Two-class System on Ships?

[MandyGirl]

Having cruised the S/S Norway and learning a lot about the two-class social system onboard that ship (stairways only connecting certain decks, separate dining rooms, etc) it has always left some lingering questions in my mind. Watching the movie "Titanic" also was informative about this system.

After visiting the HAL boards, I have learned about the many "suite-life amenities" such as a separate dining room for breakfast/lunch, supposedly guaranteed table assignments, separate lounge area (Neptune), etc.

Now I read where HAL has backed away from some of those suite amenities.

My question is this: After reading various questions (such as "do suites have their own pool" or "do suites still get their own dining room" or "do suites get priority for this or that") and flying on airlines where first-class uses the front restrooms but coach class is asked to use the aft bathrooms (even if sitting bulkhead in coach that is much closer to the front restrooms)... are HAL passengers desiring a return to the two-class system found on cruiseships many years ago? Such as a Suite versus Non-Suite system?

[tommy]

Dont worry,Unless you are in a suite you wont even notice any difference.The service is good the food the same for everyone and everyone gets treated well, TOM

[localady]

I think the answer to your question is as varied as the passengers on HAL. I have stayed in both suites and non-suites and I enjoyed both immensely. We really never used the alternative dining area for the Suite passengers but did find some of the perks to be very nice (ie the coffee machine in the Neptune). I hope that HAL doesn't go much farther with the class system. I would find it terrible to be limited to a "lower class" dining room such as those folks on Cunard experience if they are not in Suite accommodations.:eek: That is one of the reasons that cruise line doesn't attract me.

 

I have only found a few of the suite pax to have "superior attitudes", in fact I have found that most would not want to be singled out for special treatment! That doesn't mean that I think that pax in the Suites shouldn't receive extra perks, they sure paid for them with a cruise cost that can run 4 to 5 times that of a inner cabin accommodation!:cool:

[sail7seas]

I understand your point but also think it should be like the concierge (club) floor in good hotels. You pay more; you get more....more than just a larger room.

 

No one has to buy a suite if they do not wish. But if they wish to, I think the cruiselines should make extra amentities available to those who wish to buy them. Why should EVERYONE do without extra comforts because SOME do not wish to buy them.

 

Choices; we all talk about having choices. I want the choice of buying more luxury/more comfort.

[MandyGirl]

I'm not worried. :) It just had me start thinking because I was seeing many similarities, and in history class growing up, we were always taught that history repeats itself. Just through reading various message boards, you see questions asking about priority, dining room seating, dining locations onboard, lounges, tenders, pools, Captain receptions, etc... and I was wondering if people were leaning towards wanting the old Titanic days of cruising back again... :)

[RevNeal]

Because of the co$t I have not enjoyed the "suite life." However, I don't really think I'm missing anything that really matters to me. I eat in the same dining room and lido, enjoy the same shows, the same lounges (except for the Neptune ... and could hardly care about a fully indoor lounge anyway), the same shore excursions. They only thing they have that I would like is the larger cabin and balcony. But ... then ... I've had cabins with balconies before and, while they're nice, in my opinion I'd rather do without and cruise more frequently (or on longer cruises). As for the other perks, the only one I bother buying extra is are the laundry and drycleaning packages.

 

In short ... I could care less ... I'm just happy to be aboard the ship in my very nice, not to mention large, J-category inside cabin. If someone else wants to pay money for a suite, and that suite includes all sorts of neat extras, it's no skin off my nose. Especially not when I can buy one or two of those extras ala carte. :)

[MandyGirl]

I understand your point but also think it should be like the concierge (club) floor in good hotels. You pay more; you get more....more than just a larger room.

I agree. I would LOVE to stay in a larger cabin with a decent-sized veranda to stretch out... but I don't need all the other amenities that are included. I would enjoy being able to pay a reduced rate just to have the cabin location, but don't need Neptune, concierge, priority tender, minibar, DVD, stationary, etc.

