Cruise Critic member in Israel, happy to answer questions

[CrucianGal]

Ruth,

It's like life anywhere else only at a slower pace and with beautiful water and scenery. I work at a place frequented by tourists and I always get asked what's it like living on an island? It makes me smile, because I think some people want to hear that I relax under a coconut palm at the beach everyday. Actually I spend most of the time doing regular things (laundry, grocery shopping, post office etc) I just get to do it on an island. I bet people ask you the same thing. It's just a normal life with moments of "ahhhhh":)

B'shalom,

Ellen

[happy trailer]

Hi Ellen!

 

I don't know how big St. Croix is, but I'm betting that at the end of the day, if you're in the mood, you can go to the beach and dip your toes in the Caribbean! (And maybe even lunchtime, too..)

 

We live in the Jerusalem hills, and love it, but we always say it would soooooo much better if the Mediterranean was at the bottom of our mountain, instead of an hour away :p

 

Wish I was going to be here to meet you on your next trip, but I'll be in the States next October, and- I'm planning to be on a Caribbean cruise :)

[happy trailer]

Since I haven't been to Haifa in several years, and so many are asking for suggestions on what to see, I decided to sign up for a one day tour of the city :)

 

The tour is on August 18. I'll post a quick review here when I get back.

 

Thought you'd like to see the itinerary, to get an idea of what Israelis think are 'to dos' in Haifa.

 

(This tour originates in Jerusalem, 8AM-7PM.)

 

Mt. Carmel (the Switzerland of Israel), Nesher Park, suspension bridge (longest in Israel). Haifa- Af Al Pi Chen Museum, boat ride in the bay. To the top of Haifa for a breath-taking view of the bay and the world famous, manicured Bahai gardens. On to Muchraka to see the very lush Jezreel valley below.

 

[i'm looking forward to seeing cruise ships in Haifa bay, too!]

[GreySkies]

I was in Israel last year with a Temple group led by the cantor. The guide that we had was excellent. Based on that, for those that are considering going to Masada, if you can get a tour through it, it's worth it. Don't spend precious time climbing up to it, though. I was sick as a dog that day, plus I was wearing black pants and a black t-shirt on a hot day, but I still found it interesting.

 

Ruth,

 

The group I was with visited an area that was ruins just outside the walls to the old temple (?). This area had the beginning and ending of an arch and had what were believed to be market stalls. It is a narrow strip of ruins. It has a mural or mosaic on the wall to the entrance where you get tickets. It is also overlooked by the current entrance for the Arabs to the mosque. I want to take my mother to this, but I have no clue as to the name. Do you?

 

Also, just out of curiosity, how far is it to Petra from Haifa and Ashdod?

 

Thanks for the help and previous information.

[happy trailer]

 

The group I was with visited an area that was ruins just outside the walls to the old temple (?). This area had the beginning and ending of an arch and had what were believed to be market stalls. It is a narrow strip of ruins. It has a mural or mosaic on the wall to the entrance where you get tickets. It is also overlooked by the current entrance for the Arabs to the mosque. I want to take my mother to this, but I have no clue as to the name. Do you?

 

Hi,

 

The arch is called 'Robinson's Arch' and the area you are referring to is part of the Davidson Center/Jerusalem Archaeological Park. I did a Google search, and there are so many websites with info on it, that I thought it would be best if I included the link to the Google search:

 

http://www.google.co.il/search?q=davidson+center+jerusalem&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

Also, just out of curiosity, how far is it to Petra from Haifa and Ashdod?

 

The usual jumping off place to Petra from Israel is Eilat, which is at the far southern point of Israel, on the Red Sea, bordering both Taba, Egypt, and Aquaba, Jordan. Petra is around a 2-3 hour ride from there.

 

Eilat is 3 + hours from Ashdod, and over 5 hours from Haifa, so you would be looking at at least 8 hours to get to Petra, likely more because of the border crossing.

 

It's certainly not a day trip from either Haifa or Ashdod, and even an overnight trip would be a stretch, unless you were to fly from Ben Gurion airport (outside Tel Aviv) to either Eilat or Amman, Jordan, and travel to Petra from there. The flight from Ben Gurion to Amman is less than half an hour, and the overland trip from Amman to Petra is about 4 hours. [The flight from Ben Gurion to Eilat is about 45 minutes.] As far as I know, there are no airports at Petra.

