twotravellersLondon

3 hours ago, davecttr said:

Shareholders objected to his $15 million salary.

Institutional shareholders are the key.

It's also the case that Arnold was unwaveringly optimistic about the prospects of the cruise industry while his institutional investors were increasingly more concerned that their shares were worth only $17 against a pre-covid $73 high... 

Arnold Donald being side-lined... is all about extracting as much profit from the company and in so doing raising the share price. That can only be achieved by greater economies and by attracting in the high spending, younger family and group orientated customers who want a resort experience.

Significant changes are inevitable. It's very likely that the new regime will feel that the economies lie in the bigger, newer hight-tec ships and ,unless smaller ships can exploit a lucrative specialist niche market which will yield a much higher profit, it's likely that the older small vessels will soon be history.

Pre-covid, the Golden Pound of the Baby Boomer market was already well on the wane. In the UK cruise market between 2016 and 2018 the average age of cruiser increased from 56 to 57 but the numbers of 70+ passengers fell from 27% to 23%. The real growth sector was in the 30 to 50-year-old group who looked for cruises of two weeks or less to the Mediterranean or Northern Europe. The more mature demographic increasingly dominated the longer Grand Voyage and the exploration market... not P&O's thing really.

So what of the frequent budget cruisers who like to travel as often an as economically as possible... where will the mass-market mega giants of the cruise industry like Carnival and its subsidiaries likely put them? The chances are... to help fill cabins on the larger ships at the less  busy times of the year. 

And if the declining market of "traditional cruisers" (cruise industry definition... not mine) chose not to cruise? The very simple answer is that the cruise-lines would not be carrying so many people at less than cost price. What about the empty cabins? The very simple answer is to reduce capacity by removing older, smaller ships from the fleet... Carnival have recently let 17 ships "go"... more may be earmarked.

Arnold Donald was an industrial titan who personally controlled almost half of the global cruise industry and he still leads the World Travel & Tourism Council. In stepping down from his previous role in Carnival, Arnold will allow institutional investors to make very significant changes which are likely to have major ramification on the global  cruise industry as a whole.

Very much a case of wait and see... with bated breath.

33 minutes ago, Vivaldi said:

Today I saw an advert for a 25 night Greek Islands and Corinth Canal cruise on the Braemar in May 2024. It looked a very interesting trip - but then I noticed the prices. For an interior cabin the price works out at £200 pppn, and for a balcony cabin it's £520 pppn. Seriously?

We did the first Corinth Canal Cruise in October 2019. If we were to take exactly the same cabin on the cruise that you were looking at for 2024... it would cost us far more than twice what we paid in 2019. Seriously!

In our view... Fred's priced himself out of the market. He just can't realistically compete with the brand new all-inclusive luxury boutique ships... even for those passengers who might normally take an ocean view cabin with Fred and have an upgrade.

Fred's had already lost about 25% of his passengers in the ten years before covid. His published accounts since cruising resumed don't show a rosy picture.

Next week Fred's going to be paying some of his past "Loyal" passengers £70 an hour for an online interview to give him some ideal of why they've deserted him in their droves.

It should be obvious! We can't justify paying more to sail on one of Fred's old antiquated ships seeing the same show again and again and again, watching the prices rise, the quality of the food decline and being assailed by extra charges for a freedom fare. WiFi, Drinks, gratuities and so on... when we can travel in style in bright modern friendly small ships with great food, superb entertainment  and virtually everything included... and for far less that we would have to pay with Fred.

In May 2018 Fred Jun is reported as saying to a journalist,  “When the ticket price goes up, we’re not trying to send any guests away. “A lot of them are sailing three or four times with us a year, so it might just mean they cut down on the number of cruises or they go from a balcony cabin to an outside.” Perhaps that was Fred's "Gerald Ratner" moment.

2 hours ago, Holcha said:

Please accept my most heartfelt apologies for overstepping the mark with regards to comments.  Have no fear, I shall not comment nor post on this thread again.

Must be some misunderstanding.  That would be a great loss. Your comments were some of the most valuable and were spot on the topic every time... We certainly greatly appreciated them and had been looking forward to further updates.

17 hours ago, twotravellersLondon said:

I started this thread not to debate whether Saga's protocols are right or wrong - that is a matter of opinion, and opinions vary. I started it to establish fact, to record what is actually happening onboard the ships. Could we please keep on topic!

