Navy ship fire caused by smoking

[vjmatty]

This is seeming like one of those issues that matters much more here than it ever does while actually on a cruise ship. Smokers and non-smokers continue to cruise regardless of what is said on these threads, yet are neither suffering from nicotine withdrawal while cruising nor dying of lung cancer from second-hand smoke on ships.

It is a shame that discussion about such a positive activity as cruising has to degenerate into the the negativity on these threads.

[sail7seas]

[quote name='neverpar']hhmmm that sounds right......and I'm sure that the cruise lines will listen to you while you rant and rave [IMG]http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Unhappy/unhappy-057.gif[/IMG] ...unless you pull yourself together and ask or complain nicely...but it doesn't seem like that will happen! [IMG]http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Unhappy/mad-047.gif[/IMG][/quote]


[B]Ranting and raving is definitely not my style.[/B]
[B]Actually, I have made little to no comment while aboard nor on my end of cruise surveys about smoking until now. [/B]

[B]It will be topic number one on my 'discussion list' on all of our upcoming cruises. Calmly, succintly, to the point.[/B]

[B]IMO, it is time all the cruise lines start to follow suit what most states/countries are now instituting as smoking/non-smoking policies.[/B]


[B]JMO...... ;)[/B]

[Eeyoregon]

[quote name='sail7seas']
[B]IMO, it is time all the cruise lines start to follow suit what most states/countries are now instituting as smoking/non-smoking policies.[/B]


[B]JMO...... ;)[/B][/quote]

I agree. Slowly but surely they are catching on. I frequent Disney and Celebrity and both have FINALLY banned smoking in your cabin and on your verandha...YAH!!!!

The one and only time I forked out the big $$ for a balcony I got to enjoy the chain smoker next to me 24/7 and was unable to open my balcony door or it would suck all of the smoke into my room :eek: . The ship was sold-out so moving wasn't an option.

Now if Las Vegas would step it up like Atlantic City has. :rolleyes:

[Eeyoregon]

[quote name='bakechef']My niece took these while in Norway, looks to me like they are trying to curb smoking there!

[IMG]http://lh3.ggpht.com/brenda.poppins/SItiEv811TI/AAAAAAAAAH4/agEGpB_IGoc/DCFC0002-10.JPG?imgmax=512[/IMG]

[IMG]http://lh3.ggpht.com/brenda.poppins/SItiFq-FjMI/AAAAAAAAAIA/l7eHejFWqSE/DCFC0003-6.JPG?imgmax=512[/IMG]

[IMG]http://lh6.ggpht.com/brenda.poppins/SItiGk_wWmI/AAAAAAAAAII/tNI2Dw5pL8I/DCFC0004-5.JPG?imgmax=512[/IMG]

MAC[/quote]

Your post reminded me of when I was at a black jack table in Vegas last year. This Canadian lady sits down next to me and sets her cig pack on the table. The picture on the pack was of a lung cancer diseased lung. It almost made me throw up. Wish the USA would put stuff like that on the packages and boxes.

[Chris41]

Smokers should be banned because Anti smokers don't like the smell
I don't like strong perfume so anyone wearing it should be banned
I don't care for garlic smells....Ban those that eat it
I don't care for the smell of a person with gas.....Ban them
Some people that take vitamins and natural suppliments omit an odor...Ban them
Who or what else should we kick off the ship?
Second hand smoke can hurt you so cant emmisions from exhaust...Cruise ships put out a LOT of exhaust....Shall we shut them down
Well I'm done being foolish. YES I am a smoker....No I'm far from being poor or uneducated.....I will stay to my designated areas on the ship and anti smokers can stay to thiers. I will share the common areas that don't allow smoking and respect your rights. Don't come into a smoking area and disrespect mine and make a big scene.....Before I came to CC I never knew the militant folks I was cruising with. I must say THANK YOU for the very amusing arguments here they make my time here in Iraq go quicker while I wait for my Medcruise in a couple weeks.
Have a very pleasant day....Chris

[abcten]

[quote name='Chris41']Smokers should be banned because Anti smokers don't like the smell
I don't like strong perfume so anyone wearing it should be banned
[/quote]

A couple of thoughts on this.