 

The thing that keeps us from booking a smaller verandah cabin is the small size, but the verandah sizes of suites looks awesome! Otherwise, we just go for location and get fresh air in public areas. Just don't need the other extras that are included with the price of suites, but would sure love the size! :) For $200 more each, we could go from an inside cabin on Nav deck to A-category on Nav deck, but it seems those verandahs are small. The size of a suite would be neat though! Might entice us to stay in our cabin more.:) But we don't need all the bells and whistles that are included with the price of a suite.

[RevNeal]

The thing that keeps us from booking a smaller verandah cabin is the small size, but the verandah sizes of suites looks awesome!

 

I think this may be true on the Vista ships ... I understand that the balconies in the A and B category balcony cabins are smaller than those on the S/R/V ships. On the S/R/V ships the A and B category verandah cabins used to be called (sometimes still are called) "minisuites." These are GREAT cabins, and the verandahs on them are large enough for someone to stretch out on the lounge and read while the other sits in a chair with their feet up on the table.

[torpeedo]

I am all for amenitie/perks for those who want to pay extra for them.. I don't like "class" distinctive ships. Big difference between amenities offered to Suite passengers on HAL and class distinction ships. I sailed as a young girl on the America and the United States on overseas trips. I believe it was the SS United States that had class distinctions. There were blocks/areas of the ships were there were ropes that you could not cross and dining rooms you were not permitted in. Food was also different. I can remember having to go up and down stairs to navigate around these areas where we were "forbidden!" Memories of a 13 year old are vague but those things stand out in my mind. I will not sail on the QM2 because they have gone back to those days in many ways.. Even though now I could sail in the Suites on the QM2, I just won't do it.

[Nasmas]

We've stayed in just about all types of rooms except an inside. The Suites are nice and I would never go back to not having a verandah, but we were in a SS last year and it was fine, not as large but large enough. No, I do not think there ought to be separate dining, etc. I like it as it is. I didn't like the idea of the ships that have separate dining according to the accomodations you book. I wonder if the food is different in the different dining rooms. I think on HAL you really do not know the difference unless you are in a suite. The prices are closer now than I've ever seen. Four or five years ago we booked an SS and my husband upgraded us to an S as a Christmas gift for me and he had to pay an enormous rate. Its not so as much now.

[MandyGirl]

Good point revneal! I was looking at the prices of 'A' and then prices of SS & S, and that is just a huge jump when we are playing with the idea of changing strictly for verandah. 'A' looks like the same cabin size/layout (we're currently booked in 203 sq ft I-category) but A just has an additional verandah. But then I started asking myself why the big jump in price to SS or S, and all the posts about suite amenities started rolling through my mind. That's what got me off on my tangent of thinking about our Norway cruise and learning about her history, and relating it to the HAL questions I see often. :)

[sail7seas]

Again, Mandy, I see your point.

 

 

However, I respectfully disagree with the premise. For HAL to begin selling the suites simply as larger rooms devoid of any amenities, the situation would probably become that no one could have the amenities anymore. Many folks would do just as you say......pay a significantly smaller amount (smaller than the current cost) in order to have a large cabin w/ large veranda. Some would say who needs the Neptune Lounge; others would say they don't care about the cocktail party. If not enough people are paying for these extras, then no one will be able to enjoy them. They will be eliminated.

 

So.......in order for you (used generically) to have more (at a reasonable cost), I am forced to have less. Why is that fair to me (again, used generically)? It is less fair to me for things to change the way you want than it to you if they stay the same. IF you valued that larger cabin/veranda enough, you would have the choice to buy it. If you take the extras away from being included, you take all choice away from me.

 

The Suites are a package and I certainly hope they stay that way. The package includes certain extras.

[tomc]

As long as it's not obvious: Doorways with signs saying "Suite pax only," or things like that. Pay more, get more; pay less, get less. Does not bother me in steerage that people up top are getting perks. I'm getting what I pay for, same as them.

[RevNeal]

However, I respectfully disagree with the premise. For HAL to begin selling the suites simply as larger rooms devoid of any amenities, the situation would probably become that no one could have the amenities anymore.

