Surrender Your Passport?

[kaisatsu]

I guess the question still remains, other than "it's standard practice" or WHY does a hotel or cruise line think they NEED to hold your passport? What are they holding it for?

I don't know about hotels, because we've never had a hotel try this. But for cruises, as the other posters have mentioned, it's so that the immigration authorities at each port can process them faster. Presumably the cruise staff checks the photo when you hand it over to make sure it's you, and then the port authorities take their word for it after that. The ship certainly does get them out for the immigration officers from time to time, because we've had our passports come back with new stamps at the end of some cruises.

 

In another case, we did a Chinese package tour to Japan once, and the tour staff wanted to keep everyone's passports. We asked, and they let us keep ours, but they insisted on keeping the Chinese passports. It was something about how they were liable if any of the Chinese tourists snuck off to try to stay in Japan, so they held everyone's passports to limit their independent travel options and make sure they all got on the plane back to China at the end.

[sail7seas]

I guess the question still remains, other than "it's standard practice" or WHY does a hotel or cruise line think they NEED to hold your passport? What are they holding it for?

 

 

Doesn't matter why when you are standing there bone tired and they are insisting. You have two choices: comply or leave and go where????

 

Maybe it's just this simple: They do it because they can....... And what are you going to do about it? Sleep in the park?

[ChevyCruiser]

Doesn't matter why when you are standing there bone tired and they are insisting. You have two choices: comply or leave and go where????

 

Maybe it's just this simple: They do it because they can....... And what are you going to do about it? Sleep in the park?

 

Good point, :) maybe they do it just because they can and lots of people are like sheep - all the more reason to refuse. It may be their "standard practice" or their "policy", but my "standard practice" is to maintain control over my own identification documents, and it's my "policy" not to turn them over to anyone else to hold for me. Since when did hotel clerks become the pinnacle of honesty?

 

I may arrive somewhere bone-tired, but I have yet to arrive stupid.;)

[cruisemom42]

Good point, :) maybe they do it just because they can and lots of people are like sheep - all the more reason to refuse. It may be their "standard practice" or their "policy", but my "standard practice" is to maintain control over my own identification documents, and it's my "policy" not to turn them over to anyone else to hold for me. Since when did hotel clerks become the pinnacle of honesty?

 

I may arrive somewhere bone-tired, but I have yet to arrive stupid.;)

 

Well, good luck to you. Let us know how that works out. Last time I checked, the standard practices/policies of one person in a foreign country do not trump the rules and regulations of that country.

 

In Italy, I believe it is the law that the hotel clerk has to retain your passport until it is checked out by the appropriate local authority (I'm not sure which one but I know that I have read this....too busy to look it up right now). That might take a few minutes, by phone, or it may take a few hours if the "local authority" is not available immediately.

 

I have traveled numerous times in Italy. Sometimes my passport has been returned while I am still upstairs unpacking. Sometimes it is a few hours. Once or twice it was overnight. Nothing *bad* has ever happened.

 

YMMV. :cool:

[greatam]

Good point, :) maybe they do it just because they can and lots of people are like sheep - all the more reason to refuse. It may be their "standard practice" or their "policy", but my "standard practice" is to maintain control over my own identification documents, and it's my "policy" not to turn them over to anyone else to hold for me. Since when did hotel clerks become the pinnacle of honesty?

 

I may arrive somewhere bone-tired, but I have yet to arrive stupid.;)

 

It may be your "standard practice", bu you will miss quite a few places in the world.

 

Planning on the Olympics in Beijing???? Turn over your passport or you won't even be able to check in to the hotel. You will be escorted back to the airport by the State Security police (and if you get mouthy on the way, you may make a detour to Shin Mai (sp) tourist prison).

 

Same thing in Vietnam and Cambodia. And along the Peruvian/Colombian/Ecuadorian border, passports will be taken at hotels to prevent FARC (terrorist, Communist group) from acquiring passports to get out of the country.

 

American passports are worth much more than their weight in gold. $25,000 is NOT an unheard of price on the black market. I travel internationally for business at least 8 times per year (South America and Asia primarily). I carry a copy of my passport (NOT color-technically it is illegal to make a color copy of a US passport) and extra pictures. I also have emailed a copy of my passport to myself-accessible anyplace in the world I have internet access. I KNOW where the US Embassy/consulate is located in each country. I register my trips. I take a lot of precautions. But quite frequently, I don't have my passport on my person. I feel much safer with the passport in the hotel office safe, rather than possibly fighting a thief who wants my passport. In certain parts of the world, Americans are TARGETED just to get their passports.

