Diamond has left my family stranded!

[cruiseerf]

Hey all:

 

My family of 4 was scheduled to be on two Radisson Diamond back to backs this August. We have already purchased and upgraded our non refundable airfare and booked hotels on both ends. We will incur $200 per person to rebook the airfare and we will lose our upgrades in the process.

 

When I spoke with Radisson on Monday they assured me that the Diamonds summer season was not in jeopardy? All of a sudden today I read that the ship has been sold as of June? To add insult to injury, Radisson which is supposed to be this "great & reputable" cruiseline will not cover our airfare change fees. The final straw is that Radisson is offering $700 per person credit on another cruise? As we are on two cruises back to back you think we would be receiving $1400 per person? Absolutely not. I was told that the maximum per passenger is only $700 and must be used by the end of 05. finally there are no Radisson ships in the Aegean in August so that does us very little good.

 

I am the one who was introducing my whole family of first time Radisson cruisers to Radisson Seven Seas and now this. Please also note that it was I who called Radisson...They never called me....They are sending letters to the travel agents offering them additional $100 + full commissions if we re-book with Radisson. I am upset by this and feel as though I have been worked over by the system.

 

In 40 or more cruises I have been cancelled only once and we received 35% off the cruise of our choice and had to send in receipts for any expenses which we incurred and all was refunded. That was on Silversea. In my mind Radisson and their handling of this situation is disgraceful.

 

Any input? Do I have any legal ground to stand on here? Love to hear it.

 

Thanks!

[svanelle]

We have not lost any money, technically. I was lucky in that I was told I needed to wait to book airline tickets by Turkish Airlines. However, I am SO disappointed. I had been planning this trip for two years to coinside with my only child's high school graduation. Even with the two for one deal it was more than I should have been spending, but I decided we would really live it up and had pored over RSSC's brochure so many times, it was dogearred. The ship sounded really wonderful. I had arranged for independent guides in Istanbul and also for a side trip to Egypt, plus made hotel reservations. As somebody else mentioned, Windstar does this same itinerary with exactly the same dates. However, it would cost about an additional $3000.00, so that option is out. The $700 towards another cruise in 2005 doesn't do us any good, since none of Rad's fleet are going to the ports we have our hearts set on.

 

My only idea is to fly into Istanbul and do our tour with our guide there and then fly to Athens and catch some Greek Island cruise from there. We are then flying over to Cairo for two days, which was part of our original plan. If anyone has any other ideas, I would love to hear them. Also, suggestions for cruiselines from Athens. My TA didn't really have any ideas.

[VikkiGarcia]

sorry to hear about your situation. I would be really upset that they are not honoring you back to back as 2 cruises and doubling your compensation. Did you not have to pay a deposit for each cruise separately? I know we did on RCI. I hope you recieve a decent compensation package and made whole. Please keep us informed of happens....

[JoAnne B]

It certainly seems to me that if you have two separate cruises and not one offered as a single Voyage, you should be entitled to two credits. After all, isn't it to their benefit for you to book two cruises before the end of the year! Not to mention your rebooking airline costs and loss of upgrades. I don't know what line you are on, but have you checked to see if the airline will redeposit your miles.

 

This has certainly become a quagmire. I have been given so much mis-information since news of the cancellation surfaced. I'm beginning to feel like a ping pong ball. We were booked on the fall crossing, with two adjoining cabins (and waitlisted for a master suite). We were initially told that there was a $250/pp future credit but no protection of our fare if we switched to the Voyager crossing. Then we were told that we would be protected, and based on that information initiated a switch to the Voyager. Then they cancelled the summer as well and offered a $700/pp future cruise credit. When I brought it up to the TA yesterday I was told that the difference was that your credit was only good for sailings in 2005, while ours extended through 2006. Today I received the formal letter from RSSC. What a difference!!! Now the $250 credit must be used on a sailing in 2005, and if we accept the transfer to the Voyager, we lose that.

 

I'm fortunate that we haven't made any air arrangements and have the flexibility of our own house in Madeira so there are no hotel arrangements either. However, that does not alleviate the frustration that we all have felt over this news. Right now I'm leaning toward cancelling everything.

[Ngaire]

Misinformation adds to the frustration for everyone. I always want to tell people asap but then again since it is difficult to know where the dust will settle and what the final letters will say. Then if the information is wrong people are upset and if you dont advise them people are upset. If you just send it out without information then the phone rings off the wall and people are frustrated that we dont know the answers or if what we thought was true changes.