 

Actually, Sail, the SS category on the Vista series ships does, in a way, provide a larger cabin and verandah but without the suite perks. Granted, it's not the same size cabin or verandah as the full suite, but it's larger than the A/B category.

[MandyGirl]

Good point, Sail. It would be like you are saying - "S with Amenities" and "S without Amenities" could be two separate categories, but probably so many pax would book "without" that those who choose "with" would probably not be enough to maintain the current suite amenities. Makes total sense.

 

Just seeing so many questions online of the amenities had me wonder if that is what passengers are really seeking these days - more amenities. It really brought back the S/S Norway (S/S France) videos we watched onboard of the big discrepancy of services available. That's what prompted this poll - my curiousity.

[sail7seas]

Is is possible that there are so many questions about these amenities because many folks would like to have them accrue to all category cabins? Not just suites? Some are adaptable to a larger group while others are not.

 

 

Clearly priority boarding and tender passes are only valuable if there are few granted the amenity. Concierge service could be offered to all as it is in a fine hotel. There is a cocktail party for everyone now........the Captain's Welcome Aboard.

 

Robes are now in every cabin where it used to only be suites.

Makeup mirrors in all cabins.

Vista ships have tubs in many more cabins and they have many more veranda cabins.

 

 

 

REV has a good point about the "SS" on the Vista......They are a good compromise. Larger size cabin and verandah but cost is less as they come with no extras. I think that is pretty much what you are asking for???

[kryos]

That doesn't mean that I think that pax in the Suites shouldn't receive extra perks, they sure paid for them with a cruise cost that can run 4 to 5 times that of a inner cabin accommodation.

 

It's funny, but at this point in my financial life, I would never spend the extra money for a suite. That would be another cruise I wouldn't be able to take.

 

From what I read on these boards, the suite "amenities" are not worth the price ... at least to me. I get to see the same ports, pretty much eat the same food, partake in the same activities, and enjoy almost all the same facilities that the suite pax get to enjoy. So why spend?

 

Now the airlines ... that's a different story. While I have not yet "splurged" on business class, I promised myself after my California trip last month that I would never travel coast to coast in coach again. I never had a worst flight ... both directions ... than I had this past July. True, coach passengers get to their destination the same time as the folks in business class do, but boy ... do they have an uncomfortable trip.

 

I think the airlines are purposely taking away every ounce of comfort and every ammenity in coach, so that they can pack as many people onto the aircraft as possible. Personally, I think the reason they don't serve food anymore (you have to purchase it), is because it is almost impossible for two people, sitting side-by-side, to eat a meal in the coach section without bumping elbows and possibly causing a fracus to break out.

 

Like I said ... never again on a coast-to-coast trip. The extra $100 or so will be worth it. But, on a cruise ... I just don't think I'm getting that much more to make the suite worth it.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[sail7seas]

Rita......

 

I say and intend this in the most friendly way possible:

 

To YOU, it is worth it to pay extra to fly first class. I agree, it is worth it to us and that is the only way we fly. We go to all extremes to avoid airlines that do not have a first class section. So, we both agree it should be offered and available to those who wish to buy it.

 

But, to YOU, it is NOT worth the money to have the extra perks in a Suite. Does that mean that it should NOT be worth it to me either....that I should be unable to buy those amenities? That they should not be offered?

[MandyGirl]

Actually, what I started out doing was looking at cost difference.... and then putting two and two together after reading the many questions asked about suites over the years, it made me wonder to ask my original question. Something like the 'A' would suffice, but that really wasn't the point of my posting - the point of the posting was after reading questions about all the different separate areas (lounge, dining, pools, etc) and knowing the history of some other ships, it made me wonder if that is what passengers are really after these days. Are passengers wanting separate pools (since that question has been asked before)? Are passengers wanting separate dining areas (since Pinnacle provided breakfast/lunch)? Are passengers wanting separate lounges (such as Neptune)? If everything becomes separated, then that would be a system very similar to some previous cruiseships. Hence the poll question.

