Swine Flu in Mexico, is it safe to go. (Merged Threads)

[sartracker]

CDC Recommendations at 18:52

At this time, CDC recommends that U.S. travelers avoid all nonessential travel to Mexico.

 

Unfortunately this is a bad sign for travelers. I'm sure that Princess and other cruise lines as well as airlines will be making statements shortly if they haven't already. :(

[RHefley228]

Any suggestions on perhaps taking Airborne prior to flying via Princess Air? Do you know if it works?

 

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_(dietary_supplement)

 

It appears to be a fraud.

[Melxx]

Please refrain from making false or inaccurate statements. It is exactly this type of misinformation that feeds the panic. Influenza virus is NOT airborne - it is droplet transmitted and there is a big difference. With droplet transmission, you must either touch a surface with the virus or be in close proximity to someone who has sneezed or coughed (usually 3-6 feet) and launched the droplets. The droplets required to transmit influenza are much larger than the droplet nuclei for a true airborne-transmitted disease, such as tuberculosis, anthrax, etc. Because they are significantly larger, droplets containing influenza virus do not stay suspended in the air and only travel very short distances. This is why common masks are an effective control measure - not to protect you directly as a wearer, but in preventing you from launching the droplets. Common masks do nothing to protect against true airborne transmission. They must be masks specially made for that purpose, and the wearer must be fit tested and trained in their use.

 

Ask any ID doc and they will tell you that thorough hand washing and avoiding close contact with potentially infected individuals are the first lines of defense against droplet transmitted diseases.

 

We have been given similar advice in the UK this is from the UK Government web page

 

<H4>Hygiene precautions

 

The advice from the NHS is that preventing the spread of germs is the single most effective way to slow the spread of diseases like pandemic flu. You can protect yourself and your family by ensuring everyone washes their hands regularly with soap and water, and by cleaning surfaces regularly. You can prevent a virus spreading to others by:

• always carrying tissues
  
• using tissues to cover your mouth and nose when you cough and sneeze
  
• binning the tissues as soon as possible
  
• washing your hands regularly.
  

CATCH IT. BIN IT. KILL IT. is a simple way to remember this.

</H4>

cover your nose and mouth when coughing or sneezing, using a tissue when possible

dispose of dirty tissues promptly and carefully

maintain good basic hygiene, for example washing hands frequently with soap and water to reduce the spread of the virus from your hands to face or to other people

clean hard surfaces (eg door handles) frequently using a normal cleaning product

make sure your children follow this advise.

[Cruisin Bob]

Please refrain from making false or inaccurate statements. It is exactly this type of misinformation that feeds the panic. Influenza virus is NOT airborne - it is droplet transmitted and there is a big difference. With droplet transmission, you must either touch a surface with the virus or be in close proximity to someone who has sneezed or coughed (usually 3-6 feet) and launched the droplets. The droplets required to transmit influenza are much larger than the droplet nuclei for a true airborne-transmitted disease, such as tuberculosis, anthrax, etc. Because they are significantly larger, droplets containing influenza virus do not stay suspended in the air and only travel very short distances. This is why common masks are an effective control measure - not to protect you directly as a wearer, but in preventing you from launching the droplets. Common masks do nothing to protect against true airborne transmission. They must be masks specially made for that purpose, and the wearer must be fit tested and trained in their use.

 

Ask any ID doc and they will tell you that thorough hand washing and avoiding close contact with potentially infected individuals are the first lines of defense against droplet transmitted diseases.

 

Yes, but you are 3 to 6 feet away from lots of people in the theater, in the dinning room, at the bars, getting on or off the ship, etc.

 

Washing hands is a given, but that only increases your odds of not getting the flu it doe not prevent it.

[custompcsys]

Yes, but you are 3 to 6 feet away from lots of people in the theater, in the dinning room, at the bars, getting on or off the ship, etc.

 

Washing hands is a given, but that only increases your odds of not getting the flu it doe not prevent it.

 

You are absolutely correct Bob. Thorough handwashing does helps but is no guarantee. I was trying to correct the poster who indicated that swine is airborne and handwashing does nothing to help - that would put this situation in an entirely different and much more dangerous category if it were truly airborne.

[Stellaglide]

How is swine flu different than the common flus that we get even winter season here in the US?

