Maasdam 1/5/08 -- Ship Chartered !!

[twinkletoes4445]

 

That's why I prefer to wait until final payment to book airline tickets and hotel ... because I know that after final payment, the only way I am going cancel that cruise is if it is for an insurance-covered reason ... and then those other items would be reimbursed to me too.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

I also meant to mention that with cruising, the biggest risk with purchasing your air and hotel too early is that the cruiseline might cancel your cruise! The benefit to waiting to make your arrangements after you make your final payment is that there's probably not a chance that HAL (or any cruiseline) will boot you off because they chartered the ship.

 

This does seem to be something unique to cruising. Selling to people, then later on chartering the ship. Never in all our years of traveling have we been booted from a hotel, condo or private home because a charter came along and took over the place.

 

After reading several threads concerning this issue, I am not sure I'd book a cruise too far in advance (and never in a million years would I book one while I was on a cruise) anyway. I'd wait...groups have to have time to sell out the ship, so I'd probably not book anything more than 3 or 4 months out knowing what I know now about charters.

 

But the great thing is...I have so many choices. It's not like cruising is our only vacation option. :)

[hammybee]

For Bear to be losing $500 on this is plain and simple wrong IMO

For those who think I never have a negative thing to say about HAL, please take note of this post. ;)

 

Complete agreement on this end. Being dissappointed is one thing. Loosing out of pocket, is another.

 

What we will never know with any certainty, is the process a cruise line uses to communicate with travel agencies and then agency to each agent, that a cruise has been chartered.

 

I do believe a large part of the problem lies with communication within travel agency, especially the giant online booking engines. I have seen such engines remove a charter from its listing of available cruises but the individual agents may not be aware of this or not paying attention. This business has more than its fair share of part timers in it, who are not on the ball. They make it all that more challenging for the minority of agents who live and breath cruise sales, as a full time profession.

 

It's too easy for a travel agent to blame the cruise line for failure to communicate. It's certainly easier than telling a client that the ball was dropped by the client's agency or agent.

 

I am sorry, I am not buying that cruise lines consistently fail to timely inform their travel agencies when one of their ships has been chartered. The problems are often internal to the travel agencies or in some cases, the agents themselves.

[hammybee]

We had no choice but to book our hotels and air in advance for our last cruise, it was during Super Bowl. But we would have done it anyway. To me, I'd rather have all the bases covered. We don't go into booking a cruise thinking we might have to cancel, so there's no reason for us to wait until the final deposit is due. And even then, you're what...still a good 70 days out from your cruise. A lot can happen in those 70 days. At least we know we have out flight and hotel covered.

 

Like Krazy Kruisers...we book exactly what we want in advance.

 

I think one is reasonably safe booking air 5-6 months into the future when booked on a domestic sail. The company that chartered the cruise needs plenty of lead time to sell the cruise out or they risk not being able to operate the charter at a profit.

 

Exceptions would include cruises cancelled for mechanical, virus or weather ralated reasons as well as a once in a lifetime thing, like Carnival chartering 3 of its ships to FEMA to house those suddenly homeless, as happened with Katrina.

[twinkletoes4445]

I think one is reasonably safe booking air 5-6 months into the future when booked on a domestic sail. The company that chartered the cruise needs plenty of lead time to sell the cruise out or they risk not being able to operate the charter at a profit.

 

Exceptions would include cruises cancelled for mechanical, virus or weather ralated reasons as well as a once in a lifetime thing, like Carnival chartering 3 of its ships to FEMA to house those suddenly homeless, as happened with Katrina.

 

You're probably right about 5-6 month booking in advance for air and hotel. I am trying to remember what the time frame was for Shounf's trip...but it seems like we booked in March (for the following Feb), and if I remember correctly, it was in April or so when she found out about the cancellation of her cruise. So this probably happened a good 9 months in advance. So if you do book a cruise 5-6 months out, chances are, things will be fine. Of course there are things that can crop up that they have no control over (the things you mentioned).

 

For the most part, we don't book vacations that far in advance. We only do this with cruising because we want a particular cabin. The condo we rent in Grand Cayman is owned by somone. They have to provide the rental company with the days they will be using their property 6 months in advance, so we wait for that to happen prior to picking a week.

 

Knowing what I know now about charters, I'd probably not book 9 months in advance. I'd probably wait until 6 months or so in advance and then book. The chances of that date becoming a charter, are probably pretty slim. Like you said, the people that charter the ships have to have a certain amount of time to sell all the cabins.

 

And since 90% of our business is done in the southern Florida area, even if we are bumped from a cruise, we can still use the tickets for business. And if we have to cancel our cruise for business emergency, our airline tickets and hotels are right we need them to be. This is situation that very few other cruisers are in...but we are...and it's really a good thing for us.

