tipping

[fairstars]

Hi Everyone,

 

Has anybody considered the salary divided by the amount of hours worked to get a true indication of the wages?

 

Happy cruising,

Chris

[kcbj]

dos any one normaly tip in there general life in australia?

why shoud any one tip on a cruise that is based in australia.

 

Hi All,

 

I think the difficulty we in Australia have with tipping is that it is not in our culture. I never tip anyone at home. On P&O ships, tipping is there and that's just the way it is.

 

We'll be leaving the auto-tipping on. A few of my dollars spread amongst them wont hurt me. The average Australian is rich beyond the dreams of most of these workers.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Clive

[fishtaco]

Agree with auto tips or not,go see how many people in the que at the pursers desk on the last day having them taken off!

 

Many people have good intentions of leaving auto tips in place until they get their bill print out!

 

People who are dead against it usually take them off soon after boarding,others change their mind after the print out.

 

I think cruise staff get paid plenty enough,security staff on my cruises got paid under Au/NZ rules and were paid quite well.

 

Filipino/Indian workers etc would get the same deal according to comparative pay in their own country,if not they would not do the job! Not a lot to us but plenty for them.

 

I like auto tips as i need not carry any cash on board,pay with my cruise card,pay up at the end courtesy Mr visa card.

 

no cash on board lessens the likelihood of temptation of pilfering,begging and expected hand outs for over and above service that would be offered if cash was known to be carried by all passengers.

 

I leave my auto tips on and don't feel the slightest bit guilty not leaving extra for waiters at the end of the cruise or when I shake the hand of my steward as I vacate my cabin.

 

It also doesn't bother me weather others tip or not,auto or hand out,its up to them!

 

If staff think they don't get paid enough because tips are low on Australian cruises then they are in the wrong job,a tip is just that, a tip not a wage supplement.

 

I tip in everyday situations in Australia,this is my choice.I would also tip on a cruise if auto tips were not in place.

 

Auto tips make life onboard easier for me.

[LuckiePuris]

Agree with auto tips or not,go see how many people in the que at the pursers desk on the last day having them taken off!

 

Many people have good intentions of leaving auto tips in place until they get their bill print out!

 

People who are dead against it usually take them off soon after boarding,others change their mind after the print out.

 

I think cruise staff get paid plenty enough,security staff on my cruises got paid under Au/NZ rules and were paid quite well.

 

Filipino/Indian workers etc would get the same deal according to comparative pay in their own country,if not they would not do the job! Not a lot to us but plenty for them.

 

I like auto tips as i need not carry any cash on board,pay with my cruise card,pay up at the end courtesy Mr visa card.

 

no cash on board lessens the likelihood of temptation of pilfering,begging and expected hand outs for over and above service that would be offered if cash was known to be carried by all passengers.

 

I leave my auto tips on and don't feel the slightest bit guilty not leaving extra for waiters at the end of the cruise or when I shake the hand of my steward as I vacate my cabin.

 

It also doesn't bother me weather others tip or not,auto or hand out,its up to them!

 

If staff think they don't get paid enough because tips are low on Australian cruises then they are in the wrong job,a tip is just that, a tip not a wage supplement.

 

I tip in everyday situations in Australia,this is my choice.I would also tip on a cruise if auto tips were not in place.

 

Auto tips make life onboard easier for me.

 

Agreed. Auto tips are just more convenient for passengers instead of having to go and fine your waiter etc and hand them cash.

 

I also tip in every day situations (etc. taxi drive, restaurants etc).

 

Like you said, a tip is a tip...something extra.

 

While I like to keep auto tips on or prepay tips if available, I do understand that some passengers are on a budget and if they were to keep auto tips on, once calculated for all passengers, it may make all the difference about whether they can or can't afford to cruise.

 

If you can afford to tip, do so. But if they cannot afford to tip, I hope passengers don't feel guilty as they are paying their cruise fare and a tip is just something extra.

[Australian family]

Does anyone know if Holland America are the same as P&O, I know that we have to pay tips at a set amount on the cruise, do they also show crew which passengers don't pay?

[The_Big_M]

I'm not sure what you mean by same. They're both part of Carnival group if that's what you mean.

