What a Shame! Casual Dress in Ocean Liners.

[Full of Spirit]

I don't understand why someone would go to a restaurant like Ocean Liners or Olympic and not "Dress" just as you would at an upscale land based restaurant. The cruise lines are going to have to keep SOME dress guidlines because if they go so called "CASUAL" this will be a disaster, some folks push the envelope as it is as far as dressing is concerned.

 

Celebrity has made it very clear in all of their current documentation that the dress for the specialty restaurant shall match the dress of the evening. So on casual evenings I'm hardpressed to understand what your complaint could possibly be since someone dressed casually has conformed to the requirements set forth by the host (Celebrity) of the evening. As far as the rules of etiquette are concerned it is equally rude to overdress for an event as it is to underdress. So in pure and simple terms if you choose to wear a suit to a casual dress dinner then you have actually offended the host and the other guests.

 

Please book your cruise on a line that has the dress codes written the way you like it,no problem,you have a choice.

 

I guess this means you as well since you disagree with the rule of wearing casual clothes on casual evenings.

[JCDeck]

Or we could try and change to code on this one:D

 

You also have a choice, this is a two way street.

 

You are right I have a choice. I read the material and make an informed choice,then I follow the guidelines of the cruise ship I have chosen. You're right two way street and I am traveling in the SAME direction as the cruiselines guidelines. Thank you very much.

[JCDeck]

Celebrity has made it very clear in all of their current documentation that the dress for the specialty restaurant shall match the dress of the evening. So on casual evenings I'm hardpressed to understand what your complaint could possibly be since someone dressed casually has conformed to the requirements set forth by the host (Celebrity) of the evening. As far as the rules of etiquette are concerned it is equally rude to overdress for an event as it is to underdress. So in pure and simple terms if you choose to wear a suit to a casual dress dinner then you have actually offended the host and the other guests.

 

 

 

I guess this means you as well since you disagree with the rule of wearing casual clothes on casual evenings.

 

Would you mind telling me where i said I disagree with wearing the dress for the evening? No it is not just as rude to overdress than to underdress. When in doubt ALWAYS over dress.

[Full of Spirit]

You are right I have a choice. I read the material and make an informed choice,then I follow the guidelines of the cruise ship I have chosen. You're right two way street and I am traveling in the SAME direction as the cruiselines guidelines. Thank you very much.

BUT if you wear a suit on casual evening then you are not following the guidelines. A sports jacket with a shirt and no tie would be perfectly acceptable for a casual evening if you insist upon wearing a jacket.

[JCDeck]

Yeah, I can see how it's just killing Oceania!! Business Casual 24/7. I would wager, service, food, ambience far exceeds Celebrity.

 

Who said it was killing them? I just posted about making informed choices,when DH and myself went on OCEANA it was because that's what we wanted for that cruise. Read my post,not what you think I said. Besides when I was on Oceania,just about everyone dress beautifully,whole different level of casual. Have you ever been on OCEANIA? It would be Country Club Casual.

[Full of Spirit]

No it is not just as rude to overdress than to underdress. When in doubt ALWAYS over dress.

 

Yes it is rude.

 

I agree with when in doubt, but, once again if you are in doubt of your casual clothes go to a sports jacket with no tie versus a business suit.

 

If my daughter has a casual wedding on the beach would you wear dark suit just because it was a wedding? You would stand out like a sore thumb and I as the father of the bride and the host of the evening would end up coming up to you and requesting the you remove your jacket and tie so as to fit in with the ambience of the evening. Been there and done it.

[JCDeck]

BUT if you wear a suit on casual evening then you are not following the guidelines. A sports jacket with a shirt and no tie would be perfectly acceptable for a casual evening if you insist upon wearing a jacket.

