smoking policies

[CFitzRN]

There are many scientists who state that there has never been a death from second hand smoke.

 

And how, exactly, would they measure that? I am in the healthcare profession, and I can tell you that there have been deaths of children who suffered from severe asthma whose families refused to spare them from cigarette smoke. Children who have gone into respiratory failure because of a severe smoke-induced asthma attack and who were unable to be resuscitated. Any "scientist" who would state that 'there has never been a death from second hand smoke' isn't worth the bubblegum wrapper his "diploma" is printed on. What "scientists" are you referring to, anyway?

 

There are others who will tell you that there are no "true" allergies to smoke.

 

Who? The same "scientists" to whom you refer above?

 

I do find it amazing that 30 years ago you couldn't find a person that had a smoke allergy,

 

How do you know this? Are you a physician? Or nurse? Were you one 30 years ago?

 

it appears to be the flavor of the decade disease.

 

God forbid people should have the right to be verbal about their inability to breathe when exposed to cigarette smoke.

 

And for all of you who are going to ask, I no longer am a smoker. Why is that relevant?

 

********

[CruisnGram]

I am not picking on you - but on smokers in general.

You said " - adults have the right to choose what they want to do, or not do, as long as it is within the laws and does not harm others. -- " It does harm me and many more like me. I would like the "right" to breathe. If people would be able to smoke where NOBODY has to inhale the second-hand smoke, then I would not have any problems with smoking. Please do not "infringe on the rights of others just to please" yourself. I would love to see lounges just for smoking where people who want to smoke can do just that. Then the rest of the ship can be for other activities. I do respect the right to enjoy a good smoke. Please respect my right to enjoy some good air.

 

I have never said I have a probelem with designated smoking areas. Did you read my post where I made my suggestions as to what could be done?

 

However, my problem is that for many non-smokers, nothing is ever enough. No study has ever claimed that 2nd hand smoke is a problem outside. So let me ask you this. If a cruise ship has sealed areas inside for smoking that totally contains the smoke. And they allow smoking outside on the decks in certain areas, is that okay with you? I can tell you that many, many non smokers complain if they are taking a walk around the entire ship, outside on the promenade and walk past a couple of smokers. To me, that is entirely unreasonable. They are not going to get cancer from that and the worst thing that is going to happen is that they get a smell that they don't like for a few seconds. So they don't want smokers to be able to smoke inside the ship, or in their cabins, or on their balcony's, or out on the open deck. They want to control what everyone else is doing because they don't like it. Even outdoors where there is no threat to their health, they want smoking banned. All you have to do is read comments on any smoking thread to know that I am correct. And I maintain, that adults using a legal product, in an area that will not affect others health, have the perfert right to do so without being treated as a 2nd class citizen by those who don't agree with their choices. They are the one's who "infringe on the rights of others just to please" themselves.

[G'ma]

Dontcha just love these smoking threads????:D

 

Allergies! Cancer!! COPD!! Air pollution!! Children at risk!! Taxes!! Enclosed smoking rooms!! Clouds of smoke!! Choking aromas!! Uninhabitable areas of the ship!!!

 

Better than a Steven King novel, eh?:D

[CFitzRN]

"If a cruise ship has sealed areas inside for smoking that totally contains the smoke. And they allow smoking outside on the decks in certain areas, is that okay with you?"

 

(I know you weren't addressing me, but as a non-smoker, let me answer. YES, that would be wonderful. I wish it were like that.)

[CFitzRN]

Dontcha just love these smoking threads????:D

 

Allergies! Cancer!! COPD!! Air pollution!! Children at risk!! Taxes!! Enclosed smoking rooms!! Clouds of smoke!! Choking aromas!! Uninhabitable areas of the ship!!!

 

Better than a Steven King novel' date=' eh?:D[/quote']

 

After doing my rotation on a pulmonary unit, I will tell you definitively that the ravages of smoking are more horrific than any horror novel there could ever be. I wish so badly people could see what I have seen. Though I also understand that quitting smoking is akin to quitting heroin, so I do have some compassion for smokers. I don't have compassion for smokers when they have no regard for non-smokers and our right to breathe clean air though, so there are rude smokers and rude non-smokers I suppose. There are always buttheads on either side of any issue.

[mtwingcpa]

This thread seems to alternate between pointing fingers at smokers or non-smokers, trying to determine which is the bigger villain. But when it comes to cruise ships, the real villain in my opinion is the cruise lines themselves. This is because they have thus far refused to implement the kinds of policies that have worked reasonably well on dry land, namely designating hotel rooms (cabins) as smoking or non, giving due regard to adequate physical separation. Similar policies need to be enforced on deck.

