Getting Passport for Underaged Child when Ex-Spouse is being Uncooperative

[scissorgui]

Perhaps you need to just say to him that the passport processing system is really backed up, the passport process needs to be started soon in order for it to come in time, and I WOULDN'T WANT TO BE YOU if you wait so long that it doesn't get here in time and DD doesn't get to go (the latter part being directed at the ex, not you of course!)

My SO sent his application in Dec, but he didn't receive it until April 4 (20 days before our cruise). But that was also at the very begining of the onslot of passport applications. And also calling them every other day to find out where it was.

[forpaws]

Yes indeed. My counselor also called him a misogynist. When I first heard it I thought that term was very very harsh but, in retrospect, it is quite fitting.

 

Funny thing, I volunteer for a domestic violence and rape crisis hotline. You are 100% correct that those are characteristics of an emotionally abusive person. I didn't know it while I was married, but I am crystal clear now.

 

I like your suggestion about letting him know that I will not shield DD from the fact that she was unable to go because her father didn't sign the passport papers.

 

Here's another funny thing: I've been the primary financial auditor of a domestic violence and rape crisis organization for 14 years now.

 

And I've been involved with my share of emotional abusers - fortunately I never married any of them. And they all demonstrated differing levels of abuse...one was really bad..and he made the others look like child's play.

 

The really bad one was so bad that when we broke up after 2 years, my chemo-ridden mother had to come over at 11:30 p.m. and supervise him while he went through every space in my entire house to make sure all of his belongings had been returned to him. (She and my stepfather were afraid he would kill me if he came over and I was by myself with him--you know, one of those "accidental" falls down the stairs..) Anyway, he went through every drawer, the refrigerator, the pantry, the basement, even took a house he had built for my cat...even though he doesn't have a cat. ;) :rolleyes: He let my mother buy it back from him for $25 so the cat didn't lose his home! It had little shingles, a flap door, and a light bulb hooked up in it to provide the cat some heat in winter. Well worth $25. :D

 

It's easy to get into these situations because they are quite charming in the beginning, and they gradually turn off the charm...and turn everything around so that you begin to think everything's your own fault.

 

As far as your daughter, since you know he doesn't want to look bad to his kids, you're right, he will eventually sign. So now, I would turn the manipulation back on him, and just make the honest statement that you wouldn't want to be him if he causes her to miss it. He'll have one MAD kid on his hands, and a daughter at that. I definitely wouldn't want to be him!

 

Remember not to let him take your power by pushing your buttons. Try, at least. If you're like me, that's not easy. You feel wronged, treated unfairly, resentful, sorry for your daughter, etc. etc. And it's not easy to blow those feelings off.

[forpaws]

My SO sent his application in Dec, but he didn't receive it until April 4 (20 days before our cruise). But that was also at the very begining of the onslot of passport applications. And also calling them every other day to find out where it was.

 

From what I read, it's not getting any better either...I don't have passports for my niece or nephew, but am thinking about going ahead and getting them now, even though we have nothing planned.

 

That way, I'll have them just in case, plus I'll head off any price increases that are bound to come. Their passports will only be good for 5 years because of their age, but I think it would be worth it.

 

Plus, they would LOVE it.

[efan82]

I know that the passport paperwork says you have to have both parents present, but that is not what two post offices in my area did. My brother got passports for his kids, 5 and 7, without his ex there. She was OK with it, but just couldn't find time to be there or get anything notarized. Also, when we took my son, 13, (different post office) they said only one parent had to be there. My daughter, 17, could have got one without either parent.

[Lisichka]

most children will adjust to a divorce relatively easy (and I'm not saying that to imply that it IS easy, but just that the adjustment can go smoothly) if the parents learn to work together and not tear each other apart in front of the children.

 

Wrong. Divorce is NEVER easy on children. Not even in the best of circumstances. I am a strong children's advocate and as a psychologist do therapy with families and children on a daily basis. There are various levels of parental cooperation, yet I have to ever see a situation where a child had a 'relatively easy' time adjusting to their parent's divorce. It just doesn't happen.

[Lisichka]

You know, the sad thing about it is that what you are suggesting will ABSOLUTELY work. I used that tactic for several years after our divorce when I needed him to cooperate with me. Oh, the stories I could tell. But, I gave into his need to control me for 13 years of marriage. I gave up my education because he was insecure that I wouldn't want him if I got my degree. I gave up my friends because he felt they weren't good for me. I gave up my goals because they weren't in line with what he thought was best for me. I wore the clothes he wanted me to wear because he didn't want people seeing how attractive I really was. At this point, I just can't "give it up" anymore to appease his controlling, insecure and manipulative ways. I REFUSE to allow him to control me any longer!! I am not confused. I don't need his help. I know exactly what needs to be done. All I need is for him to bring his tired, controlling a$$ to the post office and sign a piece of paper!! lol If he doesn't want to do amicably, he can talk to my attorney!! The clock is ticking . . .

