Issue w/Customs returning from Conquest

[trock]

We're quite civilized that way.

 

 

Really, eh?

Got a Molson eh?

 

Outside the Maple Leaf Gardens... Civility was lost, eh?

lol

[Kurbanfan]

I like the idea of one line for those without passport and all the others stations for those with passport. Once all the people with passports are done they can let the line without passports use all the stations.

 

If you are going out of the country get a passport........................

 

All the news stations like CNN and the local newspaper reported you MUST have a passport to travel outside of USA before June....... Don't blame the agent for not understanding the rules that keep changing and the news sources cannot even report them correctly.....

 

I do too......it worked great on our RCCL cruise.......us that had passports were out like a breeze......although we still had to wait for our non passport car poolers:D:p

[Warm Breezes]

I like the idea of one line for those without passport and all the others stations for those with passport. Once all the people with passports are done they can let the line without passports use all the stations.

 

If you are going out of the country get a passport........................

 

All the news stations like CNN and the local newspaper reported you MUST have a passport to travel outside of USA before June....... Don't blame the agent for not understanding the rules that keep changing and the news sources cannot even report them correctly.....

Sorry but I don't agree with this. It is the agents job to know the rules he is supposed to be enforcing. So yes he should be blamed for not understanding them. By not understanding them he is not doing his job. Especially if he is working a cruise terminal.

 

Until I am required by the government or the cruiseline to get a passport, I am not going to spend the extra $400 to get them for my family. This could be our last trip out of the country and what a waste it would have been to purchase them before they were required if we do not ever need them again. Unless required, I'm not buying. I have yet to have any problems or hold ups cruising with just DL and Birth Certificates. At this point in time, IMHO, passports are just not worth it. The risk of traveling without them is not high enough to cover the cost of them for me.

[Cruise, J.D.]

Don't blame the agent for not understanding the rules that keep changing and the news sources cannot even report them correctly.....

 

The final rule has been published for over a year and it was promulgated by the very government agency employing the agent. Yes, the agent is to blame. I would think minimum competency for working as a border agent at a cruise ship terminal would be understanding the rules for cruises.

[TamLaiSang]

I've read this entire thread and others like it. I'm not even going to begin to argue that you "need" a passport... but I would like to take a moment to look at the exceptions:

 

However, as of June 1, 2009, U.S. citizens embarking on a cruise that both originates and terminates at the same U.S. port are not required to have a passport, but will need proof of citizenship such as an original or certified copy of a birth certificate, a certificate of naturalization, a passport card, an enhanced driver’s license (EDL) as well as a government-issued photo ID.

 

Let me just point something out:

 

If you are traveling with a photo copy of a birth certificate... not an original or a "certified copy" you are not in compliance. FYI... that fancy thing you keep in your scrap book is not an "original copy", hehe.

 

If you are traveling without an enhanced DL (which include people in about 45 states) you are not in compliance.

 

"...as well as a photo id" means WITH a certified copy of a birth certificate...not your Arizona Driver's license by itself.

 

Now that might be common sense to many of us...but how many people out there just make a photo copy of the birth certificates, and think that is going to be enough? How many people show up with their driver's license, assuming that it is sufficient, and don't even realize that a vast majority of people in this country, themselves included, aren't issued "enhanced" IDs?

 

I just think some of us are so smug in our knowledge of the exceptions, we forget that there are exceptions to the exceptions...and obviously that the exception is not the rule. Like many of those people rejected from the South American Cruise, who no doubt thought they had all their paperwork in order, many of us might be assuming that we have it right...when we really don't.

 

Why do some seem to manage without any problem...while others get harassed? It is the same reason why some of us get pulled over for speeding while others don't. It's the same reason that some of us just get a warning for speeding, while others get tickets. We don't always get caught or prosecuted, when we are breaking the law.

 

Carnival has been saying for years that "Passports are STRONGLY recommended". many travel agents don't even bother with the exceptions, and just tell people, "you need a passport". They do this...because they know full and well...that if you show up at port with a copy of a birth certificate, and you are denied boarding...you're going to blame them.

 

No...you don't "need" a passport...but it's a good idea to make darn sure that you are in compliance if you don't have one...and I have a sneaking suspicion that there are many...many individuals that THINK they are in compliance, when they really aren't.

 

In fact...in many cases...the easiest way for people to be IN compliance, is to just get the Passport, or Federal issued ID that is recommended.

 

 

[Donray]

Sorry but I don't agree with this. It is the agents job to know the rules he is supposed to be enforcing. So yes he should be blamed for not understanding them. By not understanding them he is not doing his job. Especially if he is working a cruise terminal.