[sail7seas]

Good point, :) maybe they do it just because they can and lots of people are like sheep - all the more reason to refuse. It may be their "standard practice" or their "policy", but my "standard practice" is to maintain control over my own identification documents, and it's my "policy" not to turn them over to anyone else to hold for me. Since when did hotel clerks become the pinnacle of honesty?

 

I may arrive somewhere bone-tired, but I have yet to arrive stupid.;)

 

 

You are going to sleep where??? You may be smarter than the rest of us but we'll have a nice soft bed and we have yet to read anyone's nightmare story of what happened when they complied with local law.

[jms2362]

Make copies of your passport to carry with you on dif. islands or ports. We have given them up for years. It keeps us from having to stand in line with the immigration people. I didn't like it at first til I found out why. The ship gets you through immigration in Europe in dif. ports and then when you make your final departure.

[lovesublime]

You are going to sleep where??? You may be smarter than the rest of us but we'll have a nice soft bed and we have yet to read anyone's nightmare story of what happened when they complied with local law.

 

 

Sorry, but it's not local law ANYWHERE for a hotel clerk to retain your passport for any length of time. Yes, they may need to record and report your information, but they do not have the right to hold it.

[ChevyCruiser]

Sorry, but it's not local law ANYWHERE for a hotel clerk to retain your passport for any length of time. Yes, they may need to record and report your information, but they do not have the right to hold it.

 

I agree, and in the future will travel with a couple of extra copies of my passport with me in case such occasions arise. They may need the info, but they sure don't need the actual document.

 

There was a caller on Peter Greenburg's radio show this morning who asked a question about surrendering your passport to hotel clerks. Greenburg said it was a holdover from the Inspector Clouseau days and that hotels do not need to hold your passport. He suggested carrying some copies of your passport with you in case the hotel insists they need the info, but not to surrender your passport.

 

If the actual passport will get you on a plane back home and a photocopy or a "receipt" will get you nowhere, which do you want to keep in your possesion?

[kaisatsu]

I've never had a hotel in Italy or China ask to keep my passport, so I don't think it's a requirement by law.

 

What is a requirement by law in China is for hotels to keep track of where foreigners are staying. However, this usually just meant filling out a standard government-issued form at the hotel desk. They need your name, nationality, passport number, etc. I believe some places make a photocopy of the passport just to save the time/hassle of filling out the form manually every time, but presumably you could just request that they copy down the information by hand (I don't know how far you'd get with this request, though).

 

I wouldn't worry too much about getting carted off by the government, though. When we moved to Beijing, we never bothered with the hassle of registering ourselves as foreigners with the neighborhood police station (the one person we know who tried said that it took ages and no one spoke enough English for him to figure out what was going on). As long as we didn't break any serious laws or cause problems, the only realistic risk was an unlikely $75 fine.

[greatam]

I've never had a hotel in Italy or China ask to keep my passport, so I don't think it's a requirement by law.

 

What is a requirement by law in China is for hotels to keep track of where foreigners are staying. However, this usually just meant filling out a standard government-issued form at the hotel desk. They need your name, nationality, passport number, etc. I believe some places make a photocopy of the passport just to save the time/hassle of filling out the form manually every time, but presumably you could just request that they copy down the information by hand (I don't know how far you'd get with this request, though).

 

I wouldn't worry too much about getting carted off by the government, though. When we moved to Beijing, we never bothered with the hassle of registering ourselves as foreigners with the neighborhood police station (the one person we know who tried said that it took ages and no one spoke enough English for him to figure out what was going on). As long as we didn't break any serious laws or cause problems, the only realistic risk was an unlikely $75 fine.

 

NEW policy in China-January/February 2008. ALL USA passports are kept by the hotels. It may be other countries, but I know for sure it applies to USA passports. It is to prevent "dissidents/protestors" from getting into China before the Olympics. I normally stay at either the Beijing Hotel or the Peninsula. I was very surprised that they kept my passport for more than a few hours to fill out the form. How long they kept it previously depended on how busy they were at check in-sometimes not at all, sometimes a few hours if they were swamped.

