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***A warning about private tours in Egypt***

Lisichka

By Lisichka,
in Africa & Middle East

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smeyer418

smeyer418

Posted
Posted

not kick a dead horse but the original poster warning and first paragraph was

 

"I realize I cannot start a thread about a specific tour operator, but thought it was imperative that I warn people about independent tour operators in Egypt. This is not specific to one tour company, but probably would apply to any independent tour operator in Egypt."

 

It didn't start off with a traffic warning it painted ALL independent operators in Egypt with a broad very red brush. No one said that traffic in Egypt isn't a challenge. I live in NY and have driven a cab here so I know difficult traffic but Cairo was by far was the worst I have seen. Any driver who has made it to adult hood there knows better that we do the traffic challenges there. When ever you do an non-cruise tour, in any country, you should do your homework first. There is no news in that. Whether De Castro is better or worse than any other Egyptian tour company is something I don't know. The OP said stay on a ships tour, I pointed out that for the most part the cruise lines use the same operators and drivers. The only thing you get by using the cruise lines is an implied promise to wait for you.....you also get larger groups and less time in many places because of the size of the tour(and almost always higher prices)...

 

Please do you homework before you go, give yourself plenty of time to get where you need at the end but don't get tied into use the cruise line only you will miss many out of the way places by being so rigid.

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Lisichka

Lisichka

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My most "frightening" cab rides...Rome (FCO to city), Washington D.C. (restaurant to hotel) and the really scary one...Mazatlan (open-car "pulmonia" ride to anywhere). We will be using DeCastro for Egypt in September. Hopefully, they will have seat belts because we plan to wear them. Take care everyone.

 

Decastro tour busses do not have seatbelts.

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smeyer418

smeyer418

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Decastro tour busses do not have seatbelts.

 

 

Neither do NY City transit buses or most over the road buses in the US..,..and who wears them other than the driver anyway....and they aren't requiered on school buses in the US

 

 

I don't remember them on other buses in Egypt and I doubt the government or the cruise company requires them.....

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Lisichka

Lisichka

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I didn't miss your point. But I completely disagree with your point. If the roads of Egypt are more dangerous than the roads in other countries, then that applies to all who use the roads, private tours and ship's sponsored tours alike. The private tour operator we used last year in Egypt was exceptional and I wasn't any more concerned about crashing there than I would be concerned driving around my own city or countryside.

 

.................Stan

 

I agree that no matter who you travel with, your chances of getting in a crash are probably pretty similar IF they employ similar driving styles. Unfortunately most of the time you do not know what their driving style is until you are in their van/bus. When on a cruise though, there are other considerations to keep in mind (getting back to the ship in time), and as such I think you need to be careful as to who you select.

 

When I go back to Egypt, I will take the necessary precautions to keep my family safe. I have no doubt all of you will do the same, even if we differ in our opions as to what 'safe' really means.

 

Happy travels all!

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Lisichka

Lisichka

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Neither do NY City transit buses or most over the road buses in the US..,..and who wears them other than the driver anyway....and they aren't requiered on school buses in the US

 

 

I don't remember them on other buses in Egypt and I doubt the government or the cruise company requires them.....

 

 

Just an FYI: US government employees are not allowed to use some of the public/tour transportation in Egypt. Must be a reason for that. Don't see that yet in NY and/or anywhere else in the US.

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smeyer418

smeyer418

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Just an FYI: US government employees are not allowed to use some of the public/tour transportation in Egypt. Must be a reason for that. Don't see that yet in NY and/or anywhere else in the US.

Its because of a bombings/kidnapping not because of traffic. USG employees are warned to keep a low profile. I assume they can still use cabs or arrange for private tours. If the USG was concerned they would provide them cars and drivers which they don't except for the senior staff. The Embassy is heavily armed and patrolled....but then again all the tourist sites are heavily armed and patrolled....when I rode the Police Carmel in Dashur/Saquarra I had to ask the guard to remove the Uzi from the saddle...

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/smeyer418

 

BTW it also means that can't use the ships tours either.