 

HTH!

[HRHMadonna]

Thank you so much for your posts...what a wealth of useful information!

 

Our cruise ship will dock one day at Haifa and the following day at Ashdod. I just realized that the day we are at Haifa is a Saturday...How will that affect tours and sightseeing? Can we expect the major tourist attractions in Jerusalem & Bethlehem to still be open? We'd appreciate your advice on whether we should schedule Jerusalem & Bethlehem for Saturday from Haifa or wait until Sunday and arrange that tour from Ashdod?

 

Also, would appreciate anyone's input on this dilemma...What to do? :confused:

A day trip to the Dead Sea and Masada?

Or, a day trip to Nazareth & Galilee?

 

Thanks!

[happy trailer]

Thank you so much for your posts...what a wealth of useful information!

 

Our cruise ship will dock one day at Haifa and the following day at Ashdod. I just realized that the day we are at Haifa is a Saturday...How will that affect tours and sightseeing? Can we expect the major tourist attractions in Jerusalem & Bethlehem to still be open? We'd appreciate your advice on whether we should schedule Jerusalem & Bethlehem for Saturday from Haifa or wait until Sunday and arrange that tour from Ashdod?

 

Also, would appreciate anyone's input on this dilemma...What to do? :confused:

A day trip to the Dead Sea and Masada?

Or, a day trip to Nazareth & Galilee?

 

Thanks!

 

I don't know about Bethlehem, although I would imagine everything there will be open on Saturday, as the city is under Palestinian control (you will go thru a checkpoint as you enter and leave Bethlehem; Israelis are not permitted to enter the city).

 

You will experience a very different Jerusalem on Saturday than you would during the week- public buses do not run, and most stores and restaurants will be closed. Some streets are even closed to private vehicles.

 

Openings of tourist attractions vary from place to place. For example, Yad Vashem is closed on Saturday, but the Israel Museum is open.

 

If you are planning to book a private tour guide, then he/she is the best one to consult, as it's possible that you will still be able to visit the sights that are most important to you. However, if you are planning to visit on your own, then I'd suggest waiting until Sunday for your Jerusalem tour.

 

In any case, visiting Jerusalem from Haifa makes for a long day (it is doable, but I don't really recommend it). Adding Bethlehem to that day will give you very little time to see much of Jerusalem.

 

[bTW, it happens that I'm going on a one day bus tour of Haifa tomorrow. We leave Jerusalem at 8AM, and return at 7PM. There's not that all that much to see in Haifa, and still we aren't going to have time to see it all.]

 

If I can chime in on your 'dilemna':

 

If Christian holy sights are important to you, then I highly suggest you choose a day trip to Nazareth & Galilee. The area is beautiful, and it is filled with many significant and meaningful Christian sights.

 

HTH, and please don't hesitate to ask more questions! :)

[teemsum]

Hi

 

We are from Canada and will be arriving in Haifa on the Celebrity Equinox on Sep 07, 2009.

We would like to rent a car in Haifa and drop if off the next day in Ashdod.

 

Can this be done and do you know which car rental companies are available ?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

 

Cruisingly Yours

[happy trailer]

Hi

 

We are from Canada and will be arriving in Haifa on the Celebrity Equinox on Sep 07, 2009.

We would like to rent a car in Haifa and drop if off the next day in Ashdod.

 

Can this be done and do you know which car rental companies are available ?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

 

Cruisingly Yours

 

Hi,

 

If you look back at earlier postings in this thread, I believe you'll see that this question has been previously discussed; I also think it may have been discussed on another thread. In either case, it's the sort of question that other cruisers may be able to answer better than I can, so I suggest that you start a thread on the boards (if you can't find one where it's been discussed), and also pose the question on your roll call list.

 

The only thing I can tell you is that most of the major car rental agencies (Sixt, Avis, Hertz) are represented in Israel. I also think that other cruisers found that they needed to return the car by a certain hour (maybe 6?), and that they couldn't find a way to return the car past that hour.

 

Sorry I can't be of more help- we don't rent cars very often here, and have never rented in one city and dropped the car off in another. It really is the sort of thing for which other cruisers and tourists would be better sources of info :)

 

Good luck, and enjoy your cruise- bet you're starting to count the days!

