Which Cruise Line Has Maintained Standards In Faltering Economy: HAL or Celebrity?

[LAFFNVEGAS]

During the faltering economy, I am wondering which cruise line has better maintained its standards? HAL or Celebrity?

 

This questioned is prompted by my following HAL's forums almost daily for well over a year (even tho I've only been a CC member since last Aug.)

 

Over a year ago, it seemed most of the postings here were about the refinement and high quality of HAL cruises. Recently, I'm reading many more complaints about overall quality. Admittedly, I have not followed Celebrity as closely as HAL, so am wondering if members who are both HAL and Celebrity fans can offer input. Thanks!

C.

 

IMHO that's a big leap to be making. My house exterior needed to be painted for two years (long story about unreliable painting contractors). Did that mean the interior of my house was shabby? No, not at all -- and to simply presume that a maintained exterior necessarily equates to a maintained interior and maintainaed mechanical infrastructure is faulty logic. Given some of the reports on this board recently, it sounds as though a maintained exterior is absolutely NOT indicative of the condition of other areas that require maintenance.

 

CP I am just going back to the original OP which is what this thread is about :rolleyes: And maintained can be outside as well. It sounds ike your house painting problem may also be due to the faltering economy in one way or another so you basically helped answer this :D So if you do not deny that Celebrity does not maintain many of their ships exterior as they should then in fact this may be due to the faltering economy that they are NOT spending the money. Where HAL ships do continue to spend money on refurbishing ALL of their ships in in the weak economy.

[usha]

LAFFNVEGAS, you might be interested to know that Celebrity just put quite a bit of money into Millennium.

Here's a link to the thread on that:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1007682

[CowPrincess]

CP I am just going back to the original OP which is what this thread is about :rolleyes: And maintained can be outside as well. It sounds ike your house painting problem may also be due to the faltering economy in one way or another so you basically helped answer this :D So if you do not deny that Celebrity does not maintain many of their ships exterior as they should then in fact this may be due to the faltering economy that they are NOT spending the money. Where HAL ships do continue to spend money on refurbishing ALL of their ships in in the weak economy.

 

Wow, don't hurt yourself jumping to conclusions! The "faltering" economy had nothing to do with our house painting issues. As a matter of fact, it was the overheated state of our local economy that created the most substantial contribution to our house painting problems. My point is that my house interior, appliances, utility services, were all perfectly maintained, while the outside of the house OBVIOUSLY needed some maintenance, i.e., "don't judge a book by its cover".

 

There are many recent reports of HAL ships' interiors being worn, shabby, dinged up. There are many recent reports of the HAL cabin stewards being overworked. Lots of people are noticing that the food isn't what it once was.

 

Let me re-cap here:

 

"Freshly painted hull" does not impact on my passenger experience.

"Freshly painted hull" does not necessarily mean that the rest of the ship is well-maintained.

"Hull in need of paint" does not necessarily mean that the rest of the ship is poorly maintained.

 

You said:

 

Yeah but how they maintain the outside of the ship gives me a good idea of how they are maintaining the inside and behind the scenes of the inside of the ship. Frankly if a ship looks to be all rusted out and not well taken care of on the outside NO I would not want to cruise on that ship. Good chance maintence is lacking in many parts of the ship

 

as part of your contribution to whether HAL or Celebrity is doing a better job of maintaining standards. I stand by my opinion that one is not necessarily indicative of the other, and possibly HAL should be spending fewer resources painting hulls and more resources doing things that directly impact the passenger experience.

 

Believe me, there was NOTHING about our cabin on our November cruise that would support the claim "the spotless fleet".

[LAFFNVEGAS]

LAFFNVEGAS, you might be interested to know that Celebrity just put quite a bit of money into Millennium.

Here's a link to the thread on that:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1007682

:rolleyes: And you are saying that Holland America has not spent a dime on any upgrades :confused:

http://www.hollandamerica.com/SOE

 

I think there are a few people totally misunderstanding what I am saying :eek: :mad:

Someone from CC just wrote me stating they thought I was bashing X and I will post here what my reply is.

Sorry I am not bashing Celebrity but merely stating a fact that no one can or has denied . I have written recently on several of my LIVE threads about things that HAL has let slip thru the cracks which could be from the declining economy. But kelmac is stating the X can do NO wrong yet comparing her recent Celebrity cruises on the brand new Solstice to cruises on HAL she has taken 3 to 5 years ago which has nothing to do with today's economy or recent times at all. I am just trying to state a comment that yes even X is sliding.

