Can a cruise line do this?

Friends in Australia tell me they pay significantly more for the same cruise than Americans do. I have been told by another friend, who is a TA here in the U.S., that she can and has booked cruises for pax from other countries. However, our Aussie friends have been told (I'm not sure by whom) that if they do not purchase their cruise from an Australian TA that Princess may refuse to let them board the ship. Unless there is something in the cruise contract to that effect, I do not see how Princess could refuse to let them board. But, for peace of mind they've booked through an Australian TA.

Anyone with definitive knowledge about this?

The only way I know of for Australians to book through a U.S. TA is if they have a U.S. address to give for the booking. No, they are not supposed to do this, but there are ways around it. I have friends in Sydney who have done this for years. Lately, Princess has been giving them a bit of trouble upon boarding since they hold Australian passports, but they have still been able to board.

Australians book under totally different rules through Princess, and yes, Princess can do this, it isn't against any law. ;)

I have read the Princess passage contract, and there is no mention of a requirement that passengers must have a U.S. address. Perhaps they will refuse to book a cruise unless someone can provide a U.S. adddress, but I should think that once they've accepted payment and issued a contract that they would have to let you board unless you come under one of the other reasons for denial of boarding.

I have read the Princess passage contract, and there is no mention of a requirement that passengers must have a U.S. address. Perhaps they will refuse to book a cruise unless someone can provide a U.S. adddress, but I should think that once they've accepted payment and issued a contract that they would have to let you board unless you come under one of the other reasons for denial of boarding.

to what extent can an address not be yours? My father lives in the U.S. and I'm British, my husband french. We reside in the uk. Sure it is plausible, albeit unlikely (!), for my Dad to buy us a cruise as a present from his U.S. address?

How would thye know?

Hannah

I am no lawyer but I am sure these ...."agreements"....would not stand up in a court of law. Just look at how many airlines are fined for uncompetitive business practices, it is called price fixing.

The additional costs for persons living in those countries in which Princess colludes in the "molestation" of their pax is not inconsequential. My Aussie friend would have to pay over $1000 U.S. per passenger more than I to book a partially obstructed view on the Crown Princess British Isles tour this coming June.

Princess tells them this price differential is due to demand. Somehow I doubt that.

Friends in Australia tell me they pay significantly more for the same cruise than Americans do. I have been told by another friend, who is a TA here in the U.S., that she can and has booked cruises for pax from other countries. However, our Aussie friends have been told (I'm not sure by whom) that if they do not purchase their cruise from an Australian TA that Princess may refuse to let them board the ship. Unless there is something in the cruise contract to that effect, I do not see how Princess could refuse to let them board. But, for peace of mind they've booked through an Australian TA.

 

Anyone with definitive knowledge about this?

Maybe some subsidies for the US cruiser who pays with a weak Dollar ?

Maybe some subsidies for the US cruiser who pays with a weak Dollar ?

No that excuse does not hold as it has been going on for years even when the uS$ was strong

I am no lawyer but I am sure these ...."agreements"....would not stand up in a court of law. Just look at how many airlines are fined for uncompetitive business practices, it is called price fixing.

But that is between airlines in the same country.....not airlines of a different country.

I too would consider it fraud for a non-US citizen or legal alien to rent a PO Box or use a friend's or relative's address so as to be able to book a cruise through a US TA. People all over pay more or less for cruises not only based on where they are from but whether or not they hit any specials, kept up with possible downward pricing, etc...

International business is not as simple as most of you would like to think. You have to follow the regulations of the countries where you operate.

For example: My company provides exactly the same service to clients in Australia as we do in the US. In order to provide service to Australian clients, we have to set up a separate business unit for the country. That business unit is subject to all of the laws that govern the way that business operate in Australia. We therefore have to hire people who are knowledgeable with those laws - payroll, personnel, legal, accounting, and so on - and the business unit operates as a separate entity with its own P&L so that it can be taxed according to the country's laws. We also are required to have the technical specialists and engineers in place, and they of course pay taxes and receive benefits according to Australian law. We would go broke if we charged US prices for our Australian clients. The cost basis is just that much higher.

