Travel agency bankrupt-what happens next?

[ptsaint]

full thread is here

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1081681

[MHJSMM]

Anyone who has been affected by eCruisestore should file a complaint with Florida Dept. of Ag. and Consumer Services.

 

http://www.800helpfla.com/complnt.html

[ptsaint]

Anyone who has been affected by eCruisestore should file a complaint with Florida Dept. of Ag. and Consumer Services.

 

http://www.800helpfla.com/complnt.html

 

thanks will do

[cruiseco]

By the way, what is CLIA?

 

CLIA is the "Cruise Line Industry Association". It was founded by the major cruise lines as a way to provide educational seminars to cruise travel agents. They hand out various certification to those who take the courses, such as MCC -- Master Cruise Counselor. It also means that CLIA agents (even small independents working out of their home) can start to book their clients directly with the cruise lines. Once they have been issued an ID number the cruise lines will normally take them on as agents with no additional checks. Here's their stated goal: "CLIA is the world’s largest cruise association and is dedicated to the promotion and growth of the cruise industry." Note that there is nothing there about consumer protection. It's all about making more money for the cruise lines by making travel agents better sellers of cruises.

 

Everyone who pays to join gets to use the logo on their window if they have a storefront and the logo on their web page. Again, this makes it appear that the agency or agent has somehow been "approved" by the cruise line industry. CLIA never has and never will establish some sort of professional code of ethics. They never have and never will have some sort of complaint process. They never have and never will step in and advocate on behalf of a consumer who has been treated unfairly by one of their members. To the best of my knowledge, the only way to get kicked out of CLIA is to have your check bounce. That's fine, of course. Better to not pretend to be a consumer advocate at all than to be a poor one. But they let their members get away with implying to clients who don't know better that a membership in CLIA is more than it really is. And I'm sure tens of thousands of cruisers book every year with agencies they know nothing about because the CLIA "seal of approval" is splashed all over the agency's web site and they think that it means someone else has done some basic checking on the agency so they don't have to.

[WatchHill]

SMeyer - Having trouble accessing the gov't site. When did this polilcy come into effect? I am curious if this is the same entity under which I filed when Premier went under and left crew, clients and TA's without compensation. Never got a cent in return.

In the early 80's we booked a cruise through a MA TA who took off with the deposit and final payment. HAL helped us out in the end, but never received any compensation from the agency which disavowed any employee/employer relationship with the TA. MA's AG's office and BBB were useless; Cruiseco - you are on the money with your comments about CLIA. To make matters worse, this particular TA was the sister of DH's best friend and as we later found, had a file drawer of complaints against her in district court. It was a costly learning experience for us.

 

So, now we use a cruise specialist, who has a store front business, and is also a neighbor. The best perk is knowing when we escape during a winter snow storm, the driveway will be clear of snow upon our return. - better that an OBC or bottle of wine!

 

Darcy

[smeyer418]

SMeyer - Having trouble accessing the gov't site. When did this polilcy come into effect? I am curious if this is the same entity under which I filed when Premier went under and left crew, clients and TA's without compensation. Never got a cent in return.

In the early 80's we booked a cruise through a MA TA who took off with the deposit and final payment. HAL helped us out in the end, but never received any compensation from the agency which disavowed any employee/employer relationship with the TA. MA's AG's office and BBB were useless; Cruiseco - you are on the money with your comments about CLIA. To make matters worse, this particular TA was the sister of DH's best friend and as we later found, had a file drawer of complaints against her in district court. It was a costly learning experience for us.

 

So, now we use a cruise specialist, who has a store front business, and is also a neighbor. The best perk is knowing when we escape during a winter snow storm, the driveway will be clear of snow upon our return. - better that an OBC or bottle of wine!

 

Darcy

 

its http://www.fmc.gov

 

but it would not pay if the money had not been turned over to the cruise line. Its only if the cruise lines goes belly up. Its been in effect for years.

 

here is the quote from about us

 

http://www.fmc.gov/about/index.asp

 

• Ensures passenger vessel operators demonstrate adequate financial responsibility for casualty and non-performance. emphasis added

 

 

 

 

I know the cruise lines disclaim any legal agent relationship(the principal is responsible for the acts of their agents). the cruise lines claim the TA is your agent not theirs. I don't agree but the cases don't agree with me either.

