NCL back to back booking question

[mnmn926]

Hey all,

 

Thanks in advance for any help you can give. I have a repo cruise booked leaving Vancouver 9/23/07 on the NCL Star. I spoke with my TA this afternoon to inquire about booking a 1 nighter that the Star has leaving Seattle on 9/22/07 going to Vancouver. I thought it be cool to get an extra night of vacation.

 

My TA spoke with NCL (granted their customer service is closed) and was told we could not book these 2 cruises back to back. The NCL rep said she had no idea why it was just not allowed.

 

Anyway, any ideas why this would not be allowed??

 

Would Dudley Do-Right have arrested me had I booked these on my own online??

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

[sail7seas]

Just guessing but I think you will learn there could have been a Passenger Carriage (Jones Act) problem. That is most often the reason that sort of back-to-back is not allowed. I'm surprised your TA didn't mention that.

 

[mnmn926]

see below, poor spelling

[mnmn926]

Sail7,

 

I thought of that, and bet that ends up being the issue, however the cruise is from Seattle (USA) to Vancouver (Canada). I always thought it prohibited travel between 2 US Ports.

 

I would disembark in Vancouver, then reboard for the Vancouver to Los Angeles repo.

 

Me and the TA did discuss the Jones Act but were curious how this was a violation since the trip is for sale. She is calling NCL tomorrow to check again.

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

[sail7seas]

Interesting. I don't see where that would be a violation. Hope you'll share with us what you learn tomorrow.

 

[tpsully]

I have also booked April 24th repo cruise L/A -Vancouver backed into the

Alaska from Vancover to Seattle .April 27th.

 

I have talked with both N.C.L. and a T/A and have been told this reservation can be booked . After reading the C/C reviews I am still wondering. Who is correct.?

 

We do have seperate booking #'s . It is not a direct L/A to Seattle

cruise . Also we have booked the same cabin on both cruises . I would

think they would allow us leaving our bags in the room if we have to recheck in.

 

When I orginally made the reservations , The agent went off the phone to have a few questions answered came back and said good to go.

She also mentioned that once on the ship, I would be able to go to the front desk and have our cards updated for the Alaska leg. We did book these directly with N.C.L.

 

 

Maybe booking the cruises as seperate cruises makes a difference or the fact that the first part of the cruise is a Repo.

Would like to know what your T/A has to say.

[electricron]

I know the answer.

 

The Passenger Services Act, often called the Jones Act, prevents international flag ships sailing directly between two US ports (embark in one, disembark in another) without first visiting a "Distant" foreign port. The closest "Distant" foreign port to Seattle is in Russia, Columbia, or Fanning Island. The best way to define a "Distant" foreign port, is to define a "Near" foreign port. Canada, Central America, and Caribbean ports, including Bermuda, are "Near" foreign ports. These "Near" foreign ports are in the same countries you can sail to today without a passport.

 

While booking either cruise leg of this back to back is okay, Seattle to Vancouver, or Vancouver to Los Angeles, it's not okay to sail from Seattle to Los Angeles.

 

Ships sailing round trip Alaskan cruises including several US ports only have to visit a "Near" foreign port. A Canadian port meets the "Near" foreign port requirement. The big difference is that you embark and disembark at the same US port.

 

To sail one way between US cities, in this instance, Seattle to Los Angeles, without visiting a "Distant" foreign port, the ship has to be sailing under the American flag. Only three ships are presently sailing under the American flag, the NCLA's "Pride of" ships. By next spring, there will be only two ship left sailing under the American flag. While they can sail the itinerary under discussion, Seattle to Los Angeles with passengers, they aren't allowed to sail to Alaskan, Gulf of Mexico, or Caribbean ports. Which is one reason you'll probably never see them do this itinerary.

 

I have no idea if the "Distant"-"Near" foreign ports will change when the passports requirments change next year year. It would be nice if it did.

[mnmn926]

:) Ok everyone,

 

First of all thanks for the responses but I got an answer. There is nothing wrong with booking it just as long as I disembark in Vancouver, with my luggage, and recheck in for the next trip. It just couldn't be sold as a back to back. Still no firm answer as to why but I'm assuming you guys are correct in that it looks like a Sea to LA trip which is a no-no.

 

I have an AG mini-suite for the Repo cruise and just booked the cheapest available for the Sea to Vancouver since it is just an overnight sailing. The best part is I save almost $400 on airfare by booking a $150 room on a cruise ship. The reason is the multi-city ticket via Seattle instead of Vancouver is worth the change.

 

Thanks again,

 

Mark

[katmai]

Mark,

I'm pretty sure your itinerairy is a violation of passenger service act. A simple disembark doesn't really change your itinerairy at all. It is still illegal.

The problem is, these regulation is so complicated that even NCL (or other lines)'s representative often got them wrong. Although it seems okay right now, there is an extremely high possibility that you will be denied boarding when other more knowledgeable representatives find out.

Or you can be forced to cancel one segment.

 

Over the years, many many passengers tried to book this type of itinerairy (combining 2 repo cruise) so they can form a U.S to U.S trip and save on flight tickets.

Many many passengers are caught and either fined or forced to cancel one segment. Of course, some successfully did it without being caught by using different format of names and through different booking channels.

 

Anyway, it's a very risky business and I personally won't do it. You might get lucky but you never know.

By the way, some repos are indeed combinable. But the one you intended was definitely illegal. I know it's extremely tempting to combine them. I almost made the same mistake before.

 

You can still fly to Seattle and take the scenic amtrak train or quickcoach shuttle bus to get to Vancouver. That's what most travelers do to get around the expensive tickets.

