Kilroyshere

I too have been wondering what is in SB's future? With the sale of Odyssey (450 guests) and bringing on 2 Expedition ships (combined total of 528 guests), SB will have a net gain of only 78 possible guests, while arguably requiring twice the number of crew to operate and and arguably twice as much operating costs with 2 ships (Venture & Pursuit) versus 1 (Odyssey). This doesn't make sense to me. Without purchasing an existing ship from another cruise line, it would take at least 5-years from decision to build, financing, design, letting contracts and construction to bring a new ship to SB's fleet. Perhaps the best years of Ultra Luxury Cruising and what so many of us came to love with SB in particular, is becoming a thing of the past. I hope I'm wrong about this.

We tried Celeb Retreat class. Retreat is not even close to SB and outside of Retreat venues the rest of Celeb ships are mass market at best. Retreat is a Hilton experience charging Ritz prices.

Regarding crew knowing guests names, one other cruise line I know of has facial recognition running everywhere in their ships. At dining venues and everywhere else you appear on their tablet and then are addressed by name, but with no credit to crew IMO!

Carnival Corporation's website says the OBC for shareholders is "applicable on sailings through July 31, 2024." Anyone know if this benefit will be extended to cruises booked beyond this date?

Agreed. The TK table crudities of carrot and celery sticks was weak. The 50's/60's American supper club theme went the way of the Dodo bird and hasn't been seen since for good reasons.

I find it odd that Quest outta Miami November 1st that we've booked, is listed as a 'tender required' port. Asked Seabourn about this and they acknowledge it's listed as a tender, but have no more info... Anyone know how to 'splain this?

We are previous X cruisers and twice Retreat cruisers (January 24 was latest and last). We're done with Celebrity. Retreat fares are on par with ultra luxury, all inclusive, smaller ship cruise lines. Retreat service, amenities, food, exclusivity and luxury is NOT on par with ultra luxury cruise lines in our opinion. Retreat charges 'Ritz' prices while delivering a glorified Holiday Inn Holidome. Outside of the very few Retreat venues, you have the same mega size, crowds, lines, buffets and over-all mediocrity of mass market ships. There is no 'no' on ultra luxury ships. Order a prime cut Filet Mignon or Sirloin off menu, if the ship's kitchen pantry has it, they will gladly serve it. Luminae menus are very limited. Off menu orders we tried to get were not obliged on either of our 2 Retreat cruises in the past year. Ordering some Luminae 3rd entrees for a 2-top table would cause a surcharge on some menu listed items. This is not ultra luxury but you are still paying for ultra luxury. There are no up-chages for specialty dining on most ultra luxury ships. As a 'Retreater' you pay up-charges for Celebrity specialty venues. We're done with Celebrity.

BRAVO! Thoroughly enjoyed your VLOG and recounting your Ritz cruise experience. We too enjoy small ship cruising with Seabourn and Regent our past favorites. Small ships are no longer so small. Big ships got bigger as are small ships getting bigger. Your posted VLOG peaked our interest in Ritz who seem to offer the service an intimate cruise experience we had come to desire and now find difficult to find. Kudos on your videos, they are informative and very well done indeed...

Kippers are broiled, not microwaved?

Pickled or Kippered herring in my opinion, has little “smell” or aroma on a plate served. I would ask you; you’ve walked the Buffet and sat next to people where herring was served. Did you notice the smell or aroma? I believe other common dishes, such as bacon, onions, garlic, that big platter of cheese, Indian cuisine have far more powerful aromas, which others may or may not like. But back to the original thread, for those who enjoy kippers here is a treat Luminae will accommodate.

Lox, bagel and cream cheese, smoked, cured fish and pickled herring are very popular and regular MDR, Buffet and Luminae breakfast offerings.

Scotch smoked Kippers and various varieties of herrings were traditional breakfasts all over the UK, Ireland, throughout Scandinavia, North Atlantic and the Canadian Maritime Provence, who produce them. Scandinavian crewed ships e.g.; NCL offer Kippers on their MDR menu. They are quite nice with scrambled eggs and are an alternative to smoked bacon.

I enjoy a broiled breakfast Kipper. This is a dish difficult to find almost anywhere else these days. Was very pleased on embarkation day lunch in Luminae when I inquired about Kippers and was told they'd be available every morning if wished. I wished them so to my delight several mornings and they were prepared to perfection.