On every cruise line carrying tens of thousands of passengers a year there will always be one or two people, for whatever reason, who will be dissatisfied, disappointed and disenchanted, and will have their own particular opinion of the company that they're keen to share.

The fundamental point is that, like the vast majority of cruisers reading reviews and boards, we're sensible, intelligent people who have learnt not rely upon the information or opinions we read. Even CC recommends that we should use what we read here as starting points for doing independent research and then judge for ourselves the merits of the material that has been shared on the forum.

So we've considered our personal experience over the years, looked at the 40 or so CC reviews of SAGA cruises (a tiddlingly small number considering the number who have recently cruised with SAGA) and lots of other things including  SAGA's 91% Consumer Satisfaction Rate and the fact that SAGA has one of the highest ratings on comparable cruise review sites. The idea of "communication" was recently aired on these boards, attracted very little attention, was mainly focused on past events and very few members contributed to the discussion with current experiences.  

Like Denarius we're far more interested in the first-hand experience of people currently on board the Spirit of Discovery and the Spirit of Adventure so that we can see for ourselves what protocols are in place at various times and when and how they change. We're not going to chop and change, cancel or rebook on the basis of one or two comments because we take CC's advice "not rely solely on information or opinions we read" seriously... and... we know that things may well change before we board. But... a wide selection of real facts and possibly photos from people currently on board will give us a far better means of preparing ourselves for a couple of forthcoming longish cruises. 

Denarius started this thread to establish facts about what is actually happening onboard the ships. There is always some drift but It would only be fair to our author and in line with CC's guidelines as Denarius has already asked "Could we please keep on topic!"

56 minutes ago, Denarius said:

I started this thread not to debate whether Saga's protocols are right or wrong - that is a matter of opinion, and opinions vary. I started it to establish fact, to record what is actually happening onboard the ships. Could we please keep on topic!

5 hours ago, Denarius said:

I am surprised (or on balance perhaps I am not) to read that Saga say there are no books in the library whilst a passenger currently on SofA says that there are (post #3 ) Either the passenger concerned has imagined it (unlikely), the books have been removed again (with Saga U turns are par for the course at present) , or Saga head office do not know what is going on on their own ships!

To even suggest that the Head Office of a heavily regulated industry such as a cruise line don't know what's happening on their own ships is very much a matter of opinion rather than fact.

8 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

The confusing answers, where it seems the one thing that cannot be said is "we don't yet know" makes a customer feel (a) management is poor, or (b) that management thinks their customers are idiots who are not capable of understanding. And this is what stops people "trusting" a company (this is such an overworked word, and quite meaningless most of the time).

 

Yet SAGA bookings are up by 46%, capacity is 68% well over 22,000 people have recently cruised with SAGA and SAGA has recently won the Wave Awards Grand Prix...

We have had considerable contact with SAGA in the last few months and weeks and, from our current personal experience, we have had no problems.

Result we're just about to book a 2023 river cruise with SAGA.

13 minutes ago, Denarius said:

I am surprised (or on balance perhaps I am not) to read that Saga say there are no books in the library whilst a passenger currently on SofA says that there are (post #3 ) Either the passenger concerned has imagined it (unlikely), the books have been removed again (with Saga U turns are par for the course at present) , or Saga head office do not know what is going on on their own ships!

Very sadly cruise companies are dammed when they do and dammed if they don't put procedures and protocols in place in light of current circumstances in a timely manner. Our policy is that if we don't trust a company or have no confidence in a company, we won't cruise with them.

We cancelled a cruise with another company and transferred to SAGA for that very reason. It just seemed silly to go on a cruise with a company that we had misgivings about... especially since previous experience on the Saga Pearl, the Saga Sapphire and the Sprit of Adventure had given us every confidence that we could trust SAGA more that other lines we had travelled with.

And anyway... we cruise to relax, enjoy the excitement of travelling and the exhilaration of visiting new places. On the advice of Bob Marley, once booked, we aim to not "worry about a thing!"

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

Actually, on the newer ships, cruise lines will break even at around 30% capacity, and at 70%, which seems to be the norm at present,  they will certainly be making some profit, but obviously far less than they woukd ideally want !

That may be true for the really big ships but Carnival filled accounts up to 20 November 2021. For the fleet as a whole, they had a 56% occupancy figure, a revenue of $1,908 million but made a loss of $7,089 million.

