Farewell to QE2's Funnel?

[bobnatt]

But is not Bobnatt just as entitled to air his views here as anyone else. Most people on this board have a very particular view of the QE2. He happens to have a different view. Even though he has not sailed on it surely he is entitled to his opinion on the fact of her disposal. Is one not entitled to comment on the situation in Zimbabwe if one has never been there? As far as I can remember it is the manner in which the ship’s devotees tend to over-egg the pudding when talking about it that prompts his comments as indeed it does mine from time to time.True he has an irreverent style of expressing his self, as do I, but he makes some valid points and I have noticed a tendency to greet his posts with a fair amount of personal criticism.

 

The whole thing about the last days of this ship is assuming the status of a Greek tragedy. And it is not a tragedy. What it is, is a superannuated ship being disposed of by its owners because either it is no longer a viable business proposition or they have made the judgement that they can make more money by selling it than by running it. If there was a couple more dollars profit still to squeezed out of it greater than the purchase price then they would run it and run it until those enormous engines fell straight through her rusted out hull.

 

My frequently aired views on the deification of this ship are well known on this board, however, (there’s that pesky word again), in all seriousness, no one can deny that it is indeed a beautiful ship. And yes, it has more log under its bottom than any other. It played its part, as did the earlier Queens in a war. It has ferried thousands to a new life in the new world and thousands more have sailed on it for pleasure and business. There are millions of memories tied up in this boat and it holds a very special place in many, many hearts. Its unique outline has made it instantly recognisable the world over and thus it has become iconic.

 

But new ships are being built every day, new designs; more efficient power plants, different in practically every aspect from the 40-year-old Queen. And who knows, one of these new vessels may capture the imagination as she has done. The sanctification of the QM2 is already well under way. (Although I well remember many of the people who visited her in New York when the tandem crossing took place coming back to the QE2 with nothing but derision for this upstart ‘floating apartment block’. The condemnation was almost universal, I lost count of the number of times I heard the phrase, ‘Well you won’t catch me on it’. ‘Vulgar Monstrosity’. It was too big, it was too common, it had too much plastic.) Well I wonder how many of those people have since sailed on it. And let us not forget that in a very few years there will be a generation of cruisers who have never been on the QE2 and don’t know anyone who has and will have never seen it except in pictures. They will have their own icons, perhaps a ship not yet built. So while it is sad it is not a tragedy.

 

There is a tragedy though, and it is not the departure of this one ship. The tragedy is that any future ship which may become as well loved as this one obviously is will not be built in the UK. Therein lies the tragedy; the loss of the great shipbuilding yards and the skills, professions and crafts that went with them. The designers and draughtsmen, the platers, riveters, welders, the crane drivers and engineers, the labourers and the tea boys. The tragedy is in the extinction of steelworks that supplied the yards, the factories that were ancillary to the yards, and which provided the joinery and the carpets, the linens and the furniture and the thousand and one things needed for the big ships. The tragedy lies in the disappearance forever of the tiny one and two man operations that supplied the unique, the ‘one-offs’, the widgets and the sprocket-rockers. The tragedy lies in the fragmentation of the shipbuilding communities that serviced this great industry with the concomitant creeping rot of long-term unemployment and welfare dependency. It lies in the generations who have never had the pride, self-respect and self discipline that regular satisfying employment brings

Billy Connolly the Glasgow comedian worked in the yards and used to tell stories of his time there. A line of his has always remained with me. He said that every July the school gates would open on one side of the street and the shipyard gates on the other and the leaving class of that year would just cross over. A simplistic version of the actual event but it makes the point very neatly.

 

So when the QE2 makes her final voyage the tragedy will not lie in the voyage itself but in the fact that she is the last tangible link to a once great industry and power house of employment that was the lifeblood of Glasgow, Belfast, Liverpool and Tyneside and the other cities that grew and flourished on shipbuilding. From a nation of builders, engineers and craftsmen we are reduced to money manipulators and burger flippers.

 

So those of you who will be on board for the final trip, when you lift your glasses in salute, toast not just a ship which has reached the end of its seagoing life, but toast also a world vanished forever. Enjoy your last trip, if I’m honest I wish I was going myself.

(If only to prove that the bloody thing has actually gone).

I know that to many of you it will be an emotional and sad experience. Cheer up – ‘This too will pass’ just book another cruise.