First, even though the nasty smell of tobacco smoke is horrid, the more important issue is the death and disease that second hand smoke causes to innocent victims.

Second, it seems odd that smokers bring up heavy perfume use. I would assume that most heavy users of perfume are smokers since smokers will be trying to mask the nasty stench of stale tobacco smoke. Smokers know that smoking [COLOR=#0033cc][FONT=Verdana]will make their hair, clothes, body, mouth, tongue, etc. reek of tobacco smoke and therefore they take extra steps (including using too much perfume) to cover up the stench.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[abcten]

[quote name='Eeyoregon']I agree. Slowly but surely they are catching on. I frequent Disney and Celebrity and both have FINALLY banned smoking in your cabin and on your verandha...YAH!!!!

The one and only time I forked out the big $$ for a balcony I got to enjoy the chain smoker next to me 24/7 and was unable to open my balcony door or it would suck all of the smoke into my room . The ship was sold-out so moving wasn't an option.

Now if Las Vegas would step it up like Atlantic City has. [/quote]

Sorry to hear about the chain smoker on the balcony next to you. How filthy and gross. What a way to ruin a balcony you had paid extra for and probably looked forward to using and relaxing on. A true shame.

But, as you point out, cruise lines are finally starting to, belatedly, get with the program like the rest of the world and further restrict smoking. It's about time. [COLOR=#0033cc][FONT=Verdana]Won't it be great when we finally become smoke free? It will happen, but may take a while. Yep, I can just envision it now. Someday our grandchildren or great grandchildren won't have to deal with the negative health effects of smoking. In fact, I can imagine a conversation I might have with my little 8 year old grand daughter some day. It might go something like this,[/FONT][/COLOR]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Hi, Grandpa [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Well, hi Katie, how's my little 8 year old sugar pie doing today? [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Oh, I'm fine grandpa. Say grandpa, Mommy told me I should come to talk with you about something.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]OK, darling, what's that.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Mommy said that even though smoking cigarettes is not allowed today, back when you were my age people were able to smoke pretty much anywhere. Is that true?:eek: [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Yes, I'm afraid so. When I was young you had people who could smoke pretty much anywhere. In bars, restaurants, office buildings, just about anywhere. Then it was slowly phased out. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Ooohh, yuckie. :( So you mean they could just spew their nasty smoke into the air and other people had no choice but to breathe it?[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]I'm afraid so, pumpkin. Those were certainly the bad old days wouldn't you say.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]I'll say, iiikkkk.:mad: But, grandpa, I read at school that the second hand smoke caused diseases and death to people other than the smoker. Yet it was still allowed to happen?[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Unfortunately it was, darling.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]That seems so bad.:( It seems like people should have been able to do something to stop those bad old smokers.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Well, darling, what could you do? I mean it was just accepted then.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Well, grandpa, I think people should have been able to do something. I think if I saw a smoker smoking inside a building, I would go up to that person and give them a punch right where it counts. Just like Mommy always says. That would teach 'em.:mad: [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Oh, goodness now, sugar pie, what grade are you...[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Yeah, and then after that, I think we should take their...[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Whoa, whoa, whoa, here, sweetie. You're kind of getting into some areas that maybe you should talk with Mommy about. How about we go get some ice cream? :) [/COLOR][/FONT]

[Steamboatin]

[quote name='abcten']A couple of thoughts on this.

First, even though the nasty smell of tobacco smoke is horrid, the more important issue is the death and disease that second hand smoke causes to innocent victims.

Second, it seems odd that smokers bring up heavy perfume use. I would assume that most heavy users of perfume are smokers since smokers will be trying to mask the nasty stench of stale tobacco smoke. Smokers know that smoking [COLOR=#0033cc][FONT=Verdana]will make their hair, clothes, body, mouth, tongue, etc. reek of tobacco smoke and therefore they take extra steps (including using too much perfume) to cover up the stench.[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

Why are perfume users only women. Do not male smokers have the same problem.

