Hand Sanitizers Gone?

[birdylady]

I just read a review of a members February cruise on Explorer and they stated that all the hand sanitizers entering the WJ and dining hall were gone. And as they expected, many folks got sick. By mid week, RCCL started handing out hand sanitizer wipes. Does anyone know if they have since placed the hand sanitizer stations back on board?

 

Thanx,

Erika

[Rancher Dave]

My understanding is they have been pulled from all ships and are no longer standard display items. It has been reported elsewhere that part of the reason is they were giving folks a false sense of security when folks still need to use warm water and soap to really clean their hands. Too many with the sanatizers take a quick spirt and rub it only around part of the hand not really cleaning the hands well.

 

I wash my hands...and hope other cruisers do as well.

[Inshape]

When you think about it, that is so silly. That is what we were told too, but I am sure it is the $$$$$ spent on the wipes. Of course people should wash their hands after using the bathroom, but lets say they are walking around and run into the windjammer for a fast snack to take to the pool area--you think they just ran in to wash? No, and they are now touching every spoon and serving item there. Unless they allow only staff to serve even in WJ then they should put the wipes back especially there. I do not believe it to be as necessary in the cafe since you are handed your food on a plate. But then again, you do touch the silverware. I think it comes down to bottom line dollar spent.

[Jungle Jane]

When we were on FOTS a couple weeks ago they were handing out Purell wipes at the dining rooms every day.

[Granny J]

I was surprised that we did not see hand sanitizers as I had read that they were available. Even if I washed my hands before leaving my stateroom, we still had to touch elevator buttons, door handles, etc. And, as someone pointed out, we all touched the serving utensils, chair backs, etc. in the Windjammer. But I do have to say that I didn't get sick and I didn't hear of anyone getting sick.

[kittymom65]

Last week on the Mariner, the only place to get the wipes was the Windjammer, they had someone handing them out. None were available in the dining rooms, Chops, Portofino, or Cafe Promenade.

We carried our own small bottles of Purell around with us.

However, to my knowledge, no one was sick.

[mberli]

It's a joke. People who use the wipes or the sanitizer get sick because of the many people who don't care. Also, the children who go to the bathroom who don't bother to wash either.

Funny, but when you have service by the staff, as in the upscale cruises, there are less incidences of illness.

Mel

[MakinGold]

Here are the CDC guidelines. They recommend using hand sanitizers only when soap and water are not available.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/pub/Handwashing/HandwashingTips.htm

[Quampapetet]

I overheard a Windjammer staffer answer a couple who had asked what had happened to the hand sanitizers. She said it was because reports have said hand-washing is more effective and yadda yadda, as others have similarly reported on here in the past few weeks.

 

I always carry Purell with me, so it doesn't effect me. But I do think it is a good thing for them to have there because, like others said, even if somebody comes right from the bathroom (to wash their hands), they have still touched other surfaces including the serving utensils and tables and chairs and such. So, if you want Purell on your cruise, remember to bring it with you.

 

I didn't hear of any sickness on my cruise, by the way.

[LisaH]

We are just off the JOS (2/17) and there were no sanitizers anywhere. My husband and I got noro on the Island Princess in July and there WHERE sanitizers. From what I have read the sanitizers do NOT kill the noro virus.

 

One of the precuations I took was to NOT touch the tongs in the buffet with my bare hands, I either used a paper napkin or a regular napkin and did not use them again. Each time I went back to the buffet I used a new napkin of some sort or the other. You can only do so much but when you see people coughing, sneezing (or whatever) and then touching the tongs, it made me feel more comfortable to not have touched them. I know, I know...I touched other things but this was just one thing to do. You can't protect from everything.

[MakinGold]

I overheard a Windjammer staffer answer a couple who had asked what had happened to the hand sanitizers. She said it was because reports have said hand-washing is more effective and yadda yadda, as others have similarly reported on here in the past few weeks.

 

I always carry Purell with me, so it doesn't effect me. But I do think it is a good thing for them to have there because, like others said, even if somebody comes right from the bathroom (to wash their hands), they have still touched other surfaces including the serving utensils and tables and chairs and such. So, if you want Purell on your cruise, remember to bring it with you.

 

I didn't hear of any sickness on my cruise, by the way.

 

I don't think Royal Caribbean has had an "outbreak" since Liberty last Spring. (Of course, out of 3000+ people, there's always going to be some who are sick. They define an outbreak as 3% or more of passengers reporting GI illness.)

[hoop4321]

our family avoids all buffets due to the ick factor. The in laws loves them, so we get our plates, food, etc, then run to the restroom to wash our hands. We never touch the door handle for the rest room, always take a napkin with us, in case of hand dryers. We take airbourne when traveling, rarely get sick.