 

On a slightly jarring note. I see from previous posts on the board that there seems to be a certain amount of salivating anticipation at the prospect of stealing as much as can be carried off this ship which is supposed to be so respected. A bit distasteful don’t you think It smacks a little of corpse robbing on a battlefield. Especially considering the reverence in which the ship is reputedly held.

Gari

 

well said; a lot better than I have ever done.

[RMSLaconia]

Here here.

 

Eloquently put.

 

Q

[garigoun]

well said; a lot better than I have ever done.

 

Hush Bob hush, are you trying to ruin my reputation entirely?

Gari

[cruisegal101]

Hush Bob hush, are you trying to ruin my reputation entirely?

Gari

 

 

Looks like a done deal to me. ;)

[garigoun]

Looks like a done deal to me. ;)

 

 

Oooh. that hurt.

G.

[cruisegal101]

Oooh. that hurt.

G.

 

Not as badly as the fleas will! :p

[garigoun]

Not as badly as the fleas will! :p

 

Soooo! The truth admitted at last. All you felix fanciers out there are in reality sharing your home with a parasite breeding ground. No wonder cat owners look so healthy. That's not a glow of health it's just the redness caused by scratching. No wonder cat owners cruise so much -- itchy feet.

G.

[cruisegal101]

Soooo! The truth admitted at last. All you felix fanciers out there are in reality sharing your home with a parasite breeding ground. No wonder cat owners look so healthy. That's not a glow of health it's just the redness caused by scratching. No wonder cat owners cruise so much -- itchy feet.

G.

 

LOL--guess the old line about lying down with dogs might also apply to felines. Never before had I given this a bit consideration!:rolleyes:

[vjmatty]

But is not Bobnatt just as entitled to air his views here as anyone else. Most people on this board have a very particular view of the QE2. He happens to have a different view. Even though he has not sailed on it surely he is entitled to his opinion on the fact of her disposal. Is one not entitled to comment on the situation in Zimbabwe if one has never been there? As far as I can remember it is the manner in which the ship’s devotees tend to over-egg the pudding when talking about it that prompts his comments as indeed it does mine from time to time.True he has an irreverent style of expressing his self, as do I, but he makes some valid points and I have noticed a tendency to greet his posts with a fair amount of personal criticism.

 

Of course he is entitled to his opinion, but when a poster comes here and not only misrepresents facts but also makes comments just get a rise out of people, as he has admitted to doing, then he is no longer merely expressing an opinion.

 

I appreciate debate, particularly with smart people who disagree with me... but Bob is not a debater. He throws a Molotov cocktail into a thread then disappears to watch the reaction. He has admitted to this in another thread, and has also admitted he does not care for the fanfare surrounding the QE2. Why go into a topic you have no interest in and start taking issue with those who do? That is not intelligent discourse... that is instigation for the purpose of creating drama and conflict.

 

For example, I have no interest in golf. At all. What would be the purpose of my going onto a golf forum and talking about what a waste of time I think it is to smack a ball several hundred feet, find it and then hit it again instead of putting it in your pocket and considering yourself lucky you found the damn thing. Or asking golfers why when the ball goes into the water does the club have to go in after it? There would be no purpose in my posting on a golf forum other than to create drama among its members. Yes I am entitled to express my opinions on golf but they would lend little if any value to the forum other than causing conflict within. Why would anyone want to do that if they have a life that is fulfilled with better things to do?

 

That, my sailor friend, is the difference. ;)

[bobnatt]

Of course he is entitled to his opinion, but when a poster comes here and not only misrepresents facts but also makes comments just get a rise out of people, as he has admitted to doing, then he is no longer merely expressing an opinion.

 

I appreciate debate, particularly with smart people who disagree with me... but Bob is not a debater. He throws a Molotov cocktail into a thread then disappears to watch the reaction. He has admitted to this in another thread, and has also admitted he does not care for the fanfare surrounding the QE2. Why go into a topic you have no interest in and start taking issue with those who do? That is not intelligent discourse... that is instigation for the purpose of creating drama and conflict.

 

For example, I have no interest in golf. At all. What would be the purpose of my going onto a golf forum and talking about what a waste of time I think it is to smack a ball several hundred feet, find it and then hit it again instead of putting it in your pocket and considering yourself lucky you found the damn thing. Or asking golfers why when the ball goes into the water does the club have to go in after it? There would be no purpose in my posting on a golf forum other than to create drama among its members. Yes I am entitled to express my opinions on golf but they would lend little if any value to the forum other than causing conflict within. Why would anyone want to do that if they have a life that is fulfilled with better things to do?

