Coastal Renaissance.

[Putterdude]

Well you have me stumped because I can remember the road from Langdale thru Gibsons and on up to Sechelt. The boat could have been the Smokwa though. I am going to have to ask some of the oldtimers down at the golf club just as soon as seniors golf starts again towards the end of the month.

 

I know that there has always been a dock in Gibsons and I can remember tying up to the dock on Georgia Strait (or should we start calling it the "Salish Sea") here in Sechelt at least twice in the early to mid 60's before it got blown away(now it is just a small pedestrian kind of pier on the strait end of Wharf St.). You can still see the reminents of the pier at Roberts Creek, there is a pier at Davis Bay and the SCRD took over the pier at Halfmoon Bay and it is in good shape as is the pier on the inlet here in Sechelt. We are just waiting for the "Daddy Boats" to return.

[bcscot]

Were those old open ended ferries anything like the San Francisco Bay ferries that can still be seen at the Maritime Museums in San Diego & San Francisco?

 

I am sorry to hear that the Queen of Saanich is up for sale. She was my first BC Ferry & I still often cross on her in the summer. She has character & it is great to feel that you are sailing on a 40+ year old 'classic' ship.

 

The Queen of Sidney was sold to a logging company. Does anyone know what happened to her after that? Putterdude, can you identify the old BC Ferry that you mentioned is still being used as a fishing lodge in the bay? Is that something like the Canadian Princess in Ucluelet?

 

Graham.

[Putterdude]

Putterdude, can you identify the old BC Ferry that you mentioned is still being used as a fishing lodge in the bay? Is that something like the Canadian Princess in Ucluelet?

 

No I can't say I can but I will look the next time I am over there, we live on the Georgia Strait side looking out on Trail Bay and the Trail Islands. However she is a smaller open end ship that must have come off a minor Gulf Island or perhaps the Buckley Bay, Denman, Hornby Island run. I suspect that she may currently owned by Mountain Marine Transportation but I can check on that as well.

[Urban trekker]

Hey gang - try this link - it shows what has happened to many of the old coastal ferries:

 

http://www.geocities.com/ferries_bc/retired_profiles.html

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[Putterdude]

That is a great find!

[Putterdude]

I got bored this afternoon so drove over to Porpoise Bay to look at the old ferry tied up over there and I confess I was puzzled for a while; she has a new livery of green, white and rust but the same blue funnels and bore the name R.J. Breadner. On further investigation it seems that she is the old Albert J. Savoie that was built in Vancouver by Allied Shipyards in 1961. From what I have been able to glean the Savoie was typically on one of the northern Gulf Island routes and in 1981 was placed on the Texada Is. run which makes me wonder if she was built for the Highways Department when they used to operate some of those small island routes as well as the Powell River/Little River route. She evidently had some sisters including the Nimpkish which is still in service. When the Savoie was sold by the Ferry Corp. she went to a logging company. The Breadner is now owned by Mountain Marine Transportation here is Sechelt and has a very large opening cut in her port side at the car deck level which looks like it is there for tendering. Evidently they have also added a large ramp on her bow for some reason but I was unable to see that as she was tied up stern first. I will make some inquiries as to what they are using her for.

[bcscot]

Thank you Dennis for that link. It is full of interesting information. It is amazing how many ferries there have been in these waters.

 

A nice bit of detective work there Putterdude. I wonder how many of these old 'retired' ferries are still around.

 

The big cruise ships have all the glamour but the everyday workhorse ferries still have a lot of character & a charm of their own. They are so important to the history of the area & it is hard not to form a bond with them when you sail on them year after year. Besides, I have had as many beautiful days on BC Ferries as I have had on cruises to Alaska!

 

Graham.

[Putterdude]

Well I think there are more than we would first think per that list that UT has found and I as said in an earlier post there are few that are being used as floating fishing camps. I will have to my son who is with the Ferry Corp what he has seen up in the QCI’s and up around Prince Rupert because he used to guide up there. I happened to find a site today than appeared to be a board for retired Ferry employees who alluded to the fact that there were other retired ferries around the coast and yet still others that they hadn’t seen for awhile, but now I can’t find the site again. Who would have thought the Savoie would have turned up in Sechelt.