SAGA filed a report for the 12 months to January 2022. They had a 68% occupancy level, a revenue of £82.5 million but made a loss of £47.7 million.

2 hours ago, Denarius said:

Covid protocols are an issue which divides opinion. Whilst some will not cruise if thay believe them to be too lax, equally others will not cruise if they believe them to be too detrimental to their enjoyment of the cruise experience. You cannot please all the people all the time. My purpose in starting this thread was not to express opinion but to establish fact. To ascertain which restrictions were still in force on Saga ships so that people of all opinions could make an informed judgement as to whether to book or continue with a cruise.

We agree that SAGA certainly can't please all of the people all of the time! 

However SAGA,  attracts a more mature and possibly more travelled and experienced clientele than many other lines and so their protocols need to be specifically tailored to their passengers and the differing rules applied by different port authorities for ships with SAGA's demographics.  

We believe that SAGA have the expertise and insight to formulate the protocols that will work best for their passengers and so, regardless of our own personal opinions, we are willing to accept the entire package, without quibble, and have the best possible time than we can on board. 

Making an informed judgement is very difficult in a rapidly changing world. It will be thirteen months since booking before we set sail on our next SAGA cruise. We knew that world was likely to be very different, we chose an itinerary with lots of scenic cruising, every chance of whale watching and bird spotting... and where we would be content... if the worst came to the worst... to look out from our balcony. 

Most of all, we chose to cruise with SAGA rather that the three other cruise lines doing very similar cruises at the same time because we trust SAGA to look after us better that the other lines. 

We were interested in the topic but... we sail in couple of months, we've paid the balance to SAGA and what protocols are in effect now are likely to change in the next few weeks and months. Our attitude is to go and enjoy the cruise that we've been looking forward to for almost two years and to accommodate what protocols are in place when we board. 

However SAGA, as with all cruise lines, have a very difficult tightrope to negotiate. Like many other's we trust SAGA and so book with them. We've even moved one cruise to SAGA from one of their close competitors rather that be unhappy with that other cruise line. That is probably why SAGA's cruise booking are 46% ahead of where they were two years ago.

Our basic policy... book with the lines that we can trust. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst and be grateful for small mercies.

1 hour ago, nosapphire said:

Just what the cruise industry needs right now... wait for the "floating petri dish" comments.

 

It is always sad when this happens - but I cannot recall a cruise throughout the years (various lines)where there has never been a medical evacuation, some coming off in a wheelchair to go in the ambulance, some emergency evacuation by helicoptor (Norwegian navy is good at that) and some with medical personnel coming on board to attend a passenger before they were stretchered off with the waiting ambulance leaving with all lights and sirens on.

Some were caused by falls, some by illness/heart attacks/strokes, and probably some by infections picked up during the cruise

Covid is serious, it will always be serious, but let us not forget all the other virus's that are endemic and may badly affect anyone who is not in full health - whether on or off a ship.

 

You really have got "floating petri dish" comments right.

The glib "floating petri dish" comments were what we arrived home to in February 2020. from a cruise in far east while the Dimond Princess situation was unravelling in Japan. Suffice to say that once the ship that we were on arrived back in the UK, it never cruised again and, like so many others, has been sold for scrap. While we have cruises booked... some friends think that we're taking a risk and others are convinced that we're just foolhardy.

In reality UK cruiser numbers are still well down, surveys on this site and by CLIA indicate that 17%-25% of cruisers still aren't willing to commit to booking a cruise for the foreseeable future and currently cruise lines aren't breaking even... let alone making profits. In short there needs to be a much greater confidence that going on a cruise is a reasonable, rational risk like so many other things that we do as a matter of course... to encourage more people to cruise, to support our cruise industry and to allow us all to continue cruising at affordable prices.

As you write Covid is serious and it will always be serious. Even the triple jabbed can succumb and those who have had Covid can be reinfected.

We live with Norovirus. Cruise lines don't ignore it, they have isolation, deep-cleaning protocols and all manner of operational changes ready to be put into place if there is an outbreak... and most of us rile about these because we can't do things like helping ourselves at the buffet and suchlike.

Dedicated, passionate cruisers who sail several times a year, may not need to be persuaded that cruising is "safe" and many will have their own well considered opinions.