 

However, their tipping amount varies from P&O, in part due to their higher class/service level. Their rate is USD11/day/person. Crew on any ship will be provided with a list of who has paid a tip and who has not; those giving a tip usually prefer it known that they appreciated the service enough to warrant giving a tip.

[dropanchor]

Does anyone know if Holland America are the same as P&O, I know that we have to pay tips at a set amount on the cruise, do they also show crew which passengers don't pay?

 

Hi, I dont know ANY cruiseline that shows staff who has and who hasnt and when you think about it you would be off the ship before anyone knew anyway as you can go down the last morning and complain. I am sure that All shipping companies keep a record of their passengers customs and habits as does any good business but as for the crew knowing I dont beleive that is the case however what is fact is if you fill out those cards for good serice they are actually posted in the crew teams place of work as a award and they also get extra time of the ship or a bonus pick your port if they have been getting good wraps-Bruce

[LuckiePuris]

 

If staff think they don't get paid enough because tips are low on Australian cruises then they are in the wrong job,a tip is just that, a tip not a wage supplement.

 

As Fishtaco has said, a tip isn't a wage supplement.

 

I think what many of us forget is that their wage may not seem like much to us compared to Australian wages. But when you compare it to their wages back home, what they are being paid onboard is about the same if not more than their local wages.

 

In India, the average wage per month currently stands at US$145 per month. ($1,740 a year). White collar average US$335 per month ($4,020 a year).

 

http://www.haygroup.com/india/compensationtrends.pdf

 

So what they are being paid onboard as wages doesn't seem to be as low as we often think.

 

That being said, I like to keep automatic tipping for convenience and also like to give something extra to the staff

[The_Big_M]

As Fishtaco has said, a tip isn't a wage supplement

 

It's not to us, in Australia.

 

However, cruising is a global industry, with lines headquartered in the US , the majority of cruises and passengers from the US, and crew travelling to get to them anyway. Thus, the pricing model is based on US customs. There are also significant tax and pricing implications there that mean a lower base price, with tips and taxes added, is the model.

 

Also, under the US salary structure, a base wage is reduced by the amount of expected tips such that the wage paid can be below the standard "minimum wage".

 

Thus, for a number of reasons, tips on most ships (for staff who receive them) are part of the wage. If tips were not given, staff would be working for negligible amounts each month; hence why cruiselines are moving to practically enforce tips (while still calling them voluntary).

[happyaussies]

:rolleyes: I agree with all the above, but I still don't see any guns pointed at the worker's heads. As mentioned the wage these folks receive while working on cruise ships, still outweigh the wages they would receive at home............so isn't that why they work on the cruise ships?

 

 

So get real folks....why are they telling us sob stories and who are falling for them?

Bubbs & Blues;)

[The_Big_M]

As mentioned the wage these folks receive while working on cruise ships, still outweigh the wages they would receive at home............so isn't that why they work on the cruise ships?

 

I agree; there wouldn't be much incentive if they were paid the same or less when they're then away from family, friends and everything else they are comfortable with. Most people want to work to live (and probably moreso if they are in a job such as room attendant - no slight on them, but it's not an easy, nor often pleasant job) and not vice versa.

 

Moreover, those jobs are mostly working every single day - no weekends and the day is lengthier, which is worse than jobs we take, and many they would typically compare to back home.

 

So get real folks....why are they telling us sob stories and who are falling for them?

 

My experience has been the opposite; they've been cheerful and friendly, thus appreciating and making the most of the opportunity they have. I haven't had any give sob stories... although I'm sure there are some that do around.

 

I just don't think it's reasonable to generally try to take advantage of their situation by stiffing their tip because our incomes are not based on tips, when theirs are. I think it's an indication of how fortunate we generally are, to have a somewhat stable income, and weekends or breaks in our labour.

[LuckiePuris]

It's not to us, in Australia.

 

However, cruising is a global industry, with lines headquartered in the US , the majority of cruises and passengers from the US, and crew travelling to get to them anyway. Thus, the pricing model is based on US customs. There are also significant tax and pricing implications there that mean a lower base price, with tips and taxes added, is the model.

 

Also, under the US salary structure, a base wage is reduced by the amount of expected tips such that the wage paid can be below the standard "minimum wage".