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Bop

Bop

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Well, if I were writing a comment about our driver on our private tour with Egyptian Express, I would probably write it this way:

 

"Traffic in Egypt is terrible!!! (Well, not as bad as in Morocco, or in Istanbul, or places in the Caribbean, or in Kenya, even in Greece or Rome -- but still terrible!) We were extremely fortunate to have an expert driver well used to the ways of the country. He kept right up with the fastest vehicles, in the caravan or on the highway, and moved us along to the sights we wanted to see. In the city he was adept at weaving in and out among the other cars, trucks, mopeds, water buffalo and other traffic, and really accomplished some amazing feats in getting us from one attraction to another without wasted time. Actually, at one point in traffic, a motor scooter sideswiped us. Words ensued, but the only damage was a ding on the back fender which did not really seem to bother the driver. I really think that the experienced tourist van or bus drivers are some of the best in the world, whatever country you are in. Many many countries do not drive the way we do in the US, and lots and lots of times we just sort of quit watching and keep our eyes on the guide."

 

Certainly, after our experiences on many cruises in many countries, we would not single out Egypt as a place to avoid because of the traffic! And I certainly do not understand why private tours would be any more problem than the ship's excursions.

 

Hi Mike,

 

You took the words right out of my mouth. I am sure traffic is horrible in Cairo but I can't imagine that it would be much worse than Istanbul, where the drivers make their own extra lanes. There are darned few side mirrors there! I almost bought it crossing the street in Istanbul but I would love to return there. Same goes for Rome, Athens, London, Copenhagen(speeding bicycles), and the Amalfi Coast.

 

We will be sure to stay out of the camel crossings!:D

 

Jim from VA

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BJS

BJS

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Most of the time the independent tour operators are the same the cruise ships use. So I really don't see your point and its a myth that cruise ships always wait for you when its their tour...the don't always do. Yes if you are on an independent tour its your responsibility to get back on time but that is always true...btw the worst number of traffic accidents I have seen has been in Rome so I guess you shouldn't do this in Italy either...

 

ps if the bus driver did this I wouldn't tip them and let them know why!

 

We have seen the ship wait multiple times for cruise ship tours.

 

I would be interested in hearing why and when they have not done so.

 

Thank you to Lisichka for posting. There are many of us out here that do appreciate what you have to say.

 

It is unfortunate that those that didn't agree with you, would not ever consider a ship's tour, and feel that a private tour is the only way to see anything have to dispute your postings. Sometimes just posting and not returning to rebute these comments is the best alternative.

 

Having read these boards for many years you will find any recommendation of taking a ship's tour will result in the same type responses that you have received. These boards are supposed to be for the benefit of all even those that do prefer a ship's tour but rarely do you find an absence of negative responses to those posts. When someone posts inquiring about a certain ship's tour immediately they are told not to take it but rather take a private tour. Had you not posted recommending a ship's tour in Egypt you might not have had all of the negative responses but rather others just relating their experiences.

 

.

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smeyer418

smeyer418

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We have seen the ship wait multiple times for cruise ship tours.

 

I would be interested in hearing why and when they have not done so.

 

Thank you to Lisichka for posting. There are many of us out here that do appreciate what you have to say.

 

It is unfortunate that those that didn't agree with you, would not ever consider a ship's tour, and feel that a private tour is the only way to see anything have to dispute your postings. Sometimes just posting and not returning to rebute these comments is the best alternative.

 

Having read these boards for many years you will find any recommendation of taking a ship's tour will result in the same type responses that you have received. These boards are supposed to be for the benefit of all even those that do prefer a ship's tour but rarely do you find an absence of negative responses to those posts. When someone posts inquiring about a certain ship's tour immediately they are told not to take it but rather take a private tour. Had you not posted recommending a ship's tour in Egypt you might not have had all of the negative responses but rather others just relating their experiences.

 

.