However, the current stats show that many prospective cruisers do have reservations. We really do fear that unless cruise lines retain protocols that will allow many prospective cruisers to have the confidence to book... cruiser numbers will be depressed, prices will increase and some lines will be forced to reassess their business plans for the future. 

And... what the UK cruise industry needs right now is more bookings. Otherwise we may all lose out in the future.
 

45 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

That's very sad, was this on a Saga Vessel ?

The reports mention Fred Olsen but it could just as well been any line.

Very sad news. 

5 hours ago, Denarius said:

Thanks everyone for your contributions.

With covid protocols in a state of flux, and Saga head office apparently being unaware of what is going on on their own ships (see posts #2 and #3 above re. library books!) I thought that it would be useful to have a dedicated thread on which people actually on Saga ships could let us all know what the situation was onboard. So keep the updates coming!

A passenger suffering from Covid and in isolation for several days... was transferred ashore at Salerno, Italy on Wednesday 20 April and passed away there on Friday 22 April. Th ship is currently on route back to Southampton.
 
I'm sure that everyone will have immense sympathy for the family and for everyone else affected by this sad event.
 
A lesson to us all, if any was needed, to be careful, cautious and considerate towards our fellow passengers at all times.

Several UK press sources are reporting that a passenger suffering from Covid and in isolation for several days onboard Fred Olsen's Bolette... on a cruise to the Amalfi coast... was transferred ashore at Salerno, Italy on Wednesday 20 April and passed away there on Friday 22 April. The Bolette is currently on route back to Southampton.

I'm sure that everyone will have every sympathy for the family and for everyone else affected by this immensely sad event.

Perhaps a lesson to us all, if any was needed, to be careful, cautious and considerate towards our fellow passengers at all times.
 

On 4/10/2022 at 5:48 PM, LandC said:

know what you mean!  We have booked a Junior Suite on Bolette as we like a private balcony.  It’s actually just a balcony cabin, but Fred thinks he can charge more by describing it as a suite, and including the Suite Dreams package, which we would be quite happy to do without.

Do very much know the feeling!

Some of the rather small and basic balcony cabins on the Balmoral are now sold as balcony suites... same cabin but add one pretty useless atlas, a second-hand brolly, a pair of budget bins, some very, very hard apples and... Fred seems to believe that the entire tiny cabin will be transformed in to a magical "junior suite"... Is this the "Olsen Way?"

We always imagined that a suite was a set of rooms... but who are we to question the logic of a company that describes 20-year-old ships saved from the scrap-yards as "new" or who sells terrace cabins as balcony cabins despite the fact that they have no balcony.

We now calculate Fred's cruise prices on a like for like basis against other cruise lines. We take Fred's basic price for the cabin that we would like, add the extra for a freedom fare, add all of the extras that Fred charges as add-ons and other cruise lines have as part of an all-inclusive package and then work out the cost per day. Fred is losing out every time.

Thirty cruises with Fred... first in the 1990s... three in the year prior to covid... currently Fred is not winning us over, earning our trust and confidence or making us feel as if we want to buy a cruise from him.
We so much hope that will change.... because, our feeling is that he's just pricing himself out of the market. In the ten years before covid Fred went from 1.3 million hoppnob (heads on pillows per night on board) to only 1 million. That say's it all!
 

8 hours ago, wowzz said:

We are booked on SoD's Baltic cruise this September,  and will be going despite SPB not being on the itinerary. We booked more or less at launch,  and got the 35% discount on our fare.

Out of interest,  I looked at the cruise today,  and there are 158 standard balcony cabins available,  equating to 300 pax or so,  or 30% of the capacity of the ship !  And yet,  the discount on the full fare is only 5%. 

I appreciate that Saga need to keep a number of cabins empty for quarantine purposes,  but it seems as if the pricing is being deliberately set high so as to dissuade people from booking. 

Surely Saga should be dropping prices so as to get occupancy rates up to 75% or so?

 SAGA have reported that they have recently been running at a 68% capacity. (far more than some other comparable lines) Traditionally SAGA's prices increase towards the sail date rather than decrease.

10 minutes ago, davecttr said:

A cheese wheel is a wheel or block of cured cheese that is typically still covered in a protective rind. Most cheeses are made in the shape of wheels, with cheese shops cutting out wedges when clients request a particular cheese. Some cheese producers also make smaller personal wheels that are designed to be sold whole, rather than chopped up."

 So is someone who sells these things a wheeler-dealer? Yess... there just had to be a cheesy joke there somewhere.