She made this comment about Brian Brian spent two days on one Celebrity ship four years ago, so his frame of reference is limited yet her reference in comparing all of her HAL cruises is from Veendam(12/03), Volendam(12/04), Zuiderdam(6/05

All of which have not been recent. I was just pointing out that comparing the Solstice to the Maasdam is not even close to being a fair comparison yet she wants to compare her sailing in 2003, 2004 and 2005 yet tells Brian his comparison from 4 years ago is not valid. Sorry you cannot have it both ways.

I agree that both cruise lines are definitely cutting back which is going back to the ORIGINAL POST. The questions is which one is showing more of a decline. There have been numerous reports of people being drastically dissappointed with Celebrity and can see a decline and yes the same with HAL but my comment is that HAL seems to be attempting to take better care of their ships fleet wide compared to X that is only showing pride and spending money on their newest ships from what I have read and talked with people. I will say this if I were to go on an X ship it would certainly be on the Solstice or the new one coming out.

[usha]

:rolleyes: And you are saying that Holland America has not spent a dime on any upgrades :confused:

http://www.hollandamerica.com/SOE

No, I didn't say anything about what HAL is or isn't spending on upgrades; I simply pointed out the recent refurb. of Millennium.

I think there are a few people totally misunderstanding what I am saying :eek: :mad:

 

Someone from CC just wrote me stating they thought I was bashing X and I will post here what my reply is.

 

Sorry I am not bashing Celebrity but merely stating a fact that no one can or has denied . I have written recently on several of my LIVE threads about things that HAL has let slip thru the cracks which could be from the declining economy. But kelmac is stating the X can do NO wrong yet comparing her recent Celebrity cruises on the brand new Solstice to cruises on HAL she has taken 3 to 5 years ago which has nothing to do with today's economy or recent times at all.

kelmac is a man, and he didn't say anything even CLOSE to "X can do no wrong". He just prefers X over HAL.

I am just trying to state a comment that yes even X is sliding. This comment would hold much more weight if you had any experience at all cruising on Celebrity.

She made this comment about Brian Brian spent two days on one Celebrity ship four years ago, so his frame of reference is limited yet her reference in comparing all of her HAL cruises is from Veendam(12/03), Volendam(12/04), Zuiderdam(6/05

All of which have not been recent. I was just pointing out that comparing the Solstice to the Maasdam is not even close to being a fair comparison yet she wants to compare her sailing in 2003, 2004 and 2005 yet tells Brian his comparison from 4 years ago is not valid.

Maybe it's just me, but I understood it to mean that only 2 days on a cruise line makes for a poor frame of reference, and that kelmac was also comparing the total cruising experience, not just the ships themselves.

Sorry you cannot have it both ways.

 

I agree that both cruise lines are definitely cutting back which is going back to the ORIGINAL POST. The questions is which one is showing more of a decline. There have been numerous reports of people being drastically dissappointed with Celebrity and can see a decline and yes the same with HAL but my comment is that HAL seems to be attempting to take better care of their ships fleet wide compared to X that is only showing pride and spending money on their newest ships from what I have read and talked with people.

Again, that's expressing a very strong opinion with absolutely no experience with X.

I will say this if I were to go on an X ship it would certainly be on the Solstice or the new one coming out.

Good idea. I'd love to read your review.

:cool:

[bluehorizonlover123]

I dont even see how you can compare HAL with Celebrity. We did not care for our HAL cruise in the least. The entertainment was awful. The ship was dead after 9pm. We said never again after sailing HAL. But we look forward to our Celebrity cruise on the Solstice and are hoping for better luck on X.

[jimmy2x]

I dont even see how you can compare HAL with Celebrity. We did not care for our HAL cruise in the least. The entertainment was awful. The ship was dead after 9pm. We said never again after sailing HAL. But we look forward to our Celebrity cruise on the Solstice and are hoping for better luck on X.

 

I can easily see why someone would be very disappointed in HAL if entertainment was important to them and can also agree that night-life ends early. (As a disclaimer, we have only done 10+ days on our HAL cruises.)

 

That said, for many of us we know this going in, and accept it. All of the major lines we have been on have their strengths and weaknesses. For us the strengths of HAL outweigh the weaknesses.

[Richard in Panama]

I read a lot where "change" of any kind seems to equal "cutting back" . . . which I think is a mistake. Both Celebrity and Holland America are aiming at a similar affluent, upscale audience and both have their tiny little things that are better than the other. If I could combine the best from both of these, I could pretty well create the "perfect" cruise line . . . at least for ME . . . doesn't mean everyone would like it.

