Evangelical University Group on Zuiderdam - 10/27/07

[cruisebax]

After reading the posts about the Jazz musicians, Abraham-Hicks and poker tournaments, I decided to “google” our upcoming cruise – October 27, 2007 on the Zuiderdam. Sure enough, a student and alumni group from Biola University is planning a group cruise through Inspiration Cruises.

http://www.inspirationcruises.com/html/biola_university.html

 

From the Biola University website...

“Biola University is a private Christian university founded in 1908 and located in Southern California. We offer 145 academic programs, ranging from the B.A. to the Ph.D., through six schools. All are regionally and professionally accredited and based on evangelical Christianity.

The University has chosen to set a standard of behavior for all students, faculty and staff. The following behavioral expectations apply to all members of the Biola University community:

1.Those acts which are expressly forbidden in Scripture, including: premarital/ extramarital sex, homosexuality, drunkenness, theft, profanity, occult practices and dishonesty will not be practiced by members of this community.”

 

Has anyone ever sailed with them before? It appears they did an Alaskan cruise on the MS Westerdam in July of 2006.

 

The reason for my apprehension is that we are gay couple and don’t want to feel uncomfortable while on vacation. We sailed with Holland American before and had a wonderful time; this is why we are returning to the Zuiderdam.

 

I don’t know much about evangelical Christianity but researched and found many books, lectures and papers by Biola alums on “overcoming homosexuality”. This coupled with their close ties to James Dobson and “Focus on the Family” are making me think we should cancel this cruise and book another HAL cruise.

 

As experience cruisers, I seek your well trusted opinions.

[tompeter]

Or maybe you should take the cruise and use it as an opportunity to be....."cured":eek:

 

Personally, I would run in another direction. It may be you would still have a wonderful time but how can you enjoy a vacation being apprehensive about the trip. JMO

 

Tom

[TJL]

From the Biola University website...

“Biola University is a private Christian university founded in 1908 and located in Southern California.

 

This is a serious subject so please don't think I'm being overly flippant, but "Biola"?:eek: Sounds like some kind of ghastly disease. And these Ebola, sorry, Biola students think WE'RE the ones who need curing? Go on that crusie with your heads held high.

 

Cheers.

 

Tim.

[TJL]

Ooops, spot the typo, hence the re-post!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruisebax

From the Biola University website...

“Biola University is a private Christian university founded in 1908 and located in Southern California.

 

This is a serious subject so please don't think I'm being overly flippant, but "Biola"?:eek: Sounds like some kind of ghastly disease. And these Ebola, sorry, Biola students think WE'RE the ones who need curing? Go on that cruise with your heads held high.

 

Cheers.

 

Tim.

__________________

July 1997 - Land of the Midnight Sun

October 1999 - Eastbound Transatlantic

April 2004 - Cape Town-Southampton

October 2004 - Autumn Break

August 2005 - Canadian Crossing

June 2006 - Land of the Midnight Sun

January 2008 - QE2 Transatlantic (tandem crossing along with "Arcadia-with-knobs-on") fingers crossed

March 2008 - LA-Southampton fingers crossed (again)

[newfarmers]

run....very fast....away from that booking. Sorry, couldn't go on a ship with the thought some evangelical loser was drilling death stares through us

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

Personally I dont have anything against the heterosexual life style, you know as long as they act gay in public.

 

I would think that as much stuff they are against they would choose to charter an entire ship. The casino will be open, the bars will be open, people will be having sex. (thankfully and hopefully in the privacy of their staterooms) People will be smoking. The dancers in the shows wil be wearing very little.

 

If I were on this cruise I wouldnt act any different than I do on any other cruise. I know how to conduct myself in public no matter where I am. If someone is offended because of who I am that is their problem not mine. I will not do anything different to accomodate anyone because of their beliefs.

 

I wish them well though.

[ATLfuzzy]

I could almost bet that at any given time a similar group would be on any cruise....or those with the same beliefs. Don't run from them. Forget them and enjoy your sailing!

[txflyer]

This is a serious subject so please don't think I'm being overly flippant, but "Biola"?:eek: Sounds like some kind of ghastly disease. And these Ebola, sorry, Biola students think WE'RE the ones who need curing? Go on that crusie with your heads held high. Cheers. Tim.

 

I guess there are those of us that would argue that it IS a ghastly disease. BIOLA is an acronym for Bible Institute of Los Angeles.

[amusea]

It would be so helpful to know if we are talking about a group of 80 or 800. If the latter I would RUN.

