AVOID Park West Galleries Auction at Sea

I just made the post below in another thread, but wanted to put my comments in a new thread in case someone searches on "Park West Galleries" in the title. Do a Google search on the above string and see what comes up...

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I recently returned from my first ever cruise on Explorer of the Seas and had a wonderful time! :)

Regarding the auctions being conducted by Park West Galleries, I would advise people to be very cautious. I am not an expert at appraising artwork, but I have a BFA in Art and am familiar with most known artists. My assessment of the pieces up for bidding is that most of them were prints or lithographs, and it was even unclear if many were signed by the artists (Peter Max, Dali, etc.). This auction was being conducted as though it was an amazing investment opportunity -- yet anyone can buy prints such as these at online stores, galleries, ebay, and so forth. I just sat in the back and observed other people getting caught up in the hype and bidding several thousand dollars for some pieces that I am highly skeptical are worth that much. PLEASE ... unless you are an experienced art collector and really know what you are doing, do not spend anything more that a few hundred dollars for any of the art on these cruise ship auctions.

And, if you are buying a print for $100 - $200, ask yourself: since when do you buy prints at an auction and pay the 15% premium to buy a print? After paying their charge for framing and shipping, what will the real final cost be?

Attending this auction was the only "negative" aspect of my cruise -- negative insomuch as I kind of felt bad for other folks who might have overpaid for their art purchases. Of course, all told people probably lost more money at the casino. ;)

There were several aspects of the Park West auction that were 'shady' and unlike what you'd expect at a normal art auction. My advice -- do like I did -- go and drink 2 or 3 free glasses of campaign, look at some nice prints, and if there's an artist you are interested in collecting then do some more research and be a lot more thoughtful before you make a significant investment.

I just made the post below in another thread, but wanted to put my comments in a new thread in case someone searches on "Park West Galleries" in the title. Do a Google search on the above string and see what comes up...

 

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I recently returned from my first ever cruise on Explorer of the Seas and had a wonderful time! :)

 

Regarding the auctions being conducted by Park West Galleries, I would advise people to be very cautious. I am not an expert at appraising artwork, but I have a BFA in Art and am familiar with most known artists. My assessment of the pieces up for bidding is that most of them were prints or lithographs, and it was even unclear if many were signed by the artists (Peter Max, Dali, etc.). This auction was being conducted as though it was an amazing investment opportunity -- yet anyone can buy prints such as these at online stores, galleries, ebay, and so forth. I just sat in the back and observed other people getting caught up in the hype and bidding several thousand dollars for some pieces that I am highly skeptical are worth that much. PLEASE ... unless you are an experienced art collector and really know what you are doing, do not spend anything more that a few hundred dollars for any of the art on these cruise ship auctions.

 

And, if you are buying a print for $100 - $200, ask yourself: since when do you buy prints at an auction and pay the 15% premium to buy a print? After paying their charge for framing and shipping, what will the real final cost be?

 

Attending this auction was the only "negative" aspect of my cruise -- negative insomuch as I kind of felt bad for other folks who might have overpaid for their art purchases. Of course, all told people probably lost more money at the casino. ;)

 

There were several aspects of the Park West auction that were 'shady' and unlike what you'd expect at a normal art auction. My advice -- do like I did -- go and drink 2 or 3 free glasses of campaign, look at some nice prints, and if there's an artist you are interested in collecting then do some more research and be a lot more thoughtful before you make a significant investment.

I saw that myself on a cruise several years ago. They held it in the Viking Crown lounge. There were very few people who showed up for it.

The bar was in the middle, and the bidders were seated on either side of it. Neither side could see each other from their seats. My husband and I were seated behind the few bidders on our side of the bar. They were really there to get the free drinks and did not participate at all.

A picture went up for bidding and a woman on the other side of the bar from us bid. The auctioneer looked at our side and announced that a higher bid had come from someone. He then proceeded to keep doing this. There was NO ONE BIDDING ON OUR SIDE. The poor lady on the other side of the bar was actually bidding against herself and never knew it. Of course she finally won the picture. She should have had it for the first bid. I could not believe what I saw happen.

