Boat Drill

[megabill]

On X, the immersion suits aren't demonstrated to guests. SOLAS (i think) requires immersion suts for 10% of capacity of the each lifeboat and raft (stored in each lifeboat/raft)

[megabill]

As for actually lowering the lifeboats... USCG requires (i've heard, dont know for 100% fact) that ships are required to lower each lifeboat once per month. Celebrity tends to lower their lifboats each time there is a drill for crew (of course, not the ones that are on the dock-side of the ship). Liferafts dont get inflated, but the davits are extended.

 

Not being a saftey officer myself, i can't say for fact why there is different interpretation into the SOLAS/USCG rules and regs. The only thing i can guess is that maybe there is room for interpretation in there. Perhaps, as long as guets are accounted for, it doesn't matter how its done (some cruiselines do a roll call, others just count them). Perhaps as long as guests end up on the lifeboat, its up to the cruiseline to figure out what to do with guests before then (in a lounge/muser station, open decks.. whatever). Stuff like that... who knows! Another possible reason might have to do with country of ships registry - maybe thare are different rules to follow there. Not saying any are for sure, but just throwing out possibilites.

 

I've come up with my own reasons why being in a muster station is better than directly going outside.. maybe im right, maybe not. first - being out of the sun - good thing. Second - in a real emergency, you'll be inside the mustser station before being led outside... while you're inside, crew are outside getting the lifeboat into position. Think moving boats on moving cables with moving grease... i know *i* wouldn't want to be under that while it was getting into position. (who wants grease on their head, or god forbid worse: a boat....)

[Karynanne]

I ask as in 'why do you climb the mountain' because it is there. There are immersion suits on Constellation. Clearly you do not know what they are. Can I have yours?

 

In the event that there was a disaster in Arctic Waters your time of survival in the sea, in ordinary clothing, is measured in minutes. With an immersion suit you might survive for 30 minutes of so. Once in the lifeboat, even having been immersed in the sea your chances of survival will extend considerably.

 

An immersion suit should be used with water temperatures below 10 celsius degrees 40 farhenhite. If you could guarantee dry boarding then you might not need an immersion suit.

 

"Clearly" I didn't know what an immersion suit was...now I do. If Celebrity "clearly" wanted their passengers to be aware of these suits, they would advise us, and inject this information in the Muster drill.

[raudacruise]

As for actually lowering the lifeboats... USCG requires (i've heard, dont know for 100% fact) that ships are required to lower each lifeboat once per month. Celebrity tends to lower their lifboats each time there is a drill for crew (of course, not the ones that are on the dock-side of the ship). Liferafts dont get inflated, but the davits are extended.

 

Not being a saftey officer myself, i can't say for fact why there is different interpretation into the SOLAS/USCG rules and regs. The only thing i can guess is that maybe there is room for interpretation in there. Perhaps, as long as guets are accounted for, it doesn't matter how its done (some cruiselines do a roll call, others just count them). Perhaps as long as guests end up on the lifeboat, its up to the cruiseline to figure out what to do with guests before then (in a lounge/muser station, open decks.. whatever). Stuff like that... who knows! Another possible reason might have to do with country of ships registry - maybe thare are different rules to follow there. Not saying any are for sure, but just throwing out possibilites.

 

I've come up with my own reasons why being in a muster station is better than directly going outside.. maybe im right, maybe not. first - being out of the sun - good thing. Second - in a real emergency, you'll be inside the mustser station before being led outside... while you're inside, crew are outside getting the lifeboat into position. Think moving boats on moving cables with moving grease... i know *i* wouldn't want to be under that while it was getting into position. (who wants grease on their head, or god forbid worse: a boat....)

 

 

I think we are on the same page here. The Celebrity muster stations are outside under the lifeboats. That doesn't seem like a really good place to be in case of emergancy.

 

Main point. Something bad happens listen to the crew members and use common sense.

 

Second point I guess. Deal with the nonsense of the sailaway drill so you and your fellow passengers can get it over as quickly as possible.

[Pontius Navigator]

1. Celebrity muster stations are inside as on all other cruise ships. The difference is that Celebrity then guide the passengers to the life boat stations whereas other end the drill at the muster station.

 

2. Port of Registry is not the answer as all the companies I have sailed with are registered in Bermuda.

 

3. On immersion suits, thanks Megabill. You say stowed in lifeboats; on Constellation they were in lockers on the boat deck.

 

4. Karynanne, that Celebrity do not tell passengers about the immersion suits is clear. Given that 30% of the compliment is composed of crew but they have only 10% of suits then it is likely that these suits are intended to immersion victims after they have been recovered on to the lifeboat.

 

'nother question.

