SLSD

Is this what you are talking about? We've always called it a Mexican Wedding Shirt: https://www.cubavera.com/products/camp-collar-embroidered-guayabera-white-cuws8060ds-115?variant=29783244734509&&rmatt=tsid:|cid:17305469486|agid:|tid:|crid:|nw:x|rnd:14927762466533408105|dvc:c|adp:|mt:|loc:1026855&gclid=CjwKCAjwkYGVBhArEiwA4sZLuCUhrMuPhLlOMI7etcJvlTNmb36lNYJX7WBfi9_UuNNV4NQnAPpP-hoCeqQQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds We are Texans, from a very warm climate. We have seen these worn in very casual settings--usually worn by older men. I want to make it clear that I don't see this topic as a reason to attack each other or get into a snit. It's just a difference of opinion that can be discussed. I have never seen these shirts worn to a formal event. If they are indeed worn, the event is not formal.

I guess I qualify as a pontificator. Mr. SLSD just came out on our front porch where I am sitting. I told him about this thread and that there are quite a few who think a Tommy Bahama shirt is appropriate for the MDR on Seabourn. His comment, "You have to be kidding me!" So--there is definitely a difference of opinion. It's not a snobby thing, it's a cultural thing--and that is not an insult . LMBO1, I do understand that you may have found things to be different on a warm weather cruise post pandemic. I say--those who want to dress down will find a reason to do it. Just an observation.

I don't think they are being snobs. It's just an appropriate dress issue. And you are right--we have not been on a cruise post-pandemic. We are anxious to cruise again, but unfortunately, half the people we know right now have the Covid virus and some are quite ill (vaccinated and boosted). So--we are holding back for now. I guess what you are saying is that people are dressing down more post pandemic. That may well be true, but doesn't mean that everyone is happy about that.

I wouldn't see the comments as an insult. I don't think Mr. L. is necessarily referring to class, income, or education. He is referring to your culture--what is commonly done in your locale and in your social circle. That can certainly differ from place to place. For example, Southern California is very casual in terms of dress. I read a fashion blog and the author wears jeans everywhere--even when dressing up. I live in Dallas. I might wear jeans to the grocery store, but not out to dinner--ever, unless to the most casual place.

We always do get a quote and have purchased business class through SB. But, if airfare is already included in the fare, the situation will be different.

Honestly? When I have seen a man dressed in a Tommy Bahama type shirt in the MDR I have always thought that he does not know any better. Harsh, I know--but that has been my thought. Looking back at the male model pictured in the white and black shirt--he looks just ok--and he is model. I am not a stuffy person and live half of my time on a rural farm in Texas wearing extremely casual clothing. But, we do know how to dress for the venues and occasions that present themselves. I have read so many comments from those who say, "Look, I'm on vacation--I don't want to dress up." I totally understand that. At the same time, there are people CHOOSING Seabourn because people DO dress up and they like that. I'm just stating a fact here. I don't know the answer, but I see a trend toward dressing down on Seabourn. Some of those who prefer to dress only casually have disdain for those who like to dress up and vice versa. There are those who say, "how does how I dress affect YOU?" Well, it does--because the ambience of a place (like the MDR) changes when men are wearing casual shirts meant for outdoor picnics and beach dinners. It is an interesting situation that I have not seen in very many places. This seems to be more apparent in how men dress.

The issue we have with air "thrown in" (and of course included in the fare) is that it will most certainly include multiple stops and will not be Business Class

Yes, I have seen the Tommy Bahama look on Seabourn cruises, but I don't think it is the average dress for men on "normal" (not formal) nights. More common is a dress shirt and pants. Perhaps things are moving toward the Tommy Bahama look, but I hope not. I don't think it is the best look on most men--but perhaps I am in a minority here with this thought? I would be interested in knowing.

I think mode of dress is a cultural thing--tied to locale, custom, and group. In other words, what you deem appropriate to wear depends on your locale, what you are used to, and the people you associate with. Quite simply it differs from place to place. No wonder there is seldom agreement on whether or not a jacket is necessary most appropriate in the MDR on Seabourn. Of course there is also the culture of the ship. But, even that is perceived differently by many. According to the written suggested dress code, there is not a need to wear a jacket except on formal nights in the MDR. In real practice, quite a few men wear a jacket every night in the MDR--just because doing so seems to suit the ambience of the restaurant.

Wear a blazer on your flight and you will be all set for any eventuality. And a tie is easy to pack. I would just hate to see someone miss out dining anywhere at any time. Just a suggestion. I see a jacket as such a staple in a man's wardrobe. I truly do not understand the aversion to taking/wearing one. We've done Alaska on SB and yes, took the layers, gloves, hats--and packed light. My husband took two jackets, two dress shirts, dress pants and ties. It all fit into his bag! I'm not even suggesting a tux--just a navy blazer and or/conservative sport coat. There is laundry service available! You might enjoy this article: https://emilypost.com/advice/attire-guide-dress-codes-from-casual-to-white-tie

It's the course by course and formality that we enjoy. We seldom dine at the Colonnade in the evening as it tends to be a bit noisy at times. I always know that I can choose the great tomato/basil soup in the MDR and very good salmon.