Lets band women now.:D

[ikelmay]

[quote name='abcten'] I would assume that most heavy users of perfume are smokers since smokers will be trying to mask the nasty stench of stale tobacco smoke.[/quote]

Can't wait for this one to catch fire........ this is a bit of a stretch surely? I know some very nice non-smokers who are challenged in the nasal department and are simply unaware of how much perfume they apply - of course it may depend on how diplomatic the spouse is.

[snoodel]

[quote name='abcten']Sorry to hear about the chain smoker on the balcony next to you. How filthy and gross. What a way to ruin a balcony you had paid extra for and probably looked forward to using and relaxing on. A true shame.

But, as you point out, cruise lines are finally starting to, belatedly, get with the program like the rest of the world and further restrict smoking. It's about time. [COLOR=#0033cc][FONT=Verdana]Won't it be great when we finally become smoke free? It will happen, but may take a while. Yep, I can just envision it now. Someday our grandchildren or great grandchildren won't have to deal with the negative health effects of smoking. In fact, I can imagine a conversation I might have with my little 8 year old grand daughter some day. It might go something like this,[/FONT][/COLOR]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Hi, Grandpa [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Well, hi Katie, how's my little 8 year old sugar pie doing today? [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Oh, I'm fine grandpa. Say grandpa, Mommy told me I should come to talk with you about something.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]OK, darling, what's that.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Mommy said that even though smoking cigarettes is not allowed today, back when you were my age people were able to smoke pretty much anywhere. Is that true?:eek: [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Yes, I'm afraid so. When I was young you had people who could smoke pretty much anywhere. In bars, restaurants, office buildings, just about anywhere. Then it was slowly phased out. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Ooohh, yuckie. :( So you mean they could just spew their nasty smoke into the air and other people had no choice but to breathe it?[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]I'm afraid so, pumpkin. Those were certainly the bad old days wouldn't you say.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]I'll say, iiikkkk.:mad: But, grandpa, I read at school that the second hand smoke caused diseases and death to people other than the smoker. Yet it was still allowed to happen?[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Unfortunately it was, darling.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]That seems so bad.:( It seems like people should have been able to do something to stop those bad old smokers.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Well, darling, what could you do? I mean it was just accepted then.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Well, grandpa, I think people should have been able to do something. I think if I saw a smoker smoking inside a building, I would go up to that person and give them a punch right where it counts. Just like Mommy always says. That would teach 'em.:mad: [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Oh, goodness now, sugar pie, what grade are you...[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Yeah, and then after that, I think we should take their...[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Whoa, whoa, whoa, here, sweetie. You're kind of getting into some areas that maybe you should talk with Mommy about. How about we go get some ice cream? :) [/COLOR][/FONT][/quote]

WOW,, thanks,,
I had a feeling what the agenda was before now,, but after reading this,, I feel you are not here for sharing cruise stories,, just spreading hate and discontent. If it doesnt look like you, talk like you or act like you,, its wrong..
And I am a non smoker.
I will pray,, that I am never seated next to you, nor staying in a cabin beside you,, let alone on the same ship..

[navybankerteacher]

[quote name='Chris41']Smokers should be banned because Anti smokers don't like the smell
I don't like strong perfume so anyone wearing it should be banned
I don't care for garlic smells....Ban those that eat it
I don't care for the smell of a person with gas.....Ban them
Some people that take vitamins and natural suppliments omit an odor...Ban them
Who or what else should we kick off the ship?
Second hand smoke can hurt you so cant emmisions from exhaust...Cruise ships put out a LOT of exhaust....Shall we shut them down
Well I'm done being foolish. YES I am a smoker....No I'm far from being poor or uneducated.....I will stay to my designated areas on the ship and anti smokers can stay to thiers. I will share the common areas that don't allow smoking and respect your rights. Don't come into a smoking area and disrespect mine and make a big scene.....Before I came to CC I never knew the militant folks I was cruising with. I must say THANK YOU for the very amusing arguments here they make my time here in Iraq go quicker while I wait for my Medcruise in a couple weeks.
Have a very pleasant day....Chris[/quote]