 

Do the tender/boat handlers wear immersion suits during tender operations in Alaskan or Antarctic Waters?

[excitedofharpenden]

OK, here's what I do. There's an announcement about the lifeboat drill and I make sure I'm in my cabin to get my life jacket at the appropriate time, put it on so that I am not struggling with it in the corridor or on deck and taking someone's eye out with my flailing arms and listen for the alarm. I have never found it complicated to put the jacket on and there are plenty of crew members around to ask if necessary.

 

I meet at the appropriate muster station and listen to what they have to say and then follow out to the area around the lifeboats as instructed. I make a mental note of the muster station I have been to. When it's all over I go back to my cabin and take the life jacket off there so that I don't remove the eyes of those people others may have missed on the way out.

 

At the end of the day we could talk to the "nth" degree about procedures in the event of a real emergency. Past events have shown that it is the efficiency of the crew that really helps in those cases and I will put my faith in those on board to behave professionally and not think about it too much, knowing they have received the appropriate training. I'll do my bit as asked, go for self help in the event of not understanding and hope that I nor the crew ever have to put into practice what has been learned.

 

Phil

[TravelerThom]

I think we are on the same page here. The Celebrity muster stations are outside under the lifeboats. That doesn't seem like a really good place to be in case of emergancy.

 

Main point. Something bad happens listen to the crew members and use common sense.

 

Second point I guess. Deal with the nonsense of the sailaway drill so you and your fellow passengers can get it over as quickly as possible.

Celebrity Muster Stations are NOT repeat NOT outside under the lifeboats - they are all inside in public areas - Theatre, Casino, Lounges. AFTER assembly in the muster stations and demonstation of proper use of the life vests you are lead to the Promenade Deck under the lifeboats. It is stressed that this location under any particular life boat may not be where you would be in case of emergency [as that could be the site of damage or whatever].

 

I disagree that the muster drill is "nonsense" - but will agree that it is treated that way by many passengers. I for one intend to listen to maximize my chances of my survival in case of emergency - others can do as they choose as long as they don't interfer with with my understanding of emergency procedures [but don't expect me to listen compasionately when the same people who were treating the drill as nonsense then complain that they weren't told what to do].

 

I TOTALLY agree with "Main point. Something bad happens, listen to the crew members and use common sense."

[megabill]

Pontius: Im not say i disagree with you about the ships registry thing - as i said it was just and idea about the possibility. But of the ships you list in your signature, i checked the registry of them because i know Mercury (my most recent ship) isn't registered in Bermuda, but instead, Bahamas.

 

Oceana is registerd in UK

Arcadia is registered in Bermuda

QE2 is registered in UK

Constellation is registered in Bahamas

 

I checked some carnival ships, and they have different registries... some Bahamas, some Panama. HAL is regisered in Netherlands, Costa is Italy, X seems to be all Bahamas, NCL seems to be Bahamas, RCCL also bahamas, Pricess has Bermuda, Bahamas and Panama.

 

all im saying is - who knows. I thought what happens if a cruiseline has ships registerd to multiple countries (princess in for example) if the rules differ between registries, does that mean each ship has slightly different procedures? I would imagine the answer is yes but as a crew member, i would hope not.. but who knows.

[CatServants]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but - No matter how in/efficient a muster drill can be, I know we all want to ensure safety. We've all seen MANY inattentive pax during the drill and quite a few here have mentioned it. I was wondering... When flying, how many of us pay rapt attention to the flight attendants safety lecture; read the safety pamphlet; count the rows to our nearest exit; analyze the emergency door so we can open it in an emergency; wear appropriate shoes/clothing for a flight emergency rather for comfort/aesthetics; etc.?

 

I'm not judging, I'm just curious. I think it becomes easy to trivialize the very things done for our safety because we think we already have the answers. I'm guilty of trivializing the muster drill. I do exactly what I'm told, when I'm told, without (public) complaint, but, ask me where my muster station/assigned life boat is 2 days later and ????? My poor DH becomes responsible for that.:rolleyes:

[megabill]

CatServants: Agreed :) I admit, after flying so many times, like others have said about Boat Drills, i tend to tune out the emergency schpiel, becuase i've heard it a number of times... and plane to plane, much doesn't change - there always an inflatable slide in door, "the nearest emergency exit might be behind you", pull tabs to inflate...... yada yada yada :P

 

And - certainly not to trivialize anyone's concern about knowing where their muster station is after the first day - but thats why the crew has another drill each voyage. We obviously need to train more; so that when when you're going down the stairwell, we can tell you if you're headed in the wrong (or hopefully, right) direction direction. Crew are stationed at each floor in each stairwell to help guide you. On X ships your life jacket doesn't have your room number, but instead your Muster Station letter... we know which location each corresponds to and can help you from there.

