Noggins

Indeed it is - but let me never find myself on a ship where I feel obliged to have room service because it is too much hassle to eat in the restaurants!

Much has been said about the quality of Emporium - by which folk mean the huge range of offerings nicely presented. But it's back to that old chestnust of 'hard' and 'soft' products. In this case the 'hard' product is stocking all the items / ingredients in the cupboard and the 'soft' element is actually turning it out in sufficient quantity on a just-in-time basis. And in this case seconds count for just-in-time to meet customer expectation. No-one should be surprised that when demand jumps the 'soft' side of the operation is likely to fall over pretty quickly. And I wouldn't be surprised if, in a while, there are many reports of Emproriuium not being what it was. From our own experience in March it felt like the ship would only work well when full-ish if a significant proportion of the passenger load were prepared to spend a LOT of time in their rooms - and certainly not all arriving for breakfsat at the same time!

The day by day account of our Explora trip was kindly posted by Terry (stickman) at post #2 on this thread. It's had a lot of views for some reason. The overall sense I reported was that the 'hardware' (easy to define / explain / point to) was terrific but that the 'software' (not so easy to define / explain / point to) let down the overall experience. I think it's important to remember that we don't all cruise in the same way and, in any event, we are all individuals with hugely different perceptions, views on what is or is not relevant, personalities etc etc. I think most of us cruise as couples (with a good number of single too). At the other end of the spectrum are those that regularly cruise with a group of friends. In the middle are those that cruise as couples / singles with the intention of finding like minded folk onboard to hook up with. We have been in all 3 of those categories and without doubt we are most aware of the ships 'software' when we are just the two of us and least aware when we are in a group. It's inevitable and obvious really. Furthermore groups interact with staff differently (and vice versa ) - especially if the group is full of upbeat, cheerful folk! Terry (Stickman), you usually (always?) cruise with friends. That doesn't make your experiences any less valid than anyone else's but I do feel there is a reason why your experiences are as they are and that your conclusions might be a little different if you experienced your cruises in the way most of the folk around here do. It also makes a big difference if you spend many days a year cruising compared to those only able to have a precious few days at sea a year. Maybe I've done nothing more than set out the obvious. And after all it's always interesting reading about other peoples experiences! And at the end of the day, as said so often, only our own view matters. OOOVM......! Adrian

Which is why two Italian families need to get together over a large bowl of spag bol and agree that family 1 sell 2 arguably unecessary ships to family 2 and agree that family 1 have 1st dibs on the tik tok generation cruise market whilst family 2 have 1st dibs on the market with the ageing tickers........ First family to reach profitability wins a Ferrari.

Now that is quite an aspiration. And it necessitates some pretty high per diems. Deck 7 personnel need to hope that there are some racy introductory fares. Hoping that market saturation will force fares down, Colin, is good to a point - but not to the point where lines start to go under. And we don't want anything resembling that again! And to Whipsnade's point, there is nothing too much wrong with the Explora Journey product and I would not be too quick to write them off. I'm sure it takes a while a carve out a slice of the market - especially if you are also trying to create a new market. Crystal will be having to do something very similar by the sound of it. TWT Adrian

So much more historical context than I could ever muster - and more erudite too, come to that. Thanks for your thoughts, Vince. But it's always fun to speculate and try to put yourself in the shoes of the decision makers. Personally I struggle to get over the fact that A&K pre Crystal was not marketing to the 'ocean view ' market. They were firmly focused on the deep pocketed 'sapphire suite and above' market. What we have seen so far is how adroit they can be with making work their initial purchase. What we will soon be seeing is what they actually aspire to. Having experienced EJ I felt that their amazing hardware (or something like it) would definitely work for Crystal. But there weren't any ocean view rooms.... TWT (Special abbreviation, just for the Crystal board - we could become known as the TWT's - Time Will Tell....) Adrian

