NCL website: Dawn-Bermuda-stops at Grassy Bay??? (6/1; 6/15; 8/3 of '08)

[herb]

I found this information on the NCL site... it's for the June 1, June 15 and Aug. 3 sailings of '08 It states that on one day the ship is in Grassy Bay? I've been to Bermuda before but I've never heard of this stop on any Bermuda Run! Anyone know what that's all about?

[electricron]

Grassy Bay is an anchorage just East of King's Wharf pier area.

If your Dawn's itinerary states Grassy Bay, that means the Dawn will anchor and use tenders that day. If your Dawn's tinerary states King's Wharf, that means the Dawn will dock at the King's Wharf pier.

Previous threads on Grassy Bay have maps of Grassy Bay, in case you wish to see the map.

Do a search, they weren't posted that long ago.

[herb]

I guess that means that for 2 days we will be at the King's Wharf Pier and on the 3rd day we will have to tender!? Now isn't that dumb!! :confused:

[electricron]

I guess that means that for 2 days we will be at the King's Wharf Pier and on the 3rd day we will have to tender!? Now isn't that dumb!! :confused:

 

Blame Bermuda. King's Wharf apparently is the only Bermuda pier that can accomodiate the Dawn. Apparently, it can only support one ship at a time. If two ships wish to stay at King's Wharf at once, one will have to anchor and use tenders.

 

NCL could always add an extra At Sea day to your itinerary. But then you'll lose one day in Bermuda. Wouldn't you rather tender that extra day?

[herb]

I guess my point was that since we're at the Kings Wharf Pier already let the other ship that arrives at Bermuda AFTER us tender ;)

[shoreguy]

I guess my point was that since we're at the Kings Wharf Pier already let the other ship that arrives at Bermuda AFTER us tender ;)

 

I guess the fact the pier was already booked by another ship BEFORE NCL decided to run this itinerary then that ship should have to give up the dock :confused: - I don't think so ;) :D

[electricron]

Well, there wouldn't be a problem if Bermuda increased the pier capacity at King's Wharf. But that's the rub, they haven't.

 

Bermuda has been talking about increasing the pier capacity at King's Wharf for years, but hasn't spent a penny on any pier construction. I would certainly prefer to see some dirt flying.

 

Earlier this year, I read the Bermuda government was seeking some financial partners, from all of the cruise lines. Apparently, not one has answered them.

 

Piers can cost anywhere from $10 to $20 million each. Wonder when and where Bermuda is going to find that amount of cash?

 

They have to be careful where they expand their port facilities.

Bermuda is built ontop of live coral reefs, and construction activities will kill the coral if they aren't careful.

 

Of course, cruise ships dropping heavy anchors ontop of the coral can kill the coral too. It'll be interesting to learn if the Dawn actually drops its anchor, or sets up station keeping with its thrusters.

[fin]

Personally, I think it is a shame that they retired the Crown from that run. I hate to see the environment trashed, no matter where it is, but Bermda years ago was a particularly lovely destination.

[cliffd64]

Well, there wouldn't be a problem if Bermuda increased the pier capacity at King's Wharf. But that's the rub, they haven't.

 

Bermuda has been talking about increasing the pier capacity at King's Wharf for years, but hasn't spent a penny on any pier construction. I would certainly prefer to see some dirt flying.

 

Earlier this year, I read the Bermuda government was seeking some financial partners, from all of the cruise lines. Apparently, not one has answered them.

 

Piers can cost anywhere from $10 to $20 million each. Wonder when and where Bermuda is going to find that amount of cash?

 

They have to be careful where they expand their port facilities.

Bermuda is built ontop of live coral reefs, and construction activities will kill the coral if they aren't careful.

 

Of course, cruise ships dropping heavy anchors ontop of the coral can kill the coral too. It'll be interesting to learn if the Dawn actually drops its anchor, or sets up station keeping with its thrusters.

 

It's interesting that Bermuda would want someone else to pay for their pier upgrades. Most places that seek cruise ship travelers (and their investment into the economy) create and expand their own facilities realizing the long term benefit of the increased income potential.

 

Bermuda might have different issues, but an expanded pier would probably pay for itself rather quickly and certainly would benefit the economy as a whole.