[bcscot]

Does anyone know anything about the history of the Canadian Princess, currently being used as a fishing resort over at Ucluelet?

 

Graham.

[Urban trekker]

Courtesy of a google search here is a link to the history of the Canadian Princess:

 

http://www.canadianprincess.com/resort/history/

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[bcscot]

Thank you Dennis. Now 1932, that is an old ship. I wonder what she would be like to stay on. I enjoyed a one night stay on the Queen Mary in Long Beach last year. For me the history shone through the dilapidation. At least some of these old vessels are still around to experience if not to sail on (easier to experience than the Titanic anyway - although the exhibition in Victoria last year was very interesting!).

 

Graham.

[Putterdude]

Thank you Dennis. Now 1932, that is an old ship. I wonder what she would be like to stay on. I enjoyed a one night stay on the Queen Mary in Long Beach last year. For me the history shone through the dilapidation. At least some of these old vessels are still around to experience if not to sail on (easier to experience than the Titanic anyway - although the exhibition in Victoria last year was very interesting!).

 

Graham.

 

Yes I have read the mixed reviews on the hotel component of the QM but as you say it must have been interesting. We toured around the prominade deck of her and the shops and restaurants when we were there in December and found it all quite facinating. No deck chair hogs though, you rented them, and now we complain about the charge for sodas and ice cream.

[scottbee]

scottbee; are you quite certain that there was not a fourth ship that got the stretch and lift, I think BC Ferries kind of alludes to a fourth on their website? However you are quite right when I think of it the Queen of Burnaby does of the mezzanine car deck with the flop down extra mezzanine so it would not have been lifted when stretched.

 

The website someone referenced does show that the QoVictoria (along w/ Vancouver/Saanich/Esquimalt) was also given the lift & stretch, so indeed you're right. What's odd, and I can't figure out how it would be different is that the QoVictoria had a lower capacity for vehicles. Perhaps the Victoria didn't have the drop-down decks on the lower veh deck which the other three have. The Victoria is/was recently broken up for scrap in India There's a wealth of knowledge at the site http://www.westcoastferries.ca/ and click on their discussion forums. I also found this

good history of all the V and B class boats... http://www.flickr.com/groups/bcferry/discuss/72157600342949326/

 

As for the QoBurnaby (aka Vancouver Island Princess III when she served Victoria-Seattle) yes, it's just a main deck, with mezz, but hasn't been lifted like the big 4 were/are and hence is single ramp loaded.

 

BTW, did you see the news of the new fares today? $43 veh + $13 passenger <ugh>.

[Putterdude]

We are going to Courtenay via Powell River tomorrow morning so I will be on the QoT and the QoB. I will check for "stretch marks" on the QoB.

[bcscot]

What's odd, and I can't figure out how it would be different is that the QoVictoria had a lower capacity for vehicles. Perhaps the Victoria didn't have the drop-down decks on the lower veh deck which the other three have.

 

This could be the case. It is the case with the Queen of Alberni which has the same hull size as the Queens of Cowichan & Coquitlam, but has a smaller superstructure & no drop-down decks.

 

Thank you for the interesting links.

 

I sailed on the Queen of Coquitlam today & met the Coastal Renaissance going the other way. She certainly presents a tall profile. She is a sort of a sailing billboard at the moment; a bit like a bus!

 

Graham.

[c-to-sea]

At the risk of opening this thread wide and getting flamed, I am going to

post some figures that relate to ferry fares.

 

In 1960, the fares were $2.00/passenger and $5.00/car = $7.00

Statscan shows the average annual wage in 1960 was $3192.00 per annum.

 

In 2008, the fares are going to be $13.00/passenger and $43.00/car = $56.00

Statscan shows the average annual wage for 2007 as $38844.00 per annum.

 

Using these numbers, the average hourly wage in 1960 was about $1.60

and in 2007 it was about $19.00.

 

In 1960, one would have had to work for 4.4 hours to pay for a ferry ride.