 

Many many old threads have discussed PSA and Jones Act, and if you go through them, you will know clearly why it is illegal. A same day disembark and reboard doesn't make it legal.

[mnmn926]

:confused: Katmai,

 

After reading some other posts I am even more confused. The bad thing is that NCL said no problem and allowed the agent to book the overnight trip and said it was not a problem so long as I got off the ship.

 

I'm going to call again today and just cancel the stupid thing unless they give me a hassle about a refund. If so I don't know what I'll do.

 

Only in America would I need a passport to enter Canada but it not be considered "foreign."

 

Just a little frustrated.

[Globaliser]

I would disembark in Vancouver, then reboard for the Vancouver to Los Angeles repo.

First of all thanks for the responses but I got an answer. There is nothing wrong with booking it just as long as I disembark in Vancouver, with my luggage, and recheck in for the next trip. It just couldn't be sold as a back to back. Still no firm answer as to why but I'm assuming you guys are correct in that it looks like a Sea to LA trip which is a no-no.

You should be aware that most cruise lines regard disembarkation and immediate reboarding of the same ship on the same day as insufficient to avert a PSA problem. Or, to put it another way, it seems that most cruise lines take the view that if you do a Seattle-Vancouver and then immediately do a Vancouver-LA with a same-day turnaround in Vancouver, you fall foul of the Act and they will not allow you to travel the itinerary even if you are prepared to disembark and reboard.

Only in America would I need a passport to enter Canada but it not be considered "foreign."

The problem is not that Vancouver is not a "foreign" port for PSA purposes. The problem is that Vancouver is not a "distant foreign" port.

I have also booked April 24th repo cruise L/A -Vancouver backed into the Alaska from Vancover to Seattle .April 27th.

...

Maybe booking the cruises as seperate cruises makes a difference or the fact that the first part of the cruise is a Repo.

I fear that you have the same problem. This is not legal under the PSA if it's a same-ship same-day turnaround in Vancouver.

[mnmn926]

Globaliser,

 

It seems that most other posts seem to agree with you, granted some are as confusing to read as the law itself. The problem is that after 2 calls to NCL by the agent handling the booking, either her, or the NCL rep should have known this was not allowed and not granted the booking.

 

My "who shot Kennedy" feeling is that NCL can make an extra buck off me by charging me both the fare and then back charge me for the fine + and that is why they allowed it to be booked. At no time die either of them mention it was a violation of the law.

 

Now I gotta spend my day off making phone calls trying to get my money back and find a way from Seattle to Vancouver.

 

This is out 20th anniversary trip and I don't want any hassles so hopefully it'll get straightened out today.

 

Mark

 

"bring all my mules out here...kick 'em one time"

[Guest nhrich]

Mark, a lot of people use Quick Shuttle to get from Seattle to Vancouver. Their website is http://www.quickcoach.com/. Hope you have a great trip, in spite of what NCL is putting you through.

 

Rich, ACC

Carefree Vacations

[garycarla]

re: Passport vs Jones Act - these are two entirely different issues. As we all know, the government does not have a left hand or right hand, so therefore the idea of the left hand not know what the left hand is doing is well... you get the point.

 

re: NCL just trying to get money out of you. No, they just get tied up in these same silly things. And since it only happens once a year or so during transitioning nobody really knows.

 

re: Seattle to Vancouver : you can find this topic covered in depth on the Alaska boards. Another great option is to rent a car in Seattle and drive to Vancouver. There are drop offs with a mile of the cruise terminal. And, if you are going to spend time in Seattle (strongly suggested), you can get a car at the airport and avoid taxi issues.

[mnmn926]

Gonna do the Planes, trains and automobiles vacation.

 

Plane from DFW to SEA-TAC

Rental car for a couple of days to tour around

Amtrak from Seattle to Vancouver to replace the cruise

Cruise from Vancouver to LA

Plane back home.

 

NCL, after 3 calls from the agent finally had someone who said "oops" we should have not booked the trip as it is a violation of US law. Refund is in the works.

 

Thanks for everyone's insight and help with answering this still confusing law. I definitely think it needs to be revisited or maybe you can't revisit it unless you have someone walk it from one area of capitol hill to the other escorted by another individual carrying a lantern shouting lawmaker in the hall.:)

 

Mark

[garycarla]

Don't rule out driving from Seattle to Vancouver. It is a nice easy drive. We did the train once and drove a rental car once.

 

Train is nice, but you then have to get a cab from the train station in Vancouver to the Pier. Plan on a wait. Not terrible, but you do have to wait. And of course in Seattle, you have to get to the train station from wherever you are staying.

 

Drop off charge was not bad, at least when we did it. Actually, car rental was cheaper than train, plus two cab rides. And it was on OUR schedule.

[Birdnutty]

Don't rule out driving from Seattle to Vancouver. It is a nice easy drive. We did the train once and drove a rental car once.

 

Train is nice, but you then have to get a cab from the train station in Vancouver to the Pier. Plan on a wait. Not terrible, but you do have to wait. And of course in Seattle, you have to get to the train station from wherever you are staying.

 

Drop off charge was not bad, at least when we did it. Actually, car rental was cheaper than train, plus two cab rides. And it was on OUR schedule.

 

This is an interesting concept.... how bad were the drop off charges? I wan't even sure they'd do it, since we are crossing country borders and all.

 

How long did it take to drive?

[garycarla]

It works very well. Go to a few car rental sites like Hertz, Avis, National, etc and put in your dates and see what they charge. Our rates were not that bad, especially when you consider we elminated taxi charges.

 

I forget how long it took, but it is a wide open drive. go to maps.google.com and check it out. They also give driving directions and miles. Border crossing took about 10 minutes for us.