 

Thus, for a number of reasons, tips on most ships (for staff who receive them) are part of the wage. If tips were not given, staff would be working for negligible amounts each month; hence why cruiselines are moving to practically enforce tips (while still calling them voluntary).

 

I agree how you have worded this...that the "expected" tips are taken into consideration when paying wages.

 

I pasted the above example of average wages to give an example that the wages they earn onboard may be minimal compared to Australian standards but are most likely the same or higher than wages in their local countries. Also, the staff do not need to pay for food or accomodation or a few other extras while working on a cruise ship, not to mention having rostered days off for post visits etc. Having minimal living expenses are another benefit that would draw many to working on a cruise ship, so they are able to send more money home to support their families.

 

I personally think passengers should tip where possible, but not to fall for those sob stories and feel that they need to tip huge amounts beyond the recommended tipping amount

[dropanchor]

This is always a touchy subject but as a true blue boxing roo one eyed Aussie I cringe at times at how Australians dont want to pay their way. :mad: The saying often is "when in Rome";) well that is the case when you cruise on a International ship with International crew. If you want to go on the Manly Ferry or the Spirit of Tasmania etc then fine dont tip, or tip only those that give you the service you feel should be rewarded, however, when criusing on the International Ship the conditions of your cruise fare is there is a daily tipping fee attached to your account. Some cruiseline will give you the oppitunity to go down and have that waived however, as it is clearly stated in the terms of your booking and sailing, then I have always considered it as "part of the fare" ( like it or not ) just as the fuel levy is ...........I dont agree with it at times because not always do you get the value you think you should from the tip but it was clear when you booked and thats the long and short of it.

As for the crew, when they have done their 6 months contract they request to be given a "new contract" from Princess, NCL or RCI or whoever. They go home to wait the 4 months to be told you have a new contract and you will be on a plane for Miami or wherever in most cases with only a few days to orgainse themselves. Once landed where the cruiseline sends them, they are then told what ship they are going to be on and where it sails to and their duties unless they are only cabin crew etc.

They are then flown onto or board the ship and are given a cabin below waterline with at least 6 others and sometimes 8 ( the likes of Maitre D's can get a cabin to themselves but depending on the cruiseline they can also share, also below the water line as does in many cases your TV crew of a morning etc etc ) I have done around 80 cruises now ( I we dont count anymore) and I am amazed at the long hours 7 days a week these people put in. The wage they are given is like much of the hospitality industry everywhere that being a base and the hope of tips or commision/s and that makes it worthwhile. These people work 16 /7 ( at least) and with high expectations by everyone , live below the water line, while we sleep in balconys or mini suites they are cramped with no privacy and they do this to get on in life and better themselves and there familys, I think comparing what they can earn at "home" is simply not a fair judgement of the big picture

Since the introduction of the "volontary gratuity" the problem is now that it makes it harder to find more money for those who do go that extra yard and I am sure many suffer but by filling out those cards on crew members they do reap benifits from the cruiseline itself based on the cards given by passengers for excellent service

I dont beleive there is any better holiday than a cruise ( to ANYWHERE EVEN) and I would hate that I boarded and was resentful of the tipping and spoil my cruise instead of just excepting that the majority of people do tip and get on having great time -Bruce:)

[icemaiden2310]

i felt very sorry for my cabin steward last cruise. He was telling me how he was in the process of buying his second house....

[sunnydaze]

I have hesitated in commenting here, as my daughter is presently working on the PO Pacific Dawn as the Band Master/Music Director and Pianist. I hope my trying to enlighten you all, doesn't impede her position, as the very talented musician she is.

We are from Canada, and I usually peak in on discussions about whatever cruiseline she is currently working on, as I am interested in seeing pictures and reading info about the ship and ports she's presently at. Watching the web cam is a huge bonus - I hope I get to Australia one day.

The ship's employees would never tell you the truth, but I just can't keep my mouth shut any longer, I'm sorry, but some of you are wayyyyyyyyy off!

Unless you have worked on a cruise ship - you have NO idea!! There is so much that is never talked about.

My daughter has played (worked) on all major cruiselines, but this is her 1st Australia contract.

She gets paid in Australian $$.

Most of the other cruiselines did pay in USA$$.

Either way - when converted to our Canadian $ when she gets back home - it is much less money.