Hey, well done - just what I had in mind! Thanks Vince. What it had me thinking is just what is the essence of Crystal? Clearly the occupants of the non veranda rooms have always been a significant proportion of the guest make-up (someone - probably Vince - will know just what proportion!). I don't believe I've ever read anyone comment that Crystal would be so much finer without the peasant class from the ship's bowels (otherwise known as deck 7). Which must mean that amongst us all, we the guests, that mix of people from different backgrounds, different economic situations all appreciate that which Crystal offers and represents and we meld well together (by and large). Strip away that significant layer of Crystal's guests means replacing them with different people. Well now, just pop over to the Explora Journey board and see just what level of discussion / dismay / puzzlement there is about EJ's attempt to find the new clientele essential to their future existence. It's enough to strike fear in the heart of anyone who has loved Crystal! But I'm not a Luddite (sorry if you have to look that up) and recognise life moves on, the future is not all bad, change can be good etc etc. But let's just hope 'they' find a new recipe for the 'special sauce' that is what has made Crystal special and the best. And if they do let's hope no-one gets left behind from experiencing the new ship(s) - if they want to. Adrian

I want to respond further on the general topic / to Vince but it feels like we've managed to take this thread way off course. And as I have been looking forward to travelling along on a journey I wistfully thought about joining it feels inappropriate to continue the hijack. Lots of news from the crossing please - and I'm interested to hear about @out2sea's new material! Adrian

There will be a lot of loyal Crystal-lites who will be going 😬 or 🤦‍♂️ or 🤷‍♂️ as they see themselves potentially priced out. Of course, it is inevitable - you can't be in this sector and still have 'ocean view' rooms on a brand new ship. But it will be a shame if we lose too many true Crystal folks simply because their budget can't stretch. (I like to think of myself as a problem solver but I'm strugging here other than some wild thoughts around the need to cruise as soon as the new casinos get up and running...)

I have nothing more to offer but wot I already wrote!

Ah - sounds like I might be doing a review.....!🙃

I do agree - but I recall at least one toilet where the auto door goes from the very public deck area directly into the toilet cubicle. And the hand-swipe locking mechanism was both not intuitive and the 3 menu options (unlocked, locked, open , if I remember correctly) were so close together you just never knew for sure whether the door was definitely locked - or not.... I distinctly remember being relieved (in a different way) that the low passenger count made it a) less likely someone else would find the door unlocked when I hoped I'd locked it and b) the deck area would not be thronged with folk getting an unwanted viewing should disaster strike. (British trains suffer from the very same problem. Or should I say British train passengers.)

What rotten luck, Tim - hope you're feeling better very soon. But it does give the opportunity to return to the debate around books in the room and whether they are carefully curated EJ books or just past guest leftovers. Tim, do you have any books in your room?! If so, are any in English and worth a read? Adrian

Just a little sheepishly I have to admit we have just booked a Virgin cruise.... (There, I have said it out loud now - no going back.) Last year there was an amazing offer of a 'free' cruise for 2 people for 80k virgin miles. (worth c.£800 depending on your valuation) We sent our son and wife. They had a wonderful time ( our son has cruised Crystal with us) and were amazed at the quality. Furthermore they said we'd enjoy it. Well, this year the offer is repeated and we have a 14 day TA for zero £'s in a central standard balcony room. We have cruised non luxury lines before and adjust our expectations accordingly. This one will be closely followed by our next Serenity cruise - so we might enjoy that even more now as we make up for all the 'luxuries' we will have missed on Virgin! Reviews of Virgin I have read certainly lead me to expect a different experience but I am hoping we'll find a way of extracting those parts of the Virgin product that will provide us with a perfectly satisfactory fun experience. I haven't decided whether to report daily as I did on Explora recently. The ship will certainly not be full and one other certainty thing is that we won't have any misbehaving children to contend with. (Hopefully there won't be too many misbehaving adults....) Adrian

oh - and thanks!