[Roz]

Bear,

 

Sorry to hear about this. I've had the experience of booking a HAL cruise and then being notified that it was chartered.

 

If you read the other cruise line boards here at CC, you'll see that this happens on other lines as well, so not going with HAL doesn't really guarantee you anything.

 

The Crystal board had their boxers bunched up over a bridge group that's booked hundreds of passenger on several itineraries.

 

Roz

[twinkletoes4445]

The Crystal board had their boxers bunched up over a bridge group that's booked hundreds of passenger on several itineraries.

 

And Crystal said (in a letter the one of the posters), that they'd address this, and make changes so that no one group will have exclusive use of any particular area. At least Crystal sees this as a problem to the individual cruisers. HAL's letter to the cruisers who complained about the same thing was a bit different..HAL didn't even get the facts right, much less try and resolve this issue to try and at least make adjustments so everyone could enjoy the Crow's Nest...if not everyday, at least part of the time.

 

It will be interesting to see if Crystal actually follows through and does what the letter indicated. Time will tell. If they don't, you can bet there'll be people posting about this on the Crystal board. Crystal may just have been trying to make everyone happy and have no intention of resolving this issue.

[dcsam]

My mother was on a HAL cruise this past February. She gets on to find out it's a jazz cruise! Well... she ended up enjoying it (until she had to be medically evacuated in Mazatlan). The only part she hated was that she could not go to the Crows Nest on many occassions because it was for the jazz guests only. This would have ticked me off too.

I've always been a fan of the smaller ships too. However, I just experienced my first 'mega ship' cruise last week. I loved it. It was the Golden Princess. I'm not a fan of large crowds, but I found the ship absorbs the crowds very nicely. I loved the 'swim against the jets' pool - rarely crowded and often had it to myself. The aft pool was adults only. I never saw anybody in it. I just stayed clear of the two mid-ship pools. Enjoy!

Caroline

[arabrab]

We're looking at an early January 7 day cruise, and unfortunately we're not looking very hard at HAL because of the history of chartering out these cruises. Many folks do need to get vacation time approved far ahead, and once you do book airfare it isn't easily changed. There's always some element of risk that a cruise vacation can be cancelled -- weather, mechanical malfunction, noro, but having the supplier play games with whether or not the ship is going to be chartered shouldn't be one of them. This is the effective equivalent of bumping on a plane, but right now the cruiselines don't have to pay any real penalties for doing so.

 

Their boat, their rules, but their loss when they find more potential customers and travel agents reluctant to book six to twelve months out.

[twinkletoes4445]

We're looking at an early January 7 day cruise, and unfortunately we're not looking very hard at HAL because of the history of chartering out these cruises. Many folks do need to get vacation time approved far ahead, and once you do book airfare it isn't easily changed. There's always some element of risk that a cruise vacation can be cancelled -- weather, mechanical malfunction, noro, but having the supplier play games with whether or not the ship is going to be chartered shouldn't be one of them. This is the effective equivalent of bumping on a plane, but right now the cruiselines don't have to pay any real penalties for doing so.

 

Their boat, their rules, but their loss when they find more potential customers and travel agents reluctant to book six to twelve months out.

 

They do seem to do a lot of chartering in Jan & Feb. We'd thought about doing the Zuiderdam next Feb., and as I started to "google" for charters, I found all sorts of info.

 

I suppose the thing to do is wait until it's closer to the sailing time to book a cruise, but like you said, a lot of people have to pick their vacation dates a long time in advance. When we first were married, I worked for a company that required us to pick one year in advance. And once we picked our dates, that was that. There was no wiggle room.

 

And we've never had a problem with getting bumped on any of our vacations...so for us, it was something we'd not ever encountered until we started reading about how this happens on cruise lines.

 

But now I know, so we can make a decision based on this information.

[twinkletoes4445]

My mother was on a HAL cruise this past February. She gets on to find out it's a jazz cruise! Well... she ended up enjoying it (until she had to be medically evacuated in Mazatlan). The only part she hated was that she could not go to the Crows Nest on many occassions because it was for the jazz guests only. This would have ticked me off too.

I've always been a fan of the smaller ships too. However, I just experienced my first 'mega ship' cruise last week. I loved it. It was the Golden Princess. I'm not a fan of large crowds, but I found the ship absorbs the crowds very nicely. I loved the 'swim against the jets' pool - rarely crowded and often had it to myself. The aft pool was adults only. I never saw anybody in it. I just stayed clear of the two mid-ship pools. Enjoy!

Caroline

 

The Crow's Nest thing is an issue. I just wish they'd try and balance it out a bit, so everyone can have access to it at least some of the time. It won't surprise me a bit if we don't see more posts concerning this issue. Knowing how they cater to groups, does come into play while planning our next vacation.

