At Sea At Peace

The OP has since answered directly. 😀

Yep, that why I stated "For those suggesting 'money, compensation, etc.' " and not the OP.

Thanks for the reply. I believe it is important to identify 'who' the person(s) worked for. Living a mile from the port and dealing with cruisers a lot, many are not used to the port staff that are usually older, retired (sort of) snow birds from the northern states, mostly the northeast (and especially the 'city folk' in the northeast). If one is not 'used to them' them can seem very, very caustic, yet they'd not even notice it amongst themselves. It is what it is. I'm getting the vibe that you got 'one of those' and they 'dig in' versus easing back. I also don't know if you were actually accused of potentially being involved as a sex trafficker or if the said unskilled, poorly trained and salty snow birder OR if you felt accused of such with just the reference to their concerns overall. I still can't figure out why it would just you and your family. Back to add one item to our post with our TSA procedures with our Japanese biracial grandkids, one has our last name, one has her mothers-then fathers (ours also) with the hyphen and we offered that were both of the same parents with the naming decision for the oldest more to honor the Japanese grandparents at the time. Well, we hope you had good cruise regardless. Life is full of so much right now it's hard to stay unscathed. Take care and we hope that your are treated appropriately and informed in more detail about how and why this could have happened in the first place.

Well, you have raised good points and I agree with most. My point of the question to the OP (currently unanswered) was and is what the OP believes they were singled out and why is the desired outcome ~ 1. Well, then let's hear WHY you believe your one kid, among hundreds of families, were singled out and by whom is the "they?" They (identify who/whom) singled your kid and your family out because ~ ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ 2. What do want? An apology, a free cruise, both or both with money? ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________

Yep, good discussion. Also, MSC (the sea ships with the Yacht Club and non-Yacht Club) was never intended to be in the same league as Silversea or any of such comparative competitor class of small ships. So, although the prices are up since Divina first debuted, we find what the Yacht Club offers for the fare achieves their objective and satisfies ours when measured against the Haven and the Retreat. We'd like to try some of the small luxury lines. Booked and canceled Explora Journeys. Pretty booked from South Florida until we head back north in June, so will look at Fall, post hurricane season, again at some of the other small ships of luxury lines (primarily out of Port Everglades, a mile away for us). 👍

1. Well, then let's hear WHY you believe your one kid, among hundreds of families, were singled out and by whom is the "they?" They (identify who/whom) singled your kid and your family out because ~ ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ 2. What do want? An apology, a free cruise, both or both with money? ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________

😉 It's funny, sort of. It's not delusional. It happens across the cruise lines, so let's not single out MSC for the Yacht Club (or cruising for that matter; what hotel does one stay at in which some prefer a suite or club level with amenities?). Some even desire more separation from the tenant serfs by cruising on uber luxury lines so as to not even come in contact with the undesirables at all. 😉 Historically, for cruising "Concierge Lounge" amenities and benefits has long accrued to the upper tier cruiser by number of cruises (for point tier status) to type of current cruise stateroom purchased (for immediate access, aka club-within-a-club, or for higher point-to-tier status). IMO, MSC is at fault (i.e., takes the heat for the success) for doing it the best and for the best value in the Yacht Club while offering almost sub-Carnival fares for cruising experiences on an array of new ships out side of the Yacht Club. Haven follows (IMO only, and outside the Haven NCL has a completely different product and fare) and the Retreat is trying to make the formula work (and having a hard time with their most loyal customers over butler team assignments, drink upcharges, etc.). But the "Concierge Loungers" were the FORERUNNERS - - - across fleets. https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles/concierge-lounges-7-big-ship-cruise-lines-with-vip-options Celebrity has Michael's Club. Disney (which charges enough on short trips to make 2-3 sailings in the MSC Yacht Club 😲 and it the ultimate separator by inequalities of wealth) has the Concierge Lounge. Holland has the Neptune Lounge. MSC has the Top Sail Lounge (in the Yacht Club) NCL has its' Lounge in the Haven. Princess has the Suite Passengers Lounge. Royal Caribbean has the Concierge or Diamond Club Lounge.

Agreed, that is by design. Their Yacht Club market target is actually cruisers on RCCL, CEL, NCL that pay equal or more for a mere upper category, non-suite, non-club-within-a-club stateroom and get get the Yacht Club instead. Outside the Yacht Club their market is, by offering beautiful new ships, a price competitive product to attract Carnival cruisers (a big market). They do BOTH with the physical separation of the Yacht Club in its entirety from the non-Yacht Club. Only NCL does the same. CEL Retreat leave the Retreat for the lounge and dining at the rear of the ship down near specialty dining. Older MSC, Divina for example, has the restaurant at the back of the ship also; something they discontinued on the new Classes of ships. I don't think that it is by design though, as Hlitner has also established. Does it happen now and then, apparently as you appropriately note. I'm sure that it could potentially go both ways when the circumstances arise. I also don't know if missing 2 waiters in MDR, where there are hundreds of service staff, has the same effect as 2 waiters in the Yacht Club. So, IMO, passenger complaints about service in the MDR simply can't be solely attributed to a 'chance' happenstance of a 2 waiter need exchange one way or the other with the Yacht Club. As an aside, I'm surprised Arthur simply didn't take over the tables for the 2 absent waiters. He could probably handle it in his sleep!