 

Until I am required by the government or the cruiseline to get a passport, I am not going to spend the extra $400 to get them for my family. This could be our last trip out of the country and what a waste it would have been to purchase them before they were required if we do not ever need them again. Unless required, I'm not buying. I have yet to have any problems or hold ups cruising with just DL and Birth Certificates. At this point in time, IMHO, passports are just not worth it. The risk of traveling without them is not high enough to cover the cost of them for me.

 

You my get in the line for those without passports. No need to hold up the people that travel a lot and have passports.

 

I agree with you that the governmnet should require a passport to get back in the USA....

[lovesublime]

I don't understand why so many here are so resistant to get a passport. It's actually the very best form of I.D. you could ever carry. I guess these people never plan to go anywhere but on closed loop cruises. Everyone in my family has a passport. Heck, my DH has three of them. Our son is 24 y/o and has had a passport since he was one week old. We wouldn't be without them.

[DFW Airwolf]

I know I use my passport everytime I fly or such. I have this aversion to constantly having to show my DL. In fact I now REFUSE to show my DL to any official unless I am involved in driving a vehicle. I will state to them "My DL is for the LEGAL purpose of operating a motor vehicle. It is NOT a Govt ID card." I will also refuse to show picture ID unless it is for something that requires it. All you are required to do by Law Enforcement is IDENTIFY yourself when asked. So I will tell them my name. If they push for more, then THEY are in violation of the law. Have helped several people get several Law Enforcement people in to trouble over this as they were a little to Ramboish about it.

 

KNOW YOUR RIGHTS & DEFEND THEM !!!!

[martek]

Why not just solve the problem by paying the money and getting the passport???????

[Cruise, J.D.]

I've read this entire thread and others like it. I'm not even going to begin to argue that you "need" a passport... but I would like to take a moment to look at the exceptions:

 

However, as of June 1, 2009, U.S. citizens embarking on a cruise that both originates and terminates at the same U.S. port are not required to have a passport, but will need proof of citizenship such as an original or certified copy of a birth certificate, a certificate of naturalization, a passport card, an enhanced driver’s license (EDL) as well as a government-issued photo ID.

 

Let me just point something out:

 

If you are traveling with a photo copy of a birth certificate... not an original or a "certified copy" you are not in compliance. FYI... that fancy thing you keep in your scrap book is not an "original copy", hehe.

 

If you are traveling without an enhanced DL (which include people in about 45 states) you are not in compliance.

 

Nope. You need to read the actual law, rather than a poorly worded summary on Carnival's website. You do not have to have an EDL.

 

An EDL is proof of citizenship and identity. A BC + regular DL also satisfies the requirements of proof of citizenship and identity. Everything on the DHS website also states this.

 

If you dispute this, then please quote from the actual WHTI final rule the authority for your proposition.

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/whti_landseafinalrule.pdf

[rednose83]

Sorry but I don't agree with this. It is the agents job to know the rules he is supposed to be enforcing. So yes he should be blamed for not understanding them. By not understanding them he is not doing his job. Especially if he is working a cruise terminal.

 

Until I am required by the government or the cruiseline to get a passport, I am not going to spend the extra $400 to get them for my family. This could be our last trip out of the country and what a waste it would have been to purchase them before they were required if we do not ever need them again. Unless required, I'm not buying. I have yet to have any problems or hold ups cruising with just DL and Birth Certificates. At this point in time, IMHO, passports are just not worth it. The risk of traveling without them is not high enough to cover the cost of them for me.

 

Do you think at some point they will change the rules and possibly throw your cruise plans in a lurch? IE- Passports required by Jan 1 and you have a cruise booked for Jan but no passport and the money is not budgeted.

 

I don't see a problem travelling without a passport. There's got to be "something" they can do so you can come home. What if you have to abandon ship and leave your passport (as in the ship sinks...) then what? Nobody can come home since there aren't any passports?

 

Perhaps, you could get 1 person a PP per year. Spread the costs out more then who cares if the rule changes.

[TamLaiSang]

Nope. You need to read the actual law, rather than a poorly worded summary on Carnival's website. You do not have to have an EDL.

 

An EDL is proof of citizenship and identity. A BC + regular DL also satisfies the requirements of proof of citizenship and identity. Everything on the DHS website also states this.

 

If you dispute this, then please quote from the actual WHTI final rule the authority for your proposition.

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/whti_landseafinalrule.pdf

 

Thanks for the 150 page link, but it doesn't really change what I said.

