Harry Peterson

On a slightly different tack, anyone else fed up to the back teeth with the constant press attacks on GPs, doctors and the NHS generally? Had a prearranged phone call from my specialist yesterday, at my own request to avoid a hospital visit. We discussed a few issues, guy was as always very helpful and attentive, moved on to talking about the currently increased Covid incidence, and it turned out the poor guy was at home, with his third bout of Covid, all contracted in the hospital. Would have been very easy just to call in sick and ditch the appointment - but he didn’t and was continuing to work, despite feeling absolutely rotten. Likewise my GPs - excellent service throughout the pandemic, and still is. I’m quite happy with phone + email responses, but on the very rare occasion that I’ve needed to be seen, I have been. Usually on the same day. I just don’t recognise all the constant complaints, unless they stem from people unreasonably demanding to see a GP when a different form of consultation would work just as well.

And the debts? And the very high interest rates on those debts? And fuel prices? And inflation? And a looming world recession? But as a shareholder, I admire your positivity.

It could be even worse than that: “We will pass on the value of the saving in the form of a higher-grade cabin, or other added value benefit.” Pretty vague weasel words there!

Saga does indeed have a price promise, but it’s not quite what you might think (see below). I agree that P&O should change their policy to encourage early bookings, but almost always in the past the very early prices have been the lowest. Our Cruise Price Promise Please note: This applies as long as the discounted holiday is the same package offered under the same terms of sale (which means the full terms that apply to your holiday contract, including your cabin grade and whether your cabin is allocated at the time of booking or at embarkation). Ad-hoc services are excluded. In calculating any possible saving due, we’ll take into consideration all offers and discounts that were applied at the time of booking and compare the overall price that you’ve been charged with the current price. We will pass on the value of the saving in the form of a higher-grade cabin, or other added value benefit.

I’m no defender of P&O’s pricing tactics, but isn’t this just a variation of the post-booking price drops that also annoy people? Or am I missing something?

They still need the money to do it though, and with inflation running at around 11% they may not all have it. The promised Triple Lock on state pensions was ditched, energy prices have more than doubled, and fuel is around £2 a litre. Some pensioners will have plenty of slack, but a lot won’t, and holidays will be the first thing to go.

Still Swiss owned by the looks of it, and still based in Bromley. I used to wait for a 47 bus to my office outside their offices and reckoned if anything went wrong with the holiday I could bang on their door! It looks to have gone upmarket since then. It was our first ever package holiday, to Calella de la Costa. 1971. Very cheap, and the ‘en suite’ shower was in the corridor outside the room. Very, very exciting though, and so very different from Britain back then. Franco was still in power, and even kissing in public was risky. Great holiday though.

Nor me mine, but I’m assuming the Ventura thread was merged into this one. Thanks for the information about Cosmos though.

Issues do arise sometimes, with any holidays. They always have. I’m old enough to remember those half built Spanish hotels in the 1970s, and holidays booked on the basis of artists’ impressions in brochures. And Clarksons, Cosmos, Horizon, Intasun etc.. What really matters though is how companies handle these problems, and what they do for the customers affected - who have after all paid a full price based on full provision of what was promised. I can remember getting some pretty substantial refunds from traditional holiday companies for inadequately fulfilled contracts - I wonder what P&O will be offering?

You may be right. She wasn't at all bothered initially, and we laughed about it, but later in the day when she thought about it she did start wondering where on earth society is going wrong that two big blokes can feel free to abuse a rather small woman in her 70s. It's more that worry, I think, and the concern for her grandchildren living in such a society that upset her. She's fine now - after a career in nursing, health visiting and end of life care she's had worse!

Funnily enough, my wife's first words afterwards were: "That wouldn't have happened in Waitrose." And it wouldn't. Her next words were that she'd go to Aldi next time the situation arises (next week, actually) - wouldn't happen there either! No Waitrose in that particular town - just Tesco and the two German ones.

What delightful people there are around, outside the niceness and sanity of this forum. Well, most of them, anyway. I had an appointment yesterday in what used to be a pleasant market town about forthcoming cataract surgery. Bit of a distance from home because they have a shorter waiting list. My wife had, very reluctantly, to go into the nearby Tesco to use the loo. She wore a mask, for obvious reasons given my lack of immunity. Two guys in their 50s to my 70 year old wife: “T*at”. What possesses these anti-maskers that they think they have the perfect right to call my wife that, just for wearing a mask at a time when infections are rising very fast again and we’re in the middle of yet another wave?

