Completely OT, re: NW pilots

[CruisinManiac]

I thought I was crazy. :rolleyes: Found the thread on the main RCCL board when I first posted this morning.

[alwayshappytocruise]

Actually I just noticed that it is back on the RCI board from the Floataway lounge. Maybe the mods decided that they didn't want to see the thread floataway, or flyaway, after all.

 

Maybe we will pick up some new posters now.

 

Aha....it's a trick to see if we're awake or just playing on our laptops!!!!

Lynda

[ccletzgo]

I believe they're being compensated for missed connections and such as that, haven't heard anything about other compensation, although I wouldn't be surprised.

 

150 miles would have made them what? 5 Min's late? The compensation was to keep them all from whining to the media. :cool: They didn't even realize there was an issue until after they landed.

[cruiseknots]

150 miles would have made them what? 5 Min's late? The compensation was to keep them all from whining to the media. :cool: They didn't even realize there was an issue until after they landed.

 

 

150 miles past MSP means that it is 150 miles back to MSP for a total of 300 miles. This is about 40 mins of flight time when allowing for descent, slow down and vectors to the final approach course.

[temple1]

Actually I just noticed that it is back on the RCI board from the Floataway lounge. Maybe the mods decided that they didn't want to see the thread floataway, or flyaway, after all.

 

Maybe we will pick up some new posters now.

 

I'm surprised, sometimes they are over anxious to move threads - Where can I stay in FLL? But lately they've been on the RCCL Board much longer.

 

But they have inappropriately moved topics to other boards because of the title. Go figure. I did a poll on Oasis for regular folks (not directed at I must be the first to cruise Oasis folks) but like me who are ambivalent. It was moved to the Oasis board and totally ruined my unscientific poll. They wouldn't move it back either! :mad:

[buckanear]

I could be wrong about this, so maybe someone like Gary could confirm...

 

Don't most commercial airplanes have proximity warning systems? What about fuel level warnings?

[cruiseknots]

I could be wrong about this, so maybe someone like Gary could confirm...

 

Don't most commercial airplanes have proximity warning systems? What about fuel level warnings?

 

They do have a "Ground" proximity warning system (GPWS) which alert the pilots by audible voice phrases. This is for getting close to the ground without the landing gear down, wrong flap configuration, descent after take off, terrain closure such as a mountain and a few other things. This does not alert the pilots that they are about to arrive at their destination.

 

But for your second question, Yes they do have a low fuel warning that is indicated by an audible tone and several warning lights.

[buckanear]

Thank you! Is there a system that warns them that they are close to obstacles (planes, towers, mountains)?

[NoGvmnt]

this all could have been avoided if any one of them had brought their travel alarm clock along.:eek::D;)

 

Jim

[GaryfmCol]

They do have a "Ground" proximity warning system (GPWS) which alert the pilots by audible voice phrases. This is for getting close to the ground without the landing gear down, wrong flap configuration, descent after take off, terrain closure such as a mountain and a few other things. This does not alert the pilots that they are about to arrive at their destination.

 

But for your second question, Yes they do have a low fuel warning that is indicated by an audible tone and several warning lights.

 

I never saw "Low Fuel Warning" lights come on......

except, to check the bulbs on the pre-flight checklists...:D

 

(Remember..when the low fuel warning lights do come on....

that means that there is still plenty of fuel in the tanks..just

better start planning to get on the ground quickly, because you are

getting into your reserves...and, no one would want the F.A.A.

checking your fuel with those warning lights on...)

 

I had a Flight Attendant tell on a Captain I was flying with

once, when the fuel got really low (to her)...she looked at the fuel page

"checking"...and, then she ratted on us....

(She knew enough to be dangerous..)

After that, it was automatic, when ever she walked into the

"front office", we flipped the fuel page to something else, pronto...:rolleyes:

Or, propped a checklist in front of the fuel page (gauge) so

she could not see it... We fixed her...:D

[lovesublime]

They do have a "Ground" proximity warning system (GPWS) which alert the pilots by audible voice phrases. This is for getting close to the ground without the landing gear down, wrong flap configuration, descent after take off, terrain closure such as a mountain and a few other things. This does not alert the pilots that they are about to arrive at their destination.

 

But for your second question, Yes they do have a low fuel warning that is indicated by an audible tone and several warning lights.

 

 

 

 

There is also another nifty device onboard that indicates ground proximity-it's called the altimeter.

 

Sorry, but I just had to be a smarta$$ :p

[lovesublime]

Thank you! Is there a system that warns them that they are close to obstacles (planes, towers, mountains)?