 

 

who said I don't do ships tours? not me I do them occasionally but not very often and one of the reasons I do them is when time in the port is short. But I have read that on occasion ships tour or no ships tour the ship has left without the passengers---when they are really really late. I don't have a problem suggesting ships tours to those who are more comfortable with them but I personally hate being one or two of 50 on a bus with 10 ohter buses going the exact same place. I like smaller tours 12 or less...so either I do my own or do a small tour. My tour in Egypt was 8 people and we paid extra to do that.....

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freddie

freddie

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I must agree with several earlier posters who point out that Lisichka has not made any credible argument against using private tour operators in Egypt as opposed to the ships' tours there. It is totally preposterous to suggest that the terrible traffic conditions and driving styles there (which I have experienced) are limited to people on private tours.

 

How has she decided to "take the necessary precautions to keep my family safe"? Will she not take any sort of transport other than arranged by the ship? How in the world is that assured of keeping her family safe?

 

The whole tone of this OP thread seems to be aimed at slamming the particular tour company she used (which is completely different from the one we used) and indulging in the most flagrantly hysterical comment on touring in Egypt.

 

Really, Lisichka, you might want to consider chilling out a bit and trying to put travel into reasonable perspective. Whatever your agenda happens to be in this thread, it is highly suspect or of quite modest credence.

 

Cheers, Fred

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JordanF Great Review Rare

JordanF

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I have been to Egypt (for two weeks) and the only thing scarier than being in a vehicle is being a pedestrian!

 

My experience with ship's tours is that they are usually pretty good and are likely to have a reasonably safe driver.

 

My experience with private tours has been anywhere from excellent to terrible, including tales of harrowing rides.

 

The key, I think, is research. If you take a ship's tour, the cruise line has usually done this for you and hired a good company. If you go private, a few good sessions on Cruise Critic can go a long way!

 

My main preference for a ship's tour in Egypt is more based upon the fact that Cairo is a long way from Alexandria, and I would be nervous about missing the ship. That might be unfounded, but it would detract from my enjoyment of the tour nonetheless. To each their own.

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MercedMike

MercedMike

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We have seen the ship wait multiple times for cruise ship tours.

 

I would be interested in hearing why and when they have not done so.

 

Thank you to Lisichka for posting. There are many of us out here that do appreciate what you have to say.

 

It is unfortunate that those that didn't agree with you, would not ever consider a ship's tour, and feel that a private tour is the only way to see anything have to dispute your postings. Sometimes just posting and not returning to rebute these comments is the best alternative.

 

Having read these boards for many years you will find any recommendation of taking a ship's tour will result in the same type responses that you have received. These boards are supposed to be for the benefit of all even those that do prefer a ship's tour but rarely do you find an absence of negative responses to those posts. When someone posts inquiring about a certain ship's tour immediately they are told not to take it but rather take a private tour. Had you not posted recommending a ship's tour in Egypt you might not have had all of the negative responses but rather others just relating their experiences.

 

.

 

1) I have also on several occasions seen the ship wait for delayed ship's tours. I have also on several occasions seen the ship wait for independent passengers. I am sure all of you remember hearing those announcements, at every departure.

 

But -- I have, on two occasions in 34 cruises, seen the ship leave ship's excursion passengers behind. There are consideration the Captain must observe, for example tides, local laws, travel time to the next port and so on. The operation and safety of the ship come before excursion pax. I have also on several occasions seen pax running down the gangway as the ship departs, but it is my feeling that they spent their time in a bar and not on a private tour!

 

I have also, on several occasions, seen the ship embark without arriving pax, whether they were on cruise/air or independent air.

 

SO - reaching the ship in time is a valid consideration. It is not entirely black and white between private or ship's excursions.

 

2) Of course there is a definite tendency on this board toward independent excursions. But I believe this post is overstating the case. I constantly recommend ship's excursions as well as independent ones, and normally receive cordial comments and a good lively discussion. On those occasions that a poster does vehemently insist that ship's excursions are to be avoided, I almost always post a respectful disagreement with them. So it cuts both ways. Opinions of all shades are what is the most useful thing about this board.