Equating essentially harmless, or unavoidable, fumes with smoking misses the point Smoking is known to be harmful -- to the smoker as well as to bystanders. While it is clearly a difficult habit to break, common sense - and common courtesy, dictates that EACH side of the argument allows the other "breathing room". One person's non-smoking does not hurt the smoker at all -- whie the smoker's smoking does hurt the non-smoker. Accordingly, while the smoker should be permitted his/her rights (including the right to self-destruct), the rights of others need to be observed as well.

[kingfish78734]

[quote name='abcten']Sorry to hear about the chain smoker on the balcony next to you. How filthy and gross. What a way to ruin a balcony you had paid extra for and probably looked forward to using and relaxing on. A true shame.

But, as you point out, cruise lines are finally starting to, belatedly, get with the program like the rest of the world and further restrict smoking. It's about time. [COLOR=#0033cc][FONT=Verdana]Won't it be great when we finally become smoke free? It will happen, but may take a while. Yep, I can just envision it now. Someday our grandchildren or great grandchildren won't have to deal with the negative health effects of smoking. In fact, I can imagine a conversation I might have with my little 8 year old grand daughter some day. It might go something like this,[/FONT][/COLOR]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Hi, Grandpa [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Well, hi Katie, how's my little 8 year old sugar pie doing today? [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Oh, I'm fine grandpa. Say grandpa, Mommy told me I should come to talk with you about something.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]OK, darling, what's that.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Mommy said that even though smoking cigarettes is not allowed today, back when you were my age people were able to smoke pretty much anywhere. Is that true?:eek: [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Yes, I'm afraid so. When I was young you had people who could smoke pretty much anywhere. In bars, restaurants, office buildings, just about anywhere. Then it was slowly phased out. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Ooohh, yuckie. :( So you mean they could just spew their nasty smoke into the air and other people had no choice but to breathe it?[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]I'm afraid so, pumpkin. Those were certainly the bad old days wouldn't you say.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]I'll say, iiikkkk.:mad: But, grandpa, I read at school that the second hand smoke caused diseases and death to people other than the smoker. Yet it was still allowed to happen?[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Unfortunately it was, darling.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]That seems so bad.:( It seems like people should have been able to do something to stop those bad old smokers.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Well, darling, what could you do? I mean it was just accepted then.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Well, grandpa, I think people should have been able to do something. I think if I saw a smoker smoking inside a building, I would go up to that person and give them a punch right where it counts. Just like Mommy always says. That would teach 'em.:mad: [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Oh, goodness now, sugar pie, what grade are you...[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Yeah, and then after that, I think we should take their...[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]Whoa, whoa, whoa, here, sweetie. You're kind of getting into some areas that maybe you should talk with Mommy about. How about we go get some ice cream? :) [/COLOR][/FONT][/quote]

So, if someone were to take your advice and try to punch me in the nose for smoking in a designated smoking area, I sure hope they have fun trying to find their way back home after being kicked off the ship at the next port......after they regain consciousness I mean.

[ikelmay]

[quote name='abcten'][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#0033cc]I think people should have been able to do something. I think if I saw a smoker smoking inside a building, I would go up to that person and give them a punch right where it counts. Just like Mommy always says. That would teach 'em.:mad: [/COLOR][/FONT]

[/quote]

How about imagining teaching a grandchild some useful life lessons instead? I know a chain smoker on an adjoining balcony isn't what any of us signed up for, but hey while it's still permitted, it's a lottery. Perhaps a quiet engaging word would help work something out between you - I know it's worked for me in the past and we all got along great.

