Passenger services act

[notme1955]

You are assuming some computer programmer even knows about the PVSA, let along understands it.

 

No. I'm assuming that Carnival's LAWYERS know about the PVSA.

 

Programmers only program what they're told. (No offense to any programmers out there. I know there's a bit more to the job.)

[Goofyisme]

Is too

Is Not

Is Too

Is Not

Is Too

Is Not

Is Too

 

There that ought to take care of the next couple of pages.

All the sea lawyers here should check case law before making totally wrong assertions.

Have fun and keep the laughs coming.

[nrdsb4]

Is too

Is Not

Is Too

Is Not

Is Too

Is Not

Is Too

 

There that ought to take care of the next couple of pages.

All the sea lawyers here should check case law before making totally wrong assertions.

Have fun and keep the laughs coming.

 

 

Good one!:D:D:D

 

I don't have a clue who's right here, but I sure hope the OP comes back and lets us know what they decided, how it works out, etc. Or someone who has booked this same pair of cruises and was later called and told it's not okay, or someone who booked the cruises and took them happily with no problems, I hope they find this thread and fill us in.

[amybeth4]

Is too

Is Not

Is Too

Is Not

Is Too

Is Not

Is Too

 

There that ought to take care of the next couple of pages.

All the sea lawyers here should check case law before making totally wrong assertions.

Have fun and keep the laughs coming.

 

You are so right!

 

So I've now taken the liberty to email the Maritime Cabotage Task Force and asked them if this exact itinerary is legal for both Australian and US citizens.

 

Keep the "tastes great/less filling" comments coming. Hopefully I'll have an answer within a day or two. Cuz I'm dying to know.

 

Personally *I* don't think it's legal for a US citizen to do this, nor would I imagine anyone at Carnival would truly know since it's such an out-of-the-norm thing to do.

[smeyer418]

You are so right!

 

So I've now taken the liberty to email the Maritime Cabotage Task Force and asked them if this exact itinerary is legal for both Australian and US citizens.

 

Keep the "tastes great/less filling" comments coming. Hopefully I'll have an answer within a day or two. Cuz I'm dying to know.

 

Personally *I* don't think it's legal for a US citizen to do this, nor would I imagine anyone at Carnival would truly know since it's such an out-of-the-norm thing to do.

The citizenship of the traveler has nothing to do with it. The law doesn't prohibit US citizens and allow others(it would violate the equal protection clause of the US constitution and other parts of it as well) but please let is know what they say.....

and by the way it should be

does not

does too

does not

does too

etc :)

[Goofyisme]

You are so right!

 

So I've now taken the liberty to email the Maritime Cabotage Task Force and asked them if this exact itinerary is legal for both Australian and US citizens.

 

Keep the "tastes great/less filling" comments coming. Hopefully I'll have an answer within a day or two. Cuz I'm dying to know.

 

Personally *I* don't think it's legal for a US citizen to do this, nor would I imagine anyone at Carnival would truly know since it's such an out-of-the-norm thing to do.

 

Awwww now you are going to spoil all the fun by getting the facts. Ooops what am I talking about, facts have never stopped anyone on here :)

[amybeth4]

The citizenship of the traveler has nothing to do with it. The law doesn't prohibit US citizens and allow others(it would violate the equal protection clause of the US constitution and other parts of it as well) but please let is know what they say.....

and by the way it should be

does not

does too

does not

does too

etc :)

 

First, I wasn't too sure if they citizenry did matter, but I asked them for the rules of each citizen just in case. Wanna cover all bases.

 

Second, I'll be pretty surprised if they do answer, quite honestly.

 

Third, I'll DEFINITELY post the answer! :)

[Goofyisme]

The citizenship of the traveler has nothing to do with it. The law doesn't prohibit US citizens and allow others(it would violate the equal protection clause of the US constitution and other parts of it as well) but please let is know what they say.....

and by the way it should be

does not

does too

does not

does too

etc :)

 

Sorry, been hanging around my niece and nephew too much, must be effecting my proper English. Also you are correct, the application of the act has nothing to do with the nationality of the passenger(s).

