Woman missing on the Pearl

[cruisinMike]

Maybe they have insight into her medical history and mental state.

 

Ya think!

 

I believe it was the last time this happened, the hounds and houndettes (mostly houndettes) were out looking for blood. There were threads where posters wanted to string the guy up. It reminded me of the witch hunts you might read about in the 16 hundreds or so.

[AdMaven]

I don't think this guy is that old! and a 40 year old arrest is hardly an indication that he is the same person! Rumors innuendo! and an arrest is NOT a conviction....

 

Please lets try not to hang someone and then get the facts!

 

I think that 1969 date is a mistake because all the other dates on the web site for the incident are 2008. 1969 may be his birth date but it couldn't have been the date of the arrest. The incident was April 2008.

 

Here's some of the info the prior poster failed to post:

 

04/19/2008 FIRST APPEARANCE HEARING

04/19/2008 PROBABLE CAUSE ESTABLISHED

04/19/2008 RELEASED TO PRETRIAL SERVICES

04/19/2008 MOORMAN ,J MARION PUBLIC DEF APPOINTED

04/19/2008 PROVISIONAL ORD/APPOINTING PUBLIC DEFENDER

04/19/2008 $40 PUBLIC DEFENDER APPLICATION FEE DUE

04/19/2008 ROGER A ALCOTT PRESIDING JUDGE

05/07/08 08:30 AM M8 STREET ARRAIGNMENT

04/19/2008 ORDER GRANTING PRE-TRIAL RELEASE

04/19/2008 IF DEFT POSTS BOND, TO BE SUPERVISED BY PTR

04/19/2008 ROGER A ALCOTT PRESIDING JUDGE

04/21/2008 AFFIDAVIT COMPLAINT/CITATION FILED

(Snipped--check link)

06/02/20080 01 NOLLE PROSSED08001 NOLLE PROSSED

[stanford's girl]

I don't want to offend anyone, but come on. Anyone who honestly thinks that informing all the passengers of the situation would actually have helped and not hindered the investigation is, in my opinion, completely unrealistic. There would have been even more speculation than there already was, there would have been panic among some of the passengers, there would have been multitudes of false information (both due to mistaken identity and people who just thought it funny to screw with investigators), there would have been people constantly interrupting investigators because they were convinced that their 'information' was vital, there would have been people all over the ship thinking they were helping by performing their own investigation - not to mention those that would have been badmouthing the investigators (like on this thread, etc.) and causing even more issues. We're talking about THOUSANDS of humans, including hundreds of children (if someone goes overboard while we're on the Pearl in two weeks, I do NOT want my child informed, thank you). I rarely say 'never', but it would take an incredibly convincing argument for me to believe that informing all the passengers would have been a good idea.

Very well said and I totally agree with you!! :)

[cruisinMike]

I really don't see ANY family even offering the hint of a suggestion that their family member would commit suicide unless they had real reason to do so. They knew her mental status better than any of us do.

 

And even those who are in the deepest, darkest depression will have moments, days or hours when they "seem" to be doing well. Like others, I'm not willing to let the husband completely off the hook. Could have been that he was inflicting some sort of mental cruelty that sent her over the edge.

 

But it is still a horrible thing to have happen ... not just to the family but to the crew who had to do deal with it and all of those who had their holiday ruined as well.

 

hmmmmmm "Could have been that he was inflicting some sort of mental cruelty that sent her over the edge."

 

Or maybe she was a cc member and decided she had enough with the smoker and chair hog threads.

 

Give me a break.

[CanadianTwosome]

In the article I posted above, it states (at the end of the story) that the day after she went missing he was headed to the casino with a plastic bag of quarters and told a fellow pax that he was "going to change his luck". Very strange behavior indeed.

 

It does sound strange, doesn't it? Then again, strange for whom? Have you ever had your spouse go missing on a cruise ship? When my grandmother died, I went to work a couple of days later thinking that I was clear headed and fine and they thought it best to send me home when I was the only one that didn't realize that my shoes were different colours. Shock, denial, or even a standard gambling addiction could have all led to exactly the behaviour described.

[OldBaldGuy]

"...door card readers will clearly indicate whether the poor lady was alone in her room or not..."

 

Huh? On both of our cruises we had three adults to a cabin. Probably 90% of the time all three of us went into the cabin on one card, usually mine, since I am the guy, and I was brought up to open doors for the ladies. The door had no idea who entered the cabin other than myself...

