Ship Wreck

[causeyoutdoor]

Thank you all for your kind thoughts and wishes. My boys are 15 and 17 and were traveling with a group of 18 total from the high school here. During the evacuation, they were divided up, as it was women and children first. They ended up on the last ferry boat from the ship to the harbor, and told me the ferry had a number of crew on board. The tour operator who put the whole thing together was great. The arranged for an earlier flight home. After getting the group together in Santorini, the whole group went to dinner together and waited for the new ship to arrive there to take them back to Athens. They finally got on the Perla at about 3AM local time and got back to Athens about noon. They said the Perla was better than the Sea Diamond.

 

They had planned to spend Friday and Saturday in Athens and Delphi, but with the accident, all plans were changed and the kids had dinner in Athens and flew home very early the next day.

 

I hope this answers the questions. If you have others let me know.

[Host Caroline]

There have been interviews here as well as a student group from NC was onboard as well .. sounds similar to what the west coasters are saying and. as unlike the Crown "list" thread last summer etc. I hope everyone can keep this thread "clean", void of unfounded speculation and use it as a source of information and support.. None of us were aboard and those that were should be the source of information...?????

[Admiral Horatio Nelson]

 

The captain apparently tried to free the boat from the reef PRIOR to evacuating the ship, sounding the general alarm, or calling for assistance. This is a violation of international maritime law, not to speak of the general negligence involved. In addition, there is speculation that the ship's captain trying to free the boat caused additional damage to the ship, and may have lead to the subsequent sinking of the ship.

 

I know these boards are supposed to be fun and games, but also remember that these cruise lines owe the passengers a duty of care to do the right thing. The consequences of not doing the right thing can obviously be devastating.

 

I can understand you must be feeling relieved right now as well as shaken. Just so you know there is an SOP for dealing with all situations onboard cruise ships. One thing people often get confused with is procedures for incidents like this. When the Crown listed a lot of people on this board where saying 'Why was the first call received by emergency services from a passenger on their cell phone?' And in this incident, 'why was there a time lapse before the general alarm was sounded?

 

Any incident has a set procedure, and the first procedure in the case of the Crown list would have been to send out assessment parties to find out about damage and injuries. This info is then relayed back to the bridge where the captain, staff captain and bridge officers will be checking instruments and to make sure the ship is not in any further danger. From there the captain will decide on the next course of action. This takes a little time (especially on a ship the size of the Crown), there is no reason to call anyone before this point. They are not going to pick up the phone and frantically call for help when they don't know all the information.

 

As for the Sea Diamond the first part of the above should have been the same. Assessment parties should have been sent down to see what damage had been caused by the collision, if the damage had been seen to be slight or no water was coming in then trying to free the ship is a plausible action to try. However this is where the mistake may have been made. It's all just guessing for us, but I think the running aground was where the main error (if any) lies. To assume they didn't follow procedures after the incident is unfair I think until we know more.

 

A time lapse of half an hour for the abandon ship to be given is not unrealistic in an incident. Remember the ship took 15 hours to sink.

 

As for safety, just so you all know, the rules for SOLAS (Safety Of Lives At Sea) apply to all cruise ships regardless where they are registered. These safety regulations are taken VERY seriously and are enforced often with strict inspections. The fact this ship was SOLAS compliant meant she was in good shape.

[LidoLoungerDude]

My kids were on board when the crash occurred and returned home yesterday. For those in the LA area, they were interviewed by NBC news and it aired on last night's local news. The most disturbing thing they told me of the whole thing was that there was a delay of about 30 minutes from when they hit the reef until when the general alarm was sounded. They waited on deck for about 3 hours to be evacuated.

 

The captain apparently tried to free the boat from the reef PRIOR to evacuating the ship, sounding the general alarm, or calling for assistance. This is a violation of international maritime law, not to speak of the general negligence involved. In addition, there is speculation that the ship's captain trying to free the boat caused additional damage to the ship, and may have lead to the subsequent sinking of the ship.

 

My kids are pretty stressed over their ordeal. The fact that appears to have been loss of life has really rattled them. One son told me that he hasn't slept much since this all occurred because each time he closes his eyes, he relives it all in his mind. We finally got him to sleep last night after he had been awake for about 36 straight hours and traveled home early.

