Suggest you read about Dan Hanrahan

[cabin1018B]

This book is only 6.99 right now at amazon.com, and worth every penny for a cruiser. Its not a pretty picture at all.

 

Devils on the Deep Blue Sea : The Dreams, Schemes and Showdowns That Built America's Cruise-Ship Empires [bARGAIN PRICE] (Hardcover) by Kristoffer Garin. I have NO relation to amazon or the author.

 

Why read it? A fascinating history of the births of Carnival and RCCL. Carnival may be many things, but Ariston has proven quite adept at buying lines and supporting their uniqueness.

 

Sadly, RCCL's Hanrahan comes across as an empty suit, a bottom-line oriented CEO with little regard for his product's quality. The history of the Chandris acquisition brings tears to your eyes. And his miss steps in the purchase of Princess, well, sure does say something.

 

The Zenith (huh, wonder where she went) Restaurant Manager last year told me they had sessions with corporate types telling them to limit the number of olives in drinks, veggies on the plate, that sort of thing. Dan, you can't just market quality, you have to perform.

 

This book has taught me two things: I now understand how the comically inept startup of Azamara came about. And, I fear for our Celebrity - we all know the quality is declining, and after reading this I doubt the line we knew will be around for long.

 

I hope RCCL's management of Celebrity going forward proves me wrong.

 

 

[Ephraim]

It's an older book with a good look at the birth of the industry. That said, there are many books about the industry, including books Selling the Sea which was co-written by Bob Dickinson.

 

There is also a matter of point of view. While Ted Arison was extremely cunning, the book seems to let him off the hook for the theft of the NCL float.

 

The book does discuss the fact that RCL was born out of the idea of ship design. And having been on two different RCL ships, I certainly do agree that from a design standpoint they do have an upper hand.

 

The book discusses some of the economics of change, but not all of them. For example, HAL used to be a no-tipping line and today they charge you separately for tips. It also doesn't have very much of a discussion along the lines of the economics of catering (if I remember the book correctly.) Most cruise lines in the mass-market range spend about $10 a day to feed you. That doesn't speak for quality of food at all. You can't use quality products and dish out enormous quantities of food on a budget. But that's part of the restaurant business and you just have to know how to manage it. But if you were expecting to be served organic produce, food without the usage of high-fructose corn syrup or even stone ground wheat, you are on the wrong type of ship or with the wrong kind of expectations.

 

Don't think an olive here and there can add up? In 2000, Southwest had the vendor remove 3 peanuts from each bag of honey-roasted peanuts. The savings added up to $300,000. In fact because the cost of the honey-roasted nuts were higher than the regular roasted, Southwest stopped serving them, until the vendor found a way (this year) to reduce the cost.

 

Cruise lines have a responsibility to the shareholder as well as to the traveller. And that means that they need to balance between your extra olive and an extra dividend of 1c per share. Or they can increase prices, but everyone doesn't want them to do that. So, you gotta give somewhere. For example, RCL and NCL save enormous amounts of money by providing soap and shampoo in dispensers. It's not the cost of the soap or the shampoo, it's the cost of handling the waste. Everything on the ship has a cost associated with it, even the amount of trash being produced, the TV shows on the TV and the music being played.

[emcee207]

minutia (LOL, I know that's not right) and attention to detail paid by large corporations to help the bottom line. Always caught between admiration and disgust in this area.

 

More interestingly, was the comment about the mishandling of the "Azamara" thing. I knew there was something bothering me about this whole thing and I guess cabin's post finally woke me up. It WAS inept at best. What a joke! I am wondering about the quality of upper management of Celebrity/RCCL

[MoreCruisesNow]

A few points to correct some obvious misperceptions:

 

1) The book came out before Dan Hanrahan became president of Celebrity.

 

2) The Chandris family, while having a glorious nautical tradition, was losing money with Celebrity and the brand would probably not even exist today had it not been bought by Royal Caribbean.

 

3) One man's fewer olives in a martini is another man's good management, and change is the only constant in life and in business.