 

The State Security Police also showed up at the Beijing Hotel in March. I got called to the front desk, as were about 15 others. I was questioned about what I was doing in China-legitimate business. I was let go after about 20 minutes. BUT Two younger (late 20's/early 30's) US citizens who stated they were "tourists, just visiting", were escorted out of the hotel. I didn't hear the entire conversation, but from what I heard, they had mentioned the word "writer", but had no journalism credentials.

 

China is NOT messing around with anyone who THEY THINK may in anyway make them "loose face" to the world. They have repeatedly denied visa's to US citizens, they are keeping passports at hotels, and they are getting stricter and stricter in all ways. I have canceled all business trips to China until well after the Olympics.

 

Will they revert to the old, more open ways???? IMHO, depends on how they are presented to the world. IF no news agency mentions the horrible pollution (and their cover up works to their advantage), there are no protests shown on TV AND the Chinese live up to their deals with the TV networks that paid so dearly to broadcast (NBC primarily), they will probably relax the rules. But quite a few of these things are in serious doubt.

[aaerobear]

When did everyone become such experts on these issues? Many of us have told you what OUR experiences were and that's what we have based our answers on. NEVER believe anyone who says "I will NEVER turn over my passport" yes you will and you will be right there in the same line as the rest of us. Making statements like that will not influence others who will try to comply with local regualtions/customs/laws whatever you want to call them.

 

lovesublime, where did you get your international law degree? I am amazed that you know all the laws in all the countries of the world. AMAZING

 

"Sorry, but it's not local law ANYWHERE for a hotel clerk to retain your passport for any length of time. Yes, they may need to record and report your information, but they do not have the right to hold it."

[sail7seas]

I agree, and in the future will travel with a couple of extra copies of my passport with me in case such occasions arise. They may need the info, but they sure don't need the actual document.

 

There was a caller on Peter Greenburg's radio show this morning who asked a question about surrendering your passport to hotel clerks. Greenburg said it was a holdover from the Inspector Clouseau days and that hotels do not need to hold your passport. He suggested carrying some copies of your passport with you in case the hotel insists they need the info, but not to surrender your passport.

 

If the actual passport will get you on a plane back home and a photocopy or a "receipt" will get you nowhere, which do you want to keep in your possesion?

 

 

Just idle curiousity but have you done much international travel? Have you actually refused to hand over your passport at hotels? Where? What happened? Did you check into those hotels or did you leave?

 

Did you have a good time during those travels?

Or is all this 'hypothetical' as to what you will do When you travel internationally at some time in the future?

 

Just curious about your actual experiences to add to 'fact data' vs opinions as to what others should be doing with during their travels.

 

I hope I can learn from you.

[ikelmay]

You are right and I wonder why others refuse to believe it. If they read the inside of their U.S. passports, it states that the passport is the property of the U.S. government. No hotel clerk anywhere has the right to 'hold' someone's passport.

 

Errrm I think you will find that there are a number of countries in the world where this is a requirement.......... local laws will trump whatever is written in your passport - your choice, if you want to find a park bench to sleep on for the night, go right ahead

[sail7seas]

I've never had a hotel in Italy or China ask to keep my passport, so I don't think it's a requirement by law.

 

 

 

:confused: So..... :confused: If you didn't enounter that situation it means I didn't ?

[lovesublime]

In a few countries, they do, indeed, take a photo copy of your passport when you check-in at a hotel....no copy=no room. Complain all you want, it won't fly. In Saudi Arabia (not that many of you will be heading there anytime soon) they take the passport of airline crew members and do not return them till they are processing out of the country at the airport.

 

In Italy they take passports at all hotels and usually keep them overnight, this is required by Italian law. You would have no idea if they took a photocopy or not.

 

 

I've been to Italy a couple of times and never had the hotel keep my passport for any length of time. My husband has been to Italy several dozen times and he tells me the same-no hotel has kept his passport. I'm not saying it hasn't happened to you or others who have posted here. You insist it is some sort of law-then why isn't it consistently enforced?

 

My husband actually carries three passports. He travels extensively to Saudi Arabia and Israel. Saudi will not let him in the country with an Israeli stamp and Israel will not let him in with a Saudi stamp. He also travels a lot to France and no hotel there has kept his passport. It's strange to me that this so called 'law' you speak of has never been enforced with either of us. Maybe you just look suspicious.