 

I think both are trying to get the most bang for their buck and improve efficiencies and overall performance and service which should result in a better overall experience for guests. Change has always been a fact of life, but moreso now than ever before. There is continual tweaking of products . . . everyone may not like every tweak, but it doesn't necessarily mean the product is being downgraded . . . in most cases it is just the opposite.

 

Having trays in the Lido or not having trays in the Lido may represent the essence of service and "class" . . . I don't know. Just because I had a tray in the high school cafeteria line, doesn't mean that I need . . . or want . . . one on a cruise. HAL didn't "cut" cruise staff, they just tweaked the concept and added folks to focus on different areas like the cooking classes with the "Party Planner", highly popular and free computer classes with the "Techspert", and the "Travel Guide" stuff like what I did on the ZUIDERDAM.

 

As a stockholder in both companies I'm interested in improving efficiency, performance, satisfaction and ROI. I've been cruising on HAL since the late 60s . . . you'd better believe things have changed! The world has changed! But on the whole it is a better experience that's affordable for more people and that's profitable.

 

Sorry to rant a bit, but sometime loyal CC HAL fans seem to view any change as negative or "cutting back."

 

Regards, Richard

[kelmac]

:rolleyes: And you are saying that Holland America has not spent a dime on any upgrades

http://www.hollandamerica.com/SOE

 

I think there are a few people totally misunderstanding what I am saying

 

Someone from CC just wrote me stating they thought I was bashing X and I will post here what my reply is.

 

Sorry I am not bashing Celebrity but merely stating a fact that no one can or has denied . I have written recently on several of my LIVE threads about things that HAL has let slip thru the cracks which could be from the declining economy. But kelmac is stating the X can do NO wrong yet comparing her recent Celebrity cruises on the brand new Solstice to cruises on HAL she has taken 3 to 5 years ago which has nothing to do with today's economy or recent times at all. I am just trying to state a comment that yes even X is sliding.

She made this comment about Brian Brian spent two days on one Celebrity ship four years ago, so his frame of reference is limited yet her reference in comparing all of her HAL cruises is from Veendam(12/03), Volendam(12/04), Zuiderdam(6/05

All of which have not been recent. I was just pointing out that comparing the Solstice to the Maasdam is not even close to being a fair comparison yet she wants to compare her sailing in 2003, 2004 and 2005 yet tells Brian his comparison from 4 years ago is not valid. Sorry you cannot have it both ways.

 

I agree that both cruise lines are definitely cutting back which is going back to the ORIGINAL POST. The questions is which one is showing more of a decline. There have been numerous reports of people being drastically dissappointed with Celebrity and can see a decline and yes the same with HAL but my comment is that HAL seems to be attempting to take better care of their ships fleet wide compared to X that is only showing pride and spending money on their newest ships from what I have read and talked with people. I will say this if I were to go on an X ship it would certainly be on the Solstice or the new one coming out.

 

Hi Lisa,

 

Celebrity is not a perfect cruise line! I wouldn't cruise Holland America eight times if I didn't like their product. By the way, I cruised the Maasdam this month (2009), the Westerdam eleven months ago (2008), the Maasdam New Years (2008), the Westerdam the last month of 2006, Zuiderdam 2005, Volendam 2004, and the Veendam 2003 -- so although my HAL experience is not as extensive as yours, it is pretty recent.

Yes, we loved our experience on the Solstice, not because it is new (2008), but because it has superior service, six alternative restaurants, wonderful food, and many innovative features. I love the present set up of the Maasdam -- it's the changes in dining room operation, the changes in the Lido, changes in staffing, the state of the onboard environmental systems (ie airconditioning), breakdown of the beds, a change to a hands off team approach to cabin service..., I know an aging ship will have problems, but look at what they have planned for the Maasdam, doesn't seem like upgrading??

You seemed to have a lot invested emotionally in Holland America, which is fine, but perhaps you should give Celebrity a try? :rolleyes::) I'm kind of a Celebrity cheerleader and you are kind of a HAL cheerleader, but the difference is, I'm usually a HAL cheerleader as well.

 

usha is a straight shooter and a very positive person. She's had experience with both Holland America and Celebrity. Over on the Celebrity boards, we both will take on the Celebrity Cheerleaders if they start bashing Holland America! Change is not always a bad thing, I just don't like the direction HAL seems to be going. Like I said, maybe this past Maasdam cruise and Westerdam cruise was just a fluke? I'm sure there will be more "DAM" ships in my future.