 

4) No matter how much we love the line, Celebrity belongs not to its passengers but to its shareholders (often, I'll agree, one in the same) and making a profit is really the whole point of the enterprise.

[okbowler]

I know I'm spittin into the wind. I realize most everything on a cruise is subjective. But I miss the little things that made a particular cruise line memorable. It may have been free ice cream or expresso, or a cheap glass of wine when boarding or any number of things that made the line or ship stand out in your memory. Any more it seems that I have to look at the name on the bow of the ship to realize what ship I'm on. Don't misunderstand, I still enjoy cruising but since we cruise mostly to the Carib. ports of call are not terribly important, so we decide how many days we want to cruise and then hunt for the cheapest price. The mass market cruise lines are more alike than different. I realize that a CEO , in order to keep his job , needs to maximize profits but pride of the product used to mean something, and I believe it has fallen victim to the almighty dollar. We recently took a cruise on a line that has done away with the wine waiter in the dining room,no big deal , but now the asst. waiter does this job.If he has a lot of wine drinkers he is too busy to help the waiter. Did it ruin our cruise, no way , but we noticed it. imho Bill:(

[Captain Jake]

why in the world would anyone think the handling of Azamara was inept? The way the cruises are selling and the positive effect it will have on the stock is anything but inept.Bravo on the move-BT

[DC2OC]

Azamara was a fantastic move.Smaller ships,smoke-free cabin.The only problem is they are selling so well that it will be hard to find a bargain.Oh well,at least I'm a stockholder......................Frank:)

[florisdekort]

A few points to correct some obvious misperceptions:

 

1) The book came out before Dan Hanrahan became president of Celebrity.

 

2) The Chandris family, while having a glorious nautical tradition, was losing money with Celebrity and the brand would probably not even exist today had it not been bought by Royal Caribbean.

 

3) One man's fewer olives in a martini is another man's good management, and change is the only constant in life and in business.

 

4) No matter how much we love the line, Celebrity belongs not to its passengers but to its shareholders (often, I'll agree, one in the same) and making a profit is really the whole point of the enterprise.

 

Amen. This book is, just like any book, just one person's point of view. Not everything you read needs to be true, and even if it is, you constantly have to wonder on 'which facts were deliberatly left out'. Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911 was a good example of the power of leaving facts out.

 

Floris

[chessbriar]

It also wasn't a last minute decision. I received my annual report which are set and printed well in advance. They mention the creation of the new line, but did not have a name yet.

[emcee207]

I think the point was the roll out was inept, not at all the long term prospects of sucess for both RCCL and it's customers. I think it was/is a great idea, we've been looking seriously at Oceania as an option.

[amazing]

I think, the point made is clear. As passenger from X and as Elite member I can only agree that the product has gone done year after year. It’s in small details, but every time there’s something extra that has disappeared or decreased.

For example the Suite perks:

The promised “fresh cut flowers” for the suite were only a twig. On my last Century cruise there weren’t any at all. The Hotel manger told me they do not supply those anymore in suites (despite it is still advertised on the Celebrity website)

The promised “champagne” is a cheap sparkling wine (even own brand)

The promised leather key holder is only for 1 passenger now (was 1 each previously)

The promised Frette bathrobes have been changed into ordinary bathrobes

The promised Duvet is a cheap 100% synthetic blanket

And this only the decrease for suite perks.

The overall feeling I get is one of saving as much money as possible, so I can only agree. I think Celebrity will remain, but at the end will be a second RCCL with Azamara taking over the current Celebrity “promise”

[MoreCruisesNow]

As a frequent Celebrity AND Royal Caribbean customer, I must say that the Celebrity promise does not live in key fobs and Frette bathrobes.

 

There is a decided difference between a Celebrity sailing and a Royal Caribbean sailing that has much more to do with the attitude on the ships than with "things."

 

Having said that, my wife and I enjoy both, as I expect we'll enjoy the Azamara experience, which again will be more a matter of attitude than specific physical differences.

