HELP! Is it or isn't it against the law to disembark early in Key West.

[valmouche]

Help,

Does anyone know if it is possible for us to take the 4 night Royal Caribbean Majesty of the Seas Cruise. Miami- Nassau- Cococay- Key West- Miami. And disembark early in Key West for a few days? Royal Caribbean tells me to fax the request and won't give me a quick answer and I am reading here on Cruise Critic all kinds of PVAC? or Jones Act Violations? I can't make heads or tails of it! Help.

[Bases5]

I think if you go to a foreign port first and pass customs its OK

I'm not sure.

I do think if key West was your first port without going to a foreign port it would be illegal.

I don't really know

 

I do know our whole cruise party disembarked in St Martin and flew home without a issue,

[uksimonusa]

Help,

Does anyone know if it is possible for us to take the 4 night Royal Caribbean Majesty of the Seas Cruise. Miami- Nassau- Cococay- Key West- Miami. And disembark early in Key West for a few days? Royal Caribbean tells me to fax the request and won't give me a quick answer and I am reading here on Cruise Critic all kinds of PVAC? or Jones Act Violations? I can't make heads or tails of it! Help.

 

As long as you go to a foreign port, Nassau or Coco Cay first, then you can depart in Key West, don't forget thought you WILL NEED a passport, as you are not completing a closed loop cruise.

[annierie]

Help,

Does anyone know if it is possible for us to take the 4 night Royal Caribbean Majesty of the Seas Cruise. Miami- Nassau- Cococay- Key West- Miami. And disembark early in Key West for a few days? Royal Caribbean tells me to fax the request and won't give me a quick answer and I am reading here on Cruise Critic all kinds of PVAC? or Jones Act Violations? I can't make heads or tails of it! Help.

 

You cannot leave this cruise in Key West. If you do, they are providing you transportation between two US ports, i.e., getting on in Miami and off in Key West.

 

It would only be possible if the cruise visited a distant foreign port, like in South America or Aruba, Bonaire or Curacao. That's why repositioning cruises, from one US port to another, stop in Colombia, or one of the above islands.

 

Closed loop cruises that take you out of one port in US and return you to that same port, only have to visit at least one foreign stop (doesn't have to be "distant".)

 

As for leaving in St. Martin, which someone else posted, the last time I checked St. Martin wasn't a US port.

[Bases5]

 

It would only be possible if the cruise visited a distant foreign port, like in South America or Aruba, Bonaire or Curacao. That's why repositioning cruises, from one US port to another, stop in Colombia, or one of the above islands.

 

Closed loop cruises that take you out of one port in US and return you to that same port, only have to visit at least one foreign stop (doesn't have to be "distance

 

Ok if you say so. I just don't think how far the foreign port is matters. But I see the point about tranportation from 1 us port to another.

[xpcdoojk]

Why book a cruise, when you just want to go to Key West?

 

jc

[Shorex]

Help,

Does anyone know if it is possible for us to take the 4 night Royal Caribbean Majesty of the Seas Cruise. Miami- Nassau- Cococay- Key West- Miami. And disembark early in Key West for a few days? Royal Caribbean tells me to fax the request and won't give me a quick answer and I am reading here on Cruise Critic all kinds of PVAC? or Jones Act Violations? I can't make heads or tails of it! Help.

 

RC will give you a definitive answer. After all, they are responsible for paying a fine if they get it wrong. If they say it's okay, great. If they say no way, then end of story --

 

On a cruise board, you will get answers of 1) yes; 2) no; and 3) maybe. At least some of the answers will be correct.

[amybeth4]

You cannot leave this cruise in Key West. If you do, they are providing you transportation between two US ports, i.e., getting on in Miami and off in Key West.

 

It would only be possible if the cruise visited a distant foreign port, like in South America or Aruba, Bonaire or Curacao. That's why repositioning cruises, from one US port to another, stop in Colombia, or one of the above islands.

 

Closed loop cruises that take you out of one port in US and return you to that same port, only have to visit at least one foreign stop (doesn't have to be "distant".)

 

As for leaving in St. Martin, which someone else posted, the last time I checked St. Martin wasn't a US port.

 

Annierie is actually correct...someone asked this same question a couple of months ago. The problem was that they were embarking in Miami and debarking in Key West. Therefore it's no longer "closed loop." It's illegal to get on in one port and off in another. (Yes I know many one-way cruises do that, but apparently it's illegal for the passenger to do it when the cruise is heading back to its starting point.)

 

This is simply what I'm remembering from the previous discussion and I'm about 95% sure I'm remembering correctly.