Seriously, from SHIPS CONSTRUCTED 2001-2004! It is 12/29/2023! Even then, what is the ratio of Crew per 1,000 of Tonnage? MSC Armonia 720/65 = 11 Celebrity Summit 1,000/91 = 11 Norwegian Spirit 950/75 = 12.7 Carnival Miracle 960/86 = 11 PRESTO! I will complement on the statement "One of the reasons I am a fan of MSC is because it offers good value (so I can take more vacations)" Very honest. Many don't realize MSC outside-the-YC market penetration target is Carnival (not RCCL or NCL), inside-the-YC market penetration is that it is competitively priced compared to many veranda staterooms on NCL, RCCL and CEL (and well below the NCL and Retreat offerings). PLUS, they don't have 'billions and billions of INTEREST expense built up during the pandemic like Carnival, RCCL and NCL. Billions they are alternately spending on a vast # of new builds with more modernization and power plants. Take care all. 👍

We kept right along with @morpheusofthesea reporting on EJ. We've decided to let that run our a bit more before we give it a try and stick to the YC. It's still a hard ticket for B2B's and the prices are almost 3X our initial MSC YC cruise. But that is OK, we prefer it to the Haven hands down and don't want the Retreat pricing with the restaurant and lounge down under in the back of the ship (not a comparable model to YC or Haven). Two Wheels also pointed out personal happiness on a cruise. We've enjoyed every (every) cruise we've been on. A lot didn't go well or as planned, be being at sea is "us" and we take everything with no personal attachment. It happens. The cruise ships are packed liked restaurants on New Years, Easter, Mother's Day etc. et al. There will be people all over and there will be congestion and lines (going to a buffet on a cruise ship and expecting no lines, no crowding and open seating is lunacy).

Well, you stated that MSC dedicates resources to the select few in the Yacht Club instead of, like HAL you stated that didn't have a separate club-within-a-club, dedicating such resources to all guests. That's talking out of one side of the mouth and booking on the other side. You espouse dilution of the Yacht Club for the benefit of the non-Yacht Club, yet book the Yacht Club? You ought to run for political office. Do as I say not as I .....

Cite the support for that from these posts. You can't. You make it up. A reasonably prudent person how you could even assert that if you knew what it meant. Apparently you don't. In the same breath, thank you for honestly not contesting that you use cognitive bias to look for support for your anti-MSC posts. A good thing.

Your thesis is that MSC "is building its new ships to intentionally underservice its passengers" and you cite the passengers to crew (with no apparent understanding or knowledge of "staff" versus "crew" or "tonnage" in ignorans) ratio and the related ratings of 134 on CruiseCritic as proof. 😂 I am sorry, but after only a few recent MSC short cruises there appears to be more time spent bashing MSC than was actually spent on the MSC ships. There is a solution, go elsewhere.

Tipping is a global conundrum. No tipping expected to tipping 'at least %' very expected. Experiments in tips that are 'allocated' to the back of the house in restaurants. To each their own. Whatever works for you. We prefer tipping decisions be left to the tipper. On a regular (not a club within a club) stateroom, we tip in two parts (1) we leave the required gratuities 'alone' and in place as we really consider it a wage base supplement that is relied up by the service crew and (2) we also tip the room attendant, usually $100-$200 in US cash, and our repeat head waiter $20 per night. On a club stateroom (Yacht Club MSC, Haven NCL) we ironically prefer the 'butler team' for service and do not rely on the assigned butler much at all (which we inform of up front). The butler team in the YC for example are those that respond to our kind requests for services, etc. Those that 'get it' are easily identified and relied upon and we tip them, usually $100-$300 depending on ranking that we discuss). We don't tip until the end of week one (we are B2B cruisers in the club-club programs only) as we gravitate toward those servers (waiters, assistants, bartenders, pool attendants (towel changes, chair to shade moves all day, etc.) that 'get it' and deserve it without knowing for sure if they'll get a good tip. They aren't much different in week two because they are true providers (plus 'they must be good sensors of passengers based on their experiences). We also got spoiled rotten with the collective talent on the early MSC YC voyages in the states with a crew team with the names Mario, Authur, Roy, Vishnu, Onil, Allessandra etc. What a great couple of years we had following them around.

Seashore has sailed for 125 7-day equivalent week cruises, with a capacity of 5,179 (which should be modified for phase in post pandering). That's almost 650,000 passengers. CruiseCritic rating of 2.8 is based on 134 reviews! As I stated before, 134 that rated (mostly poor) versus the 649,866 that did not. Hmmm.