 

Sometimes I spontaneously break into song, and "Love is where you find it" is one of my favorites. On our last Celebrity sailing, my wife and I were walking down the hall and I broke into "Besame, besame mucho..." and the gentleman we were passing did a beautiful job on the second line of the song.

 

THAT is the Celebrity promise!

:)

[amazing]

As a frequent Celebrity AND Royal Caribbean customer, I must say that the Celebrity promise does not live in key fobs and Frette bathrobes.

 

There is a decided difference between a Celebrity sailing and a Royal Caribbean sailing that has much more to do with the attitude on the ships than with "things."

 

Having said that, my wife and I enjoy both, as I expect we'll enjoy the Azamara experience, which again will be more a matter of attitude than specific physical differences.

 

Sometimes I spontaneously break into song, and "Love is where you find it" is one of my favorites. On our last Celebrity sailing, my wife and I were walking down the hall and I broke into "Besame, besame mucho..." and the gentleman we were passing did a beautiful job on the second line of the song.

 

THAT is the Celebrity promise!

:)

 

It's indeed not about bathrobes and keyholders. It's about cutting the costs where ever they can. And I just wanted to example a few things that clearly state the decrease. Whether RCCL or X.....they're the same at the end. It's about cutting costs on olives, flowers, champagne, food, and all you can think of. And as long as we're accepting this, they will continue there decrease.

 

It all sounds small.....but 1 keyholder instead of 2, saves an average of let's say 40 per cruise. Times 10 ships is 400. Times let's say 30 cruises per ship per year.........is 12000 keyholders per year.

 

Don't even consider counting the amount of olives saved by this attitude (Hanrahan did it for you ;))

[MoreCruisesNow]

Given that all you say is true, Amazing.

 

The point really is that if Celebrity tried to charge the price necessary to provide the leather key fobs to both passengers, for instance, all we would read here is how dare they raise the price on my cruise line!!!

 

There is no such thing as a free lunch - even on a cruise when the food is "free."

 

To provide the best possible product at the best possible price is a difficult game for any business to play, and I for one think that both Celebrity and Royal Caribbean do a better job than most.

[amazing]

Morecruisenow,

 

You're totally right ! But than don't advertise with the perks ! When you promise Frette robes I expect them. The same goes for key holders, champagne, etc.

 

Fact is that they only trying to see how far they can go without the passengers having complaints.

 

And whether X and RCCL do a better job than others, depends on whom you compare to ! But in the same price range....yes they absolutely do. But does this mean we have to accept the decreases ?

[C 2 C]

leaving facts out.

 

I know what I know. Don't confuse me with THE facts.

 

There are no FACTS. There is no reality. We determine interpretations of facts by personal agendas and the color of our lenses.

People on the the same cruise have totally different experiences based on the random sampling of atoms around them. It does not matter what the subject matter is but we all interpret them (willingly) according to our own agendas.

 

Everyone leaves the facts out when they conflict with their own perceptions. Otherwise how could we ever have disagreements or arguments?

Did you ever hear about the war caused by weapons of mass instruction....;)

[MoreCruisesNow]

I will happily admit to being a poor man who happily cruises in just an outside stateroom, but I am familiar with what used to be Suite Indulgences.

 

However, I just visited the Celebrity website and checked and use of "bathrobes" is specified, not Frette bathrobes; there is no mention of key fobs; "champagne" is specified, and I will agree that legally only that sparkling wine produced in a certain area in France can be called "champagne," but I've tasted some mighty poor legal "champagne" and some mighty good illegal California "champagne."

 

I honestly don't believe Celebrity (or most major companies) would intentionally misrepresent their offers (there are laws against that) - on the other hand, I also don't believe any company goes out of its way to advise potential customers of their specific cost-cutting measures.

[amazing]

I will happily admit to being a poor man who happily cruises in just an outside stateroom, but I am familiar with what used to be Suite Indulgences.

 

However, I just visited the Celebrity website and checked and use of "bathrobes" is specified, not Frette bathrobes; there is no mention of key fobs; "champagne" is specified, and I will agree that legally only that sparkling wine produced in a certain area in France can be called "champagne," but I've tasted some mighty poor legal "champagne" and some mighty good illegal California "champagne."