 

I know these boards are supposed to be fun and games, but also remember that these cruise lines owe the passengers a duty of care to do the right thing. The consequences of not doing the right thing can obviously be devastating.

 

In the Navy we used to call them "sea lawyers" seems to be plenty of them on CC as well! :rolleyes: So exactly which "maritime law" are you referring? :confused:

[Plant]

I have a few questions for the experts (I am NOT one!).

 

Shouldn't this area be well charted? Unless there was something unusual (i.e., a wrecked ship or boat) underneath, why wouldn't the Captain know what was under the ship (the reef)?

 

Why would they let the ship sink? There were plenty of tugs holding her up. Why not patch the "hole" before trying to move her?

 

As close as she was to port, was there not a pilot on board? If not, why not? If so,...?

 

I'm "assuming" (yes, I know) that the Chief Steward and Chief Housekeeper were summoned to give a deposition as to what happened from their viewpoint. From what I understand, they should have made sure every passenger in every cabin was evacuated (and not left the ship until this was done).

 

Is it possible that this is an insurance thing?

 

These questions may be "silly", but they're just things I've thought of :o .

[sag1804]

I live in raleigh, nc. this has been on the news a lot as 2 different high schools in this area were on it. Tramatic but would not keep them from cruising again. take care. :cool:

[cnmiranda]

I have a few questions for the experts (I am NOT one!).

 

Shouldn't this area be well charted? Unless there was something unusual (i.e., a wrecked ship or boat) underneath, why wouldn't the Captain know what was under the ship (the reef)?

 

Why would they let the ship sink? There were plenty of tugs holding her up. Why not patch the "hole" before trying to move her?

 

As close as she was to port, was there not a pilot on board? If not, why not? If so,...?

 

I'm "assuming" (yes, I know) that the Chief Steward and Chief Housekeeper were summoned to give a deposition as to what happened from their viewpoint. From what I understand, they should have made sure every passenger in every cabin was evacuated (and not left the ship until this was done).

 

Is it possible that this is an insurance thing?

 

These questions may be "silly", but they're just things I've thought of :o .

 

As Globaliser and Host Caroline pointed out above, relying on the newspaper or televised news is the best source for credible information instead of conjecture on a message board. I think most of us are "experts" in our own minds:)

[Admiral Horatio Nelson]

I have a few questions for the experts (I am NOT one!).

 

Shouldn't this area be well charted? Unless there was something unusual (i.e., a wrecked ship or boat) underneath, why wouldn't the Captain know what was under the ship (the reef)?

 

Why would they let the ship sink? There were plenty of tugs holding her up. Why not patch the "hole" before trying to move her?

 

As close as she was to port, was there not a pilot on board? If not, why not? If so,...?

 

I'm "assuming" (yes, I know) that the Chief Steward and Chief Housekeeper were summoned to give a deposition as to what happened from their viewpoint. From what I understand, they should have made sure every passenger in every cabin was evacuated (and not left the ship until this was done).

 

Is it possible that this is an insurance thing?

 

These questions may be "silly", but they're just things I've thought of :o .

 

The area is well charted, any changes to the area are added to charts in what are known as 'chart corrections' which are updated weekly to all ships that travel in areas. Anything that was newer (i.e. in the last day or so) would have been sent out (if known about) by Inmarsat EGC SafetyNet or Navtex, which are systems to allow the bridge to get the latest info. They are printed off automatically from bridge equipment and are set (by the bridge officers) to the are where they are sailing. Anything that happend in the preceediing hours may have been sent out as a verbal warning by other mariners in the areas using DSC system on marine radio.

 

There also should have been a pilot onboard. However some areas in the world will allow the captain to pilot his own vessel if he is qualified pilot himself in a particular area, and this may have been the case. It is possible however that the pilot was there, I have heard of collision with pilots onboard in the past.

 

I don't think they 'let' the ship sink. Tugs could not hold up the ship, a 22,000 GRT ship filled with water would pull down anything attached to it. As for patching, it would take a long time to achieve and putting people onboard a sinking ship is dangerous. What often happens in this case if possible is the ship can be beached to prevent further beaching and then be repaired and re-floated, however in this case it was not possible as that area is very deep with no beaches.