That website is only one agency, and there are so many different agents that all hire for the same

positions on the same cruiselines. You just can't go by that website. There are so many variables - many which are just not fair!

Did that website mention that some are hired, and don't get paid one penny???

They only get tip money!

Spa people for just one example, only get paid the tip money they make, and a tiny percentage of the products they sell ( that's why they push products). Other employees always tip them well for their services. Yes- they have to pay for everything, and even they, tip each other!

Many positions get wages depending on what country they are from. That website doesn't tell you that either.

Example - 2 bartenders doing the same job with the same experience - one coming from a very poor country might earn 1/4 of what a person from North America might earn. The thinking is that they are better off than where they came from - so yes - they are happy to work for peanuts - and usually send it all home to their families. I know one bartender who actually gives some of every paycheque to the other one, because he knows it's only fair.

They are often away from their families during special occasions and holiday times, so they all become their own loving ship family. They look after each other when they get sick, and become close lifetime friends.

Employees cabins are another story - many are in horrible areas ( some next to the poop tanks and loud vibrating engines ) and several people share a room!! I could go on for an hour about how some are not even allowed up to see daylight, like the poor fellow peeling your shrimp 24/7 down in the basement, but it's very up-setting for me to think of their living conditions.

I'll just say - that ALL employees would get fired if they took a family member or friend traveling on the ship, to their cabin to see where they live, in a run down, windowless, shabby room with a bed like that.

NONE of you would eat the food the crew has to eat - day after day -

The staff's food is slightly better - but nothing like what you eat. They all have to buy fresh, raw food from shore to stay healthy.

Nobody ever talks about the Marine medical tests costing up to $500. that they all have to get and pay for themselves, before getting the job. Every medical test known to mankind - chest x-rays, drug tests, pages and pages and pages of tests!

They have to get two Visas, criminal record checks etc. etc. - - Many have to borrow the money to pay for it, and that alone takes them a long time to pay off! Phoning home is out of the question for many.

I often see people saying that crew " got a day or long weekend off". No such thing! Most never get ANY days off.

You sign a contract, and don't have "days off" til your contract is over. They have to board the ship within 24 hr of landing in the country ( something to do with visas and passports) - usually they are picked up at the airport, and driven directly to the ship - the same thing when they finish their contract. So, NO - they don't get a pre - and post holiday.

My daughter is able to go ashore. She has traveled the whole world, and she's passionate about music, and loves performing every day. She has met so many interesting people, and has been blessed, at her young age, to be able to make a living doing what she loves to do, which is more than some people on land ever do.

Others just hope to break even when they leave the ship.

I just wanted to clear up a few things -

.

[longtocruise]

I have hesitated in commenting here, as my daughter is presently working on the PO Pacific Dawn as the Band Master/Music Director and Pianist. I hope my trying to enlighten you all, doesn't impede her position, as the very talented musician she is.

We are from Canada, and I usually peak in on discussions about whatever cruiseline she is currently working on, as I am interested in seeing pictures and reading info about the ship and ports she's presently at. Watching the web cam is a huge bonus - I hope I get to Australia one day.

The ship's employees would never tell you the truth, but I just can't keep my mouth shut any longer, I'm sorry, but some of you are wayyyyyyyyy off!

Unless you have worked on a cruise ship - you have NO idea!! There is so much that is never talked about.

My daughter has played (worked) on all major cruiselines, but this is her 1st Australia contract.

She gets paid in Australian $$.

Most of the other cruiselines did pay in USA$$.

Either way - when converted to our Canadian $ when she gets back home - it is much less money.

That website is only one agency, and there are so many different agents that all hire for the same

positions on the same cruiselines. You just can't go by that website. There are so many variables - many which are just not fair!

Did that website mention that some are hired, and don't get paid one penny???

They only get tip money!

Spa people for just one example, only get paid the tip money they make, and a tiny percentage of the products they sell ( that's why they push products). Other employees always tip them well for their services. Yes- they have to pay for everything, and even they, tip each other!

Many positions get wages depending on what country they are from. That website doesn't tell you that either.

Example - 2 bartenders doing the same job with the same experience - one coming from a very poor country might earn 1/4 of what a person from North America might earn. The thinking is that they are better off than where they came from - so yes - they are happy to work for peanuts - and usually send it all home to their families. I know one bartender who actually gives some of every paycheque to the other one, because he knows it's only fair.

