morechances

26 minutes ago, cruisestitch said:

Morechances, you seem to be promoting what are called “cruise to nowhere “. These are not allowed under US regulations. Nothing to do with the CDC. It has to do with the types of work visas and permits that crew would need if the ships do not visit at least one foreign port.

 

Every cruise that leaves the US and returns to the same port must visit a foreign port. Every cruise that leaves the US and returned to a different USB port must visit a “distant “foreign port as prescribed in the PVSA.

 

As I mentioned, there is only one ship currently allowed to have an itinerary entirely within the US, and that is the Norwegian Cruise lines ship that traverses the Hawaiian islands.  All others must stop at a foreign port.

Quite the opposite.

I am pointing out that until we have our house in order, many countries will not allow US departed ships to dock.

7 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

Irrelevant.

So, let's open the ports here, and get on ships that are not allowed to go anywhere, because foreign countries view the US as a high Covid risk.

1 minute ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

So you should shut down everything based upon what the media uses for click bait and the uninformed foreigners who take the sound bite as universal gospel?  Please stop the hyperbole. It doesn't work towards solving the problem.

How many cruises stay solely in the US?

1 minute ago, morechances said:

It totally includes irresponsible spring breakers.

That is part of the problem.

 

It is not unheard of for other countries to judge based on biased facts.

Hence why I said raw data.

The only news that some people are seeing in other countries are the clips of 10,000 college students on a beach. Or 35,000 fans in a baseball stadium.

And they are judging based on that.

1 minute ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

Would you please supply the data on which you are basing that last statement.  I'd like to see how many people who have received the vaccination are included in the spike.  I'd also like to know the age group associated with the spike and where contracted?  Could it possibly be due to irresponsible acting young people on Spring Break?  And of the vaccinated people included in the spike, how many have been hospitalized or died?

 

I'm not looking for statistics that show how many there have been since the pandemic began.

It totally includes irresponsible spring breakers.

That is part of the problem.

It is not unheard of for other countries to judge based on biased facts.

Hence why I said raw data.

21 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

Then the same solution should be imposed with everything that poses a threat.  Howz that working for some states' economies?  The unintended consequences are far more reaching.  That's like having a finger infection so you amputate the arm.  No more infection;  threat gone.

 

Have you ever encountered a stupid person?  By your logic, decapitate them. 😁

So, are economies more important than deaths?

Or overwhelmed heath care systems?

Just looked at a list of countries, and their status.

50 countries are completely closed.

122 are partially open

5 are said to be open soon.

43 have no restrictions.

Of the partially open, most require mandatory quarantine.

Some rate their openings based on country of origin. Typically based on how that county of origin is doing with outbreaks.

Let's face it, as much as we want to believe otherwise, the news is not good for ships originating from the US.

And this is definitely based on raw data. With Florida having a spike right now, it is not promising.

3 hours ago, ChucktownSteve said:

The CDC has this week shifted their health threat priorities from cruising. Oh wait, it never was cruising.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-director-designates-racism-serious-public-health-threat-2021-4?op=1

So, let's look at history. 

Cruise ships had terrible outbreaks at the end.

No one's fault. Situational reason. Close quarters, sharing dining spaces, etc. 

So, this is easy to stop the threat. 

Stop the ships.

Threat gone.

10 hours ago, rch3 said:

Don’t mistake the term “vaccine passport” and the federal bureaucratic oversight it connotes, with proof of vaccination. It is an entirely different thing for the government to require issuance of a health-based passport in order to travel, and private sector requirements for safe access to services. I don’t view the governor’s actions to be inconsistent.

 

Having said this, and being fortunate enough to have received my second dose of the Pfizer vaccine yesterday, my concern is with what the EU will require of U.S. citizens as we continue to rebook again and again.

What will countries require? Pretty simple.....

An accurate and not easily falsified record of proof of vaccination.

Something like, oh, say, a government issued vaccination passport.

1 hour ago, wrk2cruise said:

Does anybody know if anyone in the FL government is helping the cruise lines with contingency planning which the CDC is looking for to assure that a ship returning to a FL port has the necessary medical facilities available without overloading the healthcare system of the FLL/MIA,  Tampa or PC areas?   It would seem that this is an area where the state, cruise lines and CDC could cooperate to find an acceptable solution.