 

In 2007, one would have had to work for 2.95 hours to pay for the same ride.

 

Also interesting is that a fare quote for a 2 1/2 hour ride from Dover to Calais

across the English Channel for a car and driver, one-way is £120. At about

$240.00, it would take 12.6 hours to pay for this trip.

[scottbee]

Also interesting is that a fare quote for a 2 1/2 hour ride from Dover to Calais

across the English Channel for a car and driver, one-way is £120. At about

$240.00, it would take 12.6 hours to pay for this trip.

 

It's also interesting to note that Route 1 (SWB-TSW) makes approx 25% pure profit (close to $750k/week) which is used to provide approx 1/3 of all the subsidies to the other routes. The residents and visitors of Victoria (95% of Route 1 traffic) end up subsidizing other users of the ferry system. Not cool in my mind.

[Urban trekker]

"Not cool in my mind."

 

Doubt if Putterdude would agree with you since he travels on some of those heavily subsidized routes.

 

Much like the bus system within the City of Vancouver - makes money as 55% of all travel on the entire Translink system is in the City proper - yet we continue to have fare increases to pay for the little used suburban runs etc.

 

Putterdude - if you are talking to your son - can you ask him what's up with the Queen of New West - it's currently in drydock in North Vancouver - being ripped apart - abestos removal etc - a friend working on the project says it is being redone to be used as back up replacement vessel - as one of the older vessels in the fleet why would they be upgrading it when with the arrival of the new vessels they should have some of the bigger vessels available for relief work.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[bcscot]

I have always thought that the BC Ferries were very good value compared to the English Channel ferries. I also always thought that the whole system was heavily subsidised.

 

Using the busier routes to subsidise the quieter routes is just how you provide a national transit system is it not?

 

Graham.

[Putterdude]

Just back this afternoon from Courtenay after a great Easter weekend. Things that I learned and observed …. the venerable old Queen of Tsawwassen won’t be gone until towards the end of the year. She will finish up as the replacement ship on the Earls Cove/ Saltery Bay route until towards the end of the month and then she moves over the to the Powell River (ok Westview) /Little River route for four weeks while the Queen of Burnaby is in for a refit. In May she will be returned to the Earls Cove / Saltery Bay run replacing the Queen of Chilliwack which of course goes to the northern milk run. She will likely be paid off in the fall and the reason I am told that she is being pressed into service is that her replacement is delayed in the yards. She has a new coat of paint on her hull but that is about it. She is kind of a sorry sight. Her promenade deck has had the rust chipped so many times I am sure it is paper thin. Her carpeting is of another era, remember the “dogwood flower trim” she has it and it is threadbare. I doubt that she has had any significant upgrades in years and years. By the way she only has the one aluminum mezzanine deck (I was wrong on the 2nd one that drops) and the load was sufficient that they had to use the mez. deck on Friday going up. She has double paned windows but unless you are looking out the window directly in front of you, you get a distorted view out of them, I have noticed this before and wonder if they are convex windows?

The Queen of Burnaby on the other hand appears in terrific shape by comparison to her 5 year older sister. I doubt that she was ever lifted or stretched. She does have the aluminum mezzanine deck on either side with the additional mezzanine deck that they can flip down. Her interior décor is a bit dated and sterile but she has a “stout ship bearing” about her. She is probably underutilized on the Powell River/Comox route but I guess they do need a fair sized ship on that run as it can get pretty nasty out there. I checked her registration papers and the plaque given her by the City of Burnaby upon her Maiden Voyage and would appear that she was christened as the Q of B so Scottbee I am curious about the other name.

[Putterdude]

"Not cool in my mind."

 

Doubt if Putterdude would agree with you since he travels on some of those heavily subsidized routes.

 

Much like the bus system within the City of Vancouver - makes money as 55% of all travel on the entire Translink system is in the City proper - yet we continue to have fare increases to pay for the little used suburban runs etc.