[amybeth4]

Awwww now you are going to spoil all the fun by getting the facts. Ooops what am I talking about, facts have never stopped anyone on here :)

 

That's because we all know it all. (And I'll admit to being guilty on occasion!)

 

But this topic is too fascinating to not actually get the real answer to! For...whoa bad grammar going on there...

[smeyer418]

First, I wasn't too sure if they citizenry did matter, but I asked them for the rules of each citizen just in case. Wanna cover all bases.

 

Second, I'll be pretty surprised if they do answer, quite honestly.

 

Third, I'll DEFINITELY post the answer! :)

you know I was kidding but you can ask the legal department of the Department of Homeland Security they are in fact the legal advisers to the secretary of DHS who makes the rules....or doesn't as the case may be(he declined last year to make an amendment that the Federal Maritime Commission had requested)...

[smeyer418]

Sorry, been hanging around my niece and nephew too much, must be effecting my proper English. Also you are correct, the application of the act has nothing to do with the nationality of the passenger(s).

I was kidding about the grammar...its a violation of cruise critics rules to correct someone's spelling or grammar...

[amybeth4]

you know I was kidding but you can ask the legal department of the Department of Homeland Security they are in fact the legal advisers to the secretary of DHS who makes the rules....or doesn't as the case may be(he declined last year to make an amendment that the Federal Maritime Commission had requested)...

 

Well I'll see if these guys answer me first. Their email address was pretty easy to get.

[Goofyisme]

I was kidding about the grammar...its a violation of cruise critics rules to correct someone's spelling or grammar...

 

Yes I know, you're comment was taken the way it was intended. Sorry if I sounded offended I certainly was not.

[annierie]

It is a violation.

 

Ask on the Princess and HAL boards where for the past few years, people have tried to do it and failed, because their system will eventually flag it and spit it out as illegal.

 

This is the year that Carnival changed its Alaska itineraries to leave from Seattle instead of Vancouver, so it's highly probable they aren't up to speed on what has happened to other cruisers trying to add B2B and B2B2B cruises that eventually create a PVSA violation.

 

Cruise lines can't knowingly allow it to be booked and pay the fine, because it does jeopardize their position in the eyes of the CBP and they could become more closely monitored.

 

Also, Princess is headquartered in California, and HAL in Seattle. They have a major presence in Alaska, so their personnel are much closer to understanding the consequences of the law, as well as maybe being burned in the past when unknowingly allowing people to book B2Bs.

 

If the OP wants to take a chance, risk a $600 fine (2 X $300), and maybe have the automated systems spit out their cruises and make them cancel one of them just before sailing, then have at it.

 

But, cuizer2 and smeyer418 know what they are talking about, as do I, since I worked pretty closely with maritime authorities for a long time. It's illegal, and if Carnival actually believes it isn't, then maybe they need to inform their other cruise lines to allow people to book the Pacific Northwest positioning cruises, B2B, with the one way Alaska cruises. Princess and HAL seem to be losing a ton of revenue by canceling people's cruises, if it's not against the law to combine the following:

 

LA to Vancouver (3 night), followed by Vancouver to Whittier (7 night).

Seward to Vancouver (7 night), followed by Vancouver to SF (3 night).

Whittier to Vancouver (7 night), followed by Vancouver/Hawaii/San Diego (15 night).

 

Here's one example.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=945628

 

There are dozens more, from the past few years.

[Traveling Bob]

Sounds to me like you got your definate answer from Carnival. Based on what you said they are not going to book/schedule you on a cruise that you can not legally take.

 

Thank you. Law 101. Settled with the Arthur Murray Dance Class case.

But why do people want to argue with this? If Carnival says its OK, are they going to turn themselves in to the port police?:eek:

[amybeth4]

never mind!