 

 

 

There is a system in place to help prevent mid-air collisions. It's called TCAS and you can read about it here http://adsb.tc.faa.gov/TCAS.htm

[wraithe]

150 miles would have made them what? 5 Min's late? The compensation was to keep them all from whining to the media. :cool: They didn't even realize there was an issue until after they landed.

 

Interesting, if they'd flown straight out, straight back and were #1 to land immediately, maybe they'd have only been 40 minutes late, but they didn't fly straight out and straight back. So they were over an hour late, and I can tell you that every soul on every flight I've ever been on over the age of 10 would've realized something was wrong if the landing was over an hour late. By the way, I want on the commercial bird that can fly 150 miles in 5 minutes. That works out to about 1800 mph, all that assuming statute miles and not nautical miles.

[Kaboochi]

I hate flying right now. Pilots make too little money ($18 an hour) and that just creates too much anxiety for me to trust flying right now. I hate being a nervous nelly, but some of the recent incidents just scare me.

I can't imagine that pilots only make $18/hr. For a 40 hr week that would be $37440 gross. No way - too enormous a responsibility for such a low salary.

[emdia43]

Whatever they were doing, they were not paying attention to the job.:eek:

Good thing they didn't fly over the White House by mistake....that would have been interesting.

[buckanear]

I can't imagine that pilots only make $18/hr. For a 40 hr week that would be $37440 gross. No way - too enormous a responsibility for such a low salary.

 

Rebecca Shaw, pilot of the recent Colgan Air crash, was making $16,254 a year.

[GaryfmCol]

There is a system in place to help prevent mid-air collisions. It's called TCAS and you can read about it here http://adsb.tc.faa.gov/TCAS.htm

 

 

T.C.A.S. is incredible..

 

Sadly, the military does not have it in their aircraft

as the mid-air off Southern California clearly proved today. :(

[CFIGuy]

For the $18/hr figure, everyone needs to realize what another poster mentioned about trips. Commercial pilots can legally fly no more than 1000 hours per year or about 20 hours per week.

 

Now, before everyone goes off talking about what a perfect part time job this is, let me explain pay. As a pilot, you are paid from "door closed to door open". What this means in simple terms is if you see a pilot, they are not getting paid. Examples include; at the airport waiting for flight, walking around plane doing preflight, while passengers are boarding or deplaning, when they are going through preflight checklists, when flight is delayed, etc. So, a good rule on pay is you work 1 hr with no pay for every hour with pay, or a 2:1 basis or an average of a 40 hr work week.

 

As an ex-regional pilot (on furlough), I can attest to the sub 20k salary as a first year F/O on a 50 seater regional jet flying under the colors of a major airline.

[Murphs]

Just a thought, but I am curious as to why the flight attendants did not realize they were way over due into MSP. Also surprised that passengers did not question what was going on. I always have a pretty good idea of where I am at when flying and keep an eye on time. Im amazed that passengers were not questioning the timing with flight attendants who in turn would have questioned the flight crew. Just a thought. Personally I think they must have been sleeping.

 

Mike

[Captain Jake]

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes532011.htm

will show pilot wages LAlRGE JETS

 

:cj

[wraithe]

Just a thought, but I am curious as to why the flight attendants did not realize they were way over due into MSP. Also surprised that passengers did not question what was going on. I always have a pretty good idea of where I am at when flying and keep an eye on time. Im amazed that passengers were not questioning the timing with flight attendants who in turn would have questioned the flight crew. Just a thought. Personally I think they must have been sleeping.

 

Mike

 

According to the news reports that I have listened to, it was a flight attendant that finally got their attention, and asked what was going on.

[Ocean Boy]

For the $18/hr figure, everyone needs to realize what another poster mentioned about trips. Commercial pilots can legally fly no more than 1000 hours per year or about 20 hours per week.

 

Now, before everyone goes off talking about what a perfect part time job this is, let me explain pay. As a pilot, you are paid from "door closed to door open". What this means in simple terms is if you see a pilot, they are not getting paid. Examples include; at the airport waiting for flight, walking around plane doing preflight, while passengers are boarding or deplaning, when they are going through preflight checklists, when flight is delayed, etc. So, a good rule on pay is you work 1 hr with no pay for every hour with pay, or a 2:1 basis or an average of a 40 hr work week.

 

As an ex-regional pilot (on furlough), I can attest to the sub 20k salary as a first year F/O on a 50 seater regional jet flying under the colors of a major airline.