 

There is a difference between being a 'doormat' and allowing a man to walk over you, and manipulating him into thinking he has all the control.

 

The way I see it, he still is controlling you right now. He has you right where he wants you: angry and frustrated.

[dagadget]

Wrong. Divorce is NEVER easy on children. Not even in the best of circumstances. I am a strong children's advocate and as a psychologist do therapy with families and children on a daily basis. There are various levels of parental cooperation, yet I have to ever see a situation where a child had a 'relatively easy' time adjusting to their parent's divorce. It just doesn't happen.

 

 

Divorce is a bad thing for kids. I have watched in laws get divorces I have watched brother and sister get divorces and in ALL cases the kids were damaged and one parent or another ended up destitute and living in essentially a shack because of alimony and support payments. In my case the DW had a 9 month fling (relationship) with a 65 y/o man in 2000 and early 2001. I found out about it when she told me about it. I could have divorced her at that point but what would I have gotten for that? Lets see no house no money (2 sons still at home) Would have had to find a new place for me as well. Divorce is usually very bad on most all involved.........

[Moeve]

Does this guy not talk to his kids ?? I mean can't he see his child is excited and wants to go?? What p*** me off is that while dragging his heels to spite his wife the child is the one who may miss out on the vacation. It once again seems like he is soo busy with himself that the child has been forgotten!!!

[Esmerelda]

Wow..I wished I had some great advice for the OP. All I can say is tell the EX you will have your lawyer call him regarding the issue. As someone else stated, let him foot the bill for the lawyer since he is creating the situation. Being spiteful is an ugly thing. He is taking out his anger on his kids by not signing a simple form for you. Once again, its a control thing..been there done that.

 

As for the others, stating that divorce isn't easy on the kids...well...all I can say divorce isn't easy on the kids or adults. All situations are very different. I too was marred to a control freak...told I was fat (at 113 lbs), my job was stupid..etc. I watched my kids get hit by their father numerous times until a particular incident occurred which I will not detail out on here. I knew at that very second I would get out of my very sad 15 year marriage. My life was even threatened before it was all final. That was 7 years ago. Wow has my life changed for the better since then! I remarried 2 years ago to a man that my kids adore (and they call him dad on their own :) ) I now realize that the only reason I remained for so long was my kids. As they say, a leopard can't change his spots..gee is that statement true. Their father never did change. I can honestly say my kids are happier now than they have ever been. They still spend time with their dad but they see how he really is (on their own..no help from me). I just hate to hear people say that you should remain married for your kids? What a farce that is to me. I have absolutely no regrets...only wished I would have done it sooner. It has certainly made our lives better.

 

I am very fortunate though, I have sole custody of my boys so getting passports was no problem for me (well..we have applied for them).

 

please keep us posted and best of luck to you on the passports,

Esmerelda

[Lisichka]

I just hate to hear people say that you should remain married for your kids? What a farce that is to me. I have absolutely no regrets...only wished I would have done it sooner. It has certainly made our lives better.

Esmerelda

 

 

I sure hope you did not misinterpret my post to say that couples should stay together for their kids' sake. :confused:

[evolutiondob]

Wrong. Divorce is NEVER easy on children. Not even in the best of circumstances. I am a strong children's advocate and as a psychologist do therapy with families and children on a daily basis. There are various levels of parental cooperation, yet I have to ever see a situation where a child had a 'relatively easy' time adjusting to their parent's divorce. It just doesn't happen.

 

I agree with you which is why I put the statement that I wasn't trying to imply that it IS easy but that is can be SMOOTHER if the parents work together.

[nrdsb4]

I went in for counseling for several months before I left my marriage in order to get tips on how do leave without completely destroying my children. One of the things the counsel told me is that most children will adjust to a divorce relatively easy (and I'm not saying that to imply that it IS easy, but just that the adjustment can go smoothly) if the parents learn to work together and not tear each other apart in front of the children. Unfortunately, oftentimes there is one parent who doesn't take the breakup well and puts the kids through hell in order to get back at the other parent. It's just one of those things, you know? I try my hardest to do right, honestly, he's just an a$$. No matter how hard I try he just won't cooperate unless he's calling the shots.