 

But I'd contact RCI anyway. Although the reservationists usually don't know what's going on and three will give you three different answers. Maybe you should contact the TSA or something!

[PH8]

Why book a cruise, when you just want to go to Key West?

 

jc

KeyWest is the last port on their itinerary............maybe they just want to extend their vacation there a bit???:confused:

[prc]

It's sometimes called the Jones Act, but is more acurately described as Cabotage laws. they were enacted about a century ago to protect US martime passenger industry from foreign competition. If a foreign flagged ship picks up a person from one US port, and deposits them in another (other then the original), the ship MUST make a stop in a DISTANT fireign port. The word DISTANT is spelled out in the law as being the Dutch ABC Islands (Aruba, Bonaire, Curacau), or the physical continent of South America. That is why all repo cruises stop at either Aruba or cartegena, Columbia.

 

I don't know what exception is made for medical emergencies, but if a passenger is ejected from the ship and causes a violation of these laws, the cruise line IS fined, and the most always pass that fine along to the offending passenger.

 

It's been discussed before...even if you decided to simply walk off without telling anyone, they know you didn't reboard (seapass card), and if they left you behind in KW, you almost certianly would see a fine billed to your seapass account, because they left you in a US port other than the one they picked you up in.

 

It has also come up before that if you miss a ship (late flight) in MIA or FLL, and KW is the first stop, you may not be allowed to board without paying the fine.

[lablvr2]

I guess I just don't understand this.....

You are on a cruise that is not completed and you want to get off it? I am wondering why you booked it in the first place?

[phoenix1181]

I guess I just don't understand this.....

You are on a cruise that is not completed and you want to get off it? I am wondering why you booked it in the first place?

 

This really isn't hard........... Key West is the last port. They'll miss the last night of the cruise (which they don't have a problem with) and will finish their vacation with a few days in Key West.

[powelweb]

Hopefully the original poster will return and let us know the outcome after they speak with RCI.

 

I can add from my experience on our recent TA on the Voyager westbound last Nov, that there were many US citizen that disembarked in Miami instead of continuing onto for the final 2 sea days and ending up in Galveston tx.

 

Yes, I realize OP is talking about a closed loop cruise instead of a repo, but my example, similar to the St. Martin example, show that cruise ships do allow guests to end their voyage early if they desire- it's the local customs and immigration laws that dictate actual permissions and fines as to what is acceptable.

[flagger]

I would say that everyone would at least have to have passports because this would not be a "closed-loop" cruise and would therefore not qualify under the WHTI.

[Rudi610]

This is interesting. Suppose someone decided to get around the PSA and do what the OP asked about. If you get on the cruise with a carryon (no suit cases) and you don't have a passport (just a birth cert and driver's license). You get off the ship in Key West (with everything you brought in your carryon). Ooops!! You missed the ship. What is the TSA/immigration going to do? Hunt you down in Key West? You are in the United States and will be going home in the United States where you don't need a passport to buy a plane ticket or rent a car. Yes, you did something illegal and will probably be fined by the cruise line for doing it. Will the U.S. prosecute? I doubt it. The only other thing that would be wrong would be stiffing your waitstaff because you are not on the ship for the last night.

[amybeth4]

Hopefully the original poster will return and let us know the outcome after they speak with RCI.

 

I can add from my experience on our recent TA on the Voyager westbound last Nov, that there were many US citizen that disembarked in Miami instead of continuing onto for the final 2 sea days and ending up in Galveston tx.

 

Yes, I realize OP is talking about a closed loop cruise instead of a repo, but my example, similar to the St. Martin example, show that cruise ships do allow guests to end their voyage early if they desire- it's the local customs and immigration laws that dictate actual permissions and fines as to what is acceptable.

 

I don't mean to offend, but I really don't think you're giving accurate info here. You were first talking about a TA cruise, which is subject to different rules. Then you said it's up to local customs and immigration laws, which I don't BELIEVE is correct.

 

RCI states on their website that you can certainly leave a cruise early, but I copied and pasted the EXCEPTION, below, which completely pertains to the OP's question.