 

Any time I've ever dined in Olympic on Millie, Prago on Crystal symphony a jacket has been required. If this has been changed that is one thing but there are many people who take the casual thing to a new low(Reason it was discontinued in our law office on fridays). One man's casual is another man's Slobual.... and I don't care to see it, that is why I READ the literature and make an informed choice. no one ever mentioned anyone wearing a tie on a casual evening but a jacket would be lovely. Please read my post,before you give me a hit. Key Phrase "land based restuarant.

[JCDeck]

Yes it is rude.

 

I agree with when in doubt, but, once again if you are in doubt of your casual clothes go to a sports jacket with no tie versus a business suit.

 

If my daughter has a casual wedding on the beach would you wear dark suit just because it was a wedding? You would stand out like a sore thumb and I as the father of the bride and the host of the evening would end up coming up to you and requesting the you remove your jacket and tie so as to fit in with the ambience of the evening. Been there and done it.

 

You keep talking about suits,who said suits. it is never rude to dress well. A navy blazer at beach wedding...beautiful!

[Full of Spirit]

Besides when I was on Oceania,just about everyone dress beautifully,whole different level of casual. Have you ever been on OCEANIA? It would be Country Club Casual.

 

So what you are saying is that you don't feel Celebrity's clientel are as capable of dressing themselves country club casual as Oceania's passengers are? Somehow I doubt that.

 

Its funny that I have read all these posts about t-shirts and jeans in the dining room yet not once have I observed that situation other than on Century doing the 4 and 5 day trips from Miami. This is where it is truly expected since they advertise these trips in South Florida as a gambling junket and fill up with passengers who could care less about the traditions of wearing a suit to dinner.

[JCDeck]

So what you are saying is that you don't feel Celebrity's clientel are as capable of dressing themselves country club casual as Oceania's passengers are? Somehow I doubt that.

 

Its funny that I have read all these posts about t-shirts and jeans in the dining room yet not once have I observed that situation other than on Century doing the 4 and 5 day trips from Miami. This is where it is truly expected since they advertise these trips in South Florida as a gambling junket and fill up with passengers who could care less about the traditions of wearing a suit to dinner.

 

No, I just think there is a difference between Business Casual and Country club casual...... Country club casual being a little more fun, Just clarifying I'm not the one who stated Business casual.....you were.

I live in Florida and I have never seen a cruise on the Century advertised as a "Gambling Junket" they have ships just for that and if they ever do advertise that they better get a bigger casino with 1800 pax on board!

[Cruise Junky]

Who said it was killing them? I just posted about making informed choices,when DH and myself went on OCEANA it was because that's what we wanted for that cruise. Read my post,not what you think I said. Besides when I was on Oceania,just about everyone dress beautifully,whole different level of casual. Have you ever been on OCEANIA? It would be Country Club Casual.

 

I didn't say you said it was killing them. You actually said it would be "A Disaster". I'm merely pointing out that it's doing very well for Oceania. And I think you'll find that Country Club Casual and Business Casual are the same thing. Collared shirts, jackets, slacks. Skirts, dresses, pantsuits for women. Jeans don't fit into either one of those terms.

 

This original thread was a complaint that people were wearing "Casual" to the specialty restaurants. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, they are following Celebrity's dress code. If anyone is not happy with Celebrity's dress code then either complain directly to them or move to another line. You cannot blame the people wearing polo shirts or look down your nose at them (I'm not saying you).

[JCDeck]

Rich,

 

I agree completely. I think it is extremely rude and offensive to call people slobs because they dress casually on a Celebrity designated casual night.

 

Personally, I don't care if people overdress on casual nights but, according to one of the strictest dress code purists who ever posted here (Rev 22:17), overdressing is as bad socially as underdressing. Responding to a message saying it was alright to overdress, he said:

 

"The norms of social etiquette dictate that the guests at a social function are to wear the attire prescribed by the host(ess). On a cruise ship, the host(ess) is the master of the vessel. Failure to do so is exceedingly gauche, rude, ill-mannered, and inconsiderate.