[G'ma]

[quote name='bakechef']I am not sure where you get the idea that I thought that I was better or in a higher class than this person, that is all in your head. Actually this person and I are in the same job level, I don't know what her hourly wage is, but I can bet it is pretty close to mine.

I just get tired of this type of co-worker whining about their financial struggles while spending huge amounts of money on cigarettes, beer, and soda. It would be the same as if I complained about being broke all the time, while going on a cruise every year.

I'm not sure if you find being rude a charming trait or not, but I don't, and I am sure not many others do either. Find someone else to harass, I would rather deal with someone with class and social grace, two things that you seem to lack.

MAC[/quote]

It must be agreed that what a person chooses to spend his discretionary income on is his own business.

Once again, I am requesting that you stop with the personal remarks. Here is the CC guideline on that:

Cruise Critic is committed to providing an online environment that is free from these types of harassing postings. [COLOR=red]Please, don't attack another poster or group of posters. Do not harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything else to another member that is unwanted. This means: don't say bad things about them,[/COLOR] don't keep sending them unwanted Instant Message notes, don't attack their race, heritage, or their sexual orientation, etc. [COLOR=red]If you disagree with someone, respond to the subject, not the person. Postings of this nature will be removed from the boards[/COLOR].

Thank you.

[G'ma]

[quote name='tip']I choose not to go into smoking areas on the ships. BUT I have the right to enjoy my balcony (which I have paid big bucks for) without having to breathe second hand smoke from someone next door.

It is not illegal to [B]fart[/B] on my balcony, but I would never expose the guy next door to me to it!

It is not illegal to [B]burp[/B] and [B]belch[/B] on my balcony, but I would never expose the guy next door to it!

It is not illegal to be [B]loud [/B]and [B]obnoxious[/B] on my balcony, but I would never do that to the guy next door!

It is not illegal to [B]play country and western music or opera [/B]on my balcony, but I wouldn't think of doing it because it would be socially unacceptable to do so.

And no I won't keep my trap shut when folks are impinging on the air that I breathe![/quote]

Passing gas, belching and burping are fine and permitted---just like smoking.

However, loud and obnoxious as well as playing music is not permitted.

[G'ma]

[quote name='sail7seas'][B]I get it.[/B]

[B]Those who are NOT doing the offensive activity that bothers others should go to a cruise line where that legal but offensive activity is not permitted. Those who bother others are well within their rights, of course, and can blithely tell us to 'get lost'.[/B]

[B]AND we have to ask permission to complain. :eek:[/B]

[B]Do I understand?[/B]
[B]What we non-smokers have to do (those who are bothered by smoke) is to make our wishes LOUDLY known by the cruise lines. That we (the VAST majority) do not wish to be subjected to the poisons of second hand smoke. The louder we speak, the more of us who speak, the sooner we will not be shunted off to 'other' cruise lines and can enjoy our verandas, all indoor and outdoor spaces without the smell and discomfort of smoke.[/B]

[B]Cruise lines....... Please listen, please hear us, we shall Roar![/B]
[/quote]

Well, when the "vast majority" of moaners, complainers and whiners can fill cruise ships to full occupancy, 365 days a year, then they'll stop the smoking.

But, fact is, it's not possible.

The moaners and complainers can't even give a decent showing at the casino if there is a night of "nonsmoking" fun.

Cruise companies are in the business to turn a profit. They are not going to disenfranchise 1/3 of their market to accommodate others.

Roar all you want. The times it was tried, it failed.

You have choices.....Azamara and Oceania come to mind but there are many others where smoking is severely restricted to only 1 or 2 places on the ship. I suggest you give them all your business so they will be able to maintain that policy.

[vjmatty]

[quote name='abcten']I would assume that most heavy users of perfume are smokers since smokers will be trying to mask the nasty stench of stale tobacco smoke. [/quote]

How can they afford the perfume if they are in the low economic level of society and paying almost $10 per pack to boot? ;)

[abcten]

[quote name='vjmatty']How can they afford the perfume if they are in the low economic level of society and paying almost $10 per pack to boot? ;)[/quote]

You raise a valid point. Maybe some smokers could weigh in on the subject and let us know if they:
a) use perfume in an attempt to mask the stench of tobacco smoke, or
b) say, to heck with it, and not use perfume figuring they will smell bad regardless so what is the use in trying to cover it up.