[smeyer418]

§ 44102. Financial responsibility to indemnify passengers for nonperformance of transportation

(a) FILING REQUIREMENT.—A person in the United States may not arrange, offer, advertise, or provide transportation on a vessel to which this chapter applies unless the person has filed with the Federal Maritime Commission evidence of financial responsibility to indemnify passengers for nonperformance of the transportation.

(b) SATISFACTORY EVIDENCE.—To satisfy subsection (a), a person must file—

(1) information the Commission considers necessary; or

(2) a copy of a bond or other security, in such form as the Commission by regulation may require.

© AUTHORIZED ISSUER OF BOND.—If a bond is filed, it must be issued by a bonding company authorized to do business in the United States.

 

 

this is the section under which the ships post a bond to pay back the passengers in case of bankruptcy- Its my understanding that all the foreign flagged cruise lines must post a surety bond.

 

It doesn't cover the crew and I don't know how long this has been in effect other than more than 20 years.

[WatchHill]

SMeyer, Thanks for the update. I found an old folder with my Premier documentation filed with the courts in NYC when the the line and the SeaBreeze went under. Apparently pax fall further down the food chain than vendors, etc., for compensation. Like most bankruptcy filings, consumers are the last to receive anything. It was only a couple of hundred dollars for a weekend cruise, and I can be glad I did not have a cruise booked with Royal, Regency or Renaissance when they folded.

 

Darcy

[smeyer418]

SMeyer, Thanks for the update. I found an old folder with my Premier documentation filed with the courts in NYC when the the line and the SeaBreeze went under. Apparently pax fall further down the food chain than vendors, etc., for compensation. Like most bankruptcy filings, consumers are the last to receive anything. It was only a couple of hundred dollars for a weekend cruise, and I can be glad I did not have a cruise booked with Royal, Regency or Renaissance when they folded.

 

Darcy

the bond is for the passengers only so no one to share it with. In a bankruptcy general creditors are treated the same. Secured creditors go first as do other priority claims. generally vendors are just general creditors but the law does change and it may have been different then.

 

sometimes deposits by passengers are considered trust funds and are paid FIRST after they pay the lawyers....

[LHT28]

new information on Trip Advisor in Miami forum

seems the scammers run several companies

[manmtnmike]

new information on Trip Advisor in Miami forum

seems the scammers run several companies

Here's the link for the particulars naming names and giving addresses:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g34438-i92-k1374357-o190-ECruisestore_com_has_anyone_used_them_to_book_a_cruise-Miami_Florida.html

[yogi2929]

A friend has a brick & mortar agency and I asked her about these type of situations.

 

California TA's all pay into an insurance fund that kicks in when a TA goes under. The fund is used for the benefit of California residents who use a California TA. Same idea as the FDIC is for banks. Good reason to keep it local. It covers fraud also.

 

Any other states do this?

[patseacruiser]

When you book you make sure that your payment is going to the cruise line and then you can call your credit card company to make sure it went to the cruise line. If it did not then cancel that charge immediately.

[sail7seas]

Booked a cruise through Premier waaaay back in 2000 or early 2001. (Blame my memory). It was on the old HAL Rembrandt for a 7-night Western. Really cheap! Paid in full with my CC. Bought Travelguard. Got a call a couple of weeks later from Premier saying the ship had been chartered by the DOD. I'm like, "What?" Why does the Department of Defense need this ship? At that time, Travelguard had the "potential bankruptcy" exclusion, but Premier was not on it! (RyanAir was. Still flying). Anyway, I declined booking a future cruise, and received a full refund on my CC within a couple of weeks from Premier. A few weeks later, Premier Cruise Lines was no more. Didn't have to make a claim through Travelguard, but if I did, I would have been covered. Regal, Premier, and Commodore went belly-up within a few months of each other, and I'm sure the travel insurance companies took a big hit. Renaissance soon followed. Which is why they all changed their policy coverage pretty quickly. The fine print became smaller and longer, and added more exclusions. Still does. Windjammer divebombed, leaving thousands of pax out of many, many thousands of dollars (due to greedy and reckless siblings, IMO). You put your trust into an agency or a cruise line, and just never know what might happen. I'd say it's all about money, but I'd probably be right. Just my thoughts and experiences.

 

 

I know this is an old post and all that but I noticed you mentioned HAL Rembrandt but it was never that.