I vowed never to get involved in that scam after seeing that happen.

We actually went to a Park West Auction on Conquest last Aug. The set-up was abviously different in that the bidders were not divided by a bar and could see each other very clearly throughout the lounge where we were seated. Although we only bought a 2 prints (we got a couple more for free) (lithographs actually) and didn't spend very much all relatively compared to some that spent over thousands of dollars. We really had a fun time. Some of these people were just hallarious to watch. We plan to do this again on upcoming cruise if we can--maybe not buy anything but just watch--and no we don't drink the free champagne either:D

I saw that myself on a cruise several years ago. They held it in the Viking Crown lounge. There were very few people who showed up for it.

 

The bar was in the middle, and the bidders were seated on either side of it. Neither side could see each other from their seats. My husband and I were seated behind the few bidders on our side of the bar. They were really there to get the free drinks and did not participate at all.

 

A picture went up for bidding and a woman on the other side of the bar from us bid. The auctioneer looked at our side and announced that a higher bid had come from someone. He then proceeded to keep doing this. There was NO ONE BIDDING ON OUR SIDE. The poor lady on the other side of the bar was actually bidding against herself and never knew it. Of course she finally won the picture. She should have had it for the first bid. I could not believe what I saw happen.

 

I vowed never to get involved in that scam after seeing that happen.

I suspected the same thing! Sitting in the very back row, I thought the auctioneer was accepting bids from someone I couldn't see. At the beginning they made a passing comment about "dealers" who were in the room and who would signal without raising a number. It all seemed very shady to me.

During the viewing hour before the auction, the "senior consultants" were stalking the room and pressuring people to place a written bid on pieces "otherwise they won't come up to auction." I wonder if folks didn't realize they were actually setting an opening bid at that point?

One consultant, named Crystal I believe, asked me if I liked any of the pieces. I pointed to a painting I liked by an artist with an impressionist style. Of course, I had scrutinized the "painting" and realized that it was a giclee, which is a high-quality reproduction that can be printed on large canvas. This particular giclee was indeed on a large canvas, and then had several dabs of paint here and there which represented accents or personalization by the artist (?), making the piece ‘unique’. As someone who has stretched many canvases and painted in many different media, it was very obvious to me what this piece really was.

Now, as far as she knew I was someone who was just an uninformed consumer, but that Park West senior consultant did not explain to me that the piece was a reproduction with a few dabs of paint (presumably by the artist, but you have to wonder...). She said the artist was "new to the gallery" and created the impression that he was a young up-and-coming artist that I should jump at the opportunity to collect. She came back later and said I could place an opening bid of $1800 for that painting.

Now, the giclee in question was a Venice scene by Marko Mavrovich, who is not a new up-and-comer, but is in fact an established artist who has been around for many years. As I said earlier, I am not pretending to be an expert art appraiser, so that quoted price may be somewhat reasonable for a Marko Mavrovich reproduction on canvas, but I highly doubt it!

Unfortunately, most people don't pay a lot of attention to the rules at these auctions. If you listen to them, some pieces have a reserve. The auctionier CAN and does bid against a single bidder until the reserve is met. Of course, the only person that knows the reserve is the auction house so you really wouldn't know if they're uping the price or not. Personally, I refuse to bid against the house.

Park West is what it is, a seller of reproduces prints and lithographs. IMO you're buying a picture of a picture. This isn't a whole lot different than going into one of Thomas Kincaid's galleries and purchasing one of his lithographs that have been touched up by another artist (highlighter).

If you're purchasing art as an investment and you don't know what you're doing, you're probably going to get burnt. If you're purchasing one of these pieces because you like the work and the price is reasonable in your opinion, then you're doing just fine.

We have three lithographs from Park West at home. Two Thomas Kincaid works and another one from an artist I can't recall the name of. It was a print we won just for being there. My wife liked it so we took it and paid the $35 shipping.