[pba20493]

You are not required to hand over your passport to any other government or any other agency, other than the government that issued it. The passport is the property of the country that issued it, not the cruiseline. I for one will never turn it over to them for any reason. If the United States government wants it back, ok, I will surrender it to them only.

 

 

Tim

[greatam]

For all of you doubters out there-you may be REQUIRED to leave your US passport at a hotel (depending on the rules of the country, NOT the USA).

 

This info is direct from the US State Dept for State Dept associates and employees traveling overseas. All government contractors (of which I am one) are also given the same info. If it is good enough for the State Dept, it sure ought to be good enough for tourists or cruise ship passengers. Please note the section "PASSPORT PROTECTION"

 

 

http://www.spawar.navy.mil/sandiego/security/FP-AT/antitersd/passport.pdf

[cruisemom42]

For all of you doubters out there-you may be REQUIRED to leave your US passport at a hotel (depending on the rules of the country, NOT the USA).

 

This info is direct from the US State Dept for State Dept associates and employees traveling overseas. All government contractors (of which I am one) are also given the same info. If it is good enough for the State Dept, it sure ought to be good enough for tourists or cruise ship passengers. Please note the section "PASSPORT PROTECTION"

 

 

http://www.spawar.navy.mil/sandiego/security/FP-AT/antitersd/passport.pdf

 

 

Greatam, I posted almost the same info earlier on this thread, yet people still insist that no one has the right to take their passports away.

 

I give up. Let them think what they like. I just suggest that those who refuse hand over their passport to anyone other than the US government should perhaps have alternate plans in mind when the cruise they are taking or the hotel they have planned to stay in doesn't see things "their" way.

[lovesublime]

For all of you doubters out there-you may be REQUIRED to leave your US passport at a hotel (depending on the rules of the country, NOT the USA).

 

This info is direct from the US State Dept for State Dept associates and employees traveling overseas. All government contractors (of which I am one) are also given the same info. If it is good enough for the State Dept, it sure ought to be good enough for tourists or cruise ship passengers. Please note the section "PASSPORT PROTECTION"

 

 

http://www.spawar.navy.mil/sandiego/security/FP-AT/antitersd/passport.pdf

 

I don't see how it is officially from the state dept. In fact, if you go to the state dept. site, you won't any info like that. The site you posted is a government contractor. Also, under 'passport protection', it also states you should guard your passport like your wallet. I seriously doubt you would hand your wallet over to a hotel clerk. But go ahead.

 

As for the cruise lines collecting passports, I don't have a probably with that. I understand that it's to help expedite getting a large number of people through customs. And as I've already stated, we have never been asked by any foreign hotel to hold our passports for any period of time-EVER. If asked, I would tell them to stick it.

[cruisemom42]

I don't see how it is officially from the state dept. In fact, if you go to the state dept. site, you won't any info like that.

 

 

Oh really? What about this? This is a link to an official Dept of State publication, on their website, and targeted to business travelers.

 

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/19795.pdf

 

 

On page 11: "In some countries, your passport may be temporarily held by the hotel for review by the police or other authorities, obtain its return at the earliest possible time."

 

 

Please stop making declarations like this. You are misleading people. Yes, clearly you should be careful with your passport. Yes, you should get it back as soon as possible. But it's simply NOT TRUE that a hotel cannot hold your passport and that government authorities in other countries do not have the legal right to check them out.

[PurpleCow]

Actually in those countries where you are required to register with the local police you can go to the police station and do this yourself if you don't trust your hotel to do it for you. I prefer to let the hotel do what it routinely does rather than draw attention to myself in a foreign country. In addition, on the ship you may stop at the purser's office to pick up your passport before you disembark in port. On our TA on Century last year our passports were not picked up. On the day before we arrived in Dover everyone had to go to one of the lounges to clear British immigration. It took several hours to get everyone on the ship cleared. (Don't ask me how or when those guys got on the shop. I have no idea.) I would hate to have to do that at every port and am happy to have purser handle it for me so I can hit the ground running when we arrive in port.

[lovesublime]

Oh really? What about this? This is a link to an official Dept of State publication, on their website, and targeted to business travelers.

 

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/19795.pdf

 

 

On page 11: "In some countries, your passport may be temporarily held by the hotel for review by the police or other authorities, obtain its return at the earliest possible time."