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

[INSIDERS CABIN]

Thank you Richard; a well-stated and wise perspective on this issue. As a shareholder and cruise-lover I agree. (BTW, thanks for the Panama info; we've booked on the Z.) We were just enjoying rather quaint family photos of early 60's European tour travel and enjoyed seeing the daily dress of suit and tie....and the in-flight Pan-AM photos showing rows of shirt and tie male business travelers! Yes, the world has changed!

[kelmac]

I read a lot where "change" of any kind seems to equal "cutting back" . . . which I think is a mistake. Both Celebrity and Holland America are aiming at a similar affluent, upscale audience and both have their tiny little things that are better than the other. If I could combine the best from both of these, I could pretty well create the "perfect" cruise line . . . at least for ME . . . doesn't mean everyone would like it.

 

I think both are trying to get the most bang for their buck and improve efficiencies and overall performance and service which should result in a better overall experience for guests. Change has always been a fact of life, but moreso now than ever before. There is continual tweaking of products . . . everyone may not like every tweak, but it doesn't necessarily mean the product is being downgraded . . . in most cases it is just the opposite.

 

Having trays in the Lido or not having trays in the Lido may represent the essence of service and "class" . . . I don't know. Just because I had a tray in the high school cafeteria line, doesn't mean that I need . . . or want . . . one on a cruise. HAL didn't "cut" cruise staff, they just tweaked the concept and added folks to focus on different areas like the cooking classes with the "Party Planner", highly popular and free computer classes with the "Techspert", and the "Travel Guide" stuff like what I did on the ZUIDERDAM.

 

As a stockholder in both companies I'm interested in improving efficiency, performance, satisfaction and ROI. I've been cruising on HAL since the late 60s . . . you'd better believe things have changed! The world has changed! But on the whole it is a better experience that's affordable for more people and that's profitable.

 

Sorry to rant a bit, but sometime loyal CC HAL fans seem to view any change as negative or "cutting back."

 

Regards, Richard

 

Well said Richard!

 

I too, have been a stock holder of both companies off and on for the past eight years. Carnival Corp is a stronger company becasue they protect the bottom line much better compared to RCI. RCI is making a bold move with all their new ships and they may not make it through these tough times. The Celebrity and Azamara divisions of RCI are not great money makers, but man they offer a "big bang" for the buck. As a customer, it's fun, but it may not last??? I do think the bean counters are in HAL's face right now, so most of their changes seem to be protective in nature.

I'm not a big corporate fan anymore and believe privately held companies have less waste, but that's another thread.:rolleyes:

By the way, I'm actually a fan of no trays in the Lido. Seems to keep the feeding frenzy to a minimum. I do, however, see the frustration it causes parents with children, the elderly, and people with mobility issues.

Change can be good!

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

[alsas]

Wow what a dilema .We (and I mean all of us) are so fortunate that we are able to have the ability to judge between both lines. We were X fans for a long time and unfortunately the drop in there standard was repeated 3 cruises in a row. We then became H/A fans and started to begin our love affair with them. Now we understand that "ANY DAY AT SEA FOR US IS THE BEST." For the last ten years we have enjoyed each and every cruise each for different reasons. FIRST AND THE MOST IMPORTANT. THE STAFF ON EACH CRUISE WE HAVE BEEN ON ARE ALL FIRST RATE, SOME CERTAINLY MORE THAN OTHERS BUT ALL VERY PROFFESIONAL. What makes a great cruise for us BEING AT SEA, The Passengers, The ability to meet people from diffrent countries, and never taking for granted how blessed we all are. We recently were on a very inexpensive cruise (going into dry dock) and expectations were not high because of the cost, we were so delighted the food was outstanding, the staff were outstanding, the passengers were outstanding, and the weather was fantastic.This was a H/A ship but I feel that with the combinations of all the items mentioned it would not have made a difference. What I am trying to say is what items could I have taken away and still felt the cruise was fantastic, each to ther own.May all our problems be what cruise line should we select. HAPPY SAILING ALSAS

[traveler111]

Charm strikes the sight, but merit wins the soul. Pope :)

[Opinions]

Kel, while I have never done a Celebrity Cruise and hope to someday. I do not think it is really fair to judge HAL against the Solstice and your last cruise with HAL was on the Maasdam one of the older ships in HAL's Fleet.

 

If one has never sailed on Celebrity I don't think it is fair to be making any judgements about the line...In my opinion comparisons of HAL vs. Celebrity is best left to those who have sailed both cruise lines.

[swedish weave]

If one has never sailed on Celebrity I don't think it is fair to be making any judgements about the line...In my opinion comparisons of HAL vs. Celebrity is best left to those who have sailed both cruise lines.