 

That, my sailor friend, is the difference. ;)

 

 

If you recall my initial comment on this thread it was a legitimate reaction to those complaining about changes which will be made to the QE2 once it leaves Cunard and moves on to its next life.

 

Folks, you don't get it. The ship will no longer be the QE2 even though it may retain its name. You have no right to demand that the new owners not make changes that they think are necessary to protect their economic interests. At the end of the day it is a bunch of recycled steel being molded into a new use as a luxury hotel.

quote]

 

You may not agree with my statements but it certainly a legitimate view as noted by a few other folks on this thread who have similar opinions.

My Adirondack neighbor I realize that I may have gotten under your skin but it is not my fault as my opnion was well within the bounds of reasonableness...

[vjmatty]

I am not sure how it is you think this statement:

 

<<You have no right to demand that the new owners not make changes that they think are necessary to protect their economic interests.>>

 

is accurate or reasonable. What demands? Did somebody call Dubai and make threats or issue an ultimatum? Has anyone said they were going to contact the new owners about what they should to with the QE2? I read it as a hope that they will try to learn from the mistakes made in Long Beach.

 

Why is it that you can tell people what they have the right to say and then call foul when they take issue with your words?

 

If you are going to come here and tell people what they have "the right" to say on a public message board, you can't be alarmed when the rest take issue with it. To say otherwise is as hypocritical as you are calling everyone else. It is this lack of logic and consistency that is under my skin, not you personally. I guess I have issues with people who dish it out but can't take it.

[garigoun]

Of course he is entitled to his opinion, but when a poster comes here and not only misrepresents facts but also makes comments just get a rise out of people, as he has admitted to doing, then he is no longer merely expressing an opinion.

 

I appreciate debate, particularly with smart people who disagree with me... but Bob is not a debater. He throws a Molotov cocktail into a thread then disappears to watch the reaction. He has admitted to this in another thread, and has also admitted he does not care for the fanfare surrounding the QE2. Why go into a topic you have no interest in and start taking issue with those who do? That is not intelligent discourse... that is instigation for the purpose of creating drama and conflict.

 

Why would anyone want to do that if they have a life that is fulfilled with better things to do?

 

That, my sailor friend, is the difference. ;)

 

Yes Ok VJ, but you know this don't you? It's what he does. Everyone knows this. However, it does not mean that his posts are totally valueless. He has made some pertinent comments. So why do replies to Bob so often contain a personal element? From your posts VJ it is obvious that you are a man of letters,have an excellent command of our beautiful language so why resort to exhortations to 'get a life'. Reply in kind without personalising it. Lots of people, well most people I suspect, don't agree with my views on the QE2, or rather on the idolisation of the QE2. God knows I've made them plain enough. But apart from a couple of insulting replies to my very first post on this board I've not suffered the kind of villification that Bobnatt has. Maybe I'm on a lot of 'ignore' lists who knows.

I too like to have a bit of spice on the board otherwise it just reads like a cabin and restaurant prospectus. But if I have anything helpful to contribute to anyone's queries then I do. Although given the wealth of Cunard experience on here that is a rare event indeed.

(Incidentally with ref to your golf analogy, I hate golf, that is I hate people obsessively talking about golf, which they do. So I might find a golf board and go and lob a few hand grenades.)

Let Bob have his fun. Don't get upset. Reply in kind if you reply at all. Or put him on your naughty list and 'Ignore'. Maybe he's jealous (unlikely) maybe he is world weary with being so rich (impossible), maybe he is suffering from ennui and requires stimulation; maybe he is in fact a little old lady in Buttkcik Arkansas who posts as a refreshing change from clipping coupons. Perhaps, just thought of this, he may be a mischievous elf sent by P & O to bring down the Cunard Empire.

Now see what we've done, we've exchanged two longish posts about someone you don't like. Who was it said 'there is no such thing as bad publicity'.