 

I understand it's different strokes for different folks. Maybe people that book insides would like amenities but have no desire for a verandah. I enjoyed reading torpeedo's experience as a child, just as I enjoy visiting with WWII veterans - to learn more of the history.

 

Maybe I intertwined multiple questions found on various posts too closely with the history of ships like S/S France, Titanic, etc that existed before my time... but it at least sparked the question in my mind. I apologize if my question has offended anyone, but putting those details together, one might could see the reasoning behind my question. I am certainly not asking HAL or any cruiseline to change their operations. Just a simple question based on messageboard postings and the history of cruising. :)

[MandyGirl]

True, coach passengers get to their destination the same time as the folks in business class do, but boy ... do they have an uncomfortable trip.

Rita - I had to chuckle at this. We flew Virgin Atlantic to London this past June. Outbound was an aisle seat for both of us, but return was an exit row where we could stretch our legs. But let me tell ya... the width of the seat was small! I sat down and realized "wow" - my hips must have really widened recently or this airline has narrow seats in coach!!!:eek: I have over 100K AAdvantage miles to use, and have seriously thought of just using them for first class on the next overseas flight!!

[sail7seas]

Obviously, I can only speak for myself and speaking for myself, I unequivacally know that I would not want a separate dining room, or pool or other 'public areas'. In a great many days aboard the 'dam' ships always in an "S", perhaps we had breakfast or lunch in Pinnacle/King's Room/Queen's Room maybe five times. But, I am sorry it is no longer offered for those who wish to eat there.

It is a diminishment of the Suite experience for those pax who partook of that offer to use those private rooms.

 

 

The Neptune Lounge is not a Lounge in the sense of a bar w/ a band. It is a 'retreat' that is very comfortable and provides the setting for the concierge to assist suite passengers in the most convenient, comfortable way for the pax.

I really, really like that amenity and am willing to have the cost of maintaining that room calculated and added into the fare we pay. I like it; I want it; I am willing to pay for it.

 

I do not wish for HAL to have a class system in the way you describe.

[MandyGirl]

The Neptune Lounge is not a Lounge in the sense of a bar w/ a band. It is a 'retreat' that is very comfortable and provides the setting for the concierge to assist suite passengers in the most convenient, comfortable way for the pax.

I am aware of the Neptune, as I stayed nextdoor to it last year on Maasdam while in an inside cabin. I had just read posters refer to it as a "lounge" but I guess there are various definitions for that. :)

[gizmo]

Mandy,

 

I don't think Hal pax are looking for a 2 class system. Anyone that wants that can cruise on Cunard.

 

I think people ask questions because they want to know what they are getting for their money. Each cruise line has different degrees of perks. Maybe they just want to make sure they don't miss out on something.

[localady]

I think it is just lovely that we are all free to determine what upgrades we are willing to pay for! Although at times it requires a shoe horn, I will always fly economy class vs. business or first class, as I'd rather spend the extra money on an upgraded cabin on the ship! Others have different preferences. Isn't it a wonderful world, that we are all free to make those decisions!!:cool:

[Stevesan]

I'm not so sure that the original question is as cost sensitive as it may initially appear.

In the first place, those who are truly "class" conscious would never sail on a mass market line. They'd either charter a yacht or, at the lower end, book with Seaborn or equivalent where lesser classes don't exist.

More likely, the answer may lie in why we cruise. I'd put forward that those who cruise for the experience of being at sea, and are indifferent to the ports, are more willing to pay for suite perks. Even all sea days may be desirable. Others who care less about the onboard experience, but are port intensive types, may be more likely to book a lower price accomodation simply because they are not very interested in ship board life. This pax may well be able to afford the suite accomodation, but sees no sense in paying the difference.

I think there's a large element of truth in this premise. I'm just not sure I've expressed it properly. The reality is we behave the way we do due to a complex of reasons. Despite what Jack Palance said, there is usually more than just one thing. :)