 

And you may think otherwise, but that principle applies every bit as much to overdressing as to underdressing. IOW, it's every bit as crass to show up for dinner in a business suit on a "casual" evening as it is to show up in "casual" attire on a "formal' evening."

 

Interesting observation. :D

 

Dave

 

You are correct but sometimes people do dress inappropriately not a huge amount but some and it is very noticeable or it wouldn't be such a hot button issue. Casual is one thing but taking it below that is another. it would be interesting to see people defend formal or informal with such vigor.

[JCDeck]

I didn't say you said it was killing them. You actually said it would be "A Disaster". I'm merely pointing out that it's doing very well for Oceania. And I think you'll find that Country Club Casual and Business Casual are the same thing. Collared shirts, jackets, slacks. Skirts, dresses, pantsuits for women. Jeans don't fit into either one of those terms.

 

This original thread was a complaint that people were wearing "Casual" to the specialty restaurants. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, they are following Celebrity's dress code. If anyone is not happy with Celebrity's dress code then either complain directly to them or move to another line. You cannot blame the people wearing polo shirts or look down your nose at them (I'm not saying you).

 

Never said anything about a disaster for Oceania, said disaster would be to have NO guidelines of dress on a ship. I never even mentioned Oceania originally. No guidelines would be disasterous. IMHO

[JCDeck]

I didn't say you said it was killing them. You actually said it would be "A Disaster". I'm merely pointing out that it's doing very well for Oceania. And I think you'll find that Country Club Casual and Business Casual are the same thing. Collared shirts, jackets, slacks. Skirts, dresses, pantsuits for women. Jeans don't fit into either one of those terms.

 

This original thread was a complaint that people were wearing "Casual" to the specialty restaurants. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, they are following Celebrity's dress code. If anyone is not happy with Celebrity's dress code then either complain directly to them or move to another line. You cannot blame the people wearing polo shirts or look down your nose at them (I'm not saying you).

 

My original post just said it would be nice if people followed the same principals as when they go to a land based restaurant.Working as I do in a buttoned up law office Business casual and country club casual are NOT the same. When we dinner at the country club here the dress is a little,little more glitzy as on casual fridays in the office (Which have been stopped for some of the reasons discussed here) Just saying some people interpret things (casual dress)differently than others and that at times causes problems.

[Xcruiser]

We asked the Ocean Liners staff about this. Apparently they are still using the supply of reservation cards that reflect the prior dress code of jackets required for men. The new policy is, indeed, whatever the dress code is for the ship that night. If it's casual dress that night, then that is what is accepted in the specialty restaurants, regardless of what it says on the reservation card.

While I don’t disagree that is what they told you but why would the Maitre’D on Millie make the point of circling the “Jacket required” instead of crossing it out before handing the reservation to me?:confused:

 

In addition the old Dress code for all specialty restaurants on the M-Class ships was I believe Formal every night regardless of the evening dress code. Why would the confirmations card I got for Ocean Liners last March read (Formal nights a tie & suit, dinner jacket or tuxedo required) and not all nights?:confused:

 

This change was made over a year ago now and I would think they would have run out of old cards by now.

[Cruise Junky]

Never said anything about a disaster for Oceania, said disaster would be to have NO guidelines of dress on a ship. I never even mentioned Oceania originally. No guidelines would be disasterous. IMHO

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCDeck

The cruise lines are going to have to keep SOME dress guidlines because if they go so called "CASUAL" this will be a disaster, some folks push the envelope as it is as far as dressing is concerned. If you down grade the dress across the board there WILL be ripped jeans and tees.

 

 

You actually said it would be a disaster to go casual.

 

I do think we're talking two different things here. There's Casual and there's business casual/country club casual. We have "Casual Fridays" at work which do include jeans. But Monday - Thursday is business casual, slacks, collared shirts etc. (and I work in the banking industry which is just as tight a*&) ;) I believe Celebrity's definition of Casual is the latter.