We very much sympathise and emphasise with anyone feeling disappointment and frustrated with what was once their "cruise-line of choice". Sadly, we have similar feelings about one of SAGA's close competitors that we've travelled with a great many times over years. 

In the year or so immediately before the cruise-industry pause due to the global-pandemic, our personal experience included cruises with SAGA on the Pearl II, the Sapphire and the Spirit of Discovery as well as two-week and four-week cruises on another line and two weeks on third cruise line. Our most recent personal experience of SAGA has been in booking and subsequently making minor changes in our requirements due to personal circumstances of a number of cruises, amounting to sixteen weeks over the next year. Personally... we've not experienced any "communication" issues with SAGA and we have been very happy with their customer services. 

Before we decided on SAGA as our current "cruise-line-of-choice" we spent ages researching the present-day state of SAGA, the companies that we'd travelled with recently and any other alternatives. 

We've kept an closer eye on CC boards and we appreciate all those who have taken the time and trouble of posting their differing views and feelings... but we followed Cruise Critic's advice  that... "The fundamental concept is that you should NOT totally rely upon the information or opinions you read. Rather, you should use what you read here as starting points for doing independent research on cruise lines... Then judge for yourself the merits of the material that has been shared in our forum."

So we've looked in detail at Company Accounts, Director's Strategic Reports, the Trade Press and numerous review sites. We've talked with real-life friends that we trust and we've done a side-by-side comparison of current pricing and a very detailed comparative examination of proposed itineraries. Incidentally, we were also quite impressed to learn that SAGA was recently awarded the Which Recommended Ocean Cruise Provider and that the cruise-line recently won three WAVE awards including the highly prestigious Grand Prix. 

We were very feeling disappointment and frustrated about one of SAGA's close competitors... and yes communication with HQ and an out-of-date website was and continues to be an issue with that company... but we're not interested in taking the time and trouble to rake over the ashes or to worry about how we think that particular company has failed us. We're not going to tell them how they should run their business or to worry about how they might behave in the future... or regret missing out on an exceptionally high level of loyalty benefits. It's time for us to move on... we would much prefer to follow the advice of Noël Coward... "Grab every bit of happiness while you can!"

Saga is not perfect... we know of no cruise-line that is... but as far as we're concerned SAGA is a better choice for us at the moment as our main cruise-line.

16 hours ago, Kohima said:

Questionnaires don’t ask about the quality of communication so it’s hardly surprising that it doesn’t receive the poor rating it deserves. However what we heard about their problems from many other passengers on our recent cruise echoes what we are seeing online and our own experience. It is not ‘fake news’

Questionnaires may not ask about the many things including the quality of communication but there are other far more salient indicators of overall customer satisfaction.

People putting their hard-earned cash down is one of them. We are booked on a SAGA cruise this summer... it has been booked up for months despite the fact that three other lines are offer a similar itinerary at the same time and all of these can offer budget cabins. We also booked a SAGA cruise for early next year as soon as it became available and it is already well past the break-even point despite another cruise-line offering a similar cruise at about the same price... and with budget cabins cheaper. £ Millions in booking probably says far more about customer satisfaction than posts by a tiny number of clients.

There are always going to be detractors about any business on forums and "social-media" but Interestingly on one major review site, thousands of reviewers each month... considerable more than are contributing to this board... are consistently giving SAGA by far the best ratings in the industry. "Communication" doesn’t seem to be a problem in the minds of those folks.

Different individuals who post comments may have very different ideas. A recent conversation on one of the other CC boards... had one cruiser regularly post reports...  often based on speculation gleaned from one "social-media" site... and another cruiser on the same ship commenting that he was enjoying his cruise and had read these posts in utter disbelief... and could not believe that he was on the same cruise. Different people can see the same situation very differently.

Information on any cruise-line can be a double-edged sword. On one ship (not Saga) high above the arctic circle, our Captain spent a missed port day giving us the most sensational cruise through "Ice-berg Alley". At the end, he commented that he had used an additional 50 tonnes of fuel. That evening the rumour mill was in full swing... according to one or two people... "we were running out of fuel, there was no-where to get any more, we would never reach our next port, we would be stranded. we would have no heating or lighting, there would be no water and we would be at the mercy of marauding ice-bergs!" It would have been terribly funny had it not created immense stress and anxiety among some of the passengers. A simple case of totally unnecessary angst created by thoughtless,  gossip, unsubstantiated rumour and ill-informed speculation. 