 

When there is an incident it is the responsibility of members of the crew to check the cabins to make sure passengers have evacuated, usually the cabin stewards. After they check a cabin they close the door and place something over the handle to show it's been checked and leave the area once all their cabins have been checked. It is possible the people who are unaccounted for returned to their cabin after it had been checked or were not in their cabin at all at the time of the collision (or that the cabin steward missed them).

 

All of the above are SOP in incidents onboard cruise ships and bridge info is the same on all ships based on international GMDSS system (Global Maritime Distress and Safety System) which I hold a licence for large vessels. Whether this all happened will be I would imagine what the investigation will try to establish.

 

Any insurance they receive will not make up for the lost credibility the company will suffer as a result of this incident.

[Admiral Horatio Nelson]

 

What often happens in this case if possible is the ship can be beached to prevent further beaching and then be repaired and re-floated,

 

Just read my own post later in the day, should have read 'beached to prevent further sinking'

[UK family]

Just read my own post later in the day, should have read 'beached to prevent further sinking'

 

It is making interesting reading to hear different accounts of this very sad situation. Once again my heart goes out to anyone who has been involved in any way.

The situation has set me wondering and I hope that you, Admiral can help me please (I thought I would ask you as you seem to be very knowledgable about this sort of thing and can be relied upon).

 

 

.Following a short piece of news in one of the papers this morning from a lady who was on the Sea Diamond. She reported that it "was chaos and there were no lifejackets to be found. It took around 40 minutes to find a life jacket". - that in itself must have been very frightening.

Now... what I was wondering is this;-

If you/I/anyone were on our cruise ship, wherever/doing whatever and a similar situation were to occur...

 

 

1) We know our lifejackets are stowed in our wardrobes in our cabins. - IF a situation such as this were to arise, then it is understandable that no jackets could be found if water were coming into the cabins and those areas were closed off... ARE EXTRA jackets kept somewhere else???? (please say yes!!!) for situations like this? Otherwise.....:eek:

 

...and whereabouts are the jackets kept if this situation arises??- Just so that we know.

Regards

[spongerob]

...and whereabouts are the jackets kept if this situation arises??- Just so that we know.

Regards

Speaking only about Princess ships, there are lockers on the Promenade deck near the doors. They are labeled with a green sign that has a picture of a lifejacket. I'm not sure how many jackets are in these lockers. They are sealed closed with a simple plastic tie so that anyone could probably open them quite easily in case of emergency.

 

I imagine most ships have something similar, depending on the line and the construction of the ship.

[Admiral Horatio Nelson]

Speaking only about Princess ships, there are lockers on the Promenade deck near the doors. They are labeled with a green sign that has a picture of a lifejacket. I'm not sure how many jackets are in these lockers. They are sealed closed with a simple plastic tie so that anyone could probably open them quite easily in case of emergency.

 

I imagine most ships have something similar, depending on the line and the construction of the ship.

 

Yes this is true, it is a requirment that enough life jackets for all souls onboard be kept at life boat stations. As Spongerob said they are labelled and should be pointed out by crew during boat drills. It is possible that the people who reported they couldn't find them did not hear this info at the boat drill. These cabinets are not locked for obvious reasons and should be indentified when you first join the ship.

 

I always walk around my new ship and check that I know these things and also (at least) two ways from my cabin to a life boat station obviously in case one is blocked due to fire etc.

 

The line I am with right now does not store life jackets in cabins, they keep them all at life boat stations. Not sure if I like that?

[UK family]

Speaking only about Princess ships, there are lockers on the Promenade deck near the doors. They are labeled with a green sign that has a picture of a lifejacket. I'm not sure how many jackets are in these lockers. They are sealed closed with a simple plastic tie so that anyone could probably open them quite easily in case of emergency.

 

I imagine most ships have something similar, depending on the line and the construction of the ship.

Yep, your'e right Spongerob - I can recall seeing them now:)

[UK family]

Yes this is true, it is a requirment that enough life jackets for all souls onboard be kept at life boat stations. As Spongerob said they are labelled and should be pointed out by crew during boat drills. It is possible that the people who reported they couldn't find them did not hear this info at the boat drill. These cabinets are not locked for obvious reasons and should be indentified when you first join the ship.