 

 

Absolutely, it was obvious to me that you aren't getting the cooperation you need to make it work as smoothly as it could. You are taking the high road by not letting your child know how you feel about the situation. I'm sure at times you really have to bite your tongue hard. Kudos to you, it will pay off in the long run.

[evolutiondob]

This sounds like a wonderful idea. Almost like dealing with a child - don't tell them to get dressed in the morning - ask them if they want to wear the blue dress or the pink skirt - once they feel like they have a say in the matter it goes much better.

 

Good luck

 

Kathy

 

PS BTW, I got a passport for my dd 2 years ago without with her fathers permission - but then again, I am lucky, I didn't put his name on the birth cert - I wasn't married when she was born and when they asked me after the birth who the father was I said I didn't know. Of course at the post office they asked about a father and when I said I didn't know they said how is that possible. I said pick one - either i was drunk or went to a sperm bank - they issued it.

 

LOL - I think I would have issued the passport too.

[evolutiondob]

You couldn't have stated this any better, IMO! You sound like a great, loving, caring mom who has her daughter's best interests at heart.

 

DD is watching what dad does and is getting big enough to form her own opinions about him. Kids are soooo smart, and he's going to start harming the relationship with his kids from his own actions. You'll start seeing that shortly - I watched a cousin of mine totally alienate his two daughters because he absolutely would NOT stop making negative comments about their mother. Very sad, but he brought it on himself.

 

Asking DD to say that to him about going on the trip is involving her in the situation, which isn't fair.

 

I wish all divorced parents saw things like you see them.

 

 

Thank you. It's difficult sometimes - especially when you feel the other parent is making you look like a sap or weak in front of your children. But, before I respond to him I always think about how it will affect my children. As they become older, they'll understand that I am not weak but that I loved them and wanted to do what was best for them, even if it meant I had to suck up his insults and slurs sometimes.

[evolutiondob]

Here's another funny thing: I've been the primary financial auditor of a domestic violence and rape crisis organization for 14 years now.

 

And I've been involved with my share of emotional abusers - fortunately I never married any of them. And they all demonstrated differing levels of abuse...one was really bad..and he made the others look like child's play.

 

The really bad one was so bad that when we broke up after 2 years, my chemo-ridden mother had to come over at 11:30 p.m. and supervise him while he went through every space in my entire house to make sure all of his belongings had been returned to him. (She and my stepfather were afraid he would kill me if he came over and I was by myself with him--you know, one of those "accidental" falls down the stairs..) Anyway, he went through every drawer, the refrigerator, the pantry, the basement, even took a house he had built for my cat...even though he doesn't have a cat. ;) :rolleyes: He let my mother buy it back from him for $25 so the cat didn't lose his home! It had little shingles, a flap door, and a light bulb hooked up in it to provide the cat some heat in winter. Well worth $25. :D

 

It's easy to get into these situations because they are quite charming in the beginning, and they gradually turn off the charm...and turn everything around so that you begin to think everything's your own fault.

 

As far as your daughter, since you know he doesn't want to look bad to his kids, you're right, he will eventually sign. So now, I would turn the manipulation back on him, and just make the honest statement that you wouldn't want to be him if he causes her to miss it. He'll have one MAD kid on his hands, and a daughter at that. I definitely wouldn't want to be him!

 

Remember not to let him take your power by pushing your buttons. Try, at least. If you're like me, that's not easy. You feel wronged, treated unfairly, resentful, sorry for your daughter, etc. etc. And it's not easy to blow those feelings off.

 

Wow - small world. Isn't working/volunteering in the area of domestic violence rewarding? It can be frustrating sometimes when women feel they have to stay or continue to take the abuse, but when that one woman (and sometimes men too) decide to take that step and get away from the situation, the feeling is amazing that you've been able to help someone.

[evolutiondob]

There is a difference between being a 'doormat' and allowing a man to walk over you, and manipulating him into thinking he has all the control.

 

The way I see it, he still is controlling you right now. He has you right where he wants you: angry and frustrated.

 

You definitely have a point. Yesterday I was really angry and frustrated so he definitely had me where he wanted me. Today, I am better because I have decided that I am not going to allow him to continue pushing my buttons and making my jump through emotional hoops. I will get that passport - with or without his cooperation.

[evolutiondob]

Absolutely, it was obvious to me that you aren't getting the cooperation you need to make it work as smoothly as it could. You are taking the high road by not letting your child know how you feel about the situation. I'm sure at times you really have to bite your tongue hard. Kudos to you, it will pay off in the long run.