 

I know in Mexico thay have had a lot of deaths but here in the US it sounds like most cases are really not that terrible, ie., not requiring hospitalization. Yea you have a fever and feel like crap but get over it in 3-5 days.

 

This is certainly something that no one wants and would be devasting to contract while on a trip/cruise but again how it it different than the flu strains we are suppose to get vaccinated aganist every year?

 

My point is, as a first time cruiser, what do the cruise ships typically do during flu season? I've never heard of vacation travel restrictions when there are flu outbreaks every year during the winter months.

 

Is swine flu that much more contagious or dangerous or is the media/government making this more of a story than it really is?

[californiagirl]

The length of this thread went from 4 pages to 7 while I was reading it!! (Maybe I was reading during the merging of threads.) We are on the Sapphire leaving this Sat. too. I am a nurse and we are a go. We will be cautious and wash our hands as we always do...frequently. Right now my fingers are so dry that the tips have been cracked and bleeding from my frequent handwashing. (We had a hot, dry spell in So. Cal last week and that usually causes the above to happen.) I do not have OCD, but faithfully wash my hands between patients and before and after performing any patient procedure, before and after eating etc.

 

Our immune systems are truly amazing. We are all exposed to many organisms everyday of our lives. Hopefully the CDC will be able to get a grip on this bug (and the media!).

 

I have called my doctor and she is calling in Tamiflu for us to take with us just in case. Hopefully I will be able to obtain it. Whoever posted about the "regular" flu causing so many deaths annually is exactly right. The regular flu can be very bad. Usually people die from complications of the flu. I think the media is whipping up a frenzy right now.

 

I feel so bad for Mexico. Their tourism is already low and this will be another knock when they are down.

 

Hopefully if Princess is compelled to cancel Mexican ports they will divert us up north. I would prefer a warm cruise, but we are in serious need of a vacation and I would be happy just to get away!

[jfv379]

How is swine flu different than the common flus that we get even winter season here in the US?

 

I know in Mexico thay have had a lot of deaths but here in the US it sounds like most cases are really not that terrible, ie., not requiring hospitalization. Yea you have a fever and feel like crap but get over it in 3-5 days.

 

This is certainly something that no one wants and would be devasting to contract while on a trip/cruise but again how it it different than the flu strains we are suppose to get vaccinated aganist every year?

 

My point is, as a first time cruiser, what do the cruise ships typically do during flu season? I've never heard of vacation travel restrictions when there are flu outbreaks every year during the winter months.

 

Is swine flu that much more contagious or dangerous or is the media/government making this more of a story than it really is?

 

If I understood the news program that I watched this morning, the CDC spokeswoman said they do not yet know what causes Swine Flu. The symptoms are very similiar to regular common flu. They are still collecting and analizing data to determine the cause.

[SeattleCruiselover]

How is swine flu different than the common flus that we get even winter season here in the US?

 

I know in Mexico thay have had a lot of deaths but here in the US it sounds like most cases are really not that terrible, ie., not requiring hospitalization. Yea you have a fever and feel like crap but get over it in 3-5 days.

 

This is certainly something that no one wants and would be devasting to contract while on a trip/cruise but again how it it different than the flu strains we are suppose to get vaccinated aganist every year?

 

My point is, as a first time cruiser, what do the cruise ships typically do during flu season? I've never heard of vacation travel restrictions when there are flu outbreaks every year during the winter months.

 

Is swine flu that much more contagious or dangerous or is the media/government making this more of a story than it really is?

 

The problem with this flu (in as layperson of terms as I can make it) is that it is a mutated flu (and continues to mutate as the infection spreads). This one contains DNA and RNA from birds, swine and humans. It is a mutation of an A Hong Kong 1 flu virus. Some people may have a limited amount of immunity to it if they ever had the base strain of the Hong Kong 1. Like the SARS and Spanish flu viruses before it, what hits me may be different than what hits you, and what works to cure you may kill me. The mutation coefficient is what makes it dangerous.

[cathycruise]

CDC Recommendations at 18:52

At this time, CDC recommends that U.S. travelers avoid all nonessential travel to Mexico.