What about the greater part of my original post? which was concerned with the icon, the last trip, and the disposal thereof . Do you agree, disagree, couldn't give a flying (insert your noun of choice)? What

 

Gari

[vjmatty]

Yes Ok VJ, but you know this don't you? It's what he does. Everyone knows this. However, it does not mean that his posts are totally valueless. He has made some pertinent comments. So why do replies to Bob so often contain a personal element? From your posts VJ it is obvious that you are a man of letters,have an excellent command of our beautiful language so why resort to exhortations to 'get a life'. Reply in kind without personalising it. Lots of people, well most people I suspect, don't agree with my views on the QE2, or rather on the idolisation of the QE2. God knows I've made them plain enough. But apart from a couple of insulting replies to my very first post on this board I've not suffered the kind of villification that Bobnatt has. Maybe I'm on a lot of 'ignore' lists who knows.

I too like to have a bit of spice on the board otherwise it just reads like a cabin and restaurant prospectus. But if I have anything helpful to contribute to anyone's queries then I do. Although given the wealth of Cunard experience on here that is a rare event indeed.

(Incidentally with ref to your golf analogy, I hate golf, that is I hate people obsessively talking about golf, which they do. So I might find a golf board and go and lob a few hand grenades.)

Let Bob have his fun. Don't get upset. Reply in kind if you reply at all. Or put him on your naughty list and 'Ignore'. Maybe he's jealous (unlikely) maybe he is world weary with being so rich (impossible), maybe he is suffering from ennui and requires stimulation; maybe he is in fact a little old lady in Buttkcik Arkansas who posts as a refreshing change from clipping coupons. Perhaps, just thought of this, he may be a mischievous elf sent by P & O to bring down the Cunard Empire.

Now see what we've done, we've exchanged two longish posts about someone you don't like. Who was it said 'there is no such thing as bad publicity'.

What about the greater part of my original post? which was concerned with the icon, the last trip, and the disposal thereof . Do you agree, disagree, couldn't give a flying (insert your noun of choice)? What

 

Gari

 

I appreciate your compliment on my use of words however I am the woman on the right in the picture, not the man on the left. In fact, I am afraid if these were his posts they would be much more eloquent than I could ever hope to be... but I digress. I didn't mean to imply "get a life", it was more of a "what is the point, isn't there enough in life to be entertained with?"

 

I guess I have to remember that those of us who litigate human misery and deal in drama as a career might be more wary of it than those who do not. It would probably explain why I don't understand the world's fascination with reality TV.

 

I don't recall making any insulting replies to or about your post... but I did not find your post offensive. At no time in promoting the acceptance of what's done is done have you put down those who like to discuss the history and soon-to-be-history of the Cunard liners. That is the difference.... I can accept that some posters don't find this talk interesting but like most of us liberals say "if you don't like it you can turn it off". ;)

[garigoun]

I don't recall making any insulting replies to or about your post... but I did not find your post offensive. ;)

 

You didn't VJ , I was refering to my first on the CC board way back in August.

Gari

[vjmatty]

You didn't VJ , I was refering to my first on the CC board way back in August.

Gari

 

 

Well come on gari, take sympathy on your elders.. I can barely remember things I posted yesterday :o

 

I thought you were talking about the post you made this morning on this thread... which I failed to mention I did enjoy reading, by the way. There is much in there I did not know and learned quite a bit. I do disagree that keeping our ID cards is stealing... or was that not you on a prior thread who took issue with this practice? As I said, my memory for fine details isn't what it used to be after hitting forty. :(

[garigoun]

Well come on gari, take sympathy on your elders.. I can barely remember things I posted yesterday :o

 

I thought you were talking about the post you made this morning on this thread... which I failed to mention I did enjoy reading, by the way. There is much in there I did not know and learned quite a bit. I do disagree that keeping our ID cards is stealing... or was that not you on a prior thread who took issue with this practice? As I said, my memory for fine details isn't what it used to be after hitting forty. :(

 

 

Oh no no no Vj I'm not having that. You're 40, 40 and claiming age related amnesia priveliges , why you're nothing but a slip of a gel. Wait another 30+ years and you'll find out about err..err.. you know, thing, wotsit. Let's see, what did I come in here for? glasses? glasses? no got them on my head, the paper, no no read that, let me think, I was in the lounge and I walked to here and then ... Ah got it now KEYS, that's it, where are my keys, the last time I had them.... Oh where was I?