Retreat is very good. But it's not SB... We're frequent SB cruisers. This past December/January we took a Retreat Holiday cruise. Celebrity is going all out to attract younger, affluent cruisers who are likely to also be ultra luxury class small ship cruisers in their Retreat class. Cuisine in Retreats Luminae dining is excellent and in our opinion on par with SB's MDR. Luminae selections are more limited than SB. Custom menu requests were gladly and skillfully accommodated in Retreat as they are on SB. Luminae service was as good as SB's. I enjoyed Celebrity's all inclusive wine selections much more than SB's. Just my opinion. Retreat's private lounge has full-time concierge staff who went out of their way to help making reservations, work out any issue with a cabin, service or amenity. Bar service in the Retreat lounge is excellent. The lounge was never crowded and offered small group entertainment live music selections, a magician and other presentations. Retreat's concierge service begins long before cruising. They took phone calls to assist with bookings, questions and special requests with a dedicated and capable Retreat phone staff. On the not so good side of Retreat service were lounge hors d'oevres, canapes, snacks...all were poor (think Oscar Meyer Lunchables cold cuts and orange generic cheese and crackers). Doesn't come close or compare with SB's offerings at Tea Service, pre-dinner lounge hors d'oevres and, caviar is M.I.A. on Celebrity without a special request and massive up-charge. Buffets on SB have always been excellent in our opinion and are far superior to Celebrity which were mass market average. Retreat Embarkation/Disembarkation priorities for expedited luggage and reception were superior to SB. Once at the port, it was barely 10 minute in a separate Retreat dedicated check in area with no lines and we were escorted aboard and shown to our cabin which was ready to occupy before noon. Once outside some wonderful reserved Retreat venues, the rest of Celebrity ships are mass market, mega ships trying trying to appeal to all levels, ages and price-point cruisers. Outside of Retreat feels like HAL, Royal, or NCL with similar big ship service, crowds, lines, photo/art/jewelry/casino solicitations and noise. SB doesn't offer children's amenities. Celebrity has programs and venues for children - if children on a cruise matter to you either way. We've always found SB offering a more intimate, sophisticated and personal cruise. Over the years as SB ships grew and much of what we came to love has changed, not always for the better. Yet SB still offers us that 'small yacht' feel that Celebrity Retreat never will. Price wise; the daily cost of a SB veranda suite might get you an upper level Retreat suite on Celebrity.

We sailed on the Song and met Captain Dag when Regent was a Radisson property. Song service, ambiance and attention to detail was superb. We were also cruisers on Seabourn's 3 little sister ships Pride, Spirit & Legend. Dag was Captaining them till SB retired those ships around 2014. Song's history had several stories told to us by crew. One was she was built or refurbished by a Japanese industrialist and thus the name Song of Flower.

Evening Dress in Antarctica: A Type S Cold Water Immersion Suit...? 🙄

Regent v. Celebrity CC scores are not a valid comparison. Apples v. Oranges. Regent, Seabourn, Silversea all market themselves as 'All Inclusive, Small Ship, Ultra-Luxury' lines with under 1,000 passengers per ship. Celebrity is a mass market, not all inclusive, multi-class cruise line with ships accommodating many thousands of passengers. Celebrity does not market themselves in the "Ultra-Luxury, Small Ship" category. A better comparison for Celebrity might be Royal, Princess, Cunard, etc. Viking comes closer to SB, SS and Regent, but as I understand, they don't include full open bar only offer beer & wine. Viking ships carry more passengers than SB, SS or Regent. Viking does not up-charge for specialty restaurants. Last time we were on SS, there was up-charge for their specialty restaurant. I'd give some validity and weight to CC's rating of Viking at 4.6 v. SS at 3.8 in choosing a cruise line.

Your first rebuttal claimed SB has Up-charges for specialty restaurants. Others have refuted and shown you to be "incorrect or misleading." One SS catastrophe was enough to convince us that in our opinion, SS does not come close to SB quality. I'd add to my above: SB served every night, pre-dinner cocktail hour hors d'ouevres and canapes in the lounges, I never saw hot hors d' ouerves on SS. SB had a very impressive high tea service, SS did not. We were denied comp caviar on SS and it was only offered from an up-charge menu. SB is generous with caviar without any up-charge. Don't listen to me with one terrible SS experience. Here on Cruise Critic, the cruise line ratings are based on thousands of respondents and find SS at just 3.8 points "average" and SB at 4.1 points "very good." Enjoy...

SB v. SS? SB is more akin to Regent sailing. There's no comparison in our experience between SB & SS. Seabourn is far superior to Silversea: Same buffet breakfast and lunch on SS every day. SB changes every day. Few to no floral arrangements on SS. SB had floral arrangements including in the cabin, 10 days on SS and no outside entertainment. SB had 2 outside musicians and one lecturer average per week sailing. No comp caviar on SS. SB is known for generous no up-charge caviar service. SS up-charges for specialty restaurant. SB includes specialty restaurant dining privileges. Cruise Critic Review Rating: SS 3.8 'Average.' SB 4.1 'Very Good' That's how we see it...

MDR and Buffet: Mainstream mass market C- Luminae: B+ Specialty Restaurants: C+

On Millennium this past January, we too thought the salad and soup choices were limited in Luminae. They gladly let us have the MDR and Blu menus which had several salad, soup and other options that we ordered. As others have stated, Luminae will make special request meals if made in advance. I particularly like kippers and scrambled eggs for breakfast. This is commonly served on cruise lines with a lot of Scandinavian or Northern European crew. So I inquired in Luminae on the first day of our cruise if they might be available. I was delighted when told kippers would be made available to us every morning thereafter for the entirety of my cruise. I indeed enjoyed them several times.