 

I think the fine is either $200 or $300 per person which is way less than I thought it would be, but doesn't really sound worth it, considering they'd have to literally pack nothing but like a backpack because any piece of luggage going off the ship in Key West would certainly look suspicious:

 

If a passenger (as listed on a vessel passenger manifest) embarks in a U.S. port (Miami) and the vessel calls in a nearby foreign port (such as Ensenada, Grand Cayman and Nassau) and then returns to the U.S., the person must disembark in the same U.S. port (Miami). A passenger who embarks and disembarks in two different U.S. ports (such as Miami and Key West ) would result in the carrier (Royal Carib) (not the violator (the OP) ) being fined. The vessel must call in a distant foreign port before the U.S. embarkation and disembarkation ports can differ. The nearest distant foreign ports are in or off the coast of South America. If either the passenger's embarkation port or disembarkation port is in a foreign country, then the provisions of this cabotage law do not apply. Nor do they apply in Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands.

[Bases5]

Interesting Post for sure.

 

I think I would cruise Back to Miami and drive to Key West the next Morning!!!

[mjsshipboy]

Annierie is actually correct...someone asked this same question a couple of months ago. The problem was that they were embarking in Miami and debarking in Key West. Therefore it's no longer "closed loop." It's illegal to get on in one port and off in another. (Yes I know many one-way cruises do that, but apparently it's illegal for the passenger to do it when the cruise is heading back to its starting point.)

 

This is simply what I'm remembering from the previous discussion and I'm about 95% sure I'm remembering correctly.

 

But I'd contact RCI anyway. Although the reservationists usually don't know what's going on and three will give you three different answers. Maybe you should contact the TSA or something!

 

The Jones act is probably the most archaic and confusing bit of legislation to surround cruising. I am not saying I have it perfect, but - here is what I can make of it.

 

Cruise MUST go to a non-US port during it's voyage, unless it is a US flagged vessel (Of which there are virtually none anymore).

 

If the cruise is a round trip cruise (Miami to Miami or LA to LA) any non-US port will suffice. So, the Mariner, out of LA, can visit Mexico and return to LA and be in compliance. It would not be allowed to start it's cruise in LA, visit Mexico and then finish the cruise in San Diego.

 

If the ship is starting in one US port and finishing in another, for example and to quote the original question, Miami to Key West, the ship would have to visit a "Distant Non-Us Port", which basically means, a country that is not directly adjacent to the US. So the Majesty, visiting only the Bahamas, does not comply.

 

If the Majesty left Miami and then went to St Maarten and returned to Key West, there would be no issue departing the ship. But because you are only visiting the Bahamas, you would be in contravention of the Jones Act and not permitted to debark the ship, unless it was an emergency.

 

The law does not make sense. The cruise lines have been lobbying to have it amended for years, and now, with the elimination of almost all US cruise vessels, it has no relevance. Needless to say, NCL, with their exemption from the Jones Act (partially) are fighting to keep it in place.

 

NCL's partial expemption means that they can have a US flagged ship that doesn't comply with the requirements of US flagging. In the past, US flagged ships must have been designed and built in the US and must be exclusively crewed by US crewmembers. NCL's lone US flagged vessel was built in Germany and has a token amount of US crew, I believe it is something like 30%.

[annierie]

The Jones act is probably the most archaic and confusing bit of legislation to surround cruising. I am not saying I have it perfect, but - here is what I can make of it.

 

Cruise MUST go to a non-US port during it's voyage, unless it is a US flagged vessel (Of which there are virtually none anymore).

 

If the cruise is a round trip cruise (Miami to Miami or LA to LA) any non-US port will suffice. So, the Mariner, out of LA, can visit Mexico and return to LA and be in compliance. It would not be allowed to start it's cruise in LA, visit Mexico and then finish the cruise in San Diego.

 

If the ship is starting in one US port and finishing in another, for example and to quote the original question, Miami to Key West, the ship would have to visit a "Distant Non-Us Port", which basically means, a country that is not directly adjacent to the US. So the Majesty, visiting only the Bahamas, does not comply.

 

If the Majesty left Miami and then went to St Maarten and returned to Key West, there would be no issue departing the ship. But because you are only visiting the Bahamas, you would be in contravention of the Jones Act and not permitted to debark the ship, unless it was an emergency.

 

The law does not make sense. The cruise lines have been lobbying to have it amended for years, and now, with the elimination of almost all US cruise vessels, it has no relevance. Needless to say, NCL, with their exemption from the Jones Act (partially) are fighting to keep it in place.

 

NCL's partial expemption means that they can have a US flagged ship that doesn't comply with the requirements of US flagging. In the past, US flagged ships must have been designed and built in the US and must be exclusively crewed by US crewmembers. NCL's lone US flagged vessel was built in Germany and has a token amount of US crew, I believe it is something like 30%.

 

 

... that the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA) is still around. The Jones act applies to the transport of cargo, not passengers, so unless you've really been nailing the WJ ;) you are covered under PVSA and not Jones Act.