And, perhaps, a vaccine passport?!?!!?

8 hours ago, doneall50 said:

At least FL is trying! Other cruise ports should support this. 

On of the ways that cruise lines are going to get back in vaccinations.

And proof of vaccination. Hmmm, same Fl is against those. Hmmmm

2 hours ago, WonderMan3 said:

My understanding is that public schools and universities can't do that until it comes off its emergency use status and is fully approved by the FDA. Private schools and universities however can implement whatever rules they want at anytime for vaccine requirement (exceptions for health allergies and legitimate religious medical beliefs).

I am happy to see someone else who qualifies their comments with the word legitimate. 

I have always had a huge problem with people abusing legitimate reasons. Or using a reason when it is convenient.

Unless I am utilizing the drink package way too often, I believe that every cruise that I have been on has ports in multiple countries.

So, should we not consider that the ships have to comply with laws in multiple countries?

And I am fairly sure that whether a cruise line, and/or country requires the proof of vaccination, another country will require it.

That means that prior to boarding, you will need it. Unless you are planning on getting off the ship part way through a cruise.

6 hours ago, HskrCrsr said:

 

Although you don't have to wait to do the upgrades on the ship, X does indicate upgrades must be done after final payment. I have seen some posts suggesting the upgrades can be done anytime, so I am not sure. However, I have seen some other posts that back up your suggestion by pointing out that if you do your purchases/upgrades with a bartender, they get commission and you may have even better service for the rest of the cruise.

 

And I wonder about that onboard credit. Sure, a solo traveler gets twice the OBC, but can one person find useful ways to spend it all? Some of it is earmarked for excursions only.

The OBC is hard for a solo to spend depending on the cruise. I have an Asian holiday cruise coming up and it will not be cheap. 

18 hours ago, HskrCrsr said:

Solo travelers also get socked if they upgrade from standard AI to Elevate or Indulge. Per the Celebrity site, "Single guests will be charged double the per day amount for either the Elevate or Indulge package.  Single guests will receive double the amount of corresponding Onboard Credit; however, the Beverage and Wi-Fi packages will not be doubled as these amenities are provided per person. There will not be a refund for the unused packages."

 

I would hope that a solo traveler can just pay the upgrade fee of $12 per person per day for just one drink package.

That is definitely a ripoff.

I figured it out, and it was cheaper to do the upgrades on the ship. By several hundred dollars. Even with the onboard credit that comes with that upgrade.

18 hours ago, jules27556 said:

There is a possibility that I will be solo on a TA Reflection April 2022. I would have to pay double, no discount on cabin, even though no 2nd person would be there for tips, drinks. The only discount is you don't have to pay the port charged/taxes for 2.  That is according to my Celebrity advisor.☹️

I have sailed several times solo, and it gets expensive. 

I have found that one can possibly get a few perks on board if one asks nicely. I did get a premium beverage upgrade once. And a better internet package.

Also got some dining perks for the specialty restaurants.

But, in general, nothing more than only paying less port fees.

Oh, and only gratuities for one. 

Ships log.....

A sense of relief has come to the passengers and crew.

After the 23rd recount, the governor has conceded the election.

So, the ship that made history by being at sea for 879 days without a place to dock, will finally be allowed to come home once the 122 Floridians on board receive their vaccine passports.

The rest of the 2500 passengers and crew have promised not to make the Floridians walk the plank to disembark. But may boo and hiss a bit.

11 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

I can't help you. I never called you a liar... but I did tell you your facts were wrong, and they still are. Your facts are wrong. I have flown to many countries. I have entered Russia, Singapore, most of all of the Baltic countries, too many to name of the countries in the Caribbean, Canada, Mexico, Spain, Honduras, Guatemala, Costa Rica, Italy, Greece, Jamaica, France, Malaysia, Belize,Japan, & the Philipines. I've probably missed a few others. Not a single one... in fact NONE of the countries required me to show any identifications and/or proof of vaccinations. 

