Two-class System on Ships?

[RevNeal]

[QUOTE]I enjoy sailing with Celebrity and Costa because they have butler service for their suite pax. I like that. HAL doesn't have that, so I'll "rough" it with a concierge and a good steward.[/QUOTE]

Ok ... please pardon my ignorance, but what does a butler do? I'm reminded of the routine between Jimmy Durante and Arthur Treacher.

[Vicar]

REV,
I picture Dudley Moore and Sir John Geilgud in Arthur *LOL*

[RevNeal]

[QUOTE]I picture Dudley Moore and Sir John Geilgud in Arthur *LOL*[/QUOTE]

Arthur: "Do you want to run my bath for me?"
Butler: "It's what I live for." while continuing to read the paper.

[Tvisitor]

[quote name='Sailure'][color=darkgreen]Don't believe everything you read on these boards[/color].:)[/QUOTE][quote name='sail7seas'] the "S" Suites are among the first to sell out.

Some upgrades? ------Yes
Many??? --------------No[/Quote]I thank you for the reassurance. Having never been given an upgrade, I might have thought it was me.

Sail7seas,Sailure and other suite pax,

If "the 'S' Suites are among the first to sell out" with all the perks included, and priced accordingly, then it is truly a mystery to me why HAL would be cutting the perks for its suite pax. Why do you think HAL has been cutting perks for its suite pax?

[sail7seas]

Because they can. It is their ship and they can do as they wish.


Perhaps the thinking is...... "If we are selling the suites out most of the time, perhaps we can offer less, raise the price and still sell them out. Let's try it and see what happens??? "

IMO.....the few changes they have made are not significant to me. I do not feel that our cruise experience (enjoyment) has YET been impacted by the few changes they have made.

This is only my personal perspective and not in accord with everyone's but I never much cared about Suite Lunch, I never cared about eating breakfast and lunch in Pinnacle/King's Room (I much prefer room service) and I cannot think of any other things we used to have but no longer receive.

To me they have much improved the Suite experience by ADDING Neptune Lounges to all the ships. Now THAT is something I care ALOT about. v

[gizmo]

[quote name='Tvisitor']
If "the 'S' Suites are among the first to sell out" with all the perks included, and priced accordingly, then it is truly a mystery to me why HAL would be cutting the perks for its suite pax. Why do you think HAL has been cutting perks for its suite pax?[/QUOTE]One perk that has been cut out is the breakfast/lunch in the Pinnacle or Queen/King room. I think it was because of cut backs with dining room staff.

The suite dinners might be for the same reason. The staff is cut so thin, maybe they felt they couldn't spare any to handle a suite dinner.

[sail7seas]

[b]I think it possible they discontinued Suite breakfast and lunch in Pinnacle because so few Suite pax usually took advantage of the opportunity. Whenever we went (the few times), there were not many others there.[/b]

[Randyk47]

I guess I have what best can be described as mixed feelings and thoughts about this. One of the things we like about cruising is that once you leave your cabin all things are pretty much even. Unless it comes up in a discussion in a lounge or at dinner you really have no idea, nor is it really anybody's business, what cabin you're in or not in. At the same time, since we can afford to and only cruise once a year, we have the tendency to book suites or near-suite cabins. With those we obviously get some extra perks and we use some of them, though not all. Mostly we like the extra room and comfort. DW has mild claustrophobia so even once we retire we'll at least be in an outside cabin with a verandah.

[Orcrone]

[quote name='sail7seas']Because they can. It is their ship and they can do as they wish.


Perhaps the thinking is...... "If we are selling the suites out most of the time, perhaps we can offer less, raise the price and still sell them out. Let's try it and see what happens??? "[/QUOTE]Another possibility is that "To maintain these services we're going to have to raise the cost. But we have to remain competitive, so we have to maintain costs. Well, some services like the concierge and laundry are used by many, so we'll keep them. But other services, like breakfast and lunch in the Pinnacle is being underutilized. So why don't we get rid of it, and keep costs and fares in check?"

That point of view makes good business sense, and should make good sense to the PAX. Maintain the services people use and get rid of the others.JMHO

[gizmo]

[quote name='sail7seas'][b]I think it possible they discontinued Suite breakfast and lunch in Pinnacle because so few Suite pax usually took advantage of the opportunity. Whenever we went (the few times), there were not many others there.[/b][/QUOTE]
Possible, but if you only went a few times, I don't think that would be a good sampling of how many pax actually used it.

[sail7seas]

How many times would be sufficient? How many ships?