 

Thank you for your encouraging words. I'm a firm believer that it will pay off in the end. Light ALWAYS overcomes darkness.

[evolutiondob]

Wow..I wished I had some great advice for the OP. All I can say is tell the EX you will have your lawyer call him regarding the issue. As someone else stated, let him foot the bill for the lawyer since he is creating the situation. Being spiteful is an ugly thing. He is taking out his anger on his kids by not signing a simple form for you. Once again, its a control thing..been there done that.

 

As for the others, stating that divorce isn't easy on the kids...well...all I can say divorce isn't easy on the kids or adults. All situations are very different. I too was marred to a control freak...told I was fat (at 113 lbs), my job was stupid..etc. I watched my kids get hit by their father numerous times until a particular incident occurred which I will not detail out on here. I knew at that very second I would get out of my very sad 15 year marriage. My life was even threatened before it was all final. That was 7 years ago. Wow has my life changed for the better since then! I remarried 2 years ago to a man that my kids adore (and they call him dad on their own :) ) I now realize that the only reason I remained for so long was my kids. As they say, a leopard can't change his spots..gee is that statement true. Their father never did change. I can honestly say my kids are happier now than they have ever been. They still spend time with their dad but they see how he really is (on their own..no help from me). I just hate to hear people say that you should remain married for your kids? What a farce that is to me. I have absolutely no regrets...only wished I would have done it sooner. It has certainly made our lives better.

 

I am very fortunate though, I have sole custody of my boys so getting passports was no problem for me (well..we have applied for them).

 

please keep us posted and best of luck to you on the passports,

Esmerelda

 

Esmerelda,

 

You're a very strong woman to have the courage to leave a situation that was toxic for both you and your children. It's never easy, is it? There is always a price to pay when making a life altering decision. But, as you said, it's never a good idea to stay in a negative situation just for the kids sake - especially if it's an abusive one. I'm sure it was very difficult for you but the good thing is that you all are happier and healthier now. I'm sure in retrospect you're glad you did it. Good for you!!

[forpaws]

I sure hope you did not misinterpret my post to say that couples should stay together for their kids' sake. :confused:

 

I didn't interpret ANY of your posts to say that, FWIW! ;)

 

Speaking of fat, my most recent former b/f told me on Christmas night that he would be more attracted to me if I would lose some weight...astounded that he was actually ignorant enough to say that to a female...I asked him just how much he thought I needed to lose? He said, "3 pounds." He wasn't joking.

 

I couldn't believe my ears. I weighed about 115 pounds at the time, 5'3", and he had the nerve to tell me first, that I needed to lose weight to be more ATTRACTED to me, and second, 3 pounds??

 

I (with as much tone as I could MUSTER) said, "You couldn't even tell I'd lost 3 pounds...that's not even a dress size." He said "Yes I could."

 

World War III finally ended about an hour later, but things were never the same after that, on so many levels. I fought anorexia on a daily basis as a teen..didn't break 100 pounds until I was in my early 30's, and still feel horribly overweight at 115 lbs. Saying that to someone with an anorexic background is incredibly stupid, dangerous and insensitive.

[forpaws]

Wow - small world. Isn't working/volunteering in the area of domestic violence rewarding? It can be frustrating sometimes when women feel they have to stay or continue to take the abuse, but when that one woman (and sometimes men too) decide to take that step and get away from the situation, the feeling is amazing that you've been able to help someone.

 

It's even more frustrating when you think they've pulled away from the situation...they're settled, etc., then they turn around and go BACK!

 

We've had a couple of situations in our area that have ended badly...one woman was beaten, raped and eventually shot by her b/f. That was after getting a restraining order, etc., then she went back. No kids involved, not married to the man, but she still went back, and lost her life in the process.

 

Esmerelda,

 

You're a very strong woman to have the courage to leave a situation that was toxic for both you and your children. It's never easy, is it? There is always a price to pay when making a life altering decision. But, as you said, it's never a good idea to stay in a negative situation just for the kids sake - especially if it's an abusive one. I'm sure it was very difficult for you but the good thing is that you all are happier and healthier now. I'm sure in retrospect you're glad you did it. Good for you!!

 

We all know that kids learn how to deal with future relationships by watching their parents. If all they see is a miserable marriage, I don't believe they grow up knowing how to handle a future marriage, how to treat a spouse, etc.