[Tex_Jen]

When you think about it, that is so silly. That is what we were told too, but I am sure it is the $$$$$ spent on the wipes. Of course people should wash their hands after using the bathroom, but lets say they are walking around and run into the windjammer for a fast snack to take to the pool area--you think they just ran in to wash? No, and they are now touching every spoon and serving item there. Unless they allow only staff to serve even in WJ then they should put the wipes back especially there. I do not believe it to be as necessary in the cafe since you are handed your food on a plate. But then again, you do touch the silverware. I think it comes down to bottom line dollar spent.

 

Actually, there are now well documented studies that show that even when you have 90-100% compliance with hand gel use, it does not decrease rates of infection in the hospital setting. Bottom line is that the best defense is washing hands with soap and water.

 

Jen

[cds2423]

We left Cape Liberty on Feb 3, Sunday, our first port was St. Maarten on Weds pm, they started handing out Purell wipes on Tues at all the food locations, ie Windjammer, Cafe Promenade and the dining rooms, i found the staff to be pretty diligent about handing them out, unfortunately this doesn't mean that everybody actually used them. I try not to think about the ick factor but it's pretty hard not to when you're standing in line at the W/J and the person next to you sneezes without covering up or even excusing themselves, it makes me wonder, i realize that there are germs everywhere but a little common sense goes a long way.

[broberts]

Wipes were available out at all food venues on Radiance last month. Personally I much prefer wipes to the liquid dispensers - faster lines and one can delay use until seated.

 

Staff were not always diligent in making sure that everyone took a wipe, but the wipes were always readily available for self service and most staff encouraged everyone to take a wipe.

 

I've often heard the argument that wipes/lotions may give people a false sense of security. I would argue just the opposite. Their presence I believe encourages awareness of the problem. Being more aware that sanitation is important may mean more hand washing, one hopes.

 

I have to say that one disappointment I had on Radiance was the distance between waste receptacles and exit doors in the public washrooms. (Wonderful washrooms, by the way, that were generally spotless.) I always like to open the door, when leaving, with the paper towel I used to dry my hands. Unfortunately disposing of the towel then became problematic.

 

I have this dream that one day I'll find a public washroom were I don't have to touch anything but a paper towel.

[MakinGold]

Wipes were available out at all food venues on Radiance last month. Personally I much prefer wipes to the liquid dispensers - faster lines and one can delay use until seated.

 

Staff were not always diligent in making sure that everyone took a wipe, but the wipes were always readily available for self service and most staff encouraged everyone to take a wipe.

 

I've often heard the argument that wipes/lotions may give people a false sense of security. I would argue just the opposite. Their presence I believe encourages awareness of the problem. Being more aware that sanitation is important may mean more hand washing, one hopes.

 

I have to say that one disappointment I had on Radiance was the distance between waste receptacles and exit doors in the public washrooms. (Wonderful washrooms, by the way, that were generally spotless.) I always like to open the door, when leaving, with the paper towel I used to dry my hands. Unfortunately disposing of the towel then became problematic.

 

I have this dream that one day I'll find a public washroom were I don't have to touch anything but a paper towel.

 

Then some study will manage to convince us that touching paper towels is bad for us, too, just to keep the paranoia level up.

[LisaH]

We left Cape Liberty on Feb 3, Sunday, our first port was St. Maarten on Weds pm, they started handing out Purell wipes on Tues at all the food locations, ie Windjammer, Cafe Promenade and the dining rooms, i found the staff to be pretty diligent about handing them out, unfortunately this doesn't mean that everybody actually used them. I try not to think about the ick factor but it's pretty hard not to when you're standing in line at the W/J and the person next to you sneezes without covering up or even excusing themselves, it makes me wonder, i realize that there are germs everywhere but a little common sense goes a long way.

 

That is why handling a tong with a napkin is helpful...

[tuff2]

We spoke with a waiter on Navigator about this and he said that the perception by RCCL is that people who don't wash with soap and water don't bother with the sanitizers either, so it was a waste of money and time.

[Gonzo70]

When you think about it, that is so silly. That is what we were told too, but I am sure it is the $$$$$ spent on the wipes.

 

Actually in this situation I don't think it is about the $$$$. The CDC no longer recommends them. Even when used properly, sanitizing gel is less effective than hand washing. Most people who use the gel do not use enough of it and do not rub it sufficiently throughout their hands for it to be effective. Furthermore the gel provides a false sense of security to many and they then wash their hands with soap and warm water less frequently.

[broberts]

We spoke with a waiter on Navigator about this and he said that the perception by RCCL is that people who don't wash with soap and water don't bother with the sanitizers either, so it was a waste of money and time.

 

That's an unfortunate belief. While it may in essence be true it ignores the fact that simply reducing the bacteria & viral population densities helps to reduce transmission opportunities.