 

Casual Night Attire

Ladies: Pantsuit or sporty outfit

Gentlemen: Sport shirt and slacks

 

Other than Celebrity, is there any other mainstream line that still has "informal" night? I know HAL dropped it last year...and please, I'm not asking this to prove a point, I am curious.

[jasm8449]

Cruise Junky....let me try one more time. In my original post I was not complaining that people were wearing casual attire on casual nights. I was expressing my disappointment that Ocean Liners now follows the dress code on the ship, casual nights included. I was expressing my disappointment that this change meant that people were now wearing very casual attire in Ocean Liners, which for ME, brought down the atmosphere of fine dining in an upscale venue. I understand that the casual dressers were not contravening the dress code. I am disappointed that Ocean Liners has changed its dress code requirements. Any chance I've gotten through to you about my personal opinion?

[Cruise Junky]

Cruise Junky....let me try one more time. In my original post I was not complaining that people were wearing casual attire on casual nights. I was expressing my disappointment that Ocean Liners now follows the dress code on the ship, casual nights included. I was expressing my disappointment that this change meant that people were now wearing very casual attire in Ocean Liners, which for ME, brought down the atmosphere of fine dining in an upscale venue. I understand that the casual dressers were not contravening the dress code. I am disappointed that Ocean Liners has changed its dress code requirements. Any chance I've gotten through to you about my personal opinion?

 

"quite a few were in decidedly casual dress...Hawaiian shirts, short sleeved polos, etc. I have to admit it that it was a somewhat of a letdown, at least for me"

 

You were letdown by people following the dress code. Did I miss anything? On a 7 day cruise you have four nights where people won't be dressed casually, book then and let the 3 casual night people be. It's not that Ocean Liners has gone completely casual, they are now fitting in with the attire of the entire ship. Just book on a formal or informal night. I don't get the complaint.

[JCDeck]

Please go to... ASKANDYABOUTCLOTHES.COM

 

Sub title "cracking the casual code" very informative.

 

I do think it would be disasterous for the line sto go casual as some people translate casual as SLOBual, no if's ands or buts about it. To go Casual...

Smart casual, business casual,countryclub casual, street casual, beach casual,saturday afternoon casual,sporty casual?????

 

Andy also tells us on his etiqeutte site ALWAYS better to dress UP rather than dress Down.

[JCDeck]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCDeck

The cruise lines are going to have to keep SOME dress guidlines because if they go so called "CASUAL" this will be a disaster, some folks push the envelope as it is as far as dressing is concerned. If you down grade the dress across the board there WILL be ripped jeans and tees.

 

 

You actually said it would be a disaster to go casual.

 

you're right and I do.

 

I do think we're talking two different things here. There's Casual and there's business casual/country club casual. We have "Casual Fridays" at work which do include jeans. But Monday - Thursday is business casual, slacks, collared shirts etc. (and I work in the banking industry which is just as tight a*&) ;) I believe Celebrity's definition of Casual is the latter.

 

Casual Night Attire

Ladies: Pantsuit or sporty outfit

Gentlemen: Sport shirt and slacks

 

Other than Celebrity, is there any other mainstream line that still has "informal" night? I know HAL dropped it last year...and please, I'm not asking this to prove a point, I am curious.

 

Yes, I know crystal does but I think they are changing the term to Semiformal because some find it confusing.

[JCDeck]

The rule of allowing casual applied on our cruise and we never ever saw anyone dressed casually in Ocean liners. We chose casual nights deliberately as we "dont do casual" EVER! so we like to dine in OL on casual nights and dress up.

In saying that, I really dont think one will ever find that many book OL and dont dress to a nice standard. Those that do:eek: (ah..let them get on with it!) He/She/They, will no doubt stand out like a sore thumb and be in the minority.