 

If a marriage can't be bettered and if the kids see Mom and Dad apart, happy, and dealing with each other with respect...and when Mom and Dad move on to other relationships and are able to relate to the new person in a loving, caring manner, they learn so much on how to handle things later. Much better, IMO, than Mom and Dad staying together for 20 years, with nothing but fighting, backbiting, or just not talking at all.

 

And with girls especially, if they see Mom able to stand on her own, they learn that they too can take care of themselves and don't have to depend on a man.

 

I'm also a firm believer in not introducing kids to new "relationships" unless you've progressed to the point that you honestly think the person's going to be around for a long time to come. I think it jerks their emotions around too much to be introduced to dad's new girlfriend, invest time in her and maybe decide they like her, then the relationship ends and the kid has yet another loss to deal with. JMHO! ;)

[crisndeefromde]

Even though he will eventually sign the passport thing, you will still need a notarized letter from him if you do not have papers showing sole custody not joint custody or custodial parent to take the minor out of the US. My ta told me to have this to take my niece who is 16 and will be 17 on the cruise next year. Homeland security is involved with this now. No one may ever ask but if you have an emergency on one of the islands, the govt agents WILL ask for this proof..which will be in the safe on your ship. lol

[evolutiondob]

It's even more frustrating when you think they've pulled away from the situation...they're settled, etc., then they turn around and go BACK!

 

We've had a couple of situations in our area that have ended badly...one woman was beaten, raped and eventually shot by her b/f. That was after getting a restraining order, etc., then she went back. No kids involved, not married to the man, but she still went back, and lost her life in the process.

 

 

 

We all know that kids learn how to deal with future relationships by watching their parents. If all they see is a miserable marriage, I don't believe they grow up knowing how to handle a future marriage, how to treat a spouse, etc.

 

If a marriage can't be bettered and if the kids see Mom and Dad apart, happy, and dealing with each other with respect...and when Mom and Dad move on to other relationships and are able to relate to the new person in a loving, caring manner, they learn so much on how to handle things later. Much better, IMO, than Mom and Dad staying together for 20 years, with nothing but fighting, backbiting, or just not talking at all.

 

And with girls especially, if they see Mom able to stand on her own, they learn that they too can take care of themselves and don't have to depend on a man.

 

I'm also a firm believer in not introducing kids to new "relationships" unless you've progressed to the point that you honestly think the person's going to be around for a long time to come. I think it jerks their emotions around too much to be introduced to dad's new girlfriend, invest time in her and maybe decide they like her, then the relationship ends and the kid has yet another loss to deal with. JMHO! ;)

 

Let the church say AMEN again!! Since my ex and I have joint 50/50 custody, I have plenty of free time to date and see people. However, I have not brought anyone around my children in the 8 years I've been divorced because I have not met anyone that I feel would be a long time partner. So, why bother, you know? The way things look, I probably won't get serious about anyone until after the kids are out of the house and in college. HEck, after all of those years of marriage I am in no rush to do it again. I rather enjoy my freedom. It's been a wonderful time for me and I enjoy being single.

[forpaws]

Even though he will eventually sign the passport thing, you will still need a notarized letter from him if you do not have papers showing sole custody not joint custody or custodial parent to take the minor out of the US. My ta told me to have this to take my niece who is 16 and will be 17 on the cruise next year. Homeland security is involved with this now. No one may ever ask but if you have an emergency on one of the islands, the govt agents WILL ask for this proof..which will be in the safe on your ship. lol

 

I had to laugh on the highlighted part of your post, because that's exactly what happened to us when we were at Coco Cay, and my nephew wanted to do the waverunner excursion, and for the first and only time, someone asked to see the permission slip! And it was in the safe, back on the ship. :p

[evolutiondob]

I so much appreciate all of your support, encouraging words, suggestions and well wishes in this situation. I think all of your positive vibes have paid off. I just received an e-mail from the ex which stated that he will make himself available on Saturday, May 26 to meet with me at the post office to sign the passport papers!!

 

Thanks again for all of you helping me through yesterday - I really gained strength from you wonderful people!!:D

[forpaws]

I so much appreciate all of your support, encouraging words, suggestions and well wishes in this situation. I think all of your positive vibes have paid off. I just received an e-mail from the ex which stated that he will make himself available on Saturday, May 26 to meet with me at the post office to sign the passport papers!!

 

Thanks again for all of you helping me through yesterday - I really gained strength from you wonderful people!!:D

 

That's great news - unbelievable that he has to work into his "schedule" 10 days in advance what will amount to a 15 minute process...but that's okay. At least he's getting it done.