 

Putterdude - if you are talking to your son - can you ask him what's up with the Queen of New West - it's currently in drydock in North Vancouver - being ripped apart - abestos removal etc - a friend working on the project says it is being redone to be used as back up replacement vessel - as one of the older vessels in the fleet why would they be upgrading it when with the arrival of the new vessels they should have some of the bigger vessels available for relief work.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

 

As to the fares; yes, that is quite a hot topic up here on the Sunshine Coast. One thing to remember unlike Vancouver Island communities, we are absolutely dependent up the ferry service, when we go into town it is out of necessity. We have goods and services for our day to day needs but for anything more we have to go into Vancouver. Examples would be to see medical specialists, up until this year CT Scans (we went out and bought our own scanner) MRI’s, a lot of surgeries, cancer treatment and alike. In fairness our fares are paid for by MSP for the aforementioned trips. However you can’t buy a suit up here, a good pair of shoes, nor do we have a decent selection of furniture and appliances to choose from. Our trips into town generally include a trip to Costco, Home Depot, Revy, Staples and dare I mention Michaels? I also glean from a acquaintance of mine of is an outspoken member of the local Ferries Advisory Committee that the Horseshoe Bay/Langdale run does operate in the black and is a contributor to the bottom line of the Ferry Corp, however I don't know that for a fact.

 

Yes I will ask my son if he knows what is up with the Queen of New Westminster, if not I guess we could just phone Deb. Marshall, she is pretty approachable and I also serve on a commitee with a fellow who is on the BOD of the Ferry Corp and maybe he will know.

[Putterdude]

This could be the case. It is the case with the Queen of Alberni which has the same hull size as the Queens of Cowichan & Coquitlam, but has a smaller superstructure & no drop-down decks.

 

Thank you for the interesting links.

 

I sailed on the Queen of Coquitlam today & met the Coastal Renaissance going the other way. She certainly presents a tall profile. She is a sort of a sailing billboard at the moment; a bit like a bus!

 

Graham.

 

I believe that the Queen of Alberni is different as I recall that she was designed and built mainly for the transportation of trucks and trailers to supply Vancouver Island. The Cowichan, Coquitalm, Surrey and Oak Bay are considered sisterships but the Surrey (darn it, why didn't they name it the Queen of Langley) has different engines which makes her about a knot slower than her sisters and that is why we have her on the Sunshine Coast route; she can't make up lost time on the other longer routes.

[scottbee]

I doubt that she was ever lifted or stretched. She does have the aluminum mezzanine deck on either side with the additional mezzanine deck that they can flip down. Her interior décor is a bit dated and sterile but she has a “stout ship bearing” about her. She is probably underutilized on the Powell River/Comox route but I guess they do need a fair sized ship on that run as it can get pretty nasty out there. I checked her registration papers and the plaque given her by the City of Burnaby upon her Maiden Voyage and would appear that she was christened as the Q of B so Scottbee I am curious about the other name.

 

I'm pretty sure the QoB got the same stretch job as the V class boats, it just never received the the lift. As for the other name "Princess Marguerite III" (I had thought it was the VI Princess, but now that I think back she was the MaggieIII) for a few years, she was leased to clipper Navigation to operate a Victoria-Seattle car ferry after the Princess Marguerite was scrapped.

 

After that route finally died, she came back into the fleet as the QoBurnaby again.

[Urban trekker]

In case any of you are following the progress of the second new ship - the Coastal Inspiration she is currently in the Strait of Juan de Fuca - almost off of Victoria and is expected to arrive in Nanaimo tomorrow - she will go into service on the Duke Point run later in the summer. As the Duke Point run is more geared for trucks etc I wonder if she is configured differently that the other new ships.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[Putterdude]

As the Duke Point run is more geared for trucks etc I wonder if she is configured differently that the other new ships.

 

I don't know for sure but I would rather doubt it as that is the role of the Queen of Alberni. Also they do not have trouble loading trucks on the current "C" class ships, they have sufficient height for them and I understand that the Super "C's" have even higher deckheads and wider lanes on the lower deck. I think the real issue is loading and unloading trucks at certain terminals such a Horsehsoe Bay which can be tredius.

Got to go to Aquafit now and then start drafting a letter to David Hahn but I tell you about that latter.