 

If you want to get mad at someone, get mad at the cruise lines. So far they have only been willing to do a 100% cabin allocation, one way or the other. So if your favorite cruise line decides to go 100% "non" in cabins and balconies, don't blame this on the non-smokers! Similarly, I blame the cruise line, not the smokers themselves, for the smoke in the hallway on my last cruise.

[sail7seas]

It is not possible for a smoker to understand how those two people smoking on promendade deck outside on a moving ship can be causing discomfort or unpleasantness to someone. It isn't that all smokers do not want to understand, most can't. They don't know how offensive it is to some people. They cannot understand how it causes some to choke, cough, suffer headaches, eyes water and and and. Smokers are not bad people but most are unable because of their enjoyment of the substance to 'get it' that others of us truly suffer. Many smokers consider it 'non-smokers' drama'. If you haven't experienced, you cannot know. How do you designate which cough is forced/phony and which is real and legitimate? :confused:

 

You are trying to attach logic when it doesn't always apply. Logic would tell you that a smoker one deck below on their veranda, on a ship slowly moving away from the dock could possibly disturb a guest on the veranda above them. Logic tells them the smoke would disipate before it traveled up a deck but that is not always the case.

 

DH and I were forced away from our railing and our wishes to enjoy sail away evey night had to be denied because the couple on the veranda below had the right to smoke and we got a face full of their smoke each afternoon.

 

They got to enjoy sail aways but we missed out on them.

Logic would probably tell you we weren''t thrilled about that.

[CFitzRN]

It is not possible for a smoker to understand how those two people smoking on promendade deck outside on a moving ship can be causing discomfort or unpleasantness to someone. It isn't that all smokers do not want to understand, most can't. They don't know how offensive it is to some people. They cannot understand how it causes some to choke, cough, suffer headaches, eyes water and and and. Smokers are not bad people but most are unable because of their enjoyment of the substance to 'get it' that others of us truly suffer. Many smokers consider it 'non-smokers' drama'. If you haven't experienced, you cannot know. How do you designate which cough is forced/phony and which is real and legitimate? :confused:

 

You are trying to attach logic when it doesn't always apply. Logic would tell you that a smoker one deck below on their veranda, on a ship slowly moving away from the dock could possibly disturb a guest on the veranda above them. Logic tells them the smoke would disipate before it traveled up a deck but that is not always the case.

 

DH and I were forced away from our railing and our wishes to enjoy sail away evey night had to be denied because the couple on the veranda below had the right to smoke and we got a face full of their smoke each afternoon.

 

They got to enjoy sail aways but we missed out on them.

Logic would probably tell you we weren''t thrilled about that.

 

Well said.

[CruisnGram]

It is not possible for a smoker to understand how those two people smoking on promendade deck outside on a moving ship can be causing discomfort or unpleasantness to someone. It isn't that all smokers do not want to understand, most can't. They don't know how offensive it is to some people. They cannot understand how it causes some to choke, cough, suffer headaches, eyes water and and and. Smokers are not bad people but most are unable because of their enjoyment of the substance to 'get it' that others of us truly suffer. Many smokers consider it 'non-smokers' drama'. If you haven't experienced, you cannot know. How do you designate which cough is forced/phony and which is real and legitimate? :confused:

 

I think I'm pretty reasonable and my previous posts prove that. But I simply have to say that someone quickly walking by a couple people smoking out on a big deck, is not harming anyone. No one is going to cough, or choke or get watering eyes, out in the open air, on a moving ship, as they quickly pass a couple of smokers. It's just NOT going to happen.

You are trying to attach logic when it doesn't always apply. Logic would tell you that a smoker one deck below on their veranda, on a ship slowly moving away from the dock could possibly disturb a guest on the veranda above them. Logic tells them the smoke would disipate before it traveled up a deck but that is not always the case.

 

DH and I were forced away from our railing and our wishes to enjoy sail away evey night had to be denied because the couple on the veranda below had the right to smoke and we got a face full of their smoke each afternoon.

 

Now you are talking about balconies. Very, very different from the open, public, decks of the ship. I'm sure that non-smokers are bothered by smoke from other balconies and they should NOT have to deal with that. Lord, if the wind is blowing a certain way, that smoke can be right in their faces. Unfair, and should not be tolerated.