 

Unfortunately this is a bad sign for travelers. I'm sure that Princess and other cruise lines as well as airlines will be making statements shortly if they haven't already. :(

 

My husband and I are scheduled for 5/2 Mexican Riviera Sapphire cruise. I've been following the news closely, and the situation doesn't seem too favorable. Since this is our first cruise ever, I am not that familiar with the cruise lines' common protocols in an unexpted event such as this -- will Princess cancel our cruise? "IF" they cancel indeed, what's next step? Will Princess re-route the cruise to a different destination, or will they simply refund us and let us go? Has there been any precedent - a cruise getting canceled due to a bad weather, area safety, etc.? In such cases, what did Princess do?

 

Any information from seasoned Princess customers will be greatly appreciated. :)

[JimnKaren]

I work in a 243-bed nursing home. As part of our routine, hands are washed what seems like a gazillion times each day. In a nursing home there so many things that can be transmitted from the elderly to the staff and from the staff to the elderly. That doesn't even take into account all of the visitors (family members and others) who come in and DON'T use the proper hand washing precautions.

 

Should something like this come into our facility due to a staff member or family member being in Mexico and being a carrier, we would be in dire trouble due to the nature of the illness. We are wary and are thinking about what is happening, but we are not going to lock down our place of residence for our long-term residents.

 

As we do in our nursing home, think about what you are doing. If there is any chance that you might pass along a disease, then correct the situation.

 

Wash your hands and think about what you are doing; and have a wonderful cruise.

[sartracker]

It does seem to be causing the illness in a different population than what the normal, I guess you'd call seasonal flu, does. Younger people, healthier to start with are getting it. It's a guess that people who are older have been exposed to the different flu types that are in the mutating strain and or have had immunizations that are giving them some protection.

Right now there are 2 antiviral medicines, tamiflu is one, that seem to be effective but as it's passed to person to person it could change.

 

The World Health Organization had this to say: "Given the widespread presence of the virus, the Director-General considered that containment of the outbreak is not feasible. The current focus should be on mitigation measures".

The Director-General recommended not to close borders and not to restrict international travel. It was considered prudent for people who are ill to delay international travel and for people developing symptoms following international travel to seek medical attention.

 

I don't know what to think at this point. There are still so many unknowns, it can change within hours.

My daughter and her friends decided not to go to Cancun because the airline will refund all their money. But that's different than a cruise line.

 

I'm sure someone who knows the protocol for this type of thing for cruises will be along to answer your question. :(

[rimau]

Posted on the Princess site at 6pm.

 

"Six Princess ships are currently scheduled for calls in Mexican ports through next month. In light of the CDC's recent travel health warning for Mexico, we are now reviewing our itinerary options, and further information on changes will be available tomorrow. However, some of the actions we are taking onboard all of our ships include:

We are enhancing our screening practices for passengers and crew embarking our ships.

We are adhering to CDC guidelines for reporting and treatment of persons with suspect swine flu.

We will isolate and treat passengers and crew with suspect swine flu. Anti-viral medications that effectively treat the swine flu are currently available onboard all Princess ships.

We will continue our rigorous cleaning and sanitization of our ships to minimize the spread of any contagious disease. Our ships are routinely cleaned with a disinfectant proven to be highly effective against the flu.

We are communicating to our passengers and crew that they should take extra care to practice healthy habits such as washing their hands often.

We are asking passengers and crew to report to the medical center immediately if they exhibit any symptoms of flu.

We will continue to closely monitor the situation and will do everything possible to protect the health of our passengers and crew."

[Cruisin Bob]

I think the truth is going to take a while to come out on this flu.

 

The deaths in Mexico are difficult to understand.

 

If this is similar to a flu in the US in the past it may explain the mildness of the flu affect in the US so far.

 

Another explanation is that there have been an enormous number of people affected in Mexico and the deaths are a very small percentage of those infected.

 

There are probably several other scenarios that explain the significant variation between US and Mexico experience so far, but only time will tell the real reason. In the mean time I guess everyone will be some what concerned.

 

High number of deaths among young adults in Mexico is rather disturbing.

[chipmaster]

I think the truth is going to take a while to come out on this flu.

 

The deaths in Mexico are difficult to understand.

 

If this is similar to a flu in the US in the past it may explain the mildness of the flu affect in the US so far.

 

Another explanation is that there have been an enormous number of people affected in Mexico and the deaths are a very small percentage of those infected.

 

There are probably several other scenarios that explain the significant variation between US and Mexico experience so far, but only time will tell the real reason. In the mean time I guess everyone will be some what concerned.