[sail7seas]

[quote=G'ma;15711082]Well, when the "vast majority" of moaners, complainers and whiners can fill cruise ships to full occupancy, 365 days a year, then they'll stop the smoking.

But, fact is, it's not possible.

The moaners and complainers can't even give a decent showing at the casino if there is a night of "nonsmoking" fun.

Cruise companies are in the business to turn a profit. They are not going to disenfranchise 1/3 of their market to accommodate others.

Roar all you want. The times it was tried, it failed.

You have choices.....Azamara and Oceania come to mind but there are many others where smoking is severely restricted to only 1 or 2 places on the ship. I suggest you give them all your business so they will be able to maintain that policy.[/quote]


[B]I agree that 1/3 of the guests being smokers would carry much more heft BUT there are no where near 1/3 of the guests as smokers these days. There are far fewer in society and cruising....the numbers have decreased drastically for one reason or another. The most you'll find smoking now is more like 20% but that can still build a smokey haze in a lounge.[/B]

[B]As to the Casino..... HAL and other lines are having more and more smoke free nights. They wouldn't be doing that if the numbers dropped. You're right it is all about the bottom line.[/B]

[B]The threat of smokers leaving is far less severe than the threat of non-smokers leaving if the cruise lines don't have restrictive smoking policies. Would you rather risk 20% of your business or a large group out of 80%?

Why do smokers always try to shoo the non-smokers to other cruise lines? It's not going to work. I wouldn't dream of leaving HAL after about 60 cruises with them. We know it is only a matter of short time until smoking will be severely limited on ALL the lines.

[/B]

[bakechef]

[QUOTE=G'ma;15695977]I don't "act", I mean it. There is a pseudo superiority that is prevalent in some of the posts here that smacks of ignorance and intolerance....neither of which are admirable traits and defy social standards.

There are no classes in our country. We are all equal here. How much money a person makes or has is totally irrelevant as far as freedom of choice is concerned. One person may smoke, another may enjoy fine wine or liquor, another may have to have the latest gadget or newest car or biggest home or most children. It is all the same. It is a classless society..... Remarks made to the contrary are simply idiotic.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=G'ma;15710980]It must be agreed that what a person chooses to spend his discretionary income on is his own business.

Once again, I am requesting that you stop with the personal remarks. Here is the CC guideline on that:

Cruise Critic is committed to providing an online environment that is free from these types of harassing postings. [COLOR=red]Please, don't attack another poster or group of posters. Do not harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything else to another member that is unwanted. This means: don't say bad things about them,[/COLOR] don't keep sending them unwanted Instant Message notes, don't attack their race, heritage, or their sexual orientation, etc. [COLOR=red]If you disagree with someone, respond to the subject, not the person. Postings of this nature will be removed from the boards[/COLOR].

Thank you.[/QUOTE]

You really need to take your own advise and read the rules, it baffles me that you feel that you are above following them yourself.

This will be my last response to you, even if you try to bait me even more.

MAC

[ikelmay]

Well' date=' when the "vast majority" of moaners, complainers and whiners can fill cruise ships to full occupancy, 365 days a year, then they'll stop the smoking.

 

The moaners and complainers can't even give a decent showing at the casino if there is a night of "nonsmoking" fun.

 

[/quote']

 

I'm not too sure where the fine line is between being assertive and forthright, and being rude............. somewhere close i think.

[G'ma]

I agree that 1/3 of the guests being smokers would carry much more heft BUT there are no where near 1/3 of the guests as smokers these days. There are far fewer in society and cruising....the numbers have decreased drastically for one reason or another. The most you'll find smoking now is more like 20% but that can still build a smokey haze in a lounge.