On another cruise ship in the days that Norovirus was the problem, the Captain gave full details as part of his evening report. These details included if there had been any suspected cases, isolation, how the buffet would operate, the deep-cleaning schedule for that night and so on.  By the end of the first week it became almost impossible to hear the announcement because so many people showed their displeasure at receiving the information that they spoke over it. At the end of the second week some people were shouting over it. So sometimes... Captains are in a no-win situation.... dammed if they do and dammed if they don't

We want to enjoy our cruises. We want to watch out for dolphins, birds and whales, catch a glimpse of land, thrill at the opportunity of "closer-cruising", have interesting and exhilarating excursions, enjoy the food, entertainment and we want to feel that the whole experience is rather special. 

At home, we don't go to the cinema to see an Oscar winning film, the theatre to see a blockbuster musical or to dinner an award-winning restaurant so that we act the critic or expect the manager to to listen to our opinion as "feedback"... we go to enjoy the experience. We regard cruising in much the same way.

We like travelling on SAGA because, on the whole, the people we meet are sensible, well informed, convivial, companions with a mature wisdom and a respect for others who will engage in agreeably positive and pleasant conversation.

4 hours ago, Kohima said:

Surely the point of communication is that it is two way. Constructive criticism should be welcomed and where possible acted upon. If issues are not addressed they continue to happen, service deteriorates and customers continue to complain, further clogging up the phone lines

We certainly fully agree in principle with the comment about constructive criticism. 

At various times in the past 30 years, we have written in detail to a cruise line... almost as critical friends....  to make our feelings about particular aspects of a cruise clear. On these occasions we've almost invariable had constructive responses. On one occasion when we had issues with the food we were asked to contribute our suggestions over two-hour long interviews, our letter was sent to all Executive Chefs, Hotel Managers and Maître d'hôtel in the fleet. A fleet wide review was conducted. We were generously thanked for our time and trouble, and we understood that all of those others who had independently voiced their opinion to HQ were also compensated in different ways

.

However its very difficult for individual passengers to judge the overall ability of a company "to deal with the unexpected, to communicate clearly with passengers and to manage their expectations" because those expectations vary wildly and we're not privy to even a representative sample of the total feedback that the company will have received in various forms. On these boards, it's unusual to have more than 2 or 3 cabins per thousand comment on a cruise and the number of reviews are often less than that. Where a company uses one of the commercial review sites which aim to translate customer feedback into actionable insights... the feedback is typically far less than 5%. 

On one industry standard review site SAGA has 92% of respondents rating the company as "Excellent" compared to the closest competitors operating out of the UK ... they are rated between 10% and 44%. So should we trust those figures based on thousands of responses and believe that SAGA, as a whole, is doing a far better job than the rest of the industry... or should we believe the disparate comments on different forums and social media?

We also fully agree that the majority of cruisers are largely reasonable people with a choice of where to spend their hard-earned cash but as indicated there are "exceptions (!)" and it's very much the case that some of these, in the words of the CC Guidelines,  may be "prone to post messages on the boards that could be misleading, deceptive, or downright wrong." There are recent examples on some social "mediah" sites where unsupported rumour has flourished and caused a great distress to cruise passengers their friends and their relatives.

These days when so many people have different opinions... often hold them with such passion... and pursue them with so much energy and vigour... it's impossible to keep everyone happy all of the time.

We liken a choice of cruise-line to a choice of restaurant... we don't argue with the proprietor about the service, the food, the atmosphere or the price... but if we don't like it... we'll give it a miss and go somewhere that suits us better. It does make life so much pleasanter... and allows to enjoy cruising.

That.... as far as we're concerned... is the point of cruising.

2 hours ago, nosapphire said:

As another Britannia Gold (had hoped to be Sapphire by now), I totally agree with Kohima.  Saga head office seem to be extremely disjointed; it may be my imagination, but it seems to have got worse since Euan Sutherland joined as group CEO.

The problem is not the staff that customers can speak to - as twotravellerslondon has commented, they still try as hard as ever to help, and are as friendly and pleasant to speak to as always.

But - they are only allowed to say what the senior management says.

I can still recall being told that there were "no changes" to the timing or schedule of the first SoA inaugural cruise; the telephone operator and I both knew perfectly well that the ship would not even complete the build in time to sail - but she had to forlornly keep telling me that it was "not changed". 