[California Native]

Hi Ruth...

I'm hoping I'm just confused here..

I'm beginning our research this weekend for our 2010 cruise that ports 2 days in Israel.

I was reading about the new enforcement of entry into Israel if you have had your passport stamped by the Palestenian goverment.

If we were to travel to Bethleham as part of private tour would this cause us a problem to get back to the ship?

Thanks

K.

[happy trailer]

Hi Ruth...

 

I'm hoping I'm just confused here..

 

I'm beginning our research this weekend for our 2010 cruise that ports 2 days in Israel.

 

I was reading about the new enforcement of entry into Israel if you have had your passport stamped by the Palestenian goverment.

 

If we were to travel to Bethleham as part of private tour would this cause us a problem to get back to the ship?

 

 

Thanks

 

K.

 

Hi,

 

I can understand your confusion and your concern.

 

From my understanding, the new enforcement basically applies to someone who, upon entering Israel, declares that they intend to visit Palestinian areas in the West Bank. Their passports might then be stamped, "Palestinian Authority Only," which will likely hinder their return to Israel from Palestinian areas.

 

(This is a newly begun enforcement of a law which was passed a couple of years ago for security measures- Israel has had a couple of attacks by suicide bombers from European countries who trained in Palestinian areas and then entered Israel.)

 

I feel highly confident in saying that it won't affect cruise ship passengers who take a ship's excursion to Bethlehem. I'd also imagine that any passenger arriving on a cruise ship won't have a problem. Israel encourages and coddles its tourists, so I doubt someone who is on either an organized or private tour to Bethlehem is going to have an issue with this new enforcement.

 

Needless to say, your best source for the most current information at the time of your visit will be both your ship and the guide you hire.

 

And, keep in mind that for a variety of security and political reasons, things in Israel change frequently (sometimes it feels like weekly or even more often!). So, it's very possible that this new enforcement will either not be in effect or be barely in effect by the time you visit.

 

HTH, and eases your concern!

[happy trailer]

Not surprisingly, the government has issued a clarification of the new passport stamping rules.

 

This appears in today's newspaper:

 

"The Interior Ministry promised the Tourism Ministry last week that tourists who declare that they intend to enter only the Palestinian Authority will have their passports stamped "Palestinian Authority only," while tourists who declare they intend to visit both Israel and the Palestinian Authority will have their passports stamped with a regular B2 tourist visa, according to an internal memo from a senior Tourism Ministry official."

 

 

So, you definitely have nothing to be concerned about if planning to include a visit to Bethlehem during your stay in Israel :-)

 

 

[bTW- I'm pretty sure no one gets a Palestinian passport stamp. The issue was (and still is), if, upon entry to Israel, you declared that you were only going to be visiting Palestinian areas, then Israeli passport control stamped your passport with, "Palestinian Authority only."]

[California Native]

Hi!

Thank you so much for both your posts..

We will put Bethleham back on the list as an option during our short time in Israel!

K

[happy trailer]

Hi!

 

Thank you so much for both your posts..

 

We will put Bethleham back on the list as an option during our short time in Israel!

 

K

 

 

Glad I could ease your mind :)

 

I'm sure that even with such a short visit, you're going to fall in love with Israel!

[SteveS]

Hi Ruth,

 

Thank you for your advise tomorrow we leave for Israel. We will be in Tel Aviv Thursday through Mon. then on to Tiberias. Jerusalem Tues. - Thurs. Then the Dead sea and Elait.

 

I'm bringing my computer so I'll check the board.

 

Steve S

[happy trailer]

Hi Ruth,

 

Thank you for your advise tomorrow we leave for Israel. We will be in Tel Aviv Thursday through Mon. then on to Tiberias. Jerusalem Tues. - Thurs. Then the Dead sea and Elait.

 

I'm bringing my computer so I'll check the board.

 

Steve S

 

Hi Steve!