 

HAL's much loved Rotterdam V was sold to Premier and they named the ship Rembrandt. I hate for it to possibly look like HAL had the problems when rather it was the now gone Premier Cruise Line.

[Hlitner]

We are going to try to carefully tiptoe through the CC posting rules and hope the mod gives us a little leeway. Regarding Museum, you are in good shape since the money was already handled by your cruise line so you have no problems. Costa will either handle your booking directly or they might suggest transferring it to another TA, but either way you are fine with no concerns. Now, as to Cruise Complete, folks need to be cognizant that this is simply a kind of clearing house for multiple TAs. The fact that a TA may, or may not be part of that kind of consortium is meaningless as far as the quality or financial viabliity of the various agencies. We always suggest that cruisers check out any TA throught the Better Business Bureau (they have a national website where you can run a BBB check on any company for free) but even that is not a guarantee of financial viability. The protection for financial failure is to do what Museum did which is to simply use a major credit card. I would add that we ourselves got caught in a bankruptcy years ago when a cruise line went bankrupt with over $5000 of our money and it just took a quick call to AMEX to have all of our money quickly refunded. One nice thing about AMEX is that they handled this quickly (within 2 days) and we only had to make a phone call. We think the normal procedure for other credit cards (Visa and MC) is that you must send a written request.

 

Hank

[imsulin]

I know this is an old post and all that but I noticed you mentioned HAL Rembrandt but it was never that.

 

HAL's much loved Rotterdam V was sold to Premier and they named the ship Rembrandt. I hate for it to possibly look like HAL had the problems when rather it was the now gone Premier Cruise Line.

 

Thanks SO much for your post, Sail! You're absolutely right! When I booked this Premier cruise, I was actually told it was the HAL Rembrandt. Long story...I was a retired teacher who worked as a TA for several years afterwards, and Premier had GREAT deals...but always referred to this ship as "the old HAL Rembrandt". Sounded Dutch. I now know it wasn't a HAL thing. I've posted many times that HAL is my favorite cruise line! Thanks for your post!

[imsulin]

We are going to try to carefully tiptoe through the CC posting rules and hope the mod gives us a little leeway. Regarding Museum, you are in good shape since the money was already handled by your cruise line so you have no problems. Costa will either handle your booking directly or they might suggest transferring it to another TA, but either way you are fine with no concerns. Now, as to Cruise Complete, folks need to be cognizant that this is simply a kind of clearing house for multiple TAs. The fact that a TA may, or may not be part of that kind of consortium is meaningless as far as the quality or financial viabliity of the various agencies. We always suggest that cruisers check out any TA throught the Better Business Bureau (they have a national website where you can run a BBB check on any company for free) but even that is not a guarantee of financial viability. The protection for financial failure is to do what Museum did which is to simply use a major credit card. I would add that we ourselves got caught in a bankruptcy years ago when a cruise line went bankrupt with over $5000 of our money and it just took a quick call to AMEX to have all of our money quickly refunded. One nice thing about AMEX is that they handled this quickly (within 2 days) and we only had to make a phone call. We think the normal procedure for other credit cards (Visa and MC) is that you must send a written request.

 

Hank

 

I think it was Cruise Compete. (Not Complete) I remember that fiasco!

[Hlitner]

I think it was Cruise Compete. (Not Complete) I remember that fiasco!

 

You are correct.

 

Hank

[imsulin]

You are correct.

 

Hank

 

Thanks, Hank! Wasn't that something!! And then, there was the demise of Windjammer....lots of people lost lots of money! BTW - I enjoy your posts, and you always have excellent advice!

[barante]

Late last year I posted our situation. I'm afraid I never reported how it was resolved. Very simply, MasterCard reimbursed the final payment to us that the bankrupt had not made to Celebrity. At this point, I probably could have finalized the existing booking through another agency that had taken over the bankrupt agency's bookings.

A funny thing had happened in the meantime. The price of our original mid-January cruise was actually nearly as high as the Christmas/New Year sailing out of Baltimore on the Mercury. After I realized that I could get a choice inside on the running track level I simply canceled the original booking and bought the holiday cruise. It was quite wonderful. Wish we could always cruise during Christmas and New Year.

The bottom line: Credit card companies get quite heap of grief over their banditry in interest rates and other charges. But in situations like mine they are the best guardian of the cruiser's interersts.