They are often away from their families during special occasions and holiday times, so they all become their own loving ship family. They look after each other when they get sick, and become close lifetime friends.

Employees cabins are another story - many are in horrible areas ( some next to the poop tanks and loud vibrating engines ) and several people share a room!! I could go on for an hour about how some are not even allowed up to see daylight, like the poor fellow peeling your shrimp 24/7 down in the basement, but it's very up-setting for me to think of their living conditions.

I'll just say - that ALL employees would get fired if they took a family member or friend traveling on the ship, to their cabin to see where they live, in a run down, windowless, shabby room with a bed like that.

NONE of you would eat the food the crew has to eat - day after day -

The staff's food is slightly better - but nothing like what you eat. They all have to buy fresh, raw food from shore to stay healthy.

Nobody ever talks about the Marine medical tests costing up to $500. that they all have to get and pay for themselves, before getting the job. Every medical test known to mankind - chest x-rays, drug tests, pages and pages and pages of tests!

They have to get two Visas, criminal record checks etc. etc. - - Many have to borrow the money to pay for it, and that alone takes them a long time to pay off! Phoning home is out of the question for many.

I often see people saying that crew " got a day or long weekend off". No such thing! Most never get ANY days off.

You sign a contract, and don't have "days off" til your contract is over. They have to board the ship within 24 hr of landing in the country ( something to do with visas and passports) - usually they are picked up at the airport, and driven directly to the ship - the same thing when they finish their contract. So, NO - they don't get a pre - and post holiday.

My daughter is able to go ashore. She has traveled the whole world, and she's passionate about music, and loves performing every day. She has met so many interesting people, and has been blessed, at her young age, to be able to make a living doing what she loves to do, which is more than some people on land ever do.

Others just hope to break even when they leave the ship.

I just wanted to clear up a few things -

.

very nice review on what you have said ,

I have one thing to say.

Why should australians have to sub the rest of the world because they them selves wont fight for a fear wage.

This why people from most countries want to live here.

We dont tip in Australia and any company that is based in Australia and wants us Australians to sub there workers wages, should think again.

I think tipping should be baned and left to ever wants to tip to do so, instead of auto tipping.

If i want to tip ill go live and travel in the u.s.a, but because i want to live and travel in our back yard I dont think that it should be forced on me or us.

[sunnydaze]

Hey-

 

True blue boxing roo one eyed Aussie - ( I love it!)

 

Your post is right on!

 

I didn't know that Australians don't tip regularly, for everything, like we do!

[LuckiePuris]

I have a friend who works on cruise ships and can confirm that they are rewarded with days off where they can visit ports (I'm sure many of you aswell have seen cruise staff at the ports).

 

I agree that when looking at a cruise price, we should add the tipping amount in too when considering pricing. Tipping may not be custom in Australia but we are not cruising on Australian cruise ships.

 

The cruise ships are international, therefore international business. We need to follow their customs.

 

Although mandatory tipping isn't something we are custom to in Australia, I always tip at a restaurant, or a taxi ride etc. Who else tips in every day situations?

[The_Big_M]

Why should australians have to sub the rest of the world because they them selves wont fight for a fear wage.

This why people from most countries want to live here.

 

 

Actually, it's more like the "rest of the world" is subsidising those who don't tip - hence, as mentioned, the moves towards automatic tipping to reduce that.

 

Even in companies here, the employer has the wage-setting power. Look at the issues the past few years with "WorkChoices." A potential employee being picked up from the Philipines who doesn't have the commercial sophistication is in no position to demand that his wage be $X without tips. The recruiter will talk in terms of the total package and he gets to accept it... or someone else can take the position.

 

It's just the way things work - there are hundreds of ships worldwide with tens (hundreds?) of thousands of employees so even if someone wanted to re-structure things, they're in no position to when everybody else is working that way.

 

We dont tip in Australia and any company that is based in Australia and wants us Australians to sub there workers wages, should think again.

 

Well, P&O has been claiming to do great business here with employees in such a model so they don't seem too much in need to think again.