 

Given how tight-lipped cruise lines are its doubtful that we will ever have the data to prove it, but my perception is that there have been far few reports of norovirus outbreaks on cruise ships in the last 8-12 months than in previous periods. If true, does this not suggest a direct inverse correlation between the (enforced) use of sanitation wipes and gels and outbreaks of norovirus?

 

Of course, there is also the thought that it may be more cost effective for a line to fore go this type of sanitation measure and accept the cost of occasional outbreaks. From a purely financial perspective this may well be true.

[Gonzo70]

Given how tight-lipped cruise lines are its doubtful that we will ever have the data to prove it, but my perception is that there have been far few reports of norovirus outbreaks on cruise ships in the last 8-12 months than in previous periods. If true, does this not suggest a direct inverse correlation between the (enforced) use of sanitation wipes and gels and outbreaks of norovirus?

 

The hand sanitzers were being used for for longer than the past 8-12 months, at least on some RCI ships; I remember them being there when I did my first cruise in '05.

[Eileen2]

We were on the Legend in December and there were no santizers available around any dining area entrance. It is correct that hand sanitizers are not meant to replace good handwashing but I feel because of the large number of passengers who handle the utensils sanitizers could cut down on passing on infections.

That said I noted a middleaged lady " test" the sauce by tasting twice with a spoon :eek: double dipping so to speak. I did inform the service personel but they did not remove the tub of sauce. We did not eat anything in the Windjammer after that and I did comment on it on the comment card.

[MakinGold]

That's an unfortunate belief. While it may in essence be true it ignores the fact that simply reducing the bacteria & viral population densities helps to reduce transmission opportunities.

 

Given how tight-lipped cruise lines are its doubtful that we will ever have the data to prove it, but my perception is that there have been far few reports of norovirus outbreaks on cruise ships in the last 8-12 months than in previous periods. If true, does this not suggest a direct inverse correlation between the (enforced) use of sanitation wipes and gels and outbreaks of norovirus?

 

Of course, there is also the thought that it may be more cost effective for a line to fore go this type of sanitation measure and accept the cost of occasional outbreaks. From a purely financial perspective this may well be true.

 

The CDC maintains records that are publicly available about cruise ship illness outbreaks. RCI doesn't seem to be enforcing use of hand sanitizers, but Royal Caribbean and Celebrity each have only one recorded outbreak in the last 12 months. Other lines:

 

Carnival - 2

HAL - 5

NCL - 6

Princess - 3

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/GIlist.htm

 

Some years are higher or lower, but there is no clear trend over the past few years. BTW, my earlier info was slightly off. I mentioned that 3% of passengers is the trigger for documenting an outbreak. It's actually 2% (of passengers/crew).

[Ephraim]

Hand sanitizers are anti-bacterial, not anti-viral. They do nothing against the noro-virus... because it's a virus. Even the CDC says so on their website. They are suggested as only a supplement to hand washing.

 

The hand sanitizers are strictly there to ease people's minds, psychologically.

 

If the cruise lines want to change this what they need to do is to install sinks with soap as you enter, so people can see the sinks and have to walk through them to get beyond. They need to stop using salt shakers. They need to have people use the sinks AGAIN once people have taken their food since contaminated hands have touched the serving handles or to have items served by a server instead.

 

Anything less than that.. won't work. You can keep on thinking that hand sanitizers do something... but they don't. The CDC say so, the cruise line says so and WHO says so. You might as well just not bother washing at all. It has ZERO effect on noro virus.

[mad-dog74]

I have done extensive research on germs. I worked as a complaince specialist for a few years and one thing we concentrated on was preventing cross contamination of germs.

 

To those of you who are scared to go into bathrooms, for the most part they are cleaner than your office! Why? Because bathrooms get cleaned on a regular basis. How many people actually sanitize their keyboards, telephones, copiers, etc. If you dont believe me, stop what you are doing right now and turn your keyboard upside down and tap it gently on the desk to see what falls out.

 

Studies show that there are more germs on a steering wheel than on the average toilet seat. Also, you should put the toilet seat down before flushing because during the flush, bacteria can become airborne and contamiate your toothbrush.

 

Hand santizers do work, but tehy only offer temporary protection until you can wash your hadns with hot soapy water for 30 seconds. I always have santizier available to use but never consider my hands clean until wash them. Studies also show that plain soap like Ivory or Dove is just as effective as anti-bacterial soaps.

 

When it comes to germs, I would be more afraid to set on a chair in the stateroom or the comforter that I would the toilet.

 

I think you just need to practice caution and use good judgment. Dont put your hands in your mouth., pick your nose, etc. Keep your hands clean and wash them regularly.

 

I dont want to rant, but "germ-o-phobes" kill me. Germs are everywhere... (even on the lemon slices that were mentioned last week). I have hand sanitizers in my car, I teach my kids to wash their hands, use airborne when traveling. I even have UV sterilizers on my heat pumps. But, I am not afraid of door knobs and carry napkins around with me.