 

I always walk around my new ship and check that I know these things and also (at least) two ways from my cabin to a life boat station obviously in case one is blocked due to fire etc.

 

The line I am with right now does not store life jackets in cabins, they keep them all at life boat stations. Not sure if I like that?

 

Good points - hmmm, know what you mean about your last point, not sure if I would be happy about that one either. Certainly makes you think though.

[chienfou]

Having just been on this same ship a couple of weeks ago (see earlier post in this thread) I can attest to the fact that the crew did, in fact, address the issue of life jackets being available -- outside of the ones in the berths, during an emergency. It has also been mentioned in either this thread or another on the same topic, that it is possible some people did not attend the safety drill on departure. While I cannot entirely rule this out, I know that the staff was checking all the areas of the boat when the drill occured, as I ran into several of them on the way to the drill who were doing just that.

As for the possibility that the Frenchman and his daughter returned to their rooms after they were checked by the crew, it seems unlikely if I am reading the news accounts correctly. If their cabins were where I have seen them described, they were in the starboard front of the ship, in the area that the breach seems to have occured. Some of my students were in rooms 2202 to 2208 and I can attest to the fact that the portholes in those rooms are just at the waterline. IF the hull breach affected their room, it is unlikely they could have re-opened the door against the water pressure. This is also a very plausible scenario for their missing, as I have seen some reports that the wife was able to get out the door as the cabin was flooding, and if they did not follow her out immediately it is not unbelievable that they could not open the cabin door once the water had reached a certain level, much like you can't easily escape a car in the water by opening a door due to the force of the water pressure.

While Louis lines is not a luxury operation by any means, the staff I dealt with were very professional and caring. I feel certain that there was plenty of confusion and chaos in the ensuing evacuation, but I am likewise reasonabley certain that it was handled as well as could be expected given the circumstances. As in any true emergency you cannot be sure how you (or anyone else) will respond until you are actually faced with the situation. You can only hope that you will rise to the occasion and be an asset instead of a liability. In this respect, training and professionalism will help.

[Jacqueline]

I am not a big fan of lifeboats in cabins. Here is why;

1) I don't think that having everyone scurry back to their cabins is going to do anything to lessen the mayhem. I can see people packing things up (really) to take.

2) Sometimes passengers should NOT be going back to their cabins as a result of the event perhaps taking place at our near the location of their cabins.(think what may likely have happened in the case of the French people who were the only fatalities).

3) We all know how narrow these corridors are. Think of when the cabin stewards have their carts in the hallway...

4) On some cruiselines, they have pax wear lifejackets at some point during the drill while moving about (say to muster stations). This is an accident waiting to happen ! All sorts of bits and pieces are on the floor and are a tripping hazard. It is difficult to imagine why people find it so hard to don these correctly during a DRILL. I can imagine it when should there be a call to evacuate the ship.

Explaining to passengers where they(the jackets) are at the drill(and that there are plenty for everyone), will make it more likey that all will proceed to the area where they are assigned.

Just my thoughts !

[chienfou]

I am not a big fan of lifeboats in cabins...

 

The cabins are generally quite small enough without putting a lifeBOAT in there as well...

[turbo46032]

I am not a big fan of lifeboats in cabins. Here is why;

 

But look at the time you save during DIY disembarkation :D

[Admiral Horatio Nelson]

I am not a big fan of lifeboats in cabins. Here is why;

1) I don't think that having everyone scurry back to their cabins is going to do anything to lessen the mayhem. I can see people packing things up (really) to take.

 

Having life 'jackets' (which is what I am sure you meant) in your cabins is for incidents that occur when passengers are in their cabins so they can be put on straight away. They don't expect you to go back to your cabin to get it. This is why it is mandatory to have enough at the life boat stations. In fact I would hope everybody realises that you should never go back for your life jacket (or anything else for that matter).

 

As for packing things, bags and suitcases would not be permitted into lifeboats, only people.

[UK family]

Having life 'jackets' (which is what I am sure you meant) in your cabins is for incidents that occur when passengers are in their cabins so they can be put on straight away. They don't expect you to go back to your cabin to get it. This is why it is mandatory to have enough at the life boat stations. In fact I would hope everybody realises that you should never go back for your life jacket (or anything else for that matter).