To date we have not had Park West frame any of the works we've purchased. We can do as well at home and have more to choose from. I can also be more selective of the matting and type of glass (if any) I want the work put under.

I sse nothing wrong with the art auctions and don't feel they need to be avoided. If people aren't smart enough to remember the term "Let the buyer beware" and they think they're getting a "valuable" work of art on the cheap then so be it. I have three lovely prints/lithographs that we enjoy and have spent less than $300 with Park West. The framing actually has cost us more than the pictures.

We purchased a signed Jim Davis lithograph onboard Song of America in 98. It is one of the Rockwell self portraits with Garfield the cat. No one bid against us and it was $80 plus shipping. We had it framed at home and thouroughly enjoy it. Park West has come up several times and so I searched online, and the same lithograph in the series is now going for $500 unframed. So we are happy with our purchase.

We tend to try many cruise ship things "once" . Art auction, murder mystery dinner, etc. It's always fun, but not something we would necessarily do again. I don't think Park West is a scam any more than any other auction is a scam.:)

Why not buy pieces from local artists?

You can then get an original, one-of-a-kind piece rather than a print and support a local artist who probably need the money a lot more than an auction house selling prints.

From 1996 thru 2001 we bought at least one print from them, and usually more, each cruise. Usually we paid 30-75 per print, plus the shipping charge. For what we got I feel we paid a reasonable price, the shipping charge ($25) is the same for 1-5 prints, so the more inexpensive prints bought, the less the apportioned shipping charge. I have 4 signed and numbered Krasnansky cubist mardi-gras prints for $300 total including s&h in a nice 5'x8' grouping and even dw, a non-believer at first, has grown to like them.

We stopped buying when we ran out of wall space, I have lots of my own photos mounted on the walls as well.

We have bought many, many pieces of art on our cruises from Park West and never had a problem or were taken advantage of.All of our experiences have been on the plus side:D

In general art is not a good investment for someone who is a casual collector. You either need more money than God or luck and an education to do well.

Does that mean you should not buy it? Nope. Buy what you love, what speaks to you. Hang the art on your wall and appreciate it. Art for investment? You are probably better off buying real estate. I am not coming up with this on my own, but I'll be danged if I can remember where I got it. It's been in the brain trap for a long time, so I suspect college.

My best friend bought some art on the Brilliance last summer. When she got back home after waiting 8 weeks for the paintings to be shipped she was notified that they were "not available" common, they know onboard their inventory. What a hassle she had to go thru to get some satisfatory resolution.

We purchased a signed Jim Davis lithograph onboard Song of America in 98. It is one of the Rockwell self portraits with Garfield the cat. No one bid against us and it was $80 plus shipping. We had it framed at home and thouroughly enjoy it. Park West has come up several times and so I searched online, and the same lithograph in the series is now going for $500 unframed. So we are happy with our purchase.

 

We tend to try many cruise ship things "once" . Art auction, murder mystery dinner, etc. It's always fun, but not something we would necessarily do again. I don't think Park West is a scam any more than any other auction is a scam.:)

I don't mean to suggest that Park West Galleries are total crooks or that anyone should feel bad about paying a few hundred dollars for a print signed by an established artist or cartoonist. But, people should be cautious and careful -- the Park West auctioneer would have no problem bidding someone up to 2 or 3 times what a piece is worth on the market. He/she would still sleep very soundly at night and be very happy to pocket any extra commission they might get.

Clearly $80 for a print signed by Jim Davis is a good value, just as $80 for a signed baseball by a star major league player would be a great price. But, the auction I attended had a signed Jim Davis lithograph from the "Garfield Visits Rockwell" series and one of the Park West people offered to me that I could set an opening bid of $100 for it (even though I didn't convey any interest other than the fact that I was standing near that print looking at some animation cells).