Table 3-25. Countries that require proof of yellow fever vaccination for all arriving travelers1

Angola Burundi Cameroon Central African Republic Congo, Republic of the Côte d'Ivoire Democratic Republic of Congo French Guiana Gabon Ghana Guinea-Bissau Liberia Mali Niger Sierra Leone Togo Ugand

Back to reality.....

How is a cruise ship going to be able to comply with the laws of the countries that it is going to visit?

4 minutes ago, farmermd said:

Amen!  🍷

By the way, definitely like your comment about taking that flight. 

That was a great response!

Seriously....

I do not remember what the final count was as to how many people got THE VIRUS, and how many people sadly died on the Diamond Princess.

But it was certainly more than 0.2% death rate.

And, is one death too many? I would definitely think so.

The closer we are to each other, the higher the risk. And we all know that there are times on any cruise ship we are packed like sardines.

We all love our personal space. 

Sadly though, some people are not able to respect that space. Not sure why.

So, the risk is there.

4 minutes ago, TrulyBlonde said:

Actually, in terms of # of posts, in the last 8 hours starting with post #28 @morechanceshas 16 posts and @farmermd has 5 starting at post #68. It really does not matter and they are both entitled to debate their issues. 

What can I say, I am bored, and find this entertaining. Is this #17?

5 minutes ago, Ozzmund said:

My reason for not wanting to cruise with unvaccinated passengers and/or crew is simple, I do not want to have my cruise turned around due to an outbreak onboard, or worse yet, ending up like Diamond Princess.

Thanks for grounding us.

I am voting for you to be the poster of the day!

1 minute ago, farmermd said:

Isn't the purpose of a vaccination to protect you and keep you safe?  If you have gotten the vaccine, whether you have papers or not to prove it, why are you worried about not being safe?   Help me understand the purpose of a vaccine.  Why do you, morechances, not want to go somewhere with people who are not vaccinated if you are?  

 

If others feel the same as morechances, can you chime in on why?  I find this fascinating.  Maybe I need to start a new thread on just this topic.  

 

I am definitely interested in other options as well. Also find it fascinating.

Vaccines are not perfect. That is a fact. But they do lessen the symptoms of a virus. And they lessen the risk of spreading a virus or disease.

We all take risks every day.

Before you jump on me, this is hypothetical........

If you were about to board a plane and were told that you have a 40% chance of crashing, would you still get on?

Probably not.

But there is always a tiny risk of a plane going down. However, not high enough to be a risk for me.

So, even vaccinated, you do have a risk, but that risk is much lower if everyone else is also vaccinated.

Again, I do not have any more rights than anyone else.

BUT, I also do not have less rights than anyone else.

30 minutes ago, mnocket said:

Yes.  Everything you say is true if you take a benign view of a vaccination passport.  However, I can show my vaccination records, along with any other requested health records, today.  I don't need a vaccination passport.  That said, if a vaccination passport is just another form of documenting my vaccination status I have no objection - although I could argue it's redundant and unnecessary, but let's not argue that as it's a minor point.

 

My issue is that many programs grow beyond their original intended purpose.  Once a vaccination passport exists, people/companies/governments will no doubt see extensions that would be of benefit to them.  I pointed out a couple in my original post....

• Some cruise lines have already indicated a requirement for passengers of a certain age be certified by their Dr as fit to travel.
• I can imagine certain travel/tour companies would like to see an indication of a traveler's mobility (mobility score?)

It would be logical for some to see these (and other) fitness to travel metrics added  to a vaccination passport should one exist.  The obvious problem is that such information could be used for subtle discrimination - letting travel companies filter out less desirable customers - or worse.

 

Of course this may not happen.  A vaccination passport may remain forever nothing more than it was originally intended to be.  It would be benign and even helpful.  The question is.....  will this be the case?  Some people strongly believe that will be the case.  For me, I see a risk.  Maybe I'm jaded, but I believe programs have a tendency to grow in scope.  Once started, they can take on a life of their own.

 

So in the final analysis, it comes down to how you assess the benefit against the risk.  For me the potential for abuse (risk) outweighs the benefit.  Others are certainly entitled to differing opinions.

Just for fun, I just looked up fake vaccine records, and found several websites that are selling them for $20.

This is why we need an official vaccine passport.