 

As for packing things, bags and suitcases would not be permitted into lifeboats, only people.

 

Admiral...I know I can be a little dense at times...But I am confused now! I have had the pleasure of taking around 25 cruises now, and consider myself to be a seasoned cruiser. In all those times I have cruised I have always, honestly thought that if the emergency signal sounded I had to proceed to my cabin, fetch my lifejacket and then proceed to my designated muster station. Now I am confused.

Maybe it is time (as I think someone suggested earlier) that it is made very plain that there are enough life jackets up on deck also?

Have I not been paying attention all these years- or have just been misled?? Now I'm not sure!!

Maybe a MAJOR re-think is necessary is light of the recent accident in what we are told do you think?

[ozland]

Excellent point! Although I was vaguely aware that there are lifejackets on deck, I have been *more aware* that my lifejacket was in my cabin. In an emergency, and if it were possible, that would have been my focus for retrieval of a lifejacket--unless I saw others retrieving them from the storage areas on deck. I will make a point of locating these areas as suggested by the Admiral!

[Jacqueline]

Well, my foot does fit in my Mouth just fine !!!

I agree with the other cruisers who just posted. Perhaps as a result of all those lifeboat drills that have us going to our cabins first, we have perhaps ingrained this in our minds.

I was jesting about packing up belongings... really. But with 3,000 on a ships, I say anything is possible.

[Admiral Horatio Nelson]

Admiral...I know I can be a little dense at times...But I am confused now! I have had the pleasure of taking around 25 cruises now, and consider myself to be a seasoned cruiser. In all those times I have cruised I have always, honestly thought that if the emergency signal sounded I had to proceed to my cabin, fetch my lifejacket and then proceed to my designated muster station. Now I am confused.

Maybe it is time (as I think someone suggested earlier) that it is made very plain that there are enough life jackets up on deck also?

Have I not been paying attention all these years- or have just been misled?? Now I'm not sure!!

Maybe a MAJOR re-think is necessary is light of the recent accident in what we are told do you think?

 

Don't worry, this is a common mistake. The problem is at the start of the boat drill they say, "Please go back to your cabin put on your life jacket and head to your designated muster station." right? The only reason they want you to collect your jacket from your cabin is so they can show you how to wear it and you can practise putting it on.

 

Problem is people think that if there is an incident you should follow everything from the drill including that part of the drill. When in fact when the appropriate signal is given you should proceed directly to your muster station NOT to your cabin. Here are a couple of scenarios:

 

You awake at 3am (hopefully in your own cabin) to the general alert, in this scenario at this time you should put on your life jacket that is in your cabin and head to your muster station. During the boat drill they usually say this: "If you awake to the General alert you should put on warm clothing and your life jacket and then proceed to your muster station."

 

You are in the theatre or on lido deck and the general alert sounds you should go to your muster station, not to your cabin. When the crew lead you to your life boat station they will issue you with a jacket from the stores on that deck.

 

Expecting everyone to return to a cabin to collect a life jacket would be dangerous, what if your cabin is in the area where the incident occurred? So you rush back to your deck only to be confronted with a raging fire? Not good. Not only that but even if you were able to get you jacket, you are wasting valuable time.

 

So to make it short and clear, only collect your jacket from your cabin if you are in your cabin. Otherwise head to your muster station and you will given a jacket there before you embark your lifeboat.

 

Like I said in an earlier post, the line I am with now don't even keep jackets in the cabins, just at the lifeboat stations.

[we2cruze]

Admiral, Can I assume that the bins at the lifeboat stations also contain life jackets for children, since the cabin steward always has to go get one for my children for the muster drill?

[Admiral Horatio Nelson]

Admiral, Can I assume that the bins at the lifeboat stations also contain life jackets for children, since the cabin steward always has to go get one for my children for the muster drill?

 

You can.

 

The cabin steward would get the jackets from stores kept in their storage areas as not every cabin has children staying there.

 

For ships with children's facilities (Camp Carnival etc), the crew manning those areas would take children to muster stations and help them into jackets from those very bins.