You are displaying what is known as confirmation bias as you'll only look for what supports your narrative. There's nothing wrong with that. I happens all the time. You are also focusing on just the servers (service) aspect of the ships, ignoring the size of the ships and the amount of crew dedicated to the ship (non-servers, etc.) They have to run the ship in addition to serving food and drinks! Harmony of the Seas - 226,963 Tonnage, Crew 2,300 - Crew to Thousand Tonnage to Service and Maintain 10 Seashore - 154,000 Tonnage, Crew 1,648 - Crew to Thousand Tonnage to Service and Maintain 9

Well, you didn't state that it was your 4th MSC cruise. Which brings to mind a fair question, if you do not like MSC why the 2nd, 3rd and 4th decision to continue? You cherry picked and you know you did. Simple post a link to the articles ranking each ships by each cruise line and that would be non-cherry picked. To the core, the more advanced design, the more advanced operating systems (think kitchens, laundry, automation and on and on) and, like state-side, technology is decreasing the human equivalent element across the board. MSC is very innovative and technologically on the arc of the curve. So, one understanding of such would suspect that ALL large cruise lines would logically have a higher passenger to crew ratio than their older ships, but one might only be able to look at the cost of technology and automation capital outlay per passenger for the other side of pendulum. Again, scoffing at MSC because they planned 'the notion of packing more passengers per crew' as an attempt to punish future customer passengers is a business plan that doesn't make sense to an unbiased eye or ear. They're approaching overtaking NCL, just a decade ago they were likely not even in the conversation. RESULTS make more of a compelling argument that uninformed tainting by a couple of passengers out of hundreds of thousands who are not complaining. Just saying. Now we get to the HEART of the matter. MSC is bad because it has a Yacht Club, taking away from services to non-Yacht Club. Ugh. No mention of NCL Haven or Celebrity Retreat. Likely also social inequality providers? Yikes. I guess that makes the selection of even staterooms unfair and a disservice to many categories. Just go Carnival, or their 'premium line' HAL.

It's the same story on Royal. It's the same story on Celebrity. Just on Silhouette. 10N SC. Packed to the gills. We were happy as could be yet the CC uber ultra minority of dissatisfied disgruntled have the biggest megaphone and are truly not representative of the other multiple thousands not expressing such. It's what social media has allowed to manifest (quite negatively). For example, 150 protesters recently in NYC....get all the attention. NYC has 8.5m people. 8,499,850 people did not protest. Not at all part of the story It's the same story on Carnival. It's the same story . . . . Food, drinks, service not the same. Across the board. Not unlike state-side. It is what it is. Except for MSC, the other big 3 have 'billions' in interest expense to cover.

The organization structure of the shipping magnate and the cruise line are mutually exclusive. To assert that they are running the cruise company based upon shipping company management is, well, misplaced at best. Do you think that they have grown to currently close in on usurping NCL of #3 in just a few short year because they treat customers like container freight? Stunning thought process.

Seriously, the MSC and Yacht Club hits keep coming. That's great! The USA based ships MSC Yacht Club staterooms are one the toughest to find. Wonder why? Oh, 'unhappiness' of course. So, you completed a 4-day cruise, made a judgement about the entire cruise line, cherry picked stats re: ratios and, low and behold, MSC's 'business plan' is to 'underservice customers!' YIKES. You're not alone. A lot of this going on recently, but not mathematically (your thesis) supported as the # of guests per week on the MSC cruises, and the Yacht Club specifically, doesn't show any such support other than a very tiny sub-1% minority at best. YET, the quality of 'service' and 'food' is the hottest topic (complaint) across ALL cruise lines (top 4). Hmmm. Maybe all of the cruise lines have planned to provide bad service? Thanks for including Disney ships. Add the price points to your grid and that mouse will stand out in another way. Again, great. It's tough to get a B2B in the Yacht Club now that more get to experience the offering and the value. We've done 7 B2B's since 2017, have another upcoming end of March into April. Looking forward to the same ole reliable terrible understaffing. LOL. How about apples to apples. Yacht Club passengers to staff. Haven passengers to staff. Retreat passengers to staff. BTW, the 'B&M-ing from the Retreat customer base is off the wall since the Butler change and possibly also upcharges for wine and drinks over the cap. Maybe, under the thesis proffered here, Celebrity is also intentionally is building ships-within-ships to make their customers unhappy with planned inferior service.

Yep, especially when the comparison of the OP was the 2001 Summit and looking to go Viking or Azamara and others chiming in with Oceania et al. 😉

Good point. We recently returned to Celebrity after 10-years! Here's the low down on how it went. Last minute on Silhouette 12/4-12/14/23. Awesome. Just booked Ascent Prime Aqua Class on 2/4/24. 😉

Yep. Will watch you come out of the port. Straight into headwinds the ship should be fine. I don't know how much fun it will be when not heading into the wind. It's a good ship.

Yep. https://www.portevergladeswebcam.com/

Well, you all are looking like you're getting ready to go. Lines being retracted. Good luck.