No matter what the "rules" say, its just bad manners and poor etiquette to dine in a fine dining establishment be it on a ship or on land, dressed in "casual" dress. Personally, I would rather be a "snob" than a "slob", but if anyone wants to slob..go ahead.. it wouldnt stop my enjoyment of an evening. I wonder who would received the better service:rolleyes:

I do however think these forums show a tiny percentage of what actually happens on ship, and if people have paid extra for fine dining, then they more often than not, will want to enjoy the full ambience of their evening. I cant see there being much change.:)

 

Can I cruise with you?:D

[DaveFr]

While I don’t disagree that is what they told you but why would the Maitre’D on Millie make the point of circling the “Jacket required” instead of crossing it out before handing the reservation to me?:confused:

Only the Maitre'D can truely answer your question. However, since the dress code policy had changed only three months before your cruise last March, maybe he was unaware of the change or, more likely, he did not like the change and unilaterally ignored the new dress code policy.

 

In addition the old Dress code for all specialty restaurants on the M-Class ships was I believe Formal every night regardless of the evening dress code. Why would the confirmations card I got for Ocean Liners last March read (Formal nights a tie & suit, dinner jacket or tuxedo required) and not all nights?:confused:

The old dress code for the specialty restaurants was not Formal every night. The dress code for the Olympic Restaurant on my Millennium cruise in November 2006 was: "Jacket required. (Formal nights a tie & suit, dinner jacket or tuxedo is required.)."

 

Dave

[Xcruiser]

Only the Maitre'D can truely answer your question. However, since the dress code policy had changed only three months before your cruise last March, maybe he was unaware of the change or, more likely, he did not like the change and unilaterally ignored the new dress code policy.

 

The old dress code for the specialty restaurants was not Formal every night. The dress code for the Olympic Restaurant on my Millennium cruise in November 2006 was: "Jacket required. (Formal nights a tie & suit, dinner jacket or tuxedo is required.)."

 

Dave

Thanks Dave, I was at the Specialty Restaurants on Infinity and Summit in 2004 and I seemed to recall tie’s & jacket being a requirement but I don’t have anything to reference on that so I’ll take your word for it.

 

The Maitre’D that circled the Jacket required was on my last cruise on Millie in January not on Connie last March. Also I recall seeing a post from someone I believe it was on Millie within the last few weeks that said her husband was asked to return with a Jacket on a causal night at the Olympic.

 

Ether way it’s a very formal setting and I would not feel right without a Jacket at the very least, JMO.

[Drew B]

I don't have any problem with them changing the policy to allow casual dress on nights designated as casual nights. If people comply with the rules, they have satisfied me.

 

I'm curious, though, why people make such a big issue of the difference between "acceptable" casual dress and jeans or shorts. I think that casual may as well include jeans or shorts. Of course, I don't advocate wearing them if they are forbidden, but I don't understand the ban. Jeans would be more appropriate as casual garb than a dark suit or trousers and a "sparkly top" would be as formal wear...

[claud925]

To the (brand new) poster who commented that she had seen tees and jeans worn only once in an X dining room -- may I ask how many X cruises you've sailed on? Because it occurs more often than you might think. I suggest you read some more threads on the subject. They are posted by cruisers who have had much more experience in these matters, I promise you.

 

I don't understand how anyone could enter such a beautiful venue as the specialty restaurants found on X ships in anything other than (at the very least) a jacket? I don't care what the official guidelines are that X recently announced -- which BTW, I cannot believe they would relax to the degree some posters here are claiming.

 

Come on, people, have some common sense here. You are greeted at the entrance by a maitre d' in a tuxedo. This alone should give some sort of clue as to the dining experience that you're in for. Why on earth would one make the effort to dine in a special venue under special conditions (and pay extra for) and NOT make some sort of special effort in one's appearance?:confused: Who doesn't want to look good? Is it not true that when you look good, you feel good?

 

I'm with JCDeck in this entire "attire" discussion.:) I happen to have sailed with her in the past and, knowing how many lines she's cruised on and how often she has sailed (sorry, Jenn, dear - don't mean to give your age away), she's dead-on in her observations.