 

I'm pretty sure you cut off the part of my quote that made the statement correct:

 

"...as well as a photo id" means WITH a certified copy of a birth certificate...not your Arizona Driver's license by itself.

 

There was nothing that I said in the above statement that was materially incorrect, although I can certainly see how you would interpret it that way. Perhaps I could have phrased it more clearly.

 

When I was speaking of IDs, I was talking about people showing up with a DL only (not enhanced), and no certified birth certificate:

 

How many people show up with their driver's license, assuming that it is sufficient, and don't even realize that a vast majority of people in this country, themselves included, aren't issued "enhanced" IDs?

 

Rather than argue minutia...and I think your criticism reinforces my original premise...many may think they are in compliance when they aren't. Especially when they are relying on, as you put it, "a poorly worded summary on Carnival's website".

[TamLaiSang]

I'm not an attorney, but I have spent quite a bit of time working in law enforcement, and working in the courts (which is more than can be said about most attorneys, LOL).

 

If a cop or government official has wronged you...you may be right...even entitled to compensation... but that argument doesn't often take place until years after the fact, and even then...very few actually feel the compensation is worth the ordeal they went though in the first place.

 

If you get in an argument with a customs official about your paperwork, YOU MAY BE RIGHT. But that doesn't mean that you'll avoid the immediate consequences which might mean a missed flight, missed port, perhaps even incarceration in the US or abroad.

 

God forbid you find out later that you were actually mistaken...

[Cruise, J.D.]

 

There was nothing that I said in the above statement that was materially incorrect, although I can certainly see how you would interpret it that way. Perhaps I could have phrased it more clearly.

 

When I was speaking of IDs, I was talking about people showing up with a DL only (not enhanced), and no certified birth certificate:

 

 

Thanks for the clarification. There has been so much misinformation spread that I was afraid "DLs v. EDLs" was going to become the new debate. :)

[nanuak]

in gummint speak, $100.00 probably is a "loss leader!" the gpo likely charges the pp office $200 to print the book with the 'chip' inside. Then there is the wages, health care and retirement benefits for the 687 federal employees that must review and approve the application. Then there must be a cost added for background research on the applicant. No that is never actually done but the cost to do it if it was done is always added in. Then there is s&h. Actual cost to the taxpayer is probably around $26953.65 or $119,258,982.11. It...could...go...either...way!!!:rolleyes::d

 

lmao!

[KITKAT0229]

Thought I should repost this. If you start at the US Department of State's website and click through the links, this is the information you will find :-)

 

From DHS:

http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/crossingborders/#0

 

Land/Sea Travel

 

 

Beginning June 1, 2009

• U.S. citizens entering the United States at sea or land ports of entry are required to have documents that comply with the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI), most commonly a U.S. passport, a passport card, a trusted traveler card such as NEXUS, SENTRI or FAST, or an enhanced driver's license. See the complete list of WHTI-compliant documents.
  

From WHTI:

 

http://www.getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/index.html

U.S. Border Crossing Requirements Are Changing - Get Compliant by June 1, 2009!

 

Simplify your travel checklist!

On June 1, 2009, U.S. citizens returning home from Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean or Bermuda, by land or sea, will be required to present one of the travel documents listed below.

Many of these documents are already available, and obtaining one now will ensure that you are ready on June 1, 2009, when they will be required.

U.S. Passport – This is an internationally recognized travel document that verifies a person’s identity and nationality. It is accepted for travel by air, land and sea.

U.S. Passport Card – This is a new, limited-use travel document that fits in your wallet and costs less than a U.S. Passport. It is only valid for travel by land and sea.

Enhanced Driver’s License (EDL) – Several states and Canadian provinces are issuing this driver’s license or identification document that denotes identity and citizenship. It is specifically designed for cross-border travel into the U.S. by land or sea.

Trusted Traveler Program Cards – NEXUS, SENTRI or FAST enrollment cards can speed your entry into the U.S. and are issued only to pre-approved, low-risk travelers. The cards are valid for use at land or sea; the NEXUS card can be used in airports with a NEXUS kiosk.

Special Groups – Information for Children, Groups of Children, Native Americans, "Closed Loop" Cruises, U.S. Lawful Permanent Residents, U.S. Military, Merchant Mariners, Ferries and Small Boats, and Boaters.

Knowing what documents are required and having them ready when you return home will help streamline the entry process and ensure your return to the U.S. is as smooth as possible.