 

I'm not sure what you mean about subsidise though - customers always pay the worker's wages, whether you're in a hotel or a shop or anywhere else including a cruise. The shareholders/owner aren't paying the wages from their own pockets. The only issue here is that the cruise line charges a lower upfront cost with the expectation that you'll pay a share of the employee's wages on the cruise itself. There's no subsidisation going on; it's just how it's paid.

[longtocruise]

we or i couldnt care less, we dont tip, if poeple wont to work for less wages thats up to them. i remember that when we is oz were fighting for a far wage theses poeple were called scabs.

[fishtaco]

It's not to us, in Australia.

 

However, cruising is a global industry, with lines headquartered in the US , the majority of cruises and passengers from the US, and crew travelling to get to them anyway. Thus, the pricing model is based on US customs. There are also significant tax and pricing implications there that mean a lower base price, with tips and taxes added, is the model.

 

Also, under the US salary structure, a base wage is reduced by the amount of expected tips such that the wage paid can be below the standard "minimum wage".

 

Thus, for a number of reasons, tips on most ships (for staff who receive them) are part of the wage. If tips were not given, staff would be working for negligible amounts each month; hence why cruiselines are moving to practically enforce tips (while still calling them voluntary).

 

 

 

This is the way of the USA and we are in Australia and sailing on Australian cruises not USA cruises.

 

I learned this tipping lesson very quick in America, dont tip and next time you starve or die of thirst!

 

I am sure staff would not leave P&O Australia if tips were low, as tips are not part of the wage structure here or Auto tips would not be able to be removed?

 

 

 

Den

[longtocruise]

we or i couldnt care less, we dont tip, if poeple wont to work for less wages thats up to them. i remember that when we is oz were fighting for a far wage quote]

[The_Big_M]

I am sure staff would not leave P&O Australia if tips were low, as tips are not part of the wage structure here or Auto tips would not be able to be removed?

 

They're even able to be removed on US cruises. This is both:

i) a legal requirement - a compulsory charge is not a tip, which then means passengers have to pay more since taxes all round are higher, plus other financing issues, and

ii) to allow for bad service issues

 

Regarding the point of saying it's not part of the wage structure, equally why are auto-tips charged? Nobody else charges auto-tips.

 

Cruising is a global industry and service (tip-based) staff are recruited globally, not locally. The ships are also US-owned now so structures are made consistent.

[Rudy888]

I have heard in other threads complaints that the ships based out of Australia are not the newest but generally the oldest in the fleets. Could it be???

 

Rudy

[dropanchor]

I have heard in other threads complaints that the ships based out of Australia are not the newest but generally the oldest in the fleets. Could it be??? Rudy

 

NO it couldnt be Rudy:rolleyes:, the facts are the offering we are given by P & O has been for years were junk yard ships that should have been scrapped or sold to the greek islands. This is all coming out of the closet now since Carnival entered the market albeit is we are still "contolled" by P & O UK ( a agreement that took place between USA /UK & Aust) and our next lot of ships that arrive later this year are the thow out UK Ocean brand and while this is a long way better than the ships we have had in the past that were refurbished 40 yr old rust buckets we are still getting the hand me downs. We have not had balconys until very recently and yet we were paying mini suite prices !!!

I support tipping on International ships however I do not support tipping on any ship that is run by P & O Aust / ( UK), it is important to understand we are talking 2 different things here, Dawn Princess is "still" as I understand it under the USA ( Santa Clarita), all the others are P & O UK and really you cant compare :mad::rolleyes: starting at fares !!!!!!! down to loyalty programs, why, I guess for 100years P & O have held a monoply on our shipping at the docks ( remember the Mayflower etc) and it is only now starting to change where other cruiselines ( THANK GOODNESS !!!) are beginning to visit more and more and put preassure on this style of holidaying and giving us what the USA has been spoilt with for 20 years. Australians have in general great weather somewhat compared to your FL or CA and we are again in general very well paid compared to most other countries hence we travel a lot and we have always paid more than people for instance in the USA that can jump on a ship for 300 bucks....................if a Aussie had the chance to jump on a 4 or 5 star ship for 300-600 bucks for a week we would also be a lot more loose with our $$$$ however in Australia we also tip for SERVICE that is personal not a service that is given and expected as part of a chore/ service;) so in short your induendo is not correct there is a far bigger picture to look at-Bruce