Another thing that creeps in to complicate issues is that we are a huge multinational corporation with tremendous resources, competing with local companies with limited resources. We cannot go in, cut prices, and compete unfairly because that might hurt the local businesses competing with us. The net result is that an Australian client might pay twice as much for exactly the same service, but at the end of the day we don't make any more per job than we do charging half as much in the US. (Actually, we're slightly more profitable in the US...but we're not paying for socialized health care, either. Yet. What will happen to our prices if that happens? I'll leave that one as an exercise. :))

The analogy with cruise lines isn't perfect, but they have similar requirements. They wish to do business in Australia, so they are required to set up a local shop. Like us, it's the same company, same product, same service. The difference here is that instead of dealing directly with customers, cruise lines deal through agents.

I suspect that the difficulties that people in Australia have trying to book outside their country stems from the fact that if Princess or any cruise line permits this, they are in fact violating the agreements that permit them to operate cruises in the Australian market. When they knowingly allow an Australian citizen to book a cruise with a US agent, they are permitting US businesses who do not have the legal privilege to operate in Australia to compete with Australian businesses. They are enabling foreign competition to come in and cut prices. [added: Another way to look at it - allowing people to book directly through the US avoids possible tariffs and fees that are part of international business. The same laws exist in the US]

The reason Princess has to officially take the stand they do, as do RCCL and others, is that they must remain in compliance with business law. While there probably isn't a law that states that cruise lines must use only local agents, there are books full of laws that essentially amount to the same thing.

The net result is that Australians will pay substantially more for the same product, and Princess probably does not profit any more from your trade than they do from a US booking. But you've got "free" health care.

Friends in Australia tell me they pay significantly more for the same cruise than Americans do.

Your Australian friends also pay significantly more for cars, gasoline, liquor, and just about everything else they use. They might want to re-phrase or re-direct their question.

Excellent explanation, Spongerob. People will choose to ignore facts, though, when doing so can add to their pocketbook. You should save this response to paste in response to future posts, as this comes up a lot.

I am no lawyer but I am sure these ...."agreements"....would not stand up in a court of law. Just look at how many airlines are fined for uncompetitive business practices, it is called price fixing.

Problem is you have to challenge it by bringing a lawsuit against Princess Australia. That is a very costly process, much more than the "$1000" price difference. In Austrailia, unlike the US, a plaintiff who unsuccessfully sues is liable for the defendant's legal bills. That is a pretty big risk.

This is not price fixing. Price fixing is when competitors conspire to raise prices.

the difficulty giving a USA address is if you board at a USA port, you'd need to show a residency visa

If you don't want to wade through my previously posted dissertation, consider this:

 

Your Australian friends also pay significantly more for cars, gasoline, liquor, and just about everything else they use. They might want to re-phrase or re-direct their question.

I personally appreciate your wisdom.......Kruisey:)

Thanks for the explanation, Spongerob, which obviously also applies to the Brits who, like the Aussies, also have a much more socialistic economy than we have here in the U.S. I guess their governments have to raise enough money to pay for all those services.

Wonder how in the world the Australian trial lawyers let that law requiring plaintiffs to pay all costs if they lose their suit get enacted?

Oh well. Guess I'm just a fraudster :p

Maybe some subsidies for the US cruiser who pays with a weak Dollar ?

Try paying in New Zealand dollars then, weak dollar and no subsidies!

Friends in Australia tell me they pay significantly more for the same cruise than Americans do. I have been told by another friend, who is a TA here in the U.S., that she can and has booked cruises for pax from other countries. However, our Aussie friends have been told (I'm not sure by whom) that if they do not purchase their cruise from an Australian TA that Princess may refuse to let them board the ship. Unless there is something in the cruise contract to that effect, I do not see how Princess could refuse to let them board. But, for peace of mind they've booked through an Australian TA.