 

Have an easy flight! The weather is starting to cool down a tiny bit here, and there's even a touch of dampness in evening air where I live, so you're heading for pleasant touring days :)

 

If you want to get a great 'taste' of Israeli culture, then on Friday morning, while you're in Tel Aviv, walk along the seaside promenade towards the port (away from the direction of Jaffa; it's less than a 15 minute stroll from the Hilton). The port's outdoor tables will be overflowing with Israelis eating brunch and drinking coffee, and the promenade itself will be filled with exercisers and families. The earlier the better, as everyone likes to beat the heat. It's one of my favorite things to do in Tel Aviv! [And, you can treat yourself in the Max Brenner chocolate restaurant, at the far end of the port :-)]

 

Will you be traveling from Tiberius to Jerusalem via the Jordan Valley Road?

The scenery on that road is wonderful! I also LOVE the trip from Jerusalem to the Dead Sea- the first sight of the desert always gives me a thrill.

 

Are you driving to Eilat? If so, make sure to plan a stop at Mitzpe Rimon. It's the 'Israeli Grand Canyon'.

 

You're welcome to contact me me while you're here, and if you'd like to get together when you're in Jerusalem, let me know.

 

Have a great trip!

Edited August 26, 2009 by happy trailer

[cb-ozzie]

Hi Ruth,

 

Have thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts.

 

Like some previous posters, my friend and I are arriving in Israel on the Celebrity Equinox Sept. 29th to Haifa ( 10am - 10pm ), and on Sept. 30th to Ashdod ( 7 am - 7 pm ). What may be different from their queries is that, just last September, we were on a pilgrimage tour of Israel ( which I enjoyed immensely !! ). Thus, we have seen many of the beautiful sites that are on the ship's tours ( as well as many of those offered by private companies ). However, we do not want to stay on the ship these 2 days -- I want to see more.

 

For Haifa, in an earlier post, you mentioned this :

"If you want to do something different that isn't a long trip, go up north to Rosh Hanikra, which are white grottos on the border with Lebanon. You access them via cable car, and they are very pretty, but I think the most interesting and exciting part of that trip is learing the history of the tunnels built there, and especially seeing the border outpost and the delineation of the border along the sea. You also get wonderful views of the coastline."

How might I find out about such a tour ?

For Jerusalem, we do want to return to the Old City and re-visit the sites we were rushed through ( as is the case with many tours ) such as Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolorosa. We would also like to see the ethnic regions nearby. You had mentioned a walking tour for those. How might I get info for these ?

Last year, we noticed that there are 2 types of dates growing in Israel -- the ones we see which are the brownish ones from the tall palms, and the yellow ones from the short palms. These yellow ones were ripe as we tasted some. I would like to know if they are readily available.

Finally, a clarification. I have read about taxis -- is it best to approach and quote a price ( knowing that it should be about ~$70 US & ~240 NIS ) for atrip to the Old City of Jerusalem -- nicely, of course ? How about a shebut ? How difficult is it to get return transportation to Ashdod from the Old City ?

 

Thanks so much in advance for both reading my long post, and answering it.

 

Regards,

Christine :D:D:D

Edited August 29, 2009 by cb-ozzie

[happy trailer]

Hi Ruth,

 

Have thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts.

 

Thanks! I'm glad to be of help :)

 

For Haifa, in an earlier post, you mentioned this :

"If you want to do something different that isn't a long trip, go up north to Rosh Hanikra, which are white grottos on the border with Lebanon. You access them via cable car, and they are very pretty, but I think the most interesting and exciting part of that trip is learing the history of the tunnels built there, and especially seeing the border outpost and the delineation of the border along the sea. You also get wonderful views of the coastline."

How might I find out about such a tour ?

I've only done it by car- you can actually see Rosh Hanikra from Haifa; it's a short drive- about 25 miles away. So, one possibility is to rent a car - it's an easy (and safe) drive. Once you get to Rosh Hanikra, ask when the next English language intro film will be shown- it's well worth seeing, and is shown in English several times a day.

 

I did a google search for 'Tours from Haifa', and came up with several pages of results. CC regulations don't allow me to recommend any particular guide, so I'd suggest you take a look at the google search results and/or search this forum to see if anyone has done a tour out of Haifa (and, if necessay, post the question).

For Jerusalem, we do want to return to the Old City and re-visit the sites we were rushed through ( as is the case with many tours ) such as Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolorosa. We would also like to see the ethnic regions nearby. You had mentioned a walking tour for those. How might I get info for these ?