Do people realize that those Jim Davis lithographs are available by the thousands on the market and are not limited in any way (they will surely continue to be produced and signed by Jim Davis for many decades while he is still around to do so). So, might someone get caught up in the excitement and hype and bid up the price to three or four hundred dollars for the unframed print? I just did a quick internet search and found signed & unframed "Garfield Visits Rockwell" prints for $289, without having to pay a 15% premium. Another signed print from that series is on ebay with a "Buy It Now" price of $280. Could I get one for $200 or a bit less if I was patient and searched the web for a few weeks looking for the best price? Probably. And that's my major point -- that you don't need to buy reproductions like that at an auction unless you're getting a really good deal like $80 to $100 for one of the Jim Davis signed prints as an example.

Maybe I should alter the title of this thread to take out "AVOID" as that might be overstating it a bit. But it's shorter than "be careful" or "proceed with caution." ;)

In general art is not a good investment for someone who is a casual collector. You either need more money than God or luck and an education to do well.

 

Does that mean you should not buy it? Nope. Buy what you love, what speaks to you. Hang the art on your wall and appreciate it. Art for investment? You are probably better off buying real estate. I am not coming up with this on my own, but I'll be danged if I can remember where I got it. It's been in the brain trap for a long time, so I suspect college.

That is very wise advice. :)

I jokingly refer to my home as Park West --- South. We have numerous works that we have purchased on board as well as many that we have won in the raffles. I have never felt taken advantage of, and I certainly do not think that the art auctions are a scam. Just like everything else, one should do your homework. You should know the difference between a print and a serigraph; and if you don't, ask someone or research it. Having said that though, I will also say that the on board art should always, I repeat, always be bought because you love a piece. As someone else said, ...because it speaks to you. Just as with an expensive piece of jewelry, unless you are an expert, never buy it for an investment.

As for the "consultants" walking around before the auction, they are there to answer your questions. I have had many stimulating conversations with them. However, they are also there to stir up interest and to sell art! Come on people, this is a business, they work on commission! The auction is not there just for your amusement. Have you never gone into a store before and had a salesperson try to interest you in a particular item? There is nothing sinister here. It's their job!

I like the analogy a previous poster made between the art auction and the casino. I agree, at least I have something to bring home. I have a home full of beautiful pieces I love. As an added bonus, I can look at each piece and remember a wonderful cruise and all the fun I had at that auction.

Interesting that this topic comes up. We just got off a cruise and my wife bought four prints at the auction. A friend of hers bought some of a particular painter from a previous cruise. My wife researched the painter and prices of particular prints and went to the auction with an idea of what she wanted. She bought two of the prints for a price she thought was very good and was offered two more at a similar price when she went to pay for the first two.

I noticed that there was a "buyers premium" added to the auction price. When I checked the other two she was buying outright, they had added a "buyer's premium" to those two. I quashed the deal until they removed the premium arguing that the buyer's premium only applied to the auction. I refused to sign the standard contract until they revised it.

All in all it came to just over $1200 which included shipping, framing, and taxes. Add another couple hundred for framing and shipping of two prints my daughter "won" in the raffle.

We are now waiting for the prints to arrive and my wife is going through severe buyers remorse having gotten caught up in the action and buying more than she intended. My feeling is that she got a good deal for what she got, but of course we really didn't need 4 prints. Two of the prints will most likely be gifts to each set of our parents.

I would suggest that if one goes to the auction they should know what they want and what the prices are in regular art gallaries. They should then weigh that with the cost of shipping and framing and taxes and the buyer's premium and the pressure and hassle of buying it. If it is still a real good deal, go for it. If not or just a small savings walk away.

It sure is easy to figure out which posters have bought art from Park West. Defenders of the faith...

Personally I wish they would move the auctions out of the Centrum to some more intimate place, like the engine room.

LL

Personally I wish they would move the auctions out of the Centrum to some more intimate place, like the engine room.

 

LL

Yeah, me too..;)

It sure is easy to figure out which posters have bought art from Park West. Defenders of the faith...

 

Personally I wish they would move the auctions out of the Centrum to some more intimate place, like the engine room.

 

LL

My best laugh of the day. :D

the Park West auctioneer would have no problem bidding someone up to 2 or 3 times what a piece is worth on the market. He/she would still sleep very soundly at night and be very happy to pocket any extra commission they might get.............