[KULPN]

A cruise with a loved one is always a fantasy of the perfect vacation. You wait & wait & then it is there. Maybe they didn't get along as well as she'd hoped..maybe they argued, maybe worse. Maybe she thought the dark deep water looked like relief from how she was feeling and that "she'd show him & punish him." Too bad death is permanent & that didn't solve anything. Too bad she didn't chicken out at the last minute. I think it was suicide. I think he may be guilty of not showing her enough of what she needed to see on this important Christmas cruise. He didn't cause her death though. I think she had "issues." Maybe that is why she took off her wedding rings?

My father committed suicide 19 years ago....tough on the family left behind. Easier on the one doing something in a moment of insanity.

Sad...

[ImpulsivePuppy]

The door had no idea who entered the cabin other than myself...

 

I just have to say that that sentence strikes me as very funny! :p:D

[runner26.2]

with the card readers they will know what time the door was opened. they can then check to see who is entering via video. Obviously it won't help with who is leaving, but they can view smaller portions of video to see when it is someone exits the cabin.

 

For example. All they have to do is watch the video from 8pm onwards down the hallway where the cabin is. if the husband go INTO the cabin AFTER 8:15 and then he couldn't have been there when the lady fell as cameras indicate that happened at 8:08 or so.

[peg013]

"...door card readers will clearly indicate whether the poor lady was alone in her room or not..."

 

Huh? On both of our cruises we had three adults to a cabin. Probably 90% of the time all three of us went into the cabin on one card, usually mine, since I am the guy, and I was brought up to open doors for the ladies. The door had no idea who entered the cabin other than myself...

 

 

The door may not have known but the cameras in the hallway would show that all three of you entered the room. Camera's are everywhere other than IN the cabins and restrooms.

[MaryPoppinz]

Here's some of the info the prior poster failed to post:

 

I just chose not to post it because my only point was to highlight a possible date discrepancy in the court record being discussed.

 

I can't imagine someone witnessing something like this and not reporting it until their memory is jogged by an investiagor's question. ("Now that you mention it.....") So, I would rather not have the ship alerted to every person who goes missing nor would I like to have details of an incident like this shared with passengers who have nothing to contribute to the investigation.

 

My condolences to her family and others who loved her.

[NowVoyager908]

"...door card readers will clearly indicate whether the poor lady was alone in her room or not..."

 

Huh? On both of our cruises we had three adults to a cabin. Probably 90% of the time all three of us went into the cabin on one card, usually mine, since I am the guy, and I was brought up to open doors for the ladies. The door had no idea who entered the cabin other than myself...

 

That may be true, but I believe there are also cameras in the hallways that capture who's going in and out. If and when the cameras are synced to the cards, they will probably have a good idea of the timeline of who came and went.

[sumrgurl01]

Originally Posted by knjfaith

i don't mean the exact cabin...but did anyone catch in the video of the FBI gathering evidence an idea of what floor, catergory it was?

 

The cabin number was 11122 on deck 11. It was a mini-suite.

 

Updates and photos:

http://www.bittenandbound.com/2008/12/29/jennifer-seitz-update-info-on-raymond-seitz-photos-and-video/

[mactrio]

I think its horrible that Norwegian didn't tell the other passengers about this. Who knows what someone else could have added to the story??

 

and then things would have been really messed up. I can hear it now "my mommas friends cousin said that they were fighting?" or "my dads uncles friend said he hit her?" or "I heard he pulled her hair and my aunts friend saw it"

 

why should NCL tell anyone? It was either a suicide or a homicide and if it was a homicide, it wasn't a random murderer walking into cabins pushing people over the balcony.

If you are staying at the Holiday Inn and a woman commits suicide, should the front desk call every room and tell them? I think NCL did what they are supposed to do in a case like this. They can risk being sued for slander (if they say she jumped and she didn't and vice versa) and then someone sue happy person will sue them for announcing it to the pax and traumatizing them. It's a no win situation and best to keep it quiet.

[GROOVERS]

Huh Oh.................Maybe some mistake,,,,, huh?:D

 

We're booked in minisuite 11025, I will mark that number down.............................

[cougar]

I agree passengers should not have been notified. NCL will have a procedure in place for this and informing all passengers could distract from this procedure. I understand humans are curious....but thousands of people were on vacation and deserve to enjoy that time, (No disrespect intended to the victim or family). I'm sure the passengers that needed to be questioned were and that would be passed off to the FBI and if need be they could get in contact with any of the passengers that were on board.

[peanutJMV]

I am with you-if it was my husband or child that went overboard, I would have to be sedated because I would be hysterical-not heading to a casino. But I guess we all deal with grief differently.

 

I agree I would be devastated to say the least.