Again, google is your friend :) A google search for 'walking tours + Jerusalem' comes back with pages of results. Some of the tours are well known- you can read online reviews of them, or check them out on tripadvisor and other sites. And, again- use CC to search and pose :)

Last year, we noticed that there are 2 types of dates growing in Israel -- the ones we see which are the brownish ones from the tall palms, and the yellow ones from the short palms. These yellow ones were ripe as we tasted some. I would like to know if they are readily available.

When in season, you'll be able to find them in any supermarket, grocery store, or - the most fun- in the shuk (farmer's market) on Ben Yehuda in Jerusalem. If you go to the shuk, you'll see many different types of dates, and even stands which only sell dates; people can be very particular about their dates here (same for olives), and each type of date has its fans. You can even buy frozen 'reduced sugar' dates in the supermarket.

 

BTW- many people say that the best way to enjoy the yellow dates is to freeze them before eating :)

Finally, a clarification. I have read about taxis -- is it best to approach and quote a price ( knowing that it should be about ~$70 US & ~240 NIS ) for atrip to the Old City of Jerusalem -- nicely, of course ? How about a shebut ? How difficult is it to get return transportation to Ashdod from the Old City ?

If a sherut is waiting at the port (I'm not actually sure if there will be), then make sure it's going to Jerusalem and also ask if it will go to the Old City (I don't think it will). If it's only going to the center of town, you can either walk to the Old City (and easy 20-30 minute walk), or take a cab. Ask where you can get a sherut back to Ashdod, and how often they run.

 

Yes, you need to make sure you have the price set before letting the taxi driver start driving. I do my negotiating before I even get into a cab.

 

You need to make sure the driver knows you want to go to the Old City. It's a longer trip than just to downtown, with a lot of traffic, so the price may be higher.

 

You can ask him for the phone number of his company (or for his own phone number) to see if they will pick you up when you're ready to go back. If not, you can either try to hail a cab, or, if the driver you hail is not willing to go to Ashdod, ask him to call his dispatcher to find a driver who will.

 

I think your best bet would be to see how much your driver from Ashdod would charge you for a round trip. That way, you can arrange for a pick up time and place, and know you have transportation back to the ship. (Make sure you get his cellphone #, and needless to say, don't pay him the entire fare until you are back at the ship.)

Thanks so much in advance for both reading my long post, and answering it.

My pleasure ;)

[Everbest]

Hello Ruth,

I really enjoy reading your posts. Thank you for answering everyone's questions in such great detail.

My daughter & I will be in Haifa for only one day and we were wondering if we should visit the Druze village of Daliyat el-Carmel after we see the Bahai gardens. We're not taking a tour but would go on our own. Is there good transportation? Or do you think it would be better if we do find a tourguide?

[happy trailer]

My daughter & I will be in Haifa for only one day and we were wondering if we should visit the Druze village of Daliyat el-Carmel after we see the Bahai gardens. We're not taking a tour but would go on our own. Is there good transportation? Or do you think it would be better if we do find a tourguide?

 

On my recent one day tour to Haifa, we drove down the main street of Dalyat El Carmel on our way into the city, and to be honest, it didn't look like anything special to me, but it might be pleasant and interesting to stroll around for an hour or so. (Then again, the great mix of culture here is an everyday thing to me- which I love!- so you may need to take my opinion with a bit of salt ;))

 

However, I do know many people who have enjoyed a short visit to Dalyat, mainly for shopping. I did a quick google search for you, and am including links to two pages with descriptions of the town. Both mention that bus service from Haifa is very infrequent, but I have a feeling that the cab fare wouldn't be very expensive.

 

From what I read, I think hiring a guide would be a great idea, especially if they were able to give you insight into the Druze culture and religion.

 

Here are the links; one is from 'Go Israel', the other from Frommers:

 

http://www.goisrael.com/Tourism_Eng/Tourist+Information/Discover+Israel/Cities/Daliat+El-Carmel.htm

 

http://www.frommers.com/destinations/daliat-el-carmelandisfiya/3710010001.html

 

HTH!

Edited September 2, 2009 by happy trailer

[Everbest]

Thanks for the info Ruth. I think I will look into a guide after all.

[sizzle_sisters]

HI Ruth, maybe you could help the poster in the "convoy" thread. Do you know if you have to travel in convoys in Egypt?