 

As to the Casino..... HAL and other lines are having more and more smoke free nights. They wouldn't be doing that if the numbers dropped. You're right it is all about the bottom line.

 

The threat of smokers leaving is far less severe than the threat of non-smokers leaving if the cruise lines don't have restrictive smoking policies. Would you rather risk 20% of your business or a large group out of 80%?

 

Why do smokers always try to shoo the non-smokers to other cruise lines? It's not going to work. I wouldn't dream of leaving HAL after about 60 cruises with them. We know it is only a matter of short time until smoking will be severely limited on ALL the lines.

 

 

Well, it would never be my intention to shoo anyone away from their favorite cruiseline. However, if someone chooses to cruise on a ship where smoking is permitted, that person needs to zip their lip.

 

The logic you've used is a little flawed. Firstly, MOST nonsmokers don't have a problem with people who smoke as long as the smokers are obeying the rules of the moment and not smoking in areas where it isn't permitted. So, MOST nonsmokers wouldn't stop cruising because of smoking passengers. I'll bet that most rabid anti-smoking folks won't quit either. They'll just continue to moan and complain while cruising right along with the smokers.

 

If it were more profitable, some cruiselines would do away with smoking....but it's not. Smokers money spends just as well - and in many cases better - than nonsmokers. The bread and butter of the cruise industry is groups, groups, groups...and they won't get the group bookings if they don't permit the use of tobacco.

 

The nirvana some look for is available on certain ships. On most, it will never be - especially the mass market cruise companies.

[neverpar]

Let's not forget group sales of the cruise lines, a large group equates to BIG $$ for the cruise lines....and in most of those groups are smokers....if they ban smoking all together they lose the group sales....;)

[sail7seas]

.......

The logic you've used is a little flawed. Firstly' date=' MOST nonsmokers don't have a problem with people who smoke as long as the smokers are obeying the rules of the moment and not smoking in areas where it isn't permitted. So, MOST nonsmokers wouldn't stop cruising because of smoking passengers. I'll bet that most rabid anti-smoking folks won't quit either. They'll just continue to moan and complain while cruising right along with the smoker [/quote']

In your opinion, of course. ;)

 

I do not agree with you that MOST nonsmokers don't have problem with smoke. MANY stay silent as they do not want to take the heat that people speak up are subjected to. You base that statement on what? Their silence? :rolleyes: Have you read the surveys being conducted on some of the ships? Have you been told the privileged info contained in the polls some cruise lines are doing?

 

 

 

 

If it were more profitable, some cruiselines would do away with smoking....but it's not. Smokers money spends just as well - and in many cases better - than nonsmokers. The bread and butter of the cruise industry is groups, groups, groups...and they won't get the group bookings if they don't permit the use of tobacco.

 

In your opinion, of course. There are many things that are done when groups charter a ship. IMO....

Smoking certainly could be one of those things. They can lighten up the smoking rules when a ship is chartered. As to smaller group charters, once again, back to majorities. Seeing as the percentage of those who smoke in society is small, most groups would also have few smokers. Percentages, percentages, percentages.

 

Smokers on ships are a disappearing act. IMO

 

Their numbers lessen yearly.

 

[/b]

 

The nirvana some look for is available on certain ships. On most, it will never be - especially the mass market cruise companies.

 

Never is a very long time. :D

[smeyer418]

look the smoke from the ships diesels engine's are just as bad....so you better stay off the open decks. Also I am pretty sure that Oceania doesn't have casino's so their restrictive smoking policies don't have any effect on those who want to cruise and gamble(they make it up with high priced excursions)...

 

 

If you look at old movies everyone smoked. They were showing a series on when we left the earth(the story of Nasa) and everyone in the control room smoked like chimneys...I personally don't like smoking but reasonable people should be able to come to a reasonable accommodation(including non-smokers staying out of the smoking section if it bothers them)...

 

but this thread has gone so far a field it should be closed. Its like sex before marriage....some do and some don't and its just as dangerous...