It doesn't sound much different than what happens with plenty of other professionals. Your doctor is pretty much compensated for face to face contact with you. He gets nothing when he is reviewing your lab tests, coming up with the treatment plans for your abnormal values, fighting with your insurance company that conveniently lost the claim for your office visit, trying to get some dimwit on the other end of the phone who as never seen you to authorize the CT Scan or MRI that you need to help diagnose your illness, the time he spends reading an researching trying to make a diagnosis on a very strange set of symptoms, over at the hospital reviewing your x-rays, etc.

 

That is how it is with professionals. There is plenty of uncompensated time. That is part of what differentiates them from clock punchers.

[temple1]

It doesn't sound much different than what happens with plenty of other professionals. Your doctor is pretty much compensated for face to face contact with you. He gets nothing when he is reviewing your lab tests, coming up with the treatment plans for your abnormal values, fighting with your insurance company that conveniently lost the claim for your office visit, trying to get some dimwit on the other end of the phone who as never seen you to authorize the CT Scan or MRI that you need to help diagnose your illness, the time he spends reading an researching trying to make a diagnosis on a very strange set of symptoms, over at the hospital reviewing your x-rays, etc.

 

That is how it is with professionals. There is plenty of uncompensated time. That is part of what differentiates them from clock punchers.

 

But technically pilots and crew are clock punchers. YOu doctor is in control of what s/he bills. Your doc is billing for reading the CT scan or the time in the hospital, Those are all billable to the insurance company that has already told his part time billing clerk over and over you do not unbundle services and try to get paid twice.

 

The pilot and crew might have started their day checking into the airport in Toledo at 6 am, have 3 weather delays, then finally leave for a 45 minute flight to the next stop, pick up and drop off passengers, do this 5 times during the day and at 9 pm take off for the final flight back to Toledo after being on the job for 15 hours but only have 6 hours billable time.

[Ocean Boy]

But technically pilots and crew are clock punchers. YOu doctor is in control of what s/he bills. Your doc is billing for reading the CT scan or the time in the hospital, Those are all billable to the insurance company that has already told his part time billing clerk over and over you do not unbundle services and try to get paid twice.

 

The pilot and crew might have started their day checking into the airport in Toledo at 6 am, have 3 weather delays, then finally leave for a 45 minute flight to the next stop, pick up and drop off passengers, do this 5 times during the day and at 9 pm take off for the final flight back to Toledo after being on the job for 15 hours but only have 6 hours billable time.

 

No, the radiologist is paided for reading the CT scan. You doctor gets nothing for going over and looking at it himself. But most doctors will take the time to go over and do it anyway and take the time to discuss it with the radiologist. It is NOT billable to the the insurance company and that part time billing clerk you mentioned would not be trying to unbundle it because she/he wouldn't even know that the time had been put it. Maybe your doctor is in control of what she/he bills but he is far from in control of what she/he is compensated. Funny you talk about doctors trying to unbundle claims but you make no mention about insurance companies finding ways to delay payment of legitimate claims, sometimes for months, for all kinds of bogus reasons that I won't take the time to bore everyone with at this time. I will simply say that I know well of what I write about here. I doubt that many pilots have to fight to get their company to pay them for the flight they just completeled.

 

You can look at pilots as clock punchers if you like. The bottom line is, as I said before, plenty of professionals put in uncompensated time. I will leave it at that.

[temple1]

No, the radiologist is paided for reading the CT scan. You doctor gets nothing for going over and looking at it himself. But most doctors will take the time to go over and do it anyway and take the time to discuss it with the radiologist. It is NOT billable to the the insurance company and that part time billing clerk you mentioned would not be trying to unbundle it because she/he wouldn't even know that the time had been put it. Maybe your doctor is in control of what she/he bills but he is far from in control of what she/he is compensated. Funny you talk about doctors trying to unbundle claims but you make no mention about insurance companies finding ways to delay payment of legitimate claims, sometimes for months, for all kinds of bogus reasons that I won't take the time to bore everyone with at this time. I will simply say that I know well of what I write about here. I doubt that many pilots have to fight to get their company to pay them for the flight they just completeled.

 

You can look at pilots as clock punchers if you like. The bottom line is, as I said before, plenty of professionals put in uncompensated time. I will leave it at that.

 

In a past life I was the person who worked for the employer coordinating between the bad old insurance company and the humanitarian doctors office for our employees. The majority of the time the bill wasn't paid because the doctors office was trying to double dip from the insurance company and the employee would be in my office screaming about the crappy insurance we paid a fortune for.

 

The reason your example of comparing a pilot to an independent doctor - the doctor is in control of the business he runs and the pilot is not.