 

High number of deaths among young adults in Mexico is rather disturbing.

 

This is indeed a mystery, there are only a couple likey possibilities

 

1) The virus is mutating and the form that has / is spreading is a less lethal one

2) The incumbation period is long and have yet to see the tip of the iceberg.

3) Pig to human is the deadly form, human-human while genetically similar is not as lethal.

 

 

I'm open to other possibilities but at the moment a combo or either of the above are the only explanation for why so many deaths in Mexico and none anywhere else. This is different the the Avian flue or other recent contagious and deadly diseases like ebola

[lovesublime]

Yes, but you are 3 to 6 feet away from lots of people in the theater, in the dinning room, at the bars, getting on or off the ship, etc.

 

Washing hands is a given, but that only increases your odds of not getting the flu it doe not prevent it.

 

 

 

The flu is conidered to be an airborne illness, although not strictly. Most people actually contract it from virus infected droplets when someone coughs or sneezes in their area. Yes, you can contract it by touching something contaminated, but it's not as likely. The droplets have to come in contact with your mucus membranes to make you ill and breathing in those droplets is a surefire way to get sick.

 

Unfortunately, some people have no reason to live except to 'correct' people on online forums. Custompcsys-I take offense at your statement that posts like mine 'feed the panic'. You're the one who keeps posting long winded statements about the flu outbreak-not me. I couldn't care less.

[Mtnwriter]

We leave in a few weeks for a week. I am scared and having thoughts of canceling. I don't scare easily but traveling with kids can make one a bit more or even overly cautious. Really wouldn't be as concern if not for the kids. This is not good for Mexico!

 

 

I am a pediatrician who is leaving (I hope) this Saturday to Mexico. We have a 3 year old. Right now I have Tamiflu, which is the recommeneded med if you get swine flu, for all of us. I got my sons unmixed in powder form. It lasts months that way and if you need it you just mix it with water. Also we are monitoring the CDC website which has the most up to date info. If we get to go we will probably stay on the ship...not sure yet. But I really hope we can go. Hope this helps.

[mygirlscats]

My in-laws departed today (Tuesday) on the Sapphire out of San Francisco. We're watching the race to the finish...will their ship arrive at the first Mexican port before the decision is made to skip the ports, or will it avoid all of them? Problem is, we don't know the itinerary...does anyone know which day the Sapphire docks/tenders at its first Mexican port of call on this sailing?

 

Thanks,

Daughter-in-Law

[kooljamming]

I am a pediatrician who is leaving (I hope) this Saturday to Mexico. We have a 3 year old. Right now I have Tamiflu, which is the recommeneded med if you get swine flu, for all of us. I got my sons unmixed in powder form. It lasts months that way and if you need it you just mix it with water. Also we are monitoring the CDC website which has the most up to date info. If we get to go we will probably stay on the ship...not sure yet. But I really hope we can go. Hope this helps.

 

Yes and thanks. We have the benefit of time so hopefully this will be under control by then. My kids have an incredible immune system. My 13 yrs old has never had an ear infection or been sick for the most part. I will continue to monitor the CDC website and watch for post from others with the same concern as I. This was going to be our big vacation year with Mexico being the anchor, with vacations by land and sea. I am still concern but very hopeful.

[californiagirl]

MyGirls: I don't think your in-laws are on the Sapphire, they must be on another Princess ship doing the 10 day Mexico. (The Sapphire has been doing 7 day trips from LA all winter.) We are supposed to leave this Sat on the Sapphire. I sure hope we get to go!

[goingeasy]

I am scheduled to leave for Mexico Sat. the 2nd. I talked to a Princess Rep today before they posted the 6pm news bulletin.

 

She said the Sapphire will be sailing to Mexican waters as scheduled. If

the present situation escalates to a border closing they will anchor off

shore and no one will be permitted to leave the ship. In other words,

we will be going to Mexico - no change in itinerary - our first port day is

Tuesday in Puerto Vallarta. If yhe threat level doesn't change, passengers

will be allowed to go ashore if they choose.

 

My thought, if I stay onboard because of fear, what difference does it make if 1/2 the passengers go ashore and then return to join me in the

elevator, dining room etc etc.

 

I'll be taking my usual precautions while onboard and hope that an end to

the virus spreading is in the near future for those in regions that are having the major problems.