My math stands corrected. Over the next 5 years or so without building a new ship(s) or buying used vessels, SB loses 450 beds with the sale of Odyssey and gains 528 beds in 2 new purpose built expedition ships. That's a net gain of 78 beds, a negligible number IMO for a 5 year outlook. Profitability is unknown; Fuel, crew and overhead running 2 expedition ships with 528 beds vs. 450 with one general cruise itinerary ship that had another 10 years SB life in it? I'm not discounting the value of the expedition ships. Silversea's future is heavily invested in expedition cruises. But I don't believe expedition ships carry enough passengers for SB's financial future and there are no other SB expedition ships nor general cruise ships ordered that anyone publicly knows of. That's my opinion.

No kids amenities or activities on SB was a big plus for us. But for a family, SB is not as viable or cost effective. Multi classes on bigger ships afford mom and dad the ultra exclusive service choice, while putting the kids in a budget priced room and letting them enjoy the facilities focused on kids and younger audiences.

Agreed that once outside the 'Retreat' (aptly named btw), you are on a mass market big cruise ship. Celebrity is filling their Retreat rooms at premium prices and they are building a younger audience that has many more future celebrity loyalty cruise years business potential. Given current economic, staffing, logistics, fuel costs/uncertainty and health issues particular to cruising, we cannot see SB's viable future plans. SB's 2 specialty purpose built expedition ships were committed and built before the pandemic. With no new ships on SB's drawing board and sale of Odyssey, in 2024 SB will have 605 fewer traditional cruise itinerary beds than they did pre-pandemic. SB's loyalty base is arguably aging out faster than the Celebrity model. That is not a good business outlook nor future cruise option in our opinion. Cruise lines must constantly upgrade and morph with changing economies and market conditions and consumer demands. What exactly is SB doing to address this? SB built the last 2 O-class ships that for us are over-crowded. They added another deck with 150 more beds. The MDR, SB Square and other popular venues were not equally made larger to accommodate the added capacity. This was a big mistake and detraction from SB in our opinion as customers. 5 years and better part of a billion dollars to put another ship under the SB flag? I don't see that happening given CCL's balance sheet and public announcements. Will SB purchase secondary market ships like Crystal's or other luxury small ship operator? Ya don't sell a fine ship like Odyssey, to later buy someone else's used ship. SB tried to rebrand the used SB Sun and it failed. Legend was a one-off opportunity because it was originally built alongside Pride and Spirit for another cruise line, so it needed no significant refit to morph into the fleet when acquired used. Just our opinion here; SB might one day sooner than later, become a top class of service on a HAL, Cunard, Costa or Princess mass market cruise ship ala the Celebrity model with dedicated SB Square, dining, private club, etc within those big boats. The Boeing 707 put the final coffin nail in the luxury ocean liner transportation industry. Given the consumer, economy of scale, staffing issues and macro events, small ship luxury cruising as SB, Regent, Silversea et al offer today, may be what the great ocean liners were when Boeing first rolled out the 707...

Odyssey was almost 5 years in planning, building and launched in 2010. Sold after just over a decade in service (including pandemic stand-down) is very peculiar to us. Her service life to SB would have had at least another decade of use. Begs the question why she really has been sold? The first 3 O-Class, 450 capacity ships in our experience, kept up the standards of excellence SB was built on with their previous 3 little sister ships (200 capacity). Then came Corporate's decision to build 2 more O ships with an additional deck and another 150 passengers (604 capacity) in basically the same O hull. Service declined, exclusivity and excellence in our eyes was diminished. SB excellence of service has been steadily declining and becoming more mass market to us. And that decline in our eyes began before the pandemic. Our last 2 SB cruises were not what we came to love and became loyal to. It takes 5 years or longer from Corporate commitment, planning, financing, design, contracting, laying keel and floating to put a new ship into service. SB has nothing known on the drawing board. SB is capacity fixed over the next half decade with 2 in her fleet purpose built expedition ships (a separate market). SB is indeed a smaller player in the Luxury small ship cruise traditional destination line-up. This does not in our eyes, portend well for SB as we came to enjoy cruising with. Perhaps the Luxury small ship industry has seen it's best days. Perhaps the Celebrity model with 4 classes on each ship is the future; Celebrity offers "Retreat" class with SB/Regent quality service, food and private dining room, lounges, spas, outdoor dedicated spaces. Then they offer "Aqua" class, "Concierge" class and 'steerage' class. One ship with different class experiences and levels of service. They seem to be running at near full capacity with Retreat prices comparable to SB/Regent fares. One ship with many classes is not new. Cunard and most 20th Century passenger ships offered multi-class service when ships were the primary trans-ocean mode of transportation. Times change, economies change, audiences change. Beyond expedition cruising, we hope SB's Corporate shows us a new model and plans that will keep SB in our repertoire of vacation plans.