They got to enjoy sail aways but we missed out on them.

Logic would probably tell you we weren''t thrilled about that.

 

You are 100% right. I would have been down right angry and would probably have asked (politely) the smokers to refrain from smoking on their balcony at least some of the time that you were out there. You might have been pleasantly surprised at the response as many smokers in today's world are very conscience of how irritating their smoke it to others and if asked politely, will help to ease the problem.

[CruisnGram]

I saw this on GMA the other day and think that this really could be the solution. It is being mass marketed in Europe now and is very succesful. Is expected to be sold in the US in the next two months. Can be ordered on the internet now. Personally, if something like this is available, I think that tobacco should be banned. The only problem that I can see arising if it becomes a widely used product, is that research will have to be done to prove to people the vapor is not "smoke" and is totally harmless. It should be interesting the first time someone "lights up" in a non smoking area! :eek:

 

http://smartfixx.com/

[mtwingcpa]

But I simply have to say that someone quickly walking by a couple people smoking out on a big deck, is not harming anyone. No one is going to cough, or choke or get watering eyes, out in the open air, on a moving ship, as they quickly pass a couple of smokers.

 

When I was aboard the Star a few weeks ago, if I was walking forward on the promenade deck from the aft of the ship, and people were smoking on that deck at the front of the ship, I had to inhale their smoke for my entire walk along that side of the ship. There was no option to "quickly walk by."

 

I could turn around and go the other way, but I was just as likely to encounter smoking on the other side of the ship.

[cruzin w chris]

drinking is worse than cig smoking, you can get away from smokers. drinking is mind altering and tobacco is not. you could quite possibly run into a violent out of control drunk that could do you some serious harm and be relentless about it. but you can just avoid a smoker all together and have no problem. so for all of you ridiculous cant shut up anti smokers, if you drink alcohol then i dont think you should say a damn word.

[G'ma]

When I was aboard the Star a few weeks ago, if I was walking forward on the promenade deck from the aft of the ship, and people were smoking on that deck at the front of the ship, I had to inhale their smoke for my entire walk along that side of the ship. There was no option to "quickly walk by."

 

I could turn around and go the other way, but I was just as likely to encounter smoking on the other side of the ship.

 

Did you ever see the film or the play - or read the fairytale "The Princess and the Pea"? Poor thing. No matter how many mattresses they piled on top of the offending pea, the dear sensitive thing could still feel it......The thing is, the pea stayed in one place. Her supersensitive highness was doomed to feel that pea every night.

 

Smoke, by it's very nature, doesn't stay in one place....it doesn't travel in a straight line and certainly doesn't contain itself on an open deck from bow to stern on a ship traveling 12 - 15 knots or more.

 

Until smoking and tobacco have been outlawed (and they find out how to replace those billions and billions of lovely taxes), we will all have to accomodate each other.

[G'ma]

Does anyone know exactly what the 'new' or "still the same" smoking policies are on the major cruies line; particularly regarding cabins and their respective balconies?

 

I have read that Carnival does NOT allow smoking in cabins etc.(hard to believe since other lines of that same group still do), and that Celebrity will not as well come October 2008. I believe several others are as strict but I cannot find an accurate list.

 

Can't speak for Celebrity but Carnival DOES permit smoking in cabins, on balconies, casino, several lounges and one side of the ship on deck.

[G'ma]

Smoking policies are definitely headed in the right direction!

 

Hopefully it won't be too much longer before cruise lines learn that cigarette smoke is a known carcinogen and prohibit it all together!

 

D.

 

Don't hold your breath. Carnival already entered that nonsmoking ship thingie......and lost their shirt on each sailing. Read the history of their ship "Paradise".

 

Until they outlaw tobacco, smoking is a legal activity and most cruise ships will accomodate smokers.

 

There are a few nonsmoking companies...where no smoking is permitted or it is very, very restricted. Might one suggest you check them out. Your dream can come true on Azamara and Oceania, just to name a few.

[G'ma]

That would be true if the designated smoking areas were all "sealed" with separate ventilation systems. But that doesn't appear to be the case on cruise ships. Many of us non-smokers simply want the same quality of facilities that we would find on dry land under applicable state laws (which cruise ships can generally avoid).

 

And-------- you can have that experience. Try Azamara or Oceania..... If you chose to sail on a ship where smoking is permitted, you have no right to complain. You have alternatives. Why put yourself in a miserable place where you are tortured by the bad habits of others???