[nrdsb4]

The citizenship of the traveler has nothing to do with it. The law doesn't prohibit US citizens and allow others(it would violate the equal protection clause of the US constitution and other parts of it as well) but please let is know what they say.....

and by the way it should be

does not

does too

does not

does too

etc :)

 

LOL. I read it as "is this a violation of the PVSA?" Therefore the "is not" "is too" would be grammatically correct.:D

 

I like this thread better than another one I have been following. At least no one is being called a bad parent on this one.:p

[amybeth4]

LOL. I read it as "is this a violation of the PVSA?" Therefore the "is not" "is too" would be grammatically correct.:D

 

I like this thread better than another one I have been following. At least no one is being called a bad parent on this one.:p

 

The original question was sort of, "Does anyone have the answer?" (An actual QUESTION wasn't posted.) So I think correct grammar from we know-it-alls really would be:

 

Yes you can

No you can't

Yes you can

No you can't

 

:)

[aussie2324]

Bloody Hell:eek: ( I am an aussie I can say that) Have I opened the flood gates. I must say you have all kept me entertained. Well I have emailed Carnival AGAIN with the PSA attached for them to read at their leisure. :confused:And asked them to do a little bit more research for at least my peace of mind. And everyone else's by the sounds of it. Will keep you all posted.

 

Tracey

[reggierail]

If Carnival is saying it's OK.. I would go ahead and trust Carnival on this. Besides, they would be the one paying a fine if it was not ok, not you.

1. Carnival doesn't make the rules.

2.The passenger would be the one that would be liable for the fine.

 

I had a back to back booked from SF to Vancouver, the 2nd leg from Vancouver to Alaska ending in Seattle. I had 11 cabins booked on both cruises and tried to add cabins to the B2B group. It was at that time I was told that it would not be permitted. I went round and round, up and down, but the final outcome was that I had to cancel and rebook a different cruise.

 

Reggie

[reggierail]

You are so right!

 

So I've now taken the liberty to email the Maritime Cabotage Task Force and asked them if this exact itinerary is legal for both Australian and US citizens.

 

Keep the "tastes great/less filling" comments coming. Hopefully I'll have an answer within a day or two. Cuz I'm dying to know.

 

Personally *I* don't think it's legal for a US citizen to do this, nor would I imagine anyone at Carnival would truly know since it's such an out-of-the-norm thing to do.

 

This makes sense. Everyone I have talked to at Carnival has said they have talked to various inconsequential people to get a reading. What's needed is either the legal department at Carnival or the govt. agency responsible for enforcement.

 

As I said in my previous post, I had this booking for in excess of 6 months. I dealt with numerous res agents at the cruise line (NCL) and was never made aware of any problem. Then the proverbial poop hit the fan.

 

Reggie

[reggierail]

The original question was sort of, "Does anyone have the answer?" (An actual QUESTION wasn't posted.) So I think correct grammar from we know-it-alls really would be:

 

Yes you can

No you can't

Yes you can

No you can't

 

:)

 

This is, in fact, a very serious question. The ramifications of booking this B2B and then having to cancel is horrific. I have had it happen to me, so I know.

 

Your making this a play on words and a symantic game is not helpful in any way. Maybe you'd be able to find somewhere else to waste everyone's time.

 

Reggie

[Cuizer2]

Well, this thread went strong for two days then it has been quite for about one week. Anything new yet?

[Zingy2]

Interesting food for thought...all of this information. Thanks to all who have posted here. Will be nice to get the official....legal....and hopefully "in layman's terms" answer from an official entity.

 

Threads like this help people think out their travel plans. We probably would have never considered some of these issues....Thanks to all who have contributed.

[Cuizer2]

Interesting food for thought...all of this information. Thanks to all who have posted here. Will be nice to get the official....legal....and hopefully "in layman's terms" answer from an official entity.

 

Threads like this help people think out their travel plans. We probably would have never considered some of these issues....Thanks to all who have contributed.

 

Actually one of the posters on this thread is a lawyer. However, it is up to that person to ID him/herself.