Why are all the ships registered out of the U.S.?

[spongerob]

I think there might be some confusion between the requirements for registry and the provisions of the PVSA that restrict transportation of passengers between US ports. I don't think there is a requirement for a ship to be built in the US to be registered here. PVSA does add the requirement that cruise ships have to be built in the US in order to transport passengers between US ports while avoiding all the stupid rules and conditions in the act that govern foreign-flagged vessels.

[smeyer418]

I think there might be some confusion between the requirements for registry and the provisions of the PVSA that restrict transportation of passengers between US ports. I don't think there is a requirement for a ship to be built in the US to be registered here. PVSA does add the requirement that cruise ships have to be built in the US in order to transport passengers between US ports while avoiding all the stupid rules and conditions in the act that govern foreign-flagged vessels.

The ship has to be built in the US(I think the requirement is actually 80% US built to be US flagged), the reflagging of the the one NCL ship was a special exemption- a one of event. There have been numerous complaints filed against US ships that have had work done over seas. Its ok to repair them overseas but if you add new equipment or replace part of the hull it can cause a US built ship to be disqualified as a US ship.

 

here is the statement US built and US owned

The Jones Act (46 U.S.C. 883, 19CFR 4.80 and 4.80b) requires that merchandise being transported by water between U.S. points must travel in U.S.-built and U.S.-citizen owned vessels that are documented by the U.S. Coast Guard for such carriage.

 

 

http://www.marad.dot.gov/ships_shipping_landing_page/domestic_shipping/Domestic_Shipping.htm

 

It really isn't that hard to research this.

[smeyer418]

I realize this says merchandise but there is an equivalent statement about Passenger vessels too but the 15 minutes expired before I found it.

 

http://www.marad.dot.gov/ships_shipping_landing_page/domestic_shipping/small_vessel_waiver/Small_Vessel_Waiver.htm

 

there is a waiver available for passenger vessels that transport less than 12 people...so if it is larger the requirement still exists....

[spongerob]

http://www.marad.dot.gov/ships_shipping_landing_page/domestic_shipping/Domestic_Shipping.htm

 

It really isn't that hard to research this.

The Jones Act and PVSA govern the transportation of goods and passengers between US ports. It has nothing to do with actual registry.

 

Case in point, M/V Liberty Sun is a US-registered ship, and was involved in the famous attempted piracy attempt that resulted in the capture of her captain and the eventual target practice performed by Navy Seals, but was built by Hyundai in Korea.

 

Research...you should try it! It helps get facts straight.

 

http://www.libertymar.com/ships/specs/sunp.html :p

[smeyer418]

The Jones Act and PVSA govern the transportation of goods and passengers between US ports. It has nothing to do with actual registry.

 

Case in point, M/V Liberty Sun is a US-registered ship, and was involved in the famous attempted piracy attempt that resulted in the capture of her captain and the eventual target practice performed by Navy Seals, but was built by Hyundai in Korea.

 

Research...you should try it! It helps get facts straight.

 

http://www.libertymar.com/ships/specs/sunp.html :p

? unless they have an exemption US law both the PSVA and the Jones act require US flagged ships to be built in the US. What is a US registered ship? do you mean US Flagged? There are some exceptions. The Eagle a coast guard ship was originally a German ship. I showed you the law. The only reason for US registry/flag is to transport inside the US or US military goods(which by law have to be sent on US Flagged ships)....

sometimes special laws are passed(a la NCL) but the general US shipping law for goods or passengers require US built ships for US flags.

 

None of the ships show US building. the law is clear but so is where these were built...

 

I think what I learned was that if the ships aren't transporting between two US ports(coastwise trading) They can be foreign built and American Flagged. Interesting but it still means that to transport people or goods between two different US ports(without going to a distant foreign port) you have to be US flagged and US built.

[smeyer418]

? unless they have an exemption US law both the PSVA and the Jones act require US flagged ships to be built in the US. What is a US registered ship? do you mean US Flagged? There are some exceptions. The Eagle a coast guard ship was originally a German ship. I showed you the law. The only reason for US registry/flag is to transport inside the US or US military goods(which by law have to be sent on US Flagged ships)....

sometimes special laws are passed(a la NCL) but the general US shipping law for goods or passengers require US built ships for US flags.

 

None of the ships show US building. the law is clear but so is where these were built...

 

I think what I learned was that if the ships aren't transporting between two US ports(coastwise trading) They can be foreign built and American Flagged. Interesting but it still means that to transport people or goods between two different US ports(without going to a distant foreign port) you have to be US flagged and US built.

 

I think I understand why commercial ships would do this as you can't carry US military goods or some US departments material unless you are US flagged but why would a cruise line traveling exclusively to the same ports as a foreign flagged ship want to do this?(US flagged and not be able to do coastwise passenger service). Was the roll on roll off ship that used to carry cars between NY and Florida built in the US or some place else---if any one knows.

[Philip217]

The original regulation required that only ships built in the USA, and staffed by American Crews, could have an American flag on the stern.

 

Then Americans forgot how to build cruise ships. When the Ingalls shipyard went bankrupt trying to build the 2 new ships for American Hawaii, the taxpayers took quite a bath when the US Government financed this mess with your tax dollars.

 

When NCL tried to get another American shipyard to finish the 2 hulls, nobody wanted the job. So Congress changed the regulations to state that if a ship's keel was laid in the USA - but the building was finished in another country - it could still have an American flag. NCL made the first partially completed hull watertight and towed to to Germany for completion.

 

The original hull was so poorly built that the Germans wanted to take it apart and start over again. NCL balked at the cost. A compromise was reached. They would add concrete ballast to the original hull to make it more seaworthy. In the process of doing this, a freak storm came up, water entered the floating hull, and it sank in the Bremerhaven shipyard.