Wow! That is incredible. I know that sometime the staff resorts to shopping in local grocery stores for specific items. Perhaps grapefruit is not one of them. I find the logistics of provisioning a ship to be fascinating. One of the staff members explained to me that most everything comes to the ship from specific companies who contract to provision the ship. I'm sure these have been difficult times for provisions and perhaps a cash shortage is part of that too. Not a good sign.

I had wondered about the food provisions in light of supply chain issues. I think it is quite possible that the quality of the food provisions has been compromised for reasons beyond the control of SB.

Thank you for this well balanced report. I have to say that I agree with you on all counts--and have not sailed post pandemic yet. We have always been somewhat disappointed in the cocktails available--and in the cocktail service as well. I have rarely been bowled over by a meal in the MDR. The TK Grill has not really impressed us either. Fortunately, we are not food centric in our cruising. At the same time, we have loved our Seabourn experiences and plan to sail with them again--if the line holds together.

Thank you for your comments. I find them to be reasonable in that you see several different ways this could go and have your own concerns if the Fund intends to manage SB long term. I'm with you on wishing Seabourn as a brand well. We love sailing on Seabourn and care what happens to its many wonderful employees.

Yes, I had all kinds of connectivity issues with the internet while on that particular cruise--but could always post on CC once I had connectivity again. So--I am a bit dubious that the issue was benign. By the way, I had said only positive things about SB in my real time posts. I had complained a bit about the weather, the time changes, and not particularly enjoying so many sea days (which was what we were trying out), but only laudatory comments about SB.

I have a lot of respect for your opinions Markham. I have met you and know that you are an erudite person. I even have an inkling that we may share at least some political views--so I am listening. You say that the Fund is just an investment vehicle. I understand that, but am concerned about what I have read as it seems to imply that the Fund would be buying the brand. I know that you are not indifferent to human rights--so I am just asking how you think about a major investment in a brand we all know and love and the human rights brutalities of the owners of the Fund. I'm still working through these thoughts myself.

And, as I said above, I posted in real time on CC for almost an entire cruise---and then access to CC was blocked after my husband mentioned my postings to a substitute CD. Coincidence? Very odd at any rate. A specific message came on the screen saying that "this site is unavailable". Fortunately, there was a work around. And, as Dan mentioned, he asked about the unavailability of CC on his cruise---and some checking was done--and yes, it was unavailable. Since Dan had not posted yet--it would seem that he is not the only guest who could not post at that time. It would be interesting to know the whole story--perhaps someone can ask a key person onboard.

But everyone gets to decide what they are comfortable with and what they are not. You are free to buy from whomever and sail with whomever. No one is restricting your access. And others have not criticized you for making whatever decision you are comfortable with. All of us are free agents in the game--and free to change our minds as well.

As I commented on Dan's thread, one Seabourn cruise we were on blocked Cruise Critic---AFTER my husband mentioned to a senior staff member that I was posting real time posts on Cruise Critic about our cruise. It was toward the end of the cruise and I had been posting daily reports. As I mentioned also, my husband knew of a work around, so I kept posting. So--it has happened before. This had nothing to do with bandwidth or internet package. There was a clear message which came up which stated that this website was unavailable.

Yes Sorry, it's been a while.

Thank you for making this clear. I don't understand the rush to explain that our reluctance to sail a cruise line wholly owned by the Saudis is a bad thing--and we need to understand how we are wrong due to the fact that we cannot truly separate the morally repugnant Saudi government from our lives. I do understand that Carnival (and that means Seabourn) badly needs cash. And I do also understand that to them, when desperate, it doesn't really matter where the cash comes from. But, we can choose where and when to sail. It's that simple.

Not to be combative, but to me, it IS different to CHOOSE to sail on a particular cruise line. I can choose not to sail. It is more difficult to parse out which jet liner my flight will be using and when. We all get to make our choices.

Interesting. I reported on CC about a SB cruise in real time a few years ago. Much to my chagrin, Mr. SLSD mentioned that I was doing this to the CD (who was filling in for Ross at the time). When we got back to our suite that evening, Cruise Critic had been blocked (it had been available earlier throughout the cruise) . We had a work around ---gogoduck Disappointing that you encountered unclean restrooms. Clearly not acceptable. Did you report the unclean restrooms to the Hotel Director?

Not surprised at all. I keep up with these things. It's not quite the same as choosing to sale on a cruise line whose brand has been purchased.