[flvol77]

I am scheduled to leave for Mexico Sat. the 2nd. I talked to a Princess Rep today before they posted the 6pm news bulletin.

 

She said the Sapphire will be sailing to Mexican waters as scheduled. If

the present situation escalates to a border closing they will anchor off

shore and no one will be permitted to leave the ship. In other words,

we will be going to Mexico - no change in itinerary - our first port day is

Tuesday in Puerto Vallarta. If yhe threat level doesn't change, passengers

will be allowed to go ashore if they choose.

 

My thought, if I stay onboard because of fear, what difference does it make if 1/2 the passengers go ashore and then return to join me in the

elevator, dining room etc etc.

 

I'll be taking my usual precautions while onboard and hope that an end to

the virus spreading is in the near future for those in regions that are having the major problems.

 

In 8 days the situation will be much clearer (one way or the other) Princess isn't going to put their passengers in danger. Trust the cruise line, they run from Hurricanes and never put their passengers in harms way, you will be fine.

[mygirlscats]

Re: my previous posting...guess it's not the Sapphire...it's the 9 day (10 day?) sailing San Francisco to Acapulco & back. Those of us who don't pay attention...

 

Anyway, if anyone's familiar w/the itinerary, I'd be grateful to know when port days will begin.

 

Cheers,

Daughter-in-Law (standing corrected)

[RickEk]

As I posted previously on this thread, we returned home Saturday morning from a Sapphire cruise in Mexico. We've probably sailed to Mexico 15 times, on one Princess ship or another and have always shown our passports to immigration agents when leaving the ship. This time, there were agents checking international passengers, but everyone in the U.S. passport line just sailed past empty kiosks and down the escalators to baggage pick-up. Seemed very strange to us at the time... and even more strange when we heard about the swine flu outbreak when we arrived home and turned on the TV. I intend to call Princess tomorrow and let them know and also ask what happened.

 

They have greatly streamlined the debarkation process. Last October, it took maybe 15 minutes from the moment we stepped off the ship to sitting in the car heading home. Only foreign nationals had to wait in a line.

 

My in-laws departed today (Tuesday) on the Sapphire out of San Francisco. We're watching the race to the finish...will their ship arrive at the first Mexican port before the decision is made to skip the ports, or will it avoid all of them? Problem is, we don't know the itinerary...does anyone know which day the Sapphire docks/tenders at its first Mexican port of call on this sailing?

 

Thanks,

Daughter-in-Law

 

That would be the Star Princess.

 

 

The Sapphire reaches Puerto Vallarta Tuesday morning... we'll see what happens...

[sartracker]

This is indeed a mystery, there are only a couple likey possibilities

 

1) The virus is mutating and the form that has / is spreading is a less lethal one

2) The incumbation period is long and have yet to see the tip of the iceberg.

3) Pig to human is the deadly form, human-human while genetically similar is not as lethal. /QUOTE]

 

I think there are many unanswered questions. In the US many people have been vaccinated against different flu viruses over the years whereas in Mexico the people aren't routinely vaccinated.

 

There is much more exposure in Mexico I would imagine from pig to human whereas what we are seeing in the US is human to human and seems to be a milder form. My son returned over a week ago from a border town of AZ/Mexico and so far is fine. My DH and I cruised to Mexico in mid-March when apparently there were already people sick from this illness and so far we are fine. That doesn't mean there won't be someone whose system can't handle it here and they will have severe problems. :(

 

The incubation period is not known yet for certainty so it's a crap shoot. Some diseases such as Rubella can have a 3 week incubation period. A shorter incubation period would seem to be easier to find people infected and stop it but I don't really know.

 

Would I go to Mexico right now? Yes, but I don't have young children and I could get a dose of tamiflu to take with me. Plus, I'm part of a team set up to operate in these circumstances. Should other people do that? Probably not, unless they can take the same precautions.

 

Is this a nightmare for tourists, the tourist industry and the countries that count on our tourist dollars? Absolutely! But we've had these kinds of things happen before and there is a good Emergency Plan in place for this kind and other kinds of issues so I'm positive that things will work out if we all work together. I'm sure the cruise lines like the airlines will work out something for everyone affected by this illness. I'm sorry it's ruining so many peoples plans! :(

 

Good luck everyone! Stay positive and know that everything that can possibly be done to isolate this incident is being done. :)