[glen tev]

We were on the 4/23 sailing and had a cruise critics meeting with Jimmy(cruise director)and the other staff and this was 2 days before the Bermuda intinerarie was announced.This is what they told us.The big problem with a ship of the Dawns size is not the peir,it's water consumtion.The smaller ships such as the Crown,Majesty and even the Dream can get away with a 4 day stop.Any thing longer than 3 days and they have to pull the dawn out to make water and i believe they said this was mandated by the Bermuda gov't.The gov't at anytime can monitor there water consumtion and make them pull out and tender.According to Jimmy there is a lot of politics involved and hence the delays on the intineraries coming out while the home office hashed it out with the bermuda gov't.This is what we were told.From people i've talked to the one parked at Kings warf will be the more popular of the 2 cruises.

[fin]

It's interesting that Bermuda would want someone else to pay for their pier upgrades. Most places that seek cruise ship travelers (and their investment into the economy) create and expand their own facilities realizing the long term benefit of the increased income potential.

 

Bermuda might have different issues, but an expanded pier would probably pay for itself rather quickly and certainly would benefit the economy as a whole.

 

I think the Bermuda economy is in fine shape as is. Particularly compared to the US economy.

[electricron]

The big problem with a ship of the Dawns size is not the peir,it's water consumtion.The smaller ships such as the Crown, Majesty and even the Dream can get away with a 4 day stop. Any thing longer than 3 days and they have to pull the Dawn out to make water and i believe they said this was mandated by the Bermuda gov't. The gov't at anytime can monitor their water consumtion and make them pull out and tender. According to Jimmy there is a lot of politics involved and hence the delays on the intineraries coming out while the home office hashed it out with the bermuda gov't. This is what we were told. From people i've talked to the one parked at Kings warf will be the more popular of the 2 cruises.

 

The only reason the Dawn may be more popular is because it's a larger ship sailing from a larger city. Both the Majesty and Dream added together will have more passengers than the Dawn. So, St. George will have just as many passengers dropping in.

 

To discover the truth in that statement above, just add up the double occupancy numbers of the three ships

Majesty (1462) + Dream (1748) = 3210 passengers

Dawn (2224) = 2224 passengers

 

Majesty and Dream carry a total of almost 1,000 more passengers than the Dawn.

 

Yes, I agree politics is an issue with the number of ships stopping in Bermuda. The citizens, and therefore the Government, worry about too many tourists stretching and over taxing their basic resources and infrastructure. Transist, garbage wastes, water, and sewage can be over taxed. Fresh water is a particlular concern for Bermuda. Most of the natives have cisterns roofs to catch and store fresh water. Desalinating seawater isn't cheap. More financial resources besides just adding pier capacity is needed. And that's expensive, not just to build, but also to maintain. That's why Bermuda is looking for partners to help finance the expansion of pier capacity.

 

All the nations in the Caribbean are facing the similiar problems, how to expand basic infrastructure with more and more toursits arriving.

[glen tev]

The only reason the Dawn may be more popular is because it's a larger ship sailing from a larger city. Both the Majesty and Dream added together will have more passengers than the Dawn. So, St. George will have just as many passengers dropping in.

 

To discover the truth in that statement above, just add up the double occupancy numbers of the three ships

Majesty (1462) + Dream (1748) = 3210 passengers

Dawn (2224) = 2224 passengers

 

Majesty and Dream carry a total of almost 1,000 more passengers than the Dawn.

 

Yes, I agree politics is an issue with the number of ships stopping in Bermuda. The citizens, and therefore the Government, worry about too many tourists stretching and over taxing their basic resources and infrastructure. Transist, garbage wastes, water, and sewage can be over taxed. Fresh water is a particlular concern for Bermuda. Most of the natives have cisterns roofs to catch and store fresh water. Desalinating seawater isn't cheap. More financial resources besides just adding pier capacity is needed. And that's expensive, not just to build, but also to maintain. That's why Bermuda is looking for partners to help finance the expansion of pier capacity.

 

All the nations in the Caribbean are facing the similiar problems, how to expand basic infrastructure with more and more toursits arriving.

Exactly.This is pretty much it in a nutshell.I often wondered if the ship could even take in water and desalinize it while its at the peir.I would think they would get better water further out than water by the peir that has pollutants from other ships in it(gas,oil etc...)Either way we had a great time on the Dawn and are looking forward to this cruise.

[RichNY]

Hey Glen

The Dawn cannot draw water unless its underway.

 

Part of the problem is the total number of passengers in one place ...2 large ships at the Dockyard could place 4000 to 5000 passengers there. That would be a transportation nightmare. Many of the Bermudians count on the transportation system for their everyday needs, so the Government is not to anxious the accommodate the cruise ships needs. Also keep in mind that the cruise season is limited. With a 7 or 8 month season the Bermudians might not be to willing to make a major investment.

 

Here is a little something about Bermuda's relationship with cruise lines.

 

http://bermuda-online.org/cruises.htm