 

NCL suddenly had no American Flag ship to sail to Hawaii. Congress changed the regulations again. They allowed NCL to re-flag an entirely foreign-built ship with an American flag to allow them to start up the operation in Hawaii.

 

Then NCL couldn't find enough qualified Americans to man the ship. So Congress changed the regulations again to state that only 75% of the crew had to be American; the other 25% could carry a Green Card.

 

Then NCL had to get the second ship built. The steel had been cut at the now defunct American shipyard, but nothing had been put together yet. There were still no American shipyards willing to build the ship. So Congress changed the regulations again. If the steel for a ship had been cut in the USA, the keel and everything else could be constructed abroad and ship could still be flagged American. NCL piled everything onto barges, towed it all to Germany and had it built over there.

 

NCL still could not find enough qualified Americans to work on the three American ships. Congress changed the regulations again, to allow a higher percentage of foreign born workers to man the American ships.

 

Despite the PVSA, the American ships still could not compete successfully against foreign flag cruise ships in Hawaii. NCL removed one "American-built" ship (Pride of Hawaii)from Hawaii, re-flagged it to Bahamas, and put an international crew onboard. They also removed the foreign built ship (Pride of Aloha) that had been re-flagged American, re-flagged it to Bahamas, and put an international crew onboard. (One of the lesser-known rules established by Congress stated that if these specially flagged "American ships" were to change flags again, Congress would not allow them to change back to American flags in future. Considering the number of times that Congress has changed the rules already, they can probably switch flags whenever they feel like it.)

 

The fate of the Pride of America, the only remaining operating American Flag cruise ship that was at least partially built in the USA, remains to be seen.

[happy cruzer]

Thanks for taking the time to post, Philip.

 

very interesting reading.

[McGarrett]

The original regulation required that only ships built in the USA, and staffed by American Crews, could have an American flag on the stern.

 

Then Americans forgot how to build cruise ships. When the Ingalls shipyard went bankrupt trying to build the 2 new ships for American Hawaii, the taxpayers took quite a bath when the US Government financed this mess with your tax dollars.

 

When NCL tried to get another American shipyard to finish the 2 hulls, nobody wanted the job. So Congress changed the regulations to state that if a ship's keel was laid in the USA - but the building was finished in another country - it could still have an American flag. NCL made the first partially completed hull watertight and towed to to Germany for completion.

 

 

The original hull was so poorly built that the Germans wanted to take it apart and start over again. NCL balked at the cost. A compromise was reached. They would add concrete ballast to the original hull to make it more seaworthy. In the process of doing this, a freak storm came up, water entered the floating hull, and it sank in the Bremerhaven shipyard.

 

NCL suddenly had no American Flag ship to sail to Hawaii. Congress changed the regulations again. They allowed NCL to re-flag an entirely foreign-built ship with an American flag to allow them to start up the operation in Hawaii.

 

Then NCL couldn't find enough qualified Americans to man the ship. So Congress changed the regulations again to state that only 75% of the crew had to be American; the other 25% could carry a Green Card.

 

Then NCL had to get the second ship built. The steel had been cut at the now defunct American shipyard, but nothing had been put together yet. There were still no American shipyards willing to build the ship. So Congress changed the regulations again. If the steel for a ship had been cut in the USA, the keel and everything else could be constructed abroad and ship could still be flagged American. NCL piled everything onto barges, towed it all to Germany and had it built over there.

 

NCL still could not find enough qualified Americans to work on the three American ships. Congress changed the regulations again, to allow a higher percentage of foreign born workers to man the American ships.

 

Despite the PVSA, the American ships still could not compete successfully against foreign flag cruise ships in Hawaii. NCL removed one "American-built" ship (Pride of Hawaii)from Hawaii, re-flagged it to Bahamas, and put an international crew onboard. They also removed the foreign built ship (Pride of Aloha) that had been re-flagged American, re-flagged it to Bahamas, and put an international crew onboard. (One of the lesser-known rules established by Congress stated that if these specially flagged "American ships" were to change flags again, Congress would not allow them to change back to American flags in future. Considering the number of times that Congress has changed the rules already, they can probably switch flags whenever they feel like it.)

 

The fate of the Pride of America, the only remaining operating American Flag cruise ship that was at least partially built in the USA, remains to be seen.

 

Great info. Thank you. :)

[Monkeythyme]

and U.S. Labor Laws. If they were flagged US' date=' they'd have to obey all employee minimum wage and employee laws, OSHA, workday limitations, overtime, pay payroll taxes, etc.[/quote']

 

Ah, yes. The land of the free. Free lunch.:D

[Monkeythyme]

I was just coming here to post how its the same with the airlines but you beat me to it! If Singapore Airlines for example was allowed to fly NYC-LAX then their service would run any US airline on that route out of business. These are good laws to have.

 

Whether the laws are good depends on whether you are an airline employee / executive, or a consumer. Opinions may vary.:rolleyes:

[McGarrett]

whether the laws are good depends on whether you are an airline employee / executive, or a consumer. Opinions may vary.:rolleyes:

 

+1.

[McGarrett]

I'm thinking they may have home port names like Hong Kong and Shanghai soon. ;)

[Cruzaholic41]

I think I understand why commercial ships would do this as you can't carry US military goods or some US departments material unless you are US flagged but why would a cruise line traveling exclusively to the same ports as a foreign flagged ship want to do this?(US flagged and not be able to do coastwise passenger service). Was the roll on roll off ship that used to carry cars between NY and Florida built in the US or some place else---if any one knows.

 

U.S. flagged vessels (documented, not state registered) are required to have U.S. citizens in all key leadership positions. This includes Captain, First Mate, Staff Captain, Chief Engineer, etc, etc. This means more $$$, unions, collective bargaining, etc.