It was our experience than when we were in Pinnacle/King's Room breakfasts, we were just about alone.

If you saw differently, well, then, that would be YOUR experience. I have stated MINE.



The grass is green. The sky is blue.

[gizmo]

No need to get snarky.

I did not question how many times or how many ships. It was stated "the few times". My comment was based on this.

[sail7seas]

Snarky? Huh? You misunderstand.


I asked a legitamate question. IMO

How many observations does one have to make before it is valid? If it is valid as to one ship, is it valid as to all? What standards apply?

[Tvisitor]

[quote name='gizmo']One perk that has been cut out is the breakfast/lunch in the Pinnacle or Queen/King room. I think it was because of cut backs with dining room staff. The suite dinners might be for the same reason. The staff is cut so thin, maybe they felt they couldn't spare any to handle a suite dinner.[/QUOTE]There is no doubt that HAL Vista ships are designed to sail with a lower crew to pax ratio than the S class ships were. Perhaps it is just a cheapening of the product. Perhaps a part of it is based on some efficiencies that the folks in the home office anticipated that the newer designs would achieve. I don’t know. However, I am still not satisfied with a "staff is tight" answer as the reason for cutting suite perks, unless it is because the line can’t attract staff to fill the needed positions. After all, on a design/plan basis, given their years of experience, the folks at HAL have a pretty good idea what staff is required to cater to the tastes of suite pax, and the perk-cutting is being done fleet-wide (i.e. even where crew to pax ratios of the ships that provided all the perks could be maintained, assuming the availability of crew).

The answers given by sail7seas and Orcrone, that the demand for some perks simply may not justify the cost of providing them, make sense to me.

[peaches from georgia]

[quote name='Tvisitor']...... the demand for some perks simply may not justify the cost of providing them, make sense to me.[/QUOTE]
From everything I've read here and on other HAL boards over the last several years, it certainly wasn't lack of attendance that was the reason for eliminating the 'suite dinner'. That appears to be much more a cost-cutting or labor issue and not any lessening of demand by suite pax.

[Tvisitor]

[quote name='peaches from georgia']From everything I've read here and on other HAL boards over the last several years, it certainly wasn't lack of attendance that was the reason for eliminating the 'suite dinner'. That appears to be much more a cost-cutting or labor issue and not any lessening of demand by suite pax.[/QUOTE]Well, there would be no need for cost-cutting anywhere, if people were really willing to pay full-boat prices. And the folks around here are telling me they believe the suites sold out fast at the prices necessary to support all the old perks, the inference being that they still would. So, if you are giving me an either/or choice, that would make it a "labor issue." Yet, at least for the Vista Ships, the crew levels were set lower by design. To me, that decision seems inconsistent with the premises some people are using.

[gizmo]

[quote name='peaches from georgia']From everything I've read here and on other HAL boards over the last several years, it certainly wasn't lack of attendance that was the reason for eliminating the 'suite dinner'. That appears to be much more a cost-cutting or labor issue and not any lessening of demand by suite pax.[/QUOTE]
I agree the suite dinners were always well attended. After seeing the reduction in dining room staff on my last cruise, I don't see how they could pull even a couple of people to serve the tables for a suite dinner. Cost cutting may play a part in this also, since wine was served with dinner.

[Orcrone]

In my huge statistical sample of one (my upcoming Maasdam cruise) all the S suites are sold out, they only have a guarantee listed for a balcony and there are still many outside rooms available. So from that admittedly small sample, there are plenty of people willing to pay extra for the suites.

BTW, I know the verandah rooms are not suites, just added that in to show people are spending for the more expensive rooms.

[sail7seas]

Ever since HAL introduced Statendam class (and newer) ships with "S" suites, we have been cruising in them. ALWAYS during all of these years, we have found the "S" suites and the least expensive cabins are the first to sell out. That is not to say that on every cruise we have been on that every "S" has always been occupied, but I am saying that it is darn near to 98-99% occupancy.


On more than one occasion, we had to select a different sailing date when booking because all of the Suites were spoken for. And we very rarely book closer than about 6 months to sailing date and very frequently we book 9+ months in advance.

[Nasmas]

[quote name='gizmo']Possible, but if you only went a few times, I don't think that would be a good sampling of how many pax actually used it.[/QUOTE]We were in a suite on the Maasdam, I think and there was a Queen's room for suites guests. We went one time and there were only two other people there. We never went back. And, on other cruises we've never used the facility at all. So, I really do think that's the reason for the cuts. I won't miss it. Its the same food as in the dining room anyway.