Absolutely not! It’s entirely P&O’s fault for not having built in sufficient margins for potential delays. You shouldn’t have to take a belt and braces approach, but sometimes it’s just safer, given past experiences.

That’s the line we always took, but it’s not something you ever see in those ‘10 things new cruisers should know’ articles. Don’t suppose the cruise companies would like it!

The Guardian sums it up rather nicely - skimpflation. Good word! https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/jun/28/cancelled-flight-shoddy-clothing-disappointing-meal-blame-skimpflation-the-hidden-curse-of-2022

Maybe a lot of Norwegian grandmas in the area being chased by wolves……….?

Sorry to hear that. In defence of the ship, I’d say that in its earlier days it was a pleasure to sail on. Excellent food, excellent staff, excellent entertainment and excellent accommodation. It’s very sad to read that P&O economies and cheese paring since then have spoiled it so much. The more I read the more inclined I am to look for alternative forms of holiday. It won’t be just Ventura either - these issues are company wide now, and it was already heading that way when we were on Azura in 2019.

Hope she recovers quickly, and that you stay clear. Really selfish behaviour there, particularly given the hugely increased infectivity of the latest variants. It’s spreading like wildfire, and the infection rates are going up again surprisingly fast at a time of year when you’d expect them not to be. Not everyone is safe from serious illness, and not everyone gets protection from the vaccines. There’s a drug called Evusheld, from AstraZeneca, which would help enormously and allow half a million people plus their families to return to some semblance of normality, and stop having to shield. It’s been approved for use in the UK by the MHRA, but the government is currently coming up with every excuse under the sun not to actually fund or provide it. Blood Cancer UK and various other charities are doing their utmost (https://getevusheld.uk/) and we have an active group in touch with MPs across the country, and what’s really interesting is that when all the governmental responses are pooled and shared they all tell a completely different and contradictory story. As you said in your original post - be careful out there.

Sorry to hear that. I’m amazed at the cut backs you mention - I’ve always felt that the food on P&O was one of its saving graces, even latterly, and that included the rather pleasant lunches in the MDR on sea days. Likewise breakfasts in the Epicurean, which were really enjoyable. If those are gone, frankly so are we. Like you, we don’t cruise for self-service buffet dining. Happy to do that at other times, but not on holiday, and certainly not on an expensive cruise holiday. I do hope things pick up for you.

Indeed - a very much higher standard.

From which on the last occasion I picked up a very nasty eye infection by stupidly putting them to my eyes without first using an antibacterial wipe. Quite difficult to get hold of the required medication in the Canaries without a prescription - though I'm sure the ship's clinic would have obliged at substantial cost. I learned a lesson from that about using binoculars used by other unknown people.

Very true. And in reality Carnival may already be worthless - it all depends on how you value its assets, and whatever Generally Accepted Accounting Principles might say that's always going to be a matter of argument. I was thinking more in terms, though, of a private equity buyout, with some suitable corporate deal involving magically attributing the debts to the part of the company they don't want, and the assets to the bits they do. No wonder newly qualified corporate lawyers in the City of London are being offered well over £100k pa on the day they qualify!

No guarantees on that one though! Just a guess. The administrators, if the company does go under, would have a duty to maximise the income available to distribute to creditors. They’d weigh up the various options to decide that, and frequently in the holiday industry it makes more sense to go ahead with what was booked and collect the outstanding balances than cancel and lose them. It depends on how much it would bring in, as against how much it would cost to run the cruises. The closer to the date of administration, the greater the chance of its going ahead. Or, of course, a predator company might see Carnival as a good value purchase if the shares go low enough.

The share price is irrelevant, except so far as it reflects public opinion of the value of the company’s assets, including goodwill as a going concern. If it were to go under, the administrators might well in any event want to continue the cruises to bring in the income that would be lost from outstanding balances. Slightly similar to hotels, in a way - hotels don’t disappear when their owners go bust. They just get new owners.

To buy now may indeed give you a chance of a nice profit down the road. I suspect there's a far greater chance of losing the lot, though, because of Carnival's huge and very expensive debt pile, and that's the much more common view amongst financial commentators.