 

I honestly don't believe Celebrity (or most major companies) would intentionally misrepresent their offers (there are laws against that) - on the other hand, I also don't believe any company goes out of its way to advise potential customers of their specific cost-cutting measures.

 

Taken from the Celebrity website:

 

Celebrity's Butler Service on Century

Celebrity's suites include European butler service, a Celebrity exclusive.

This service includes:

 

 

• Welcome champagne
  
• Daily fruit selection
  
• Fresh-cut flowers
  
• Daily hors d'oeuvres
  
• Menu of pillows - Conformance, Body, Goose, and Isotonic®
  
• Duvets and pillow-top mattresses
  
• Leather key holder, personalized stationery and tote bag
  
• Double-thick Frette bathrobes
  
• Complimentary espresso & cappuccino

[MoreCruisesNow]

I stand corrected, at least as far as the Century is concerned. Oddly enough, I find my information confirmed on the other ships in the fleet.

 

So...if you didn't get a Frette bathrobe in a suite on the Century, then I'd say you have every right to feel that they misrepresented.

[Host Kewlguy]

 

There is no such thing as a free lunch - even on a cruise when the food is "free."

 

The food is not free. We pay for it as part of our cruise fare.

[amazing]

I stand corrected, at least as far as the Century is concerned. Oddly enough, I find my information confirmed on the other ships in the fleet.

 

So...if you didn't get a Frette bathrobe in a suite on the Century, then I'd say you have every right to feel that they misrepresented.

 

But I think this is beyond the topic. Fact is that X is decreasing it's product. And as long as we accept this, they will conitnue doing so :mad:

[Host Kewlguy]

It's indeed not about bathrobes and keyholders. It's about cutting the costs where ever they can. And I just wanted to example a few things that clearly state the decrease. Whether RCCL or X.....they're the same at the end. It's about cutting costs on olives, flowers, champagne, food, and all you can think of. And as long as we're accepting this, they will continue there decrease.

 

It all sounds small.....but 1 keyholder instead of 2, saves an average of let's say 40 per cruise. Times 10 ships is 400. Times let's say 30 cruises per ship per year.........is 12000 keyholders per year.

 

Don't even consider counting the amount of olives saved by this attitude (Hanrahan did it for you ;))

 

It's not just RCCL and X. Every major cruise line are cutting costs.

[natesfirewife]

Should we also point out that the price of gas has gone up making everything they buy more expensive? And in the future it's only going to get worse because the farmers who grow the corn are selling alot more to be used for gas, which will make the price go up for everything that is made with corn? Supply and Demand.

 

I do agree that everyone sees things differently. My sister and I went on the same sailing a couple of years ago. Where she had a horrible time, I had a great time. It's all in your attitude and I could do without an extra olive or keychain to help keep the prices where they are.

[mrjim]

Hi all,

 

I've read the book. Very interesting, but Dan Hanrahan isn't even mentioned once. Only RCCL's CEO Richard Fain is mentioned. According to the book he's not a very talented manager.

 

Joachim

[hajekfam]

Hi all,

 

I've read the book. Very interesting, but Dan Hanrahan isn't even mentioned once. Only RCCL's CEO Richard Fain is mentioned. According to the book he's not a very talented manager.

 

Joachim

Thanks Joachim for mentioning this. I too was confused by the OP's post.

I read the book when it came out and after reading the OP's post, I tried to remember if Dan Hanrahan was mentioned. I just finished rereading it and did not find any mention of him. What was the original poster referring to when he said?:

Sadly, RCCL's Hanrahan comes across as an empty suit, a bottom-line oriented CEO with little regard for his product's quality. The history of the Chandris acquisition brings tears to your eyes. And his miss steps in the purchase of Princess, well, sure does say something.

The only people mentioned were Richard Fain as you said, and Jack Williams who according to the book did everything in his power to get rid of Celebrity execs.