[ryansmemom]

We enjoy the suite perks and the size of the room. Chimera and I tend to spend a lot of time in our suite. I have already described my reasons for this many times and the suite perks especially the concierge service greatly enhance my cruise experience. So far, none of the cut backs in suite perks have really impacted negatively on my experience. The addition of the Neptune Lounge and concierge has been such a positive one that it outweighs any negative effect of any cutback so far.

Although I do enjoy breakfast on my balcony, Chimera and I did enjoy having breakfast and lunch in the King's Room as well. The menu was the same as the main dining room but the service was very personal since it was not the open seating arrangement you would find in the main dining room. Although there were no assigned tables, the stewards knew all of the people who were dining there because there were a limited number of people who were able to do so. The number of people who actually dined there was quite varied, in my experience. When we were on the Maasdam and breakfast and lunch were served in the Pinnacle, after the first day, the room was empty save for the staff. In December, on the Rotterdam in the King's room, practically every seat was occupied for every meal. As for previous cruises, I don't recall very clearly how many people were using the suite dining for breakfast or lunch.

As far as a class system is concerned. I don't think HAL has a true class system. I would not be comfortable living with a class system. I think people who choose to pay for extra service are provided with that extra service. For the most part it is private and inobtrusive and does not impact anyone else, nor should it. Where someone sleeps on board is really of no consequence and no one's business. We are all on the same journey, sharing the same experiences and we have all paid to be there. In my opinion to talk about how much we paid or what perks we may receive is rude and boorish at best. It serves no purpose and can only be hurtful to someone else. The person doing the bragging is either trying to show how wonderful it is to be living in a higher level of accomodation or how wonderful it is to get a great bargain and sail at a lower accomadation. Either way someone gets put down.

That is why I object to class systems. However, I do think that people are entitled to buy what will enhance their cruise for them. They can tailor their experience. If it involves living in a suite with all of the available perks fine. If it is an inside cabin and that is what you truly enjoy, go for it!

Let's just all respect each other and our choices. Let's just all enjoy being together.

Linda

[kryos]

[quote name='sail7seas']Perhaps the thinking is...... "If we are selling the suites out most of the time, perhaps we can offer less, raise the price and still sell them out. Let's try it and see what happens??? "
[/QUOTE]
Do most people aboard ship, especially on a port-intensive cruise, even take advantage of the suite lunch and breakfast? It would seem that most people ... even those in the best suites ... often just grab a bite at the Lido and then head off to enjoy their day?

I only say this because I sure notice how crowded the Lido is at breakfast on port days.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Sailure]

[quote name='revneal']Ok ... please pardon my ignorance, but what does a butler do? I'm reminded of the routine between Jimmy Durante and Arthur Treacher.[/QUOTE]The Butler did all the things for me that I didn't want to do for myself plus the things the concierge does in Suite Svc. on HAL.

I usually have friends up to my suite for canapes, dinner, tea, etc. and the butler serves the entire time and clears the table, he makes sure my clothes are cleaned, pressed and put out for the evening, if I want a special wine for dinner in the dining room he will see that it's there for me when I get there, he arranges my tours, or if I'm not going on a tour but want to get a local driver he will see that the driver is waiting for me when I get off the ship, he makes sure my driver is waiting for me at disembarkation and that my laundry is done and packed before I leave. He will see that my bath is drawn.

I know it's pretentious and maybe even disgusting to some people, but like I said...I live for my cruises and I don't drive a Lexus or eat caviar everyday...so this is one of the few indulgences I allow myself. ;)

Usually when I'm home I hang around in cutoffs and a tanktop and go barefoot and eat baloney sandwiches!:D

[Sailure]

[quote name='revneal']Arthur: "Do you want to run my bath for me?"
Butler: "It's what I live for." while continuing to read the paper.[/QUOTE]
Well...he applied for the job!!!!:D

[Sailure]

[quote name='Tvisitor']I thank you for the reassurance. Having never been given an upgrade, I might have thought it was me.

Sail7seas,Sailure and other suite pax,

If "the 'S' Suites are among the first to sell out" with all the perks included, and priced accordingly, then it is truly a mystery to me why HAL would be cutting the perks for its suite pax. Why do you think HAL has been cutting perks for its suite pax?[/QUOTE]
[color=navy]Could be that the percs they're cutting back on weren't being utilized by most of the suite pax anyway. I can't see them keeping something that only a few people used. [/color]