It was still on sale, too - right up until it was postponed because it was still in the shipyard.

I had hoped that with the original owner of Saga (Roger de Haan) returning to the board, (along with a large cash injection), the communication flow from head office to their staff, their ships, and their customers would improve - but it still seems to be an attitude of , "why do they need to know that?"

 

Like "NoSapphire", We were also booked on the inaugural cruise to St Petersburg and the Baltic aboard the Spirit of Adventure in 2020. We had registered in advance in November 2018 band we were some of the first passengers book. The ship was due to sail on the 10th of August  2020. SAGA contacted us on the 26th of June and again on 10th  of July 2020, eight and six weeks before the sail date and let us know what was happening. We opted for a refund and we received it within days. From our own experience; SAGA's communication and customer services at that time was quite excellent and even more so in the face of the global pandemic. 

We had np experience of being told that there would be "no changes to the timing or schedule of the first SoA inaugural cruise"... very probably because we didn't contact SAGA to ask for information. However June/July 2020 is a long time ago now and a lot of water has passed under the bridges of both the SAGA Spirit of Discovery and the SAGA Spirit of Adventure Spirit since then.... and the world has changed in ways we certainly never dreamt of.

The key fact is that, even before covid, in the majority of cases the fare did not cover the cost of the cruise and was only the onboard sales that pushed the business over the break-even line. Now... most cruise-lines and most ships are sailing at a loss. Some are losing £hundreds for every passenger that they carry, at least one has been losing £hundreds per passenger per day. (Figures can be easily found in Companies House!) 

Before covid, different companies were already adopting different strategic directions in order to make ends meet in the face of commercial challenges, the introduction of new environmental legislation and other factors. 

These changes were always going to alienate some cruisers. For instance: SAGA's move to balcony only, all-inclusive ships really upset some of our friends who have never forgiven he company because they feel that after being loyal customers that they have now been priced out of the market. On another cruise line, cutbacks on the quality of food, entertainment and staffing and that had a similar effect of upsetting and alienating friends who had been cruising with the company for years. One cruise-line that we've often travelled with have very seriously increased their prices... the cabin that we had in late 2019 is now almost twice the price for the same cruise... as a result we've been priced out. 

We're a little sad about that.... but life is just too short and too precious to waste on regrets and angst... we've just "compared the market" found what suits us best and we've moved on. We're not going to waste our time and energy cruise-line bashing.... in our opinion, it's pointless.

Like everyone else... we want to feel like a valued customers of a profitable company surviving into the future to give us all the experiences we know and love... having compared the field... we find that SAGA's is our best option. So now we're doing what most cruisers want to do... excitedly looking forward  to our next cruise, checking our wardrobes, researching the ports and hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst and, at the end of the day, we'll be grateful for small mercies.

On the basis of our recent experience, we've made our choice and paid our money to SAGA... which has now become our cruise-line of choice.
 

2 hours ago, Kohima said:

However Saga now seems to have lost its ability to deal with the unexpected, to communicate clearly with passengers and to manage their expectations.

Quite astonishing! Our experience over the last few weeks has been totally the opposite..

We're in the process of finalising some arrangements for a cruise coming up soon, have booked future cruises amounting to 10/11 weeks for 2023 and we're also in the process of settling on a river cruise as well. Add to that the fact that we've had to do a bit of complex juggling with our SAGA travel insurance... and it's obvious that we have a considerable amount of recent personal experience.

So we've had numerous phone calls with SAGA representatives. The phone has been answered relatively promptly, in all cases the agents have been pleasant, helpful and immensely professional. (Better that some other lines that we've also dealt with over the same period where it's taken over a week to get a simple answer to a straight-forward question)

In these days the communications for virtually every cruise-line is different to what it was, they don't have the same level of staffing, many agents are still working from home, covid is still taking its toll and the sheer number of enquiries has immensely increased. 

After such a long pause, the very challenging and stressful time that most of us have gone through over that last couple of years its not surprising that our hopes are that things will be as they were in 2019 and that we hope to enjoy our perfect dream cruise. We are very happy that so many cruise-lines and ships have survived, that we find that cruise prices are still affordable and we're still able to cruise. It's a fact that many cruise-lines are currently carrying passengers at far less than cost price... sometime at hundreds of £s a day less than the cost of the cruise. 