 

I dont believe he was heading to the casino with a "bag of quarters". like someone else quoted, casino slots dont take or payout coins anymore.

If it is true, no one mentioned "When" the husband was heading to the casino, could have been before the incident.

 

--Also the party in the room directly under them stated "8pm a girl was yelling, dont hit me", how come he was able to hear that but not the poor woman jump!. I believe it stated the incident happened approx 8pm. Only way I find he could have heard comments was if he was on the balcony and both balcony cabin doors were open-- If that were the case, he would have seen or heard her hit the water.

 

Someone also commented about the chair next to the balcony railing, husband/mom wouldnt see that unless he went out there, the room stewards close the curtains at night.

 

-These rumors are disgusting, that poor woman obviously took her own life , I sympathize with her family. Im certain the FBI already knows the whereabouts of the Mom, Husband and has the video of the leap off the balcony.

 

To take your own life like that, you obviously are suffering from some major mental issues.

My prayers go out to the family..

 

How sad!

[M&MCruisin]

MSNBC just reported Raymond Seitz had a domestic violence charge in 2008 (you can search using his name here) and it was discharged.

 

Also, according to this article, the timeline isn't as originally reported.

 

But a statement released today by the her family and her husband's family offers new details of her disappearance and revealed a new witness: Ellis-Seitz's mother accompanied the couple on the cruise.

 

She and her son-in-law discovered her daughter missing around 2 a.m. Friday. Jennifer Ellis-Seitz often walked the ship when she couldn't sleep, according to the family, so her husband and mother decided to search the ship for her.

When they couldn't find her, they reported her disappearance to ship security at about 3:30 a.m.

 

the problem with the timeline and his statement is that video shows her overboard at 8pm...not the middle of the night, so I doubt she was sleeping, but it is possible....this would mean that mom and hubby were not in the room at the time and she jumped. Then they returned and didnt think it odd she was gone, so they waited..thinking she was roaming the ship and didnt look for her until 2am. I thought the cruise line indicated it was 5am. It just doesnt add up. Im glad they had the video though. Hubby may not have physically pushed her, but that doesnt mean he didnt mentally "push her over the edge" if you will.

[cb at sea]

It'd be almost impossible to "fall" off the ship---unless you were trying to climb from balcony to balcony, foul play is the easiest and most likely explanation!

[EmmasNana]

Oh, Terry, honey bunny...I feel your pain and just wanted you to know. I am also in Texas and if you need a shoulder let me know...:)

[cruisinMike]

It'd be almost impossible to "fall" off the ship---unless you were trying to climb from balcony to balcony, foul play is the easiest and most likely explanation!

 

Of course it is and that is why we don't let the general public decide what the facts are.

 

Last spring, ship's cameras confirmed that the women who disappeared from her ship was alone in her cabin and fell while trying to climb across balconies. Of course this was after the hanging of the significant other on these threads.

[AdMaven]

I just chose not to post it because my only point was to highlight a possible date discrepancy in the court record being discussed.

 

I posted it because the other poster then assumed it was a 40-year old arrest. It wasn't.

[derf5585]

how come he was able to hear that but not the poor woman jump!.

 

I wonder how loud of a splash she made

 

Question

If she committed suicide would she scream

If she was pushed I think she would scream and for how long?

[KULPN]

so many threads on this. I think she jumped. I think she had reason to believe she had nothing to live for. How scary! I also think he is probably less than an ideal husband.

[M&MCruisin]

Do we really know what the sequence of events was for the woman, her husband or mother-in-law?

 

On our Alaska cruise I had taken Benadryl before dinner and then had two of glasses of wine, which knocked me out. By 8 pm my partner had taken me back to the cabin to sleep it off and he headed out the rest of the night. I woke up at 4 am. He could have been missing from 8 pm till 4 am before I could have raised an alarm.

 

By then I was then wide awake and left the cabin and he did not wake up till about 7 am. Say he went to bed at 1 am and I fell overboard at 4:30 am, he would not have raised an alarm till maybe 8 am.

 

You would most likely have jumped in with foul play innuendos in those cases too - without knowing what really happened.

 

wow...why are you attacking me. Its a discussion. The question was...how long would you wait to report your significant other missing...if you dont want to answer, fine, but dont be rude. Geesh. Everyone is different and I thought it would be interesting to find out how others handle the situation.

 

BTW...you are right...no one knows what really happened and there have been TONS of innuendos on this thread, but you chose to attack me. Interesting. Sorry I rubbed you the wrong way with my post, its just a discussion.

 

And...no one "falls overboard"...they are pushed or they jump. So in your example, I would be questioning your hubby or feel very sad that you chose that end.