 

The ID cards, VJ that WAS a totally different thread, do try and keep up girl. Write yourself a note about things. But no, I wasn't refering to keeping ID cards, a harmless if pointless practice IMO. If I could be bothered to search the house I would probably find a couple myself stuck in the back of a drawer and if I did I'd dump them. I don't keep any of the bumf from the cruises, menus, daily programmes etc. But that's me, nobody has yet plumbed the depths of my shallowness. No, my take on the ID card thread was simply this. Anyone who cruises in whatever grade, Queen's grill, or the inside cabin next to the lamp-trimmer's mate, Cunard, Costa or whatever, is, ipso facto one of life's fortunates At least in a material sense. Think about it, we are carted about the beautiful places of the world in luxury; fed like fighting cocks; waited on hand and foot and entertained every spare moment should we so desire. Therefore to whinge about not being allowed to keep a piffling bit of plastic exactly the same as the other 2,999 piffling bits of plastic on that cruise, seems to me to be ... sorry lost for the word here. That's all.

 

By the way, sorry for the gender mix up earlier. The avatars are deceiving, I am actually a six foot 6 beautifully proportioned athlete.

Now.. the keys, I could have sworn I .........

Gari.

[vjmatty]

Maybe I am just paranoid.... Dad has Alzheimers so I am probably having some type of psychological panic-induced fits of amnesia from time to time since the disease is genetic. I know in the grand scheme of things 40 isn't old but my body seems to think otherwise. I won't get into the list of examples to illustrate this as it is too depressing, but what is most disappointing about the experience is that I really did approach 40 with a positive attitude, saying it is just a number and that numbers are not important to me unless they have dollar signs in front of them ;) Plus, the older you get, the world respects you more....and even if a few don't, you really don't care. I guess it is a fair trade off when you consider the alternative.... I would never want to go back to my 20's and all the insecurities that come with that age. :rolleyes:

 

Here is what it is about the cards, and I can't speak for anyone else but myself, but they are a way of memorializing that we were on the final crossing of QE2.... our names, the QE2 and the date of the final crossing from NY which for some of us is an historical event are all on that cheap piece of plastic. If someone had such a card from the Queen Mary or the Queen Elizabeth or the SS France or the SS United States (if these cards had existed back then of course) I would think that to be a special memento, not because of its monetary value of about 10 cents, but its historical value.

 

Some of the most valuable pieces of history are not the unique or expensive items but the mundane pieces of daily life tied to an historical person or event. When those mundane items document and memorialize one personally to said event, they take on more significance. At least this is the case for why I want my card. Doesn't mean I won't buy other more decorative and substantial memorabilia, but the card is a nice little reminder to keep on my desk, and to look at on a bad day to remember not all of life is about work. :)

[garigoun]

Here is what it is about the cards, and I can't speak for anyone else but myself, but they are a way of memorializing that we were on the final crossing of QE2.... our names, the QE2 and the date of the final crossing from NY which for some of us is an historical event are all on that cheap piece of plastic. If someone had such a card from the Queen Mary or the Queen Elizabeth or the SS France or the SS United States (if these cards had existed back then of course) I would think that to be a special memento, not because of its monetary value of about 10 cents, but its historical value.

 

Some of the most valuable pieces of history are not the unique or expensive items but the mundane pieces of daily life tied to an historical person or event. When those mundane items document and memorialize one personally to said event, they take on more significance. At least this is the case for why I want my card. Doesn't mean I won't buy other more decorative and substantial memorabilia, but the card is a nice little reminder to keep on my desk, and to look at on a bad day to remember not all of life is about work. :)

 

All this is true VJ,and in the case of the final voyage well that is an event

to rememberand I am sure that Cunard will provide you with some lovely (free) bits and pieces commemorating the event as they did for the first tandem crossing.

 

But to say as the OP did that it was a Major Disappointment when after all it was just a standard cruise, and who was then offered adivce on who to lie to obtain one on future occasions, sorry, just can't get my head round that.

That thread however led to some people becoming offended so I'll shut up about it now.

You and your husband are dancers I believe, so just make sure that you have the very last dance on the very last night. That will be something worth remembering and a story to bore your family with for years to come.

Gari

[RAL72]

There's no doubt that to those of us who know QE2 well, she will be largely unrecognisable in Dubai except, perhaps, for her bridge and hull.

 

The thing that gets me, is that Cunard's initial announcements all used word like 'preserved' and 'restored' which meant they got an easy ride and nobody complained too much "oh I suppose its for the best then".

 

The captain's speech when I was on board in August made it clear that Cunard are concerned about what the QE2 regulars are thinking about the plans and trying to address them now. There was gasps of horror from the crowd when the Captain said about the funnel - they think she'll be preserved - what will they think when she's not?