 

My point above, however, is that these posts that start out ******warning****** (At least the OP avoided "***WARNING!!!!!***) frequently generate the most vociferous comments. A more neutral topic usually produces a more neutral discussion.

 

3) Boy, let me tell you about the traffic in Morocco! A street with 4 lanes each direction holds traffic 16 lanes across -- cars, buses, cabs, minicabs, scooters and donkey carts. You should have seen our caravan of 12 horse drawn buggies make a left turn across such a street! I sure wish I knew Arabic profanity because there was a lot of it to learn. In Egypt all we did was almost rear end a water buffalo.;)

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Bop

Bop

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Well said Mike!

 

If vociferous comments is what you want, try the X Boards!:eek: I know, I shouldn't have said that. I retract.

 

The only times we have been late for the ship were on Princess tours and we heard the Grand blowing for us miles from the port in Kusadasi. The second time was on a trip to the Normandy Beaches. Our driver got lost, ran into a brick wall turning around and made our visit to the American cemetery a running tour of about 35 minutes. Most of us have seen the sprinting PAX arriving to cheers and boos from those on board. We actually had a couple running for the ship just under weigh from Adelaide Australia and the crew lowered a cargo ramp so they could jump on.

 

Danger abounds throughout the world and we travelers must try to minimize our risk taking. Rick Steves has a good article somewhere on his site discussing this. Our group, who have traveled together for a while, had quite a debate concerning Ship tours vs. private for our upcoming Holy Land tour. We concluded that the larger Princess buses would put us more at risk as a larger, impersonal cruise ship group (target) than a smaller van, driven by a local entrepreneur who lives down the street. I realize that driver style and ability is a different matter that we have little control of but often, I believe, we are talking about the same group of tour guides whether it be cruise tour or private tour. Often the private "graduate " from the ranks of cruise ship drivers.

 

When I have a very good or bad experience with a private guide, I will post my e-mail address on the Boards and reply specifically to anyone interested.

 

Thanks for all your good tips and advice on the Boards. I think you were one of the very first people I corresponded with back on the old AOL Boards. I may take your advice and take a float in the Dead Sea. If you can do it, so can I.:D

 

Take care and good cruising.

Jim from VA

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simonv

simonv

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That's the way they drive in Egypt. I don't think tour operator would make any difference. Californians tend to drive defensively, and to us the East Coast drivers are scarely. But if you drive in East the way we do in California, it's dangerous. Same way in Cairo or Istanbul for that matter. We used A&K in Cairo, a top of the line operator there, and the driver was excellent, but extremely aggressive. If he wasn't, we wouldn't have gotten anywhere among the Cairo drivers.

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California Native

California Native

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. Californians tend to drive defensively, and to us the East Coast drivers are scarely. But if you drive in East the way we do in California, it's dangerous.

 

 

As a California Native ....I will respond to this...

We drive defensively because half the world has immigrated legally and illegally to California...

Many driving without a drivers license...

In the SFO Bay Area, just in the last 3 months we've had about 12 law abiding US Citizens killed or critically injured by NON US Residents driving here.

Have you seen video or experienced drivers

in Egypt, Vietnam, Mexico, China and India ??????????

 

Somehow many of those drivers think they can drive HERE as they do in their homeland

 

Laws of the road HERE are ignored

THAT's why we drive defensively and offensively...

It wasn't always like this...

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smeyer418

smeyer418

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As a California Native ....I will respond to this...

 

 

We drive defensively because half the world has immigrated legally and illegally to California...

 

Many driving without a drivers license...

 

In the SFO Bay Area, just in the last 3 months we've had about 12 law abiding US Citizens killed or critically injured by NON US Residents driving here.

 

Have you seen video or experienced drivers

 

in Egypt, Vietnam, Mexico, China and India ??????????

 

Somehow many of those drivers think they can drive HERE as they do in their homeland

 

Laws of the road HERE are ignored

 

THAT's why we drive defensively and offensively...

 

It wasn't always like this...

 

 

Do you really thinks its only the new comers who drive badly? And your anecdotal stories don't prove anything....the number of traffic deaths are down on California Highways....

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