 

I have sailed both recently, and see decline in both lines. I guess that is why the majority of my cruise budget goes to NCL. I take at least 6 cruises per year, so am not a novice. I see improvement in NCL while others are declining in maintenance and service.

[willy paul]

We have been on both lines and have seen changes, not necessarily reductions, in service, entertainment and dining. Some have been positive others have been what we consider negative but the world changes each day and cruising will change with it. Think what you are paying in current dollars and what you paid in the past in dollars of that time. Did that change in a positive or negative way?

HAL is my wife's favorite line and Celebrity is my favorite line, but we do not say we have to go on either line. We look at all the aspects ( itinerary, age of the ship, cost, etc) and decide what we both would like. Sometimes I win and sometimes she wins, but best of all we are going on a cruise - "The best of all worlds."

Enjoy what you can do and do not worry about what was.

[Wild Thing ~T]

[quote name='alsas']Wow what a dilema .We (and I mean all of us) are so fortunate that we are able to have the ability to judge between both lines. We were X fans for a long time and unfortunately the drop in there standard was repeated 3 cruises in a row. We then became H/A fans and started to begin our love affair with them. Now we understand that "ANY DAY AT SEA FOR US IS THE BEST." For the last ten years we have enjoyed each and every cruise each for different reasons. FIRST AND THE MOST IMPORTANT. THE STAFF ON EACH CRUISE WE HAVE BEEN ON ARE ALL FIRST RATE, SOME CERTAINLY MORE THAN OTHERS BUT ALL VERY PROFFESIONAL. What makes a great cruise for us BEING AT SEA, The Passengers, The ability to meet people from diffrent countries, and never taking for granted how blessed we all are. We recently were on a very inexpensive cruise (going into dry dock) and expectations were not high because of the cost, we were so delighted the food was outstanding, the staff were outstanding, the passengers were outstanding, and the weather was fantastic.This was a H/A ship but I feel that with the combinations of all the items mentioned it would not have made a difference. What I am trying to say is what items could I have taken away and still felt the cruise was fantastic, each to ther own.May all our problems be what cruise line should we select. HAPPY SAILING ALSAS[/quote]

Alsas, well said! You read my mind! We also have enjoyed cruises on both lines and like both fairly equal. In my opinion I have NEVER had a bad cruise.;)

My husband always says "the worst day of vacation is better than the best day at work" ANYTIME!! I agree!

We are considering a Hawaii cruise and my husband does not want all of the sea days involved with most lines, so we have been looking at NCL. So, I appreciate your post Swedish Weave, thank you!

Hope to sail with all of you positive fun loving cruisers in the future!:D

[iancal]

We have never, ever had a 'bad' cruise on either line. Have only been on HAL once. We like both, DH prefers Celebrity. Cleanliness and ship conditions were about the same. I think a good deal depends on the ship, on the ship's management team, and of course on the crew. What we really noticed on HAL-and have noticed a similar occurance on Princess, is the quality of the DR food ingredients. To be more precise, we found that the quality of meat on HAL was similar to our last Princess cruise, ie it was not top restaurant grade. In the case of Princess, we saw a real difference over a three year period. I think all of the cruise lines are cutting back in different areas depending on line/ship. The variances may be attributable to whether the cutbacks are in areas that each individual notices. We accept this because the the cost of cruising has remained constant at best, and probably declined over the past several years. So something has to give-either from an expense perspective or a revenue perspective. It is clear to me that most of the ships that we have sailed on lately are doing both in order to stay 'afloat'. We can whine and moan but the fact remains that, like airlines, a large majority of the target clientele base their buying decisions on price. The cruise companies are responding to this.

[satchiesmom]

We have sailed on HAL and Celebrity almost exclusively since we started cruising, which admittedly was fairly recently (2003). We love both lines, but have seen some declines in both. Our most recent cruise was on the Westerdam (12/08) and we found it disappointing. The service in the main DR was not up to HAl's usual standard, and our cabin was looking a little tired. But we did enjoy the cruise over all. Our last Celebrity cruise was January '08 on the Century and although we love the ship, we did notice a slight decline in the product, though not in the service. I don't consider myself a cheerleader for either line, but I do think that one should have cruised on both lines before making any comparisons.
There are many things to be enjoyed on both HAL and X and we plan to continue sailing both as long as we enjoy the experience.
We are trying Oceania next and are looking forward to enjoying that experience also.
Just my 2 cents worth. Here's hoping that we all enjoy the fact that we are very, very fortunate to be enjoying the cruise experience in these tough economic times and start having fun!