 

Anyone with definitive knowledge about this?

I found from an online TA which states:

"We are able to offer the deeply discounted U.S. rates of most of the cruise lines we represent to citizens of other countries. However, the following cruise lines now prohibit all U.S. travel agencies from selling cruises to citizens of countries other than the U.S. and Canada, unless they have a residence in the U.S. or Canada. This is not a "TA" policy or a U.S. government policy, it is a corporate policy instituted by each of these cruise lines.

Costa Cruises

Cunard

Holland America

MSC Cruises

Oceania Cruises

Princess*

Royal Caribbean

Star Clippers"

You're not taking into consideration that there are Princess subsidiaries in Australia and the UK.

Carnival Corporation and Carnival plc are the two legal entities which together comprise the headline Carnival business (including all the Carnival-owned brands).

If you book a Princess cruise in the UK, you book directly with Carnival plc, which also tells you that most Princess ships are operated by Princess Cruise Lines Limited, a Bermudan Company.

If you book a Princess cruise in the US, you book directly with Princess Cruise Lines Limited. I suspect that this is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Carnival Corporation and plc.

If, hypothetically, a booking in the US was taken by Carnival plc, a UK-resident passenger whose booking was refused on the grounds of residence could well have a claim against Carnival plc under the UK's Race Relations Act for indirect race discrimination on the grounds of nationality. (This would qualify under the Act, because discriminating against UK residents in favour of US residents will almost certainly disproportionately affect UK nationals adversely when compared to US nationals.)

The fact that US bookings are taken by a different company may have the effect of reducing the risk of such a claim being brought against Carnival plc in the UK - whether this was an intentional or inadvertent effect, I don't know. But I think the fact that Sea Princess (heavily marketed to UK passengers), and Dawn Princess and Sun Princess (heavily marketed to Australian passengers), are operated by divisions of Carnival plc is no coincidence.

However, if Princess Cruise Lines Limited is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Carnival Corporation and plc, it may be difficult for Carnival plc to wash its hands of the indirect race discrimination being conducted by Princess Cruise Lines Limited, over whose policies it has control.

So:-

1. If Princess is reading this thread, you know you have a vulnerability.
2. If anyone wants to have a go at this one, you are welcome to take up these ideas.

So please tell me how this would be considered racial discrimination??

Section 3(1): " 'racial grounds' means any of the following grounds, namely colour, race, nationality or ethnic or national origins."

That's "direct race discrimination". The definition of "indirect race discrimination" is harder for a non-lawyer to get their brain around. (We lawyers have enough trouble with it.) But it also depends on less favourable treatment on the basis of "colour, race, nationality or ethnic or national origins".

So in the UK, discrimination on the grounds of nationality does amount to "race discrimination".

I am sorry to hear about the price increase for Aussie cruisers. It doesn't seem fair....just like life, sometimes....

If you don't want to wade through my previously posted dissertation, consider this:

 

Your Australian friends also pay significantly more for cars, gasoline, liquor, and just about everything else they use. They might want to re-phrase or re-direct their question.

Sorry, Spongerob, but your argument doesn't figure.:confused:

Australians don't pay more for cars or gas or liquor. Everyone in Australia pays more, including visitors from the US.

Likewise the price of gas in the US is the price of gas. For you or me or Crocodile Dundee. Our nationality is irrelevant.

Bar a paying customer on the grounds of their nationality or country of residence, or charge them a higher price? It's immoral & in the UK, it'd be illegal.:eek:

There's exceptions. For state-subsidised services, I can understand the local taxpayer being given a better deal. Health services for instance.

But Princess are a profit-making organisation, the nationality of the customer should be irrelevant, and I've seen nowt in this thread or elsewhere to make me believe anything other than that they are screwing non-US residents. :mad:

I'm happy to stick to UK ships - whose customers know where they stand.:)

John Bull (in Mr Angry mood)