 

 

Please stop making declarations like this. You are misleading people. Yes, clearly you should be careful with your passport. Yes, you should get it back as soon as possible. But it's simply NOT TRUE that a hotel cannot hold your passport and that government authorities in other countries do not have the legal right to check them out.

 

 

Again, I reiterarte, do it at your own risk. A hotel CANNOT legally hold a U.S. citizens passport. Be a sheep and don't look out for yourself?!!! Our son traveled to Spain and Morocco as a high schooler and never had his passport 'held' either. So, between the three of us, we have never had our passports 'held' anywhere. Between he three of us we have traveled to Saudi Arabia, Italy, Israel, France, Germany, Morocco, Spain, Great Britain (England), Belgium, Switzerland, Mexico, Canada, Bahamas, Kenya, Tanzania, Japan, Bali, Brazil, the former communist East Germany, and French Polynesia. None of us have EVER been asked to leave our passports at the front desk. You are extremely naive or just flat out unsophisticated to think that any hotel employee has the right to 'confiscate' your U.S. passport because you conside it to be their custom or practice.

 

As my husband has been told by his company when traveling-'never let your passport out of your sight'. He works for http://www.pdgm.com/ He has worked there for over twenty years and has traveled extensively for his company the entire time. I feel very confident in how his company has advised him. In fact, his company has an agency that aquires and renews his passports and visas on a regular basis. He doesn't even have to pay for it. We are not dumb sheep. We look out for ourselves while abroad. I recommend that you guys do the same.

[Moeve]

China is an exception to any rule these days..... and the hotels are sort of an extented arm of immigration officials. You already have to hand over hotel booking etc when applying for your visa - these are then checked when you get to China. Most other countries especially where one doesn't even need a visa don't require this sort of data collctiona anymore.

 

Those of you with bio metric data in your passports need to be very vidulent. In most cases if you say sorry no you may verify who I am on site but not copy or keep any data -most hotels will co operate. If not step to the plate and don't leave it at that insist on a copy of the managers passport and the clerk handling the file. Watch and see what happens. You will get a flat no from them!

 

Believe it or not there are judges out there who REQUIRE ID Fraud victims to get exactly that. (these will however carry the coursts instructions in writing) They are not allowed to hand over any details with out getting the details of the person who takes them.

[kaisatsu]

Since it's vaguely related, I thought I would pass along this information from the latest Beijing embassy newsletter. Before you take anything in this thread as gospel, note that not even the US Embassy has official notification on the matter from the Chinese authorities. ;) It does mention the registration requirements (it looks like the fine for not registering has gone up) and copying of information but doesn't specifically address the retaining of passports...

 

U.S. State Department

U.S. Embassy Beijing Consular Section, American Citizen Services (ACS) Newsletter

July 2008

 

REGISTRATION WITH THE POLICE

*** Although anecdotal evidence supports the following information, the PSB (Police Security Bureau) has not provided official notification regarding changes listed here. This information is being provided because of numerous inquiries ACS has received regarding enforcement of registration guidelines. ***

 

The Embassy has been informed that the PSB recently issued guidelines to hotels and apartment management companies concerning the registration of foreigners in China. The rule states that all foreigners must be registered with the local PSB office within 24 hours of arrival. Both individual violators and hotels and apartment managers could be subject to fines for failing to adhere to the rule.

 

Hotels and serviced apartments

Guests must be registered upon arrival with the PSB by their hotel or serviced apartment management company. Usually this procedure is automatic, as guest information is directly given to the PSB at check-in, with no additional action being required from the guest. However, the PSB is conducting some checks by physically visiting hotels to request copies of the hotel's in-house guest list to make sure they match the PSB?s own records. If the records do not match, the hotel / serviced apartment will be fined up to RMB5,000 per missing entry. Hotel guests under these circumstances would not be fined.

 

However, this does mean that foreigners wishing to stay at a hotel must provide full passport and visa credentials in order to check in. Some hotels have denied check-in to guests with reservations who are not in possession of a passport and visa.

 

Foreign personnel living in private apartments

Apartment management companies are supposed to contact foreign tenants to remind them to register with the local PSB. Tenants who do not register risk being fined themselves as well as having their apartment management company fined. Fines can be up to RMB 5,000. This applies to any foreigner living in any apartment or private dwelling - even if it is for just for one night. If staying overnight or visiting friends in China, registration must be carried out upon arrival with the local PSB office responsible for the area.

*** End of article***