 

http://www.getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/eng_sa.html

 

"Closed Loop" Cruises: U.S. citizens who board a cruise ship at a port within the United States, travel only within the Western Hemisphere, and return to the same U.S. port on the same ship may present a government issued photo identification, along with proof of citizenship (an original or copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular report of Birth Abroad, or a Certificate of Naturalization). Please be aware that you may still be required to present a passport to enter the foreign countries your cruise ship is visiting. Check with your cruise line to ensure you have the appropriate documents.

 

So for Closed Loop cruises you need:

 

a) a government issued photo identification

&

b) proof of citizenship

[KITKAT0229]

This is what's posted on Carnival's website:

 

http://www.carnival.com/CMS/fun/cruise_control/EMB_travel_document.aspx?icid=CC_HMPG_passport

 

TRAVEL DOCUMENTATION - all ports (excluding Europe) As you prepare for your "Fun Ship" vacation, please keep in mind that proper travel documentation is required at embarkation and throughout the cruise. Even though our guests may have completed registration using FUNPASS, it is still necessary to bring all required travel documents. Please check with your travel agent and/or government authority to determine the travel documents needed for each port of call. Any guest without proper documents will not be allowed to board the vessel and no refund of the cruise fare will be issued.

Carnival assumes no responsibility for advising guests of immigration requirements.

PASSPORT UPDATE:

 

CRUISE TRAVEL

Carnival Cruise Lines strongly recommends all of our guests travel with a valid passport. However, as of June 1, 2009, U.S. citizens embarking on a cruise that both originates and terminates at the same U.S. port are not required to have a passport, but will need proof of citizenship such as an original or certified copy of a birth certificate, a certificate of naturalization, a passport card, an enhanced driver’s license (EDL) as well as a government-issued photo ID. Children are also required to bring proof of citizenship, and if 16 and over, a photo ID is also required.

 

U.S. citizens calling on ports in Honduras, Panama, Costa Rica and Belize will also be exempt from the passport requirement.

 

Canadian and Bermudian citizens are required to have a passport for air, land and sea travel, including all Carnival cruises.

 

If a cruise begins and ends in different U.S. ports, or begins and ends in a foreign port (such as our Alaska cruises and Hawaii cruises) a valid passport or other recognized WHTI-compliant document is required. A valid passport is required if you are traveling on any of our Europe cruises.

Although a passport is not required for U.S. citizens taking cruises that both originate and terminate at the same U.S. port, we, again, strongly recommend all guests travel with a passport (valid for at least six months beyond completion of travel). Having a passport will enable guests to fly from the U.S. to a foreign port in the event they miss their scheduled embarkation or to fly back to the U.S. if they need to disembark the ship mid-cruise due to an emergency.

ALL guests need proper proof of citizenship in order to travel and failure to present a valid document at check in will result in denied boarding and no refund will be issued.

 

For more information, a complete list of WHTI-compliant documents or to obtain a passport application, visit www.travel.state.gov.

U.S. Alien Residents need a valid Alien Resident Card, Non-U.S. citizens need a valid passport and a valid, unexpired U.S. Multiple Re-entry Visa, if applicable.

 

AIR TRAVEL

Passports are required for air travel to or from Canada, Mexico, Central and South America, the Caribbean, The Bahamas and Bermuda. This will impact all guests traveling by air to embark or debark in Vancouver for our Alaska or Hawaii cruises; and our Canadian guests that travel by air to or from any of our U.S. embarkation ports. This will also enable guests to fly from the U.S. to meet their ship at the first port should they miss their scheduled embarkation and allow guests that must debark the ship before their cruise ends to fly back to the U.S. without significant delays and complications.

Guest names on travel documents (passport, Alien Resident Card, birth certificate, etc.) must be identical to those on the cruise and airline tickets. Otherwise, proof of name change (e.g., a marriage license) or a valid driver's license (or other government-issued photo ID) must be presented.

On occasion, non-U.S. citizens and U.S. Alien Residents may be asked to surrender their passport and/or Alien Resident Card at time of embarkation. These documents will be returned upon completion of the Immigration inspection at the time of debarkation. Non-U.S. citizens that are eligible to apply for admission under the Visa Waiver Pilot Program, must still have a valid unexpired passport. U.S. State Department regulations require all guests traveling from visa-waiver countries be in possession of a machine-readable passport that includes a biometric identifier - e.g., embedded digital photograph. Otherwise, guests will be required to obtain a U.S. Multiple Re-entry Visa. Guests without proper identification may be refused boarding or entry into the United States.