[Schplinky]

We were on Westerdam the same week as a group of almost 200 gay men and 300 praise and worship fans. The world did not come to an end and I didn't hear one person remark negatively about either group. Groups tend to have their own tables and own meeting times (they tend to use the theatre in the daytime) so if you didn't know, it's unlikely you would even notice they are onboard.

[cruisebax]

We were on Westerdam the same week as a group of almost 200 gay men and 300 praise and worship fans. The world did not come to an end and I didn't hear one person remark negatively about either group. Groups tend to have their own tables and own meeting times (they tend to use the theatre in the daytime) so if you didn't know, it's unlikely you would even notice they are onboard.

 

I called the cruise booking agent, Inspiration Cruises, and they said they were holding 200-300 spaces but no reservations had been confirmed.

 

I will keep my fingers crossed. We just don't want to leered at, judged, or preached to while enjoying our vacation.

 

Thanks for your responses!

[Schplinky]

I called the cruise booking agent, Inspiration Cruises, and they said they were holding 200-300 spaces but no reservations had been confirmed.

 

I will keep my fingers crossed. We just don't want to leered at, judged, or preached to while enjoying our vacation.

 

Thanks for your responses!

 

I wouldn't want that, either, but that didn't happen on ours. I was very nervous heading in that the church people or the gays would be rude to one another but everyone just seemed oblivious.

[Ephraim]

For me, the deal breaker would be if it's a group that proselytes and what the cruise line would do if they did. I don't live by other people's judgement, but it would bother me to no end if they were trying to convert me all the time.

 

As I said in the other thread, the word evangelical is a synonym for proselyte in my dictionary. I don' t know the group and I would have to find out more. They could be very nice people for all I know. For me, that would entirely ruin my vacation, to have someone preach to me and try to convert me.

 

If, on the other hand, they were just there to enjoy their vacation in mutual respect, I would have no problem with it.

[Schplinky]

I agree with my Canadian friend.

 

Also, I wonder what would be the impression if the thread was about a gay group and everyone was chiming ion about no way I'd want to see that on my cruise.

 

My point (and I do have one) is that we all go runnign into our small corners so much and then claim disbelief when folks claim they don't know any gay people.

[etoile]

I'm not sure it's something I would be comfortable with, but if there was a cost involved in changing the booking (or no other date was suitable for me) then I wouldn't bother changing it.

 

Schplinky, thanks for mentioning that a gay group and a religious group were on board at the same time...I had just been wondering recently if the cruise lines tried to prevent that or if it didn't matter!

[02143]

My guess is that they won't harass you, but on the contrary, will try their best to avoid you and will probably be polite but scared if you end up on the same trivia team or whatever. They think they don't know any gay people and are probably very frightened and intimidated by actual out gays.

 

Anyway, there should be more than enough non-Biolans on the ship that it shouldn't affect your fun.

[Schplinky]

I'm not sure it's something I would be comfortable with, but if there was a cost involved in changing the booking (or no other date was suitable for me) then I wouldn't bother changing it.

 

Schplinky, thanks for mentioning that a gay group and a religious group were on board at the same time...I had just been wondering recently if the cruise lines tried to prevent that or if it didn't matter!

 

When we booked (we were not with the gay group), I specifically asked the booking agent if there were any groups. At that point, she could have said we don't give out that information but she out-right lied and said there was no group of 20 people or more on our sailing. You seem to need to be able to use Google to find these things out. There were, in fact, many groups onboard. There was a praise and worship/christian music fan group of about 300. There was a group for older gay men and their admirers of about 175. There was a group of about 80 doctors. There was a family reunion of about 25.

 

I can see the lines not giving out information in order to not discourage bookings but the HAL rep lied to me by saying there were no groups of 20 or more. In fairness, we were not inconvenienced by these groups except for once, when the gay group had a full bar reserved for their use.

 

Funnily, our friends booked their cabin through the gay group because the gay web-site didn't indicate at all it was for older gay men (and their friends). I don't think 40 year-olds are used to seeming like jail bait.

 

Of course, on HAL, being in our early fourties made us all among the youngest passengers, but that's another topic for another thread. I'm sure we'll sail HAL again in a few decades, when we will be their average age.

[latitude 22]

I was just checking to see if anyone else had posted on my thread below, unfortunately no...

 

and saw your thread...

 

I have to say this group would bother me as a straight married woman

 

I have a few friends who are born again Christians with a little bit of liberal leanings ..I can take them in small doses as they tend to get a little preachy.