And my question is: Is it better to try to do the Dead Sea from the port of Ashdod, or Haifa?

Should we be thinking of getting off ship in Ashdod (first stop) and not reboarding til after our third day, which is Haifa (ports > Ashdod one day then sail to Haifa for 2 days)

I'm trying to figure out distances between ports and what I want to see. Is this doable

- Dead Sea, Massada, Jerusalem from Ashdod and Haifa?

Edited September 3, 2009 by sizzle_sisters

[happy trailer]

HI Ruth, maybe you could help the poster in the "convoy" thread. Do you know if you have to travel in convoys in Egypt?

And my question is: Is it better to try to do the Dead Sea from the port of Ashdod, or Haifa?

Should we be thinking of getting off ship in Ashdod (first stop) and not reboarding til after our third day, which is Haifa (ports > Ashdod one day then sail to Haifa for 2 days)

I'm trying to figure out distances between ports and what I want to see. Is this doable

- Dead Sea, Massada, Jerusalem from Ashdod and Haifa?

 

Hi,

 

Please, please, please read through the previous posts on this thread- these questions have been asked, answered, and discussed many times. If, after you've gone through thread (it's only a few pages altogether ;)), you still have questions, then I'll be happy to answer.

 

BTW- are you sure you have a total of 3 days in Israel? I've only been hearing from cruisers who have 2 days in Israel- one day in Ashdod, and one day in Haifa. If you do indeed have a total of 3 days in Israel, then your touring opportunities are wide open, and you will have the time to see all the major sites without being rushed.

 

I'll keep an eye out for your future questions :) [and I'll take a look at the convoy thread and see if I can help]

[mfantasia]

Hi Ruth,

 

Thank you very much for your thread. I have not questions, just want to pop up to say Thanks, I've been reading your posts to get some information about Israel, we are going soon (I can't wait!) in October

 

Well, I take that bad, I have one question. Two weeks ago I knew a woman from Israel (in Jury Duty, could you believe that?) and she gave so many ideas than I wish that I can go for months to Israel, but I only have two days, she suffered my interrogation with a lot of patience every day (3 days!), she remained me you, because all the time she was telling me to drink a lot of water, wear a hat and use a lot of sunscreen, even if the early October weather is very nice ( we live in Southern California, she said that will be like here, maybe a little more humid).

 

She couldn't help me with Bethlehem, as you, she haven't visit it for a long time. She said that should be safe and "crossing” to the city should be easy, do you know anything about going there? Do we have to pass some border checking? Is it safe? We'll go with the cruise excursion, so I'm sure that they will handle that, but my DD is going with us and she is 4 yr old and I worry.

 

I have re-read your posts and didn't find that information, so I apologize in advance if you already had answered the question (should I say three questions?).

 

Thanks

[happy trailer]

 

She couldn't help me with Bethlehem, as you, she haven't visit it for a long time. She said that should be safe and "crossing” to the city should be easy, do you know anything about going there? Do we have to pass some border checking? Is it safe? We'll go with the cruise excursion, so I'm sure that they will handle that, but my DD is going with us and she is 4 yr old and I worry.

 

I have re-read your posts and didn't find that information, so I apologize in advance if you already had answered the question (should I say three questions?).

 

Thanks

 

 

Already asked and answered a few days ago, a bit further down in the Middle East forum, on the thread:

Is it safe to cross the border in order to see Bethlehem?

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1050770

 

"Has anyone had any recent experience in taking a tour from Ashdod that combines Bethlehem and Jerusalem? I am a little concerned about the border crossing that is entailed and any problems that have been encountered by others. Are the sites in Bethlehem worth the risks?

Thanks for any info."

My response:

"The crossing into Bethlehem from Jerusalem is perfectly safe. It may take a bit of time, but there is no reason to think that you will experience anything but a smooth and relatively easy crossing.

 

If there is any sort of security situation going on, then tourists will be kept away from the area altogether- Israel is VERY protective of its tourists."

 

BTW, we just got back from dinner with business associates of my husband who are in Israel for the day. They toured Jerusalem and Bethlehem, and the only 'problem' they encountered was being mobbed in Bethlehem by 'guides' who wanted to take them into the Church of the Nativity. It took some persistence, but they managed to wave them all off and enter the church on their own.