Do people realize that those Jim Davis lithographs are available by the thousands on the market and are not limited in any way (they will surely continue to be produced and signed by Jim Davis for many decades while he is still around to do so). So, might someone get caught up in the excitement and hype and bid up the price to three or four hundred dollars for the unframed print? I just did a quick internet search and found signed & unframed "Garfield Visits Rockwell" prints for $289, without having to pay a 15% premium. Another signed print from that series is on ebay with a "Buy It Now" price of $280. Could I get one for $200 or a bit less if I was patient and searched the web for a few weeks looking for the best price? Probably. And that's my major point -- that you don't need to buy reproductions like that at an auction unless you're getting a really good deal like $80 to $100 for one of the Jim Davis signed prints as an example.

Maybe I should alter the title of this thread to take out "AVOID" as that might be overstating it a bit. But it's shorter than "be careful" or "proceed with caution." ;)

This happens all the time at auctions. I've seen people pay a lot more than something's worth just because they get caught up in the auction. It happens on E-bay as well. Of course the auctioneer will sleep well. That's his or her job. To get the best price for the piece or parcel he or she is selling. That's why it's an auction and not a yard sale, garage sale or estate sale. It's an attempt to get more money for something than just putting a price on it and setting it out for sale.

Do people realize that they're over paying for something? I doubt it or they wouldn't do it. That's why the phrase let the buyer beware has been around so long.

It sure is easy to figure out which posters have bought art from Park West. Defenders of the faith...

 

Personally I wish they would move the auctions out of the Centrum to some more intimate place, like the engine room.

 

LL

I suppose you could say that about things like Bingo, napkin folding classes, cooking demonstrations, quest, the love and marriage show et......

There will always be some people who like something and other that don't like it. Granted when they hold things in the centrum (it's not just for art auctions), it's harder to avoid but the engine room might be a little tough for a cooking demonstration.

I go to the park west auctions a lot, but I'll probably stop going. I never bought anything, but got two free prints that are really nice and it only cost the $35 shipping charge. There is a lot of psychology at play here and I love watching it unfold. If you have been on multiple cruises, you see that they are "selling" nothing special as they pretty much all have the same stuff. Some of the stuff is unique to some extent, but most isn't.

I just feel bad for the first time cruisers that don't realize that there are 100's of cruise ships which means 100s of auctions each week and they never have a shortage of stuff to sell. If you wanna buy it, I don't care. However, I would echo two other posts, check ebay and local artists. I got a really great oil on canvas of a Venice scene for like $10. No clue who the artist is, its signed but hard to read, but who cares. Also got an oil on canvas at a flea market for $15 which is huge and really nice looking. I was just showed at how nice it is. I could care less if was paint by numbers, but it doesn't look to be at all, looks really well done and its not a print.

Hopefully my ramblings added something.

People who buy art at cruise ship actions must be the same people who buy the souveniers, logo wear and watches that are supposedly "on sale" at the end of each cruise...

People who buy art at cruise ship actions must be the same people who buy the souveniers, logo wear and watches that are supposedly "on sale" at the end of each cruise...

Maybe I can get rid of all those floppy disks on my next cruise? :p

I am not a "defender" nor advocate...I have bought and not bought from these auctions! One... Art is in the eye of the beholder...buy it because you like not because what "it's" worth. Two... So what if you paid $60 Da** dollars, feel great about it and know you have a litho you adore, not $60 you were hoaked into buying. Yes, that's one hand in blackjack for me. So now as opposed to maybe a bust I have a print I like in my hall. I really don't think it's a scam of sort or misleading...but like anything, once you know someone else wants it, you get caught up in the hype and want it more, if it interest you the least little bit. Heck..I want one of those pina coladas floating around the pool deck in those cool glasses...and guess what I NEVER drink one back home...go figure...hype!

And BTW, there's A LOT of silly things that go on cruise ships that I think should take place in the engine room...but guess what??? That's what cruises are ALL about something for EVERYONE! And not always for you! :)