 

I have a friend that loves Princess. She's tried them all, and swears by them. I did run this by her (about the blocking off of certain prime public areas), and she's never encountered such a thing on Princess. Now I don't know if she's just been lucky and not been on a cruise that did this, or if Princess doesn't do this sort of thing. The jet pool sounds like it would be really nice.

 

I hope everything is okay with your mom.

[hammybee]

It will be interesting to see if Crystal actually follows through and does what the letter indicated. Time will tell. If they don't, you can bet there'll be people posting about this on the Crystal board. Crystal may just have been trying to make everyone happy and have no intention of resolving this issue.

 

The latest from Crystal land is that Crystal has stated it will not allow groups larger than 250 to book space. What they did not say is that this size is about 25% of capcity which is still a large group relative to the size of Crystal's ships. This would be the equivelent of 500 on a VISTA class ship.

 

Crystal has also said they will not allow a group to use the Stardust Lounge which seems to be the equivelent of the CN's, without the panoramic view.

 

I think Crystal's price point makes it highly dependent upon loyal cruisers, more so than HAL or Princess who can and do appeal to many first time cruisers or those looking for something different than Carnival and RCL but not necessarily at a greater price.

 

At the moment, HAL seems to be the darling of the group sail business and so long as this continues, they do not need to rely as heavily on individual passenger loyalty.

 

I know you had a great time on the Zuiderdam and keep hoping you will try Crystal and come back and tell us all about it.

[twinkletoes4445]

 

I think Crystal's price point makes it highly dependent upon loyal cruisers, more so than HAL or Princess who can and do appeal to many first time cruisers or those looking for something different than Carnival and RCL but not necessarily at a greater price.

 

At the moment, HAL seems to be the darling of the group sail business and so long as this continues, they do not need to rely as heavily on individual passenger loyalty.

 

I know you had a great time on the Zuiderdam and keep hoping you will try Crystal and come back and tell us all about it.

 

We've thought about Crystal...but we're concerned about the size of the ship...hubby doesn't want to be on a smaller ship...and we were worried that it might be more formal than we want our cruise to be.

 

And you're right...HAL has made group and charters their main focus. And they certainly can choose to do whatever they want...because there are other options out there for us.

 

But we may end up trying Crystal since they seem to still care about their individual passengers needs. It may cost more...and I guess we'll have to decide if the additonal cost is worth it, or take a chance and possibly have to deal with large groups and blocked-off areas on HAL.

 

I wonder what the actual statistics are on this sort of thing happening on HAL? Does it happen on 1% of the cruises...10% or what?

[Vacationschedule]

I think depending on the amount of notice given time wise should dictate the amount of compensation given to passengers booked on a board a charter. I does stink when the cruise lines do this and they need to be a little more active in giving out the information when this happens.

[hammybee]

I wonder what the actual statistics are on this sort of thing happening on HAL? Does it happen on 1% of the cruises...10% or what?

 

The only one who would know for sure is HAL.

 

I have never experienced being shut out of the CN nor have the overwhelming number of frequent posters on this board and I have been around on and off for too many years. I think Sail, with 55 +/- HAL cruises, has experienced being shut out, once. The Parkwest thing , we have been told, happens about 3x a year- that's 3 sailings out of almost 500.

 

Pure speculation on my part, but I am thinking the cruises that appear to have the greatest potential for sailing at a loss may be the ones most likely to have a Parkwest event. I have a "funny feeling" about some of the Noordam winter cruises. The prices of all cabins are shockingly low. But what do I or any of us really know?

[barante]

I guess you don't like jazz.

I'm curious: Just what kinds of problems did the jazz crowd cause? Were they obnioxious, drunk, low-life or what?

I'm glad you found out of this well in advance. Meanwhile I'm listening to John Coltrain.

[puli]

MayI jump in? Last week I booked the Ryndam Sea of Cortez April 5th sailing with supposedly a guarranteed early dining seating ( booked a suite so we could get exactly what we wanted in order to celebrate a very special birthday) only to find out right after the "anytime dining" info came out and I called to 'just check' that a large group had reserved the entire early seating diningroom . NO EXCEPTIONS!

Needless to say I changed our sailing date and if I had taked HAL insurance the premium cost would have been lost! If I had not read about the institution of "Anytime Dining" on these boards I would have been a very dissappointed and mad Mariner upon embarcation in April.

[twinkletoes4445]

T I think Sail, with 55 +/- HAL cruises, has experienced being shut out, once. The Parkwest thing , we have been told, happens about 3x a year- that's 3 sailings out of almost 500.