 

The group you are referring to - from what the above friends say - are VERY hardline and interpret the bible in a way that I and mostly like you would feel very uncomfortable with.

 

What my true concern would be and is when it comes to groups is ...

 

will my personal access to public space be limited on a REGULAR basis throughout the cruise that I paid money to utilize.

 

Also wanted to comment about the Holland America age demographic..I started cruising whe I was 11 years old (I'm 40 now) Holland America was one of my 1st cruises..the old Noordam and Nieuw Amsterdam were my teenage stomping grounds...the next oldest passengers onboard were my parents. I loved every minute of my time onboard! I think it just depends what you are looking for in your cruise experience and if you need to interact with fellow passengers in your age bracket. The stories I could tell about the "old people" I met! WOW! I hope my life is that fascinating at their age!

 

Bon Voyage to all!

[Ephraim]

Funnily, our friends booked their cabin through the gay group because the gay web-site didn't indicate at all it was for older gay men (and their friends). I don't think 40 year-olds are used to seeming like jail bait.

 

Now you have me daydreaming about being considered jail bait. Hmmm, maybe I should get the name of this group. It's so much fun walking into a room and feeling like you are wearing a T-Shirt that says:

 

FRESH MEAT

 

on it.:D

[Typhoon1]

They can bless the ship before RSVP demonizes it next February.:D :D If only they knew RSVP "blessed" the ship in 2003.

[shepp]

People are entitled to believe any superstitious nonsense they want to, but the Dobson bunch are Xtians in jackboots. If I knew I were onboard with a bunch of Christbots who not only believed that I would burn in hellfire in the next world, but deserved to be stripped of my civil rights in this one, I'm thinking I would have one of two reactions. Either I would feel very uncomfortable, or I'd do my damndest to make them feel the same. Either way, it would put a crimp in vacationing. If I were the OP (but, of course, I ain't) I'd try and rebook. Guess I'll sacrifice a goat to Kali in supplication that there won't be organized gaggles of born-agains on my next cruise...though it would be fun to catch Ted Haggard backsliding in the steamroom.

[LUVBoat]

Geez guys...lighten up...small group on a 2000 pax ship... my cousin and I will be on this sailing with our families and don't fear getting struck down.

 

Look as it as an opportunity should you encounter folks from this group. Being from S. California originally and familiar with Biola I have never known anyone from there to be outright hateful.

[Fam_Cruise]

I would go and have a good time. If you are lucky, or unlucky, enough to engage students from Biola then take the opportunity to have an open dialog if that happens. We want others to have open minds, perhaps we need to keep our minds and hearts open also.

 

A few links below for some background on Biola that will provide excellent subject material should the opportunity arise:

 

Equality Ride Pushes L.A. Universities to Face History of Religion Based Discrimination

(paragraphs 6 and 7)

 

Biola University - Concerning GLBT Equality:

 

A Letter from an alumni of Biola University

 

A Letter from an alumni of Biola University

 

Oh, and if issues of Levicitcus comes up, just remind them that Levitical issues were previously resolved in 49 AD at the Counsel of Jerusalem as documented in Acts 15. Resolution: Most of Leviticus (Jewish law), including part about homosexuality, does not apply to Christians.

 

As with any subject, knowing the material helps considerably. And in so doing, you will probably discover that you never need to use it. Most Christians I know are very open and accepting. Now I am referring to UCC, UMC, and MCC folks for the most part. Unfortunately just like any group, the vast majority of Christians get a bad rap IMO from the Religious Wrong (aka: Religious Right) of which Ralph Reed, James Dobson and their ilk are a part. Sorry for going off on a tangent... JMHO.

[gemsm]

Just my .02 cents to throw in here.

 

My last cruise on NCL was on the Norwegian Wind with a group of 1,000 Mormons. They only inconvenienced their fellow passengers for 1 day when they had a revival meeting in the stardust lounge and it was off limits to other passengers (It hampered getting around the ship for a couple of hours)

 

Other than that -- they didn't dance, drink, smoke, or gamble so we had all of the bars, discos, lounges, and the casino to ourselves pretty much.

 

I would say go, ignore them, and have a good time

[frequent cruiser jock]

MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!! I will be as well on this cruise! I just came fro Europe with a extensive SPEEDO collection & Sarongs! I guess it will shock the Students over board! LOL

 

With groups like this, they cry out loud in the public, but if they are behind closed doors...FRESH MEAT!