For Europe and Transatlantic cruises, U.S. citizens must have a valid passport. Alien Residents and all other non-U.S. citizens are advised to check with their travel agent or appropriate government authority to determine the necessary documents. Certain foreign nationals will be required to obtain a Schengen Visa and/or Croatian Visa.

For sailings to Canadian ports of call, certain foreign nationals must obtain a Canadian visa in addition to the U.S. Multiple Re-entry Visa. Non-U.S. citizens must contact the appropriate consulates, U.S. Embassy and U.S. Immigration office to inquire about necessary travel documentation.

For sailings to Bermuda, U.S. Alien Residents must present their valid Alien Resident Card in addition to their passport or birth certificate from country of origin. These documents will be returned upon completion of the Immigration inspection.

To debark for more than 24 hours in Mexico, guests must have obtained a Mexican Tourist Card from either a travel agent or a Mexican consulate prior to their departure.

When traveling with a minor and both parents/legal guardians are not cruising, we strongly recommend bringing an original signed letter from the absent parent/legal guardian authorizing the minor to travel with you. This will expedite processing by the Department of Homeland Security. Please note that a notarized letter to this effect is required if debarking with children in Mexico.

[Warm Breezes]

You my get in the line for those without passports. No need to hold up the people that travel a lot and have passports.

 

I agree with you that the governmnet should require a passport to get back in the USA....

Cruised 5 times with Birth Certificates and Drivers Licenses. Have not been held up yet.

[Warm Breezes]

Do you think at some point they will change the rules and possibly throw your cruise plans in a lurch? IE- Passports required by Jan 1 and you have a cruise booked for Jan but no passport and the money is not budgeted.

 

I don't see a problem travelling without a passport. There's got to be "something" they can do so you can come home. What if you have to abandon ship and leave your passport (as in the ship sinks...) then what? Nobody can come home since there aren't any passports?

 

Perhaps, you could get 1 person a PP per year. Spread the costs out more then who cares if the rule changes.

 

I have the money, I just don't want to spend it unnecessarily. Until it is required, I have other uses for it. $400 is a lot to spend if it is not required to be spent. I will not give the gov't $400 of my money until 1) they require it for a closed loop cruise that we are going on or 2) we decide to go on a vacation where it is required. Neither of these options may happen so why should I give the gov't $400 for something that may not happen. Waste of money IMHO.

[Kurbanfan]

If you get in an argument with a customs official about your paperwork, YOU MAY BE RIGHT. But that doesn't mean that you'll avoid the immediate consequences which might mean a missed flight, missed port, perhaps even incarceration in the US or abroad.

 

God forbid you find out later that you were actually mistaken...

 

Exactly! And a simple solution.......a passport that comes out to a measly $10 a year.........people spend more then that on coffee.......

[robint]

I have seen Canadian Custom officials question children also... I actually think its a great idea.. if done with the proper tone...

 

The Customs Official in Canada gently greeted the child.. hello there buddy! And who are these people you are taking on your trip...

Along those lines... a quick mommy and daddy reply was all it took :)

 

My kids get asked this (in the same gentle manner) every time we fly out of the Denver airport.

[*Mach*]

Just heard from a friend at Carnival in Miami... closed loop cruises require a birth certificate and driver's license.

They're checking with one more source in Washington to be 100% certain...

I'm hoping this information will be sent down to the Customs folks in Galveston...

 

:)

[chelle74]

I will not give the gov't $400 of my money until 1) they require it for a closed loop cruise that we are going on or 2) we decide to go on a vacation where it is required.

 

EXACTLY! I give the government enough of my money as it is. If I don't HAVE to pay for a passport now, I'm not going to. I enjoy being able to spend that $10 a year on other things. Like 2 lattes at Starbucks. :D

[trock]

My kids get asked this (in the same gentle manner) every time we fly out of the Denver airport.

 

Great! I am sure what the op and the other poster stated is not the norm.. I know that my one "rotten" experience was the only one and really not horrible... out of all my travels..

[TexBear]

I have the money, I just don't want to spend it unnecessarily. Until it is required, I have other uses for it. $400 is a lot to spend if it is not required to be spent. I will not give the gov't $400 of my money until 1) they require it for a closed loop cruise that we are going on or 2) we decide to go on a vacation where it is required. Neither of these options may happen so why should I give the gov't $400 for something that may not happen. Waste of money IMHO.

 

The passports are good for 10 years, so an expenduiture of $400 now works out to a rate of $40 a year. Is that such a burden?

 

What's more, by having the passports, you'll be prepared for any out-of-country travel you do while the passports are valid!