[bunting]

And - certainly not to trivialize anyone's concern about knowing where their muster station is after the first day - but thats why the crew has another drill each voyage. We obviously need to train more; so that when when you're going down the stairwell, we can tell you if you're headed in the wrong (or hopefully, right) direction direction. quote]

 

The other reason for a seperate crew drill is to ensure compliance with SOLAS...as you probably know not all crew go to a pax drill but SOLAS through various flag state enforcement has the crew drill to ensure attendance by crew for a specific number of drills per month...

[bunting]

Indeed quite possible but listening to the ships broadcast wold have achieved the same ends?

 

Hi Pontius, that would be logical but I think the continuous music allowed one electrician to walk between speakers to check at his/her pace rather than rely just on feedback from the crew at the muster stations...Voyager did the same thing during the transit from Finland to the US and I can still catch myself singing ¨Yes Sir I can Boogie¨ followed by counting to three in Finnish!!!:)

[Amlee]

1. Celebrity muster stations are inside as on all other cruise ships. The difference is that Celebrity then guide the passengers to the life boat stations whereas other end the drill at the muster station.

 

No, not all cruise ships have their muster stations on the inside.

[CatServants]

We obviously need to train more; so that when when you're going down the stairwell, we can tell you if you're headed in the wrong (or hopefully, right) direction direction. Crew are stationed at each floor in each stairwell to help guide you. On X ships your life jacket doesn't have your room number, but instead your Muster Station letter... we know which location each corresponds to and can help you from there.

 

 

Megabill - PLEASE DON"T MAKE ME TRAIN MORE!!!:eek: I promise not to panic, shove other pax overboard, run screaming to the first lifeboat I see, jump on, and capsize it!:p;):p Thanks for being willing to get me going in the right direction!

 

You know, separate of the law, sometimes I wonder if the drills are really meant for the pax. You have to assume in a real emergency there will be many pax with level heads and many pax will panic. The crew has to have a chance to learn to "herd" and corral 2-3000 confused, sometimes uncooperative pax.

 

Denise

[jaybee]

I'm with you, Phil...What a tempest in a teapot this is.

The lifeboat drill is mandated by the Coast Guard, and no matter how annoying and uncomfortable it is for all of us, in case of an actual sinking, I think we could all recognize the scofflaws. They'd be the panic stricken ones trying to figure out which is the right side of the life jacket.)

The instructions for donning the lifejackets, as well as a map to the muster stations are in plain sight on the inside of the cabin door. If a real emergency occurs, that is NOT the time to be wishing you'd paid attention at the drill. I have never been on a Celebrity, or any other ship where crew members weren't there to check for passengers with their jackets on incorrectly, or not knowing where they should go. It is a hurried, stressful exercise, as it would be in an actual emergency.

Consider it a necessary evil, and try to relax. The bars will still be open afterwards.

We've been on 6 Celebrity cruises, and only one time had a drill inside. That was, I believe, a late departure time, and I don't remember what other circumstances, but it was unusual.

Additionally, call me crazy, but I try to walk on deck every morning, and I always take note of our muster station as I pass it.

It is just too bad that silly life jacket makes me look FAT!

 

 

 

OK, here's what I do. There's an announcement about the lifeboat drill and I make sure I'm in my cabin to get my life jacket at the appropriate time, put it on so that I am not struggling with it in the corridor or on deck and taking someone's eye out with my flailing arms and listen for the alarm. I have never found it complicated to put the jacket on and there are plenty of crew members around to ask if necessary.

 

I meet at the appropriate muster station and listen to what they have to say and then follow out to the area around the lifeboats as instructed. I make a mental note of the muster station I have been to. When it's all over I go back to my cabin and take the life jacket off there so that I don't remove the eyes of those people others may have missed on the way out.

 

At the end of the day we could talk to the "nth" degree about procedures in the event of a real emergency. Past events have shown that it is the efficiency of the crew that really helps in those cases and I will put my faith in those on board to behave professionally and not think about it too much, knowing they have received the appropriate training. I'll do my bit as asked, go for self help in the event of not understanding and hope that I nor the crew ever have to put into practice what has been learned.

 

Phil

[Karynanne]

Phil, I'm in total agreement with your method of "Muster". I always check the back of the door to see where my Muster Station is located...and of course it's on the actual life-jacket as well.

 

Unitil the OP started this thread, I really hadn't given Celebrity's a yea or nay thought, regarding Muster procedures. Each cruiseline has it's own procedures, and so be it...

 

And to the person who mentioned that it would be nice to have a "slim" look to the life-jackets...thumbs up!!!