We're pragmatic... we cruise to relax, to enjoy life on board and to be exhilarated by the places that we visit. We've done our own independent research... as well as looked at what folks have posted on various sites.  As a result... we're currently giving a couple of cruise-lines a miss for a few months. We're not saying which lines those are or giving our reasoning because in these times we don't want to spread sadness, negativity and angst that might just impact on cruise-personnel’s prospects, income and careers. 

We have travelled on three different SAGA ships in the past, we have followed the situation closely as cruising has resumed after the pause and we're read hundreds of postings.  

As a result we've come to a totally different view, we have been more impressed with SAGA than the lines that we have compared it with, are satisfied that it offers us the type of cruise that we want at a price we consider to be value-for-money and we have chosen to invest our time, money and expectation in the company.

Our feeling is that life's too short for angst... it's time to move on... and to enjoy what wonders that the world has to offer while we can. 

30 minutes ago, smj777 said:

We're on Britannia in 3 weeks and we love the glass house food. P&O can't still be quoting Covid as an excuse for reduced/poor service (ie wine servive in MDR)  We are paying for a choice of restaurants and other services and should get a refund if they aren't provided.

According to  Carnival's latest accounts  it would very much look like that in the year up to the 30 November 2021 they made a loss of $9.5 Billion and, by the looks of things, it would seem that... on average, Carnival lost over £600 for every single passenger who sailed.

In real terms every single couple cruising are already getting, on average, £1,200.00 more than they have spent. 

How the world has changed. We think that we're very lucky to still have cruises.

23 hours ago, ighten said:

I just had an email offering some of the cheapest balcony (terrace) prices

Q. When is a "balcony cabin" not a "balcony cabin?" A. When it's sold the "Olsen way!"

We've done dozens of cruises with Fred but I just can't get my head around any cruise line that sells a "balcony cabin" that has no balcony. At best... this is likely to be misleading and that's no way to build consumer confidence and trust. We don't want to go on any cruise having to questions the semantics of the offer... we want to have a relaxing holiday. What next? Fish and chips without the chips? Gin and tonic without the gin?

1 hour ago, LandC said:

We would welcome better wines by the glass - there were only a couple we liked when on board inJanuary!

 Janet posted a wine list as #2 Saga wine list , non house wine (premium paid for) 

1 hour ago, lincslady said:

wotravellersLondon - I am a big fan of Saga, (gold member) though I have not yet travelled on the new ships, and would love to.  However, I fear that when some of these people who have been disembarked in Spain get home, and discover that the same sort of rigour was not being applied by other lines, there could be repercussions even in the press, if they decide to make something of it.   And I personally think they would be entitled to.  There are almost certainly passengers on  other lines, who do not have to be tested,  going ashore in ports when they would be testing positive, even though feeling well.  As this also probably  applies also to any locals they may come across, I do feel that Saga have gone above and beyond to the detriment of their passengers and crew.  It seems at present as if we are expected to start thinking of Covid as like flu, and need to continue getting back to 'normal' in our daily lives.

I fully agree with you that they may be all manner of repercussions as a result on how individual cruise companies have handled the global-pandemic. In the U.S. of A. there are innumerable law suits ranging from class-actions to individual claims against cruise companies on the basis of what they did or what they did not do at any given time.

However, I think that the board of SAGA PLC most probably has far more insight, knowledge and expertise than the vast majority of keen cruisers do in foreseeing and dealing with potential repercussions. In SAGA's latest corporate report... published just a couple of weeks ago, the Company had a resilient performance in a challenging world and the cruise sector had generated positive earnings, ships had sailed on average at 68% capacity (one of the best performances in the industry), bookings for 2022-2023 were strong with ships estimated to be sailing at 73% capacity at an increased average income of £319 per diem. Customer satisfaction levels were 9.1 out of 10... exceptional in the industry. The report is 68 pages long, easy to find on the web and gives an insight into the immensely complex corporate world of the modern cruise industry.

We have always travelled the world hoping for the best, preparing for the worst and being grateful for small mercies... and we will continue to do so. In these uncertain times, we're happier to cruise with SAGA than many other companies. We've done our research,  looked at the facts and respectfully listened to all manner of views that people have been kind enough to offer (everyone seems to have a different opinion!)... but now "we've made our choice and paid our money"... and we look forward to whatever joys and excitement that the world can bring.