[CruisnGram]

Did you ever see the film or the play - or read the fairytale "The Princess and the Pea"? Poor thing. No matter how many mattresses they piled on top of the offending pea' date=' the dear sensitive thing could still feel it......The thing is, the pea stayed in one place. Her supersensitive highness was doomed to feel that pea every night.

 

Smoke, by it's very nature, doesn't stay in one place....it doesn't travel in a straight line and certainly doesn't contain itself on an open deck from bow to stern on a ship traveling 12 - 15 knots or more.quote']

 

Exactly my point. The one poster proves my point exactly. And if that person had their way, smoking would be totally banned. Even while on an open deck of a ship, they claim that the smoke is following them and that they are inhaling it their entire walk. Do they realize how absurd that statement is? On a moving ship that is impossible! Ridiculous for sure, but try and reason with them. You cannot. As my original post way, back near the beginning on this thread said, many non smokers are completely unreasonable and want it there way. Period. And as long as people aren't willing to work out a solution, the problem will never go away.

[G'ma]

Speaking of what is "legal," many states have public smoking laws that are far more restrictive than what you've outlined. I would be perfectly happy if the laws of my home state applied on board. That would basically require no smoking indoors (unless in a special sealed room), at least 75% of cabins designated as non-smoking, and no smoking outdoors within 25 feet of doorways, openable windows or ventilation equipment.

 

The evolution of such laws in my state indicates that merely posting a sign declaring a particular area to be "smoking" or "non" does NOT adequately deal with the problem. Rather, the only way to successfully deal with it is by providing effective PHYSICAL barriers and boundaries.

 

Well, might I suggest you confine your vacation plans to the USA, then. When you board a ship, you are no longer in the US. If it is so abhorrent to you, why would you chose to cruise with a company that permits smoking? You have alternatives. May I suggest you avail yourself of one of them?

[mtwingcpa]

Did you ever see the film or the play - or read the fairytale "The Princess and the Pea"? Poor thing. No matter how many mattresses they piled on top of the offending pea' date=' the dear sensitive thing could still feel it......The thing is, the pea stayed in one place. Her supersensitive highness was doomed to feel that pea every night.[/quote']

 

No, I don't' recall seeing that. But in any event, I don't understand how it serves this discussion to compare my viewpoint to a fairytale. A less "dismissive" tone would be appreciated, by me at least.

[mtwingcpa]

And as long as people aren't willing to work out a solution, the problem will never go away.

 

Agreed. And as long as you dismiss other people's observations (you weren't there) as "absurd," "ridiculous," and "impossible," we are not working on a solution.

 

This is my final post in this thread.

[CruisnGram]

Agreed. And as long as you dismiss other people's observations (you weren't there) as "absurd," "ridiculous," and "impossible," we are not working on a solution.

 

This is my final post in this thread.

 

Sorry you feel you need the leave this thread but perhaps it is for the best. We were having a half way civil conversation before you made your absurd (yes I said it again) statement. I may not have been there but I've been on cruise ship decks when the ship is moving and there is no way that simply because you passed a few smokers, you had to inhale their smoke for entire walk along that side of the ship. It simply is not possible due to wind, etc.

[puli]

drinking is worse than cig smoking, you can get away from smokers. drinking is mind altering and tobacco is not. you could quite possibly run into a violent out of control drunk that could do you some serious harm and be relentless about it. but you can just avoid a smoker all together and have no problem. so for all of you ridiculous cant shut up anti smokers, if you drink alcohol then i dont think you should say a damn word.

 

sorry i could not resist....some of us do not use either "drug".

[G'ma]

No, I don't' recall seeing that. But in any event, I don't understand how it serves this discussion to compare my viewpoint to a fairytale. A less "dismissive" tone would be appreciated, by me at least.

 

The intention is not to be dismissive. The intent is to point out that smoke doesn't follow you around just to irritate you. On a moving ship, smoke dissipates....it doesn't follow you around the promenade - nor curl around your balcony.

 

If one is so very sensitive that one can pick up microbes of smoke in the tradewinds combined with the speed of the ship, perhaps one shouldn't be exposed to any ship that permits smoking. There are alternatives upon the sea.

 

However, if one choses to cruise on a ship that permits smoking, one shouldn't complain unless the smoker is enjoying the habit in a non-smoking area.

[CruisnGram]

sorry i could not resist....some of us do not use either "drug".

 

Smart lady! :D

[Texas_Diver]

I am SO glad that I never chose to smoke. Health risks aside, it gives your skin such a leathery appearance.

 

D.