 

The PVSA also applies to ferries, and believe it or not, airplanes. Therefore, Aeroflot can't compete with US Air to provide interstate air flights, since they are a foreign carrier. They can transport you into or out of the US, but can't pick you up in NY and drop you in Chicago. Watch some of the flights into the US discharge passengers at the first stop and only transport those already on board to the second stop (only a few actually do this since it's pretty expensive to take just a handful of pax on that last leg).

 

Ferries from Canada on the Great Lakes can't compete with US ferries.

 

For ships, you are correct, there are few US flagged left, but Cruise West does still have small ships in Alaska and the Pacific NW and wine country. They are extremely expensive (paying those US crew US wages), so that is what is being protected in the cruise industry.

 

By the way, St. Maarten is NOT a distant foreign port, so even if a seven day cruise went there, you would have to leave the ship in a foreign port, and not in Key West.

 

And yes, customs is well aware if you left the ship before the end of the cruise because the cruise line is bound to report you to customs at the final destination as being AWOL so to speak. If they didn't have to report you, you could greatly exceed your duty free exemptions and avoid duty by "sneaking" off in another US port with your thousands of dollars of jewelry, or those Cuban cigars, or whatever. The cruise line wouldn't jeopardize their right to carry passengers in the US by facilitating such behaviors by some pax.

[amybeth4]

Interesting Post for sure.

 

I think I would cruise Back to Miami and drive to Key West the next Morning!!!

 

 

I meant to throw this into my post too. Off the ship at 7:30, back to the airport to pick up a car by 8, out of the airport 8:30, in Key West for lunch! :)

[valmouche]

Wow, I stirred up a hornets nest.

 

We, are staying in Key west for an additional 4 nights. Just seems like a waste of time and money getting back down to key west after we had just left there 12 hours before. We would only be missing 12 hours of the cruise and 8 of it we would have been sleeping. Hope that answers the questions...Why.

 

Driving back down just seems silly if we can just get off in Key West.

 

I can see that I will haveto fax them and find out for myself which I will do next week since I don't have a fax at home anymore. (Someone should tell RCCL that Fax machines are a thing of the past) But thank you all for your input, albeit.... confusing.

Michelle

[amybeth4]

Wow, I stirred up a hornets nest.

 

We, are staying in Key west for an additional 4 nights. Just seems like a waste of time and money getting back down to key west after we had just left there 12 hours before. We would only be missing 12 hours of the cruise and 8 of it we would have been sleeping. Hope that answers the questions...Why.

 

Driving back down just seems silly if we can just get off in Key West.

 

I can see that I will haveto fax them and find out for myself which I will do next week since I don't have a fax at home anymore. (Someone should tell RCCL that Fax machines are a thing of the past) But thank you all for your input, albeit.... confusing.

Michelle

 

I'm editing this because I forgot about the fine part, which may allow you to do it:

 

 

If you don't mind, feel free to come back to this post and let us know what they said. We're a nosy bunch. :)

 

And look at it this way. It sounds like it's cheaper to rent a car (or take a bus??) from Miami to Key West considering you've already paid for all your meals and lodging that night, as opposed to getting off the ship and have to spend additional money on meals and lodging. Unless you're staying in someone's house...but you've still spent the money for the last night of the cruise.

 

Unless money has nothing to do with it and it was all about the time involved. In that case you can probably do it and just pay the fine.

[prc]

The drive back down to KW from Miami is a beautiful scenic activity all in itself...You may have more fun doing the drive anyway (I know I would!)

[MIcruiser99]

I think the fine is either $200 or $300 per person which is way less than I thought it would be, but doesn't really sound worth it,

 

We did the Majesty with the same stops. My son was tired of being on a cruise (I think he was switched at birth-my child sick of cruising!:eek:) My father had driven down to surprise us at KW so my DS asked if he could go home with grandpa.

 

We asked at the pursers desk and were told- sure, if you want to pay the $300 fine. So, that is from our experience a couple of years ago.

 

The ship then goes to Miami to debark passengers so I can see where it would be nice to stay at KW and enjoy a few more days. Whether it is worth $300pp is up to each cruiser!

[amybeth4]

We asked at the pursers desk and were told- sure, if you want to pay the $300 fine. So, that is from our experience a couple of years ago.

 

The ship then goes to Miami to debark passengers so I can see where it would be nice to stay at KW and enjoy a few more days. Whether it is worth $300pp is up to each cruiser!

 

That's fabulous. Talk about the perfect answer!