 

Karyn

[Kapricorn]

In an actual emergency during a Celebrity cruise, do I head to the muster station, or to the lifeboat where I was stationed during the drill? I'm confused, because on Holland-America I am assigned a specific lifeboat.

 

Donald.

[scamper]

Getting back to the issue of putting the lifejackets on correctly, there are instructions on the back of your cabin door. I don't suggest waiting until the horn blows (or the bells to ring, or whatever) to put it on. You can mess with it in the comfort and privacy of your room and then when the alarm does sound, you go to your station and hope that someone there will tell you if you got it wrong. I feel for anyone who is c'phobic and would actually have to wear one for hours, especially in a crowded lifeboat...you just can't count on the steerage and the noble to stay behind like in the old days.

 

Boat/muster drills are inconvenient, but think how much more inconvenient an actual sinking would be.

[hajekfam]

In an actual emergency during a Celebrity cruise, do I head to the muster station, or to the lifeboat where I was stationed during the drill? I'm confused, because on Holland-America I am assigned a specific lifeboat.

 

Donald.

Celebrity announces at the drill that in the event of any actual emergency, you would go to your muster station and then be directed out to the lifeboat which may or may not be the same one you are standing under. During the drill, they do take you out to stand under a particular lifeboat as practice. There will be an announcement during the drill similar to "Casino will proceed to lifeboats 14, 15, 16". You then go and stand under the lifeboat in orderly lines.

This practice is so that you would understand what would happen in case of a real emergency - they will determine which lifeboats can be used and where to direct passengers based on the location of the problem.

I would really be wary of being assigned a particular lifeboat - what if the problem is on that side of the ship near that lifeboat and everyone has to use the other side.

[scamper]

what if the problem is on that side of the ship near that lifeboat and everyone has to use the other side.

 

Then I would imagine that a lot of people would be in trouble. Since the ship would have to be about half full for the entire ship's complement to use only half the available lifeboats.

[Kapricorn]

Celebrity announces at the drill that in the event of any actual emergency, you would go to your muster station and then be directed out to the lifeboat which may or may not be the same one you are standing under.

 

Hajekfam, thank you very much for the explanation. I would be wary, though, of milling (and possibly being trapped) in the Casino with hundreds of other apprehensive passengers during an actual emergency, and the lifeboats are one deck down, accessible by interior stairs. Remember the Andrea Doria listing to one side and the lifeboats on her port side were useless? The survivors were fortunate that the Doria took so long to sink, enabling all of them to be evacuated to rescue ships.

 

What if a Celebrity ship listed like the Doria during an emergency? Would the slot machines in the Casino topple over? What if the sinking was imminent, rather than hours later? I'd rather be out on the open decks than inside muster stations.

 

Donald.

[Pontius Navigator]

Then I would imagine that a lot of people would be in trouble. Since the ship would have to be about half full for the entire ship's complement to use only half the available lifeboats.

 

I believe that all ships now have to have twice the capacity of lifeboats/liferafts to the total people of board to allow for an emergency where the vessel list prevents the lowering of lifeboats on one side.

 

In the case of the Constellation, with 9 boats on one side, the lifeboat capacity would be about 840 with a further 300 on the tenders or a total of 1140. Given a total of over 3000 people on board, they would then need additional liferafts for a further 1900. I did not count liferafts but noted one liferaft dispenser pack with possibly 6 liferafts, maybe even 9. This would cater for another 600-900 people. The tenders would then be used to control the lifeboats and take the liferafts in tow.

 

Even with all lifeboats and tenders in use they would still need to use liferafts. Now liferaft drills would be really interesting. :)

[scamper]

Just because I had nothing better to do, I fired off a quick note to Celebrity asking what happens in the event half the lifesaving flotational apparati were unavailable in the event of an emergency. This is what I got back from Justin:

 

"In regards to your e-mail, half of the lifeboats will not accommodate

all guest on the cruise if the ship is at full capacity. ***However, should

a situation arise where the ship is on its side, none of the lifeboats

will be usable.*** (Emphasis mine) We assure you that appropriate measures will be taking before the ship gets to this point."

 

Well, we can only hope.

[Pontius Navigator]

I have looked to see if I could validate my assumption. There is a fair bit on the web but nothing definitive.

 

Clearly with over 3000 on board and 14x120 and 4x150 lifeboats that still only comes to 2280 and some of those boats may not be 120 seaters. This means they need to lower all boats and also sufficient life rafts for a further 1000.

 

Now read this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_van_Oldenbarnevelt_(ship)

 

Then ask Justin again :)

[jaybird from SC]

Go to Cruise Blogs and Websites and read "A ship that went "bump" in the night."