problem was.....;)

[phillipahain]

Theres plenty of Platinum and Elite members who would never dream of lending their cards to anyone and who truly need internet access they have worked hard for that are going to be hardest hit

 

As for someone being on duty 8 hours a day ........what about the other 4 hours in the evening which is when those who know how to use the service are asked to help those who are newbies