 

Pure speculation on my part, but I am thinking the cruises that appear to have the greatest potential for sailing at a loss may be the ones most likely to have a Parkwest event. I have a "funny feeling" about some of the Noordam winter cruises. The prices of all cabins are shockingly low. But what do I or any of us really know?

 

So it sounds like the odds are pretty slim. And not that I'd want to be one of the ones shut out...but it does seem like the odds are in favor (at least now) that the individual cruiser won't have to deal with this.

 

Hmmm...Interesting about the Noordam. That could very well be the issue. I can't imagine why any winter cruise to the Caribbean would be cheap. But the thing about this is it's good to know. This may not happen to me, but if I go in knowing what to expect...or this is a possibility...at least it won't come as a complete surprise. And if it happens once, and it's really that bothersome (and it would be to me), then there are other choices for vacations out there.

[twinkletoes4445]

MayI jump in? Last week I booked the Ryndam Sea of Cortez April 5th sailing with supposedly a guarranteed early dining seating ( booked a suite so we could get exactly what we wanted in order to celebrate a very special birthday) only to find out right after the "anytime dining" info came out and I called to 'just check' that a large group had reserved the entire early seating diningroom . NO EXCEPTIONS!

Needless to say I changed our sailing date and if I had taked HAL insurance the premium cost would have been lost! If I had not read about the institution of "Anytime Dining" on these boards I would have been a very dissappointed and mad Mariner upon embarcation in April.

 

I don't blame you for being upset. There's getting to be a lot of "unkowns" when it comes to cruising these days. Right now, it seems the cruise lines have it both ways. It could be that if they see their individual cruisers dwindling (and maybe they don't care), they may make changes. But right now...it seems...it's too bad, so sad.

 

Well, I really want to cruise in the future...we just love it. But I do know that if we do, we'll probably just have to roll with the punches...because I don't know that this is going to change. It might, but it might not.

 

I am glad you were able to switch cruises. Hope you have a wonderful time. :)

[hammybee]

MayI jump in? Last week I booked the Ryndam Sea of Cortez April 5th sailing with supposedly a guarranteed early dining seating ( booked a suite so we could get exactly what we wanted in order to celebrate a very special birthday) only to find out right after the "anytime dining" info came out and I called to 'just check' that a large group had reserved the entire early seating diningroom . NO EXCEPTIONS!

Needless to say I changed our sailing date and if I had taked HAL insurance the premium cost would have been lost! If I had not read about the institution of "Anytime Dining" on these boards I would have been a very dissappointed and mad Mariner upon embarcation in April.

 

Imagine the surprises that await passengers who have never heardof CC.

 

HAL's communication in general, tends to be dismal and even worse as it relates to AYW dining. I am thinking that it is possible that the group booked after you did , given this sailing is out there. It demonstrates that there is no such thing as a guaranteed seating, regardless of cabin category. HAL does its best to accommodate all requests, especially for suite passengers and yet a large enough group will trump the individual passenger.

 

I sincerely hope that your revised plan works out for you.

 

It's my understanding that HAL trip insurance can be transferred to another HAL cruise should the passenger cancel and rebook. Am I mistaken?

[twinkletoes4445]

Imagine the surprises that await passengers who have never heardof CC.

 

That's it in a nutshell!!! :)

[puli]

Imagine the surprises that await passengers who have never heardof CC.

 

HAL's communication in general, tends to be dismal and even worse as it relates to AYW dining. I am thinking that it is possible that the group booked after you did , given this sailing is out there. It demonstrates that there is no such thing as a guaranteed seating, regardless of cabin category. HAL does its best to accommodate all requests, especially for suite passengers and yet a large enough group will trump the individual passenger.

 

I sincerely hope that your revised plan works out for you.

 

It's my understanding that HAL trip insurance can be transferred to another HAL cruise should the passenger cancel and rebook. Am I mistaken?

 

When I talked to Special Services to see why a suite reservation could not be guarranteed a dining choice I was told the group had booked 13 months ago and that they took every single seat in early dining..( some big group!). As far as carrying over the insurance you are probably right but if I had been unable to find an alternate cruise on HAL or had decided to go to Celebrity for our celebration all would have been lost!

[hammybee]

When I talked to Special Services to see why a suite reservation could not be guarranteed a dining choice I was told the group had booked 13 months ago and that they took every single seat in early dining..( some big group!).

 

Kind of makes you wonder why they created the perception that you could have early dining from the get go. Let's hope another group is not on your rebooked cruise. Does lightening strike twice?

[puli]

Kind of makes you wonder why they created the perception that you could have early dining from the get go. Let's hope another group is not on your rebooked cruise. Does lightening strike twice?

 

I hope not. I checked the HAL group booking web site and so far the March 26th Sea of Cortez cruise is not on their list. If that does happen later on and we are bumped fron first seating sparks will fly!