 

On the first cancelation of 10/22 the understanding was the $250 certificates could be put on a booking by 12/05 good for any cruise in 2006. Also available on all ships including the PG (unusual) Then later it came out in the letters about the choice of two options. Option one:The $250 certificate that had to be used on a cruise by the end of 2005. Option two: The transfer to the Voyager at the protected rate. The best offer was the transfer to the Voyager. The 5% onboard savings could be transferred to another sailing. All money was to be refunded including the onboard booking deposit and no money could be transferred.

 

The second offer had a higher value. I believe that was because the cruises were closer in and there was really no other MED cruises that RSSC has at the same time the Diamond was sailing.

 

Then on the second trip it was $700 per person per reservation. A back to back is booked as one cruise with one booking number and one deposit. So a back to back is considered one cruise and therefore one cruise credit of $700. The certificates MUST be used on a cruise in 2005 and the certificates are not good on the PG (normal). At first you could not transfer your 5% onboard booking and then now you can. All money was to be refunded including the onboard booking deposit and no money could be transferred

 

I dont think this is as much the cruise line changing their minds as that people "guess" and then that is believed to be true. Nevertheless it is very frustrating.

 

I can tell you though that you send your receipts for any charges for airline fees to your TA and then these will be sent to Radisson and they will reimburse the fees to put FF miles back into accounts or fees to change airline tickets. Most tickets even those considered non refundable can be turned in to vouchers with the airlines for future travel for a fee. The fee is different with every airline. These costs you will get that back.

 

It is a bad situation for everyone involved. There are no winners here. I am not defending the cruise line nor saying the cruise line did enough. Those are not my decisions. I am just stating the facts to clarify the situation as much as I can.

[JoAnne B]

"It is a bad situation for everyone involved. There are no winners here."

 

Truer words have never been spoken. And I know the TA's are caught in the middle and doing their best to keep their customers happy. However, even after the letter was received by TA and mailed out to me, I continued to receive inaccurate information. Whether that is the fault of RSSC or the TA, I don't know. I do think it could have been handled better by RSSC. As late as last night when I asked for clarification, I was told that the $250 booking credit could be used for 2006 cruises, and no mention was made of the either/or decision. As a result, I was making decisions based on inaccurate information. It's frustrating to keep thinking the issue is resolved and then having another shoe drop.

 

JoAnne B

[Ngaire]

"It's frustrating to keep thinking the issue is resolved and then having another shoe drop"

 

I think those words are more appropriate for "never truer words have been spoken".

[cruiseerf]

Thank you all for you kind words in this bad situation. Here is some FYI.

 

Tonight I dined with a friend who handles "risk Assessment" for financial firms. He laughed when I told him about my cruise. He explained that any company that leases equipment must analyze and list risks like that in their balance sheets as well as what it would cost should that lease be cancelled or called (Radisson knew this ship could be called back). He explained that to Radisson this was just dollars and cents. They analyzed the risk looking at how much money was to be made (lots if sailing) and how much was to be lost should the ship be sold. They looked at liability and what this would cost them should this exact situation happen...hence our $700 credits are only good on the balance sheet in 05. Radisson then sold their customers down the river gambling on the odds. They decided that the money was more important than their customers expectations. Very sad indeed.

 

As a Radisson customer I feel the brand has betrayed their customers as they were blinded by the almighty $$$. While cruiselines are experiencing great bookings now, it is people like us who keep them in business when the slow times come. As they say in Asia, Radisson has "lost much face" in this fiasco.

 

I want nothing to do with them anymore. I will send in my loss receipts and be done with this.

[English Voyager]

Not having been a party to the negotiations between Radisson,and the new owner of the Diamond,how can one blame the former for the current situation?

While a cruise line's air package MAY be more expensive than an independently arranged flight,is not any extra cost worthwhile given the peace of mind one has should anything happen that affects that booking?

Even if one has arranged one's own flight,in the current circumstances surely one is covered by travel insurance for any loss involved.

To be fair to Radisson,given their limited number of ships,and the popularity of Europe,as evidenced by Celebrity moving the Century,it's ability to accommodate affected Diamond passengers on new European cruises in 2005 is limited.If it were to move one of it's other ships to Europe then those "bounced" passengers would be up in arms.

Having had (land based) holidays cancelled by the Tour Company in the past all we have received is a refund of monies paid,ie no additional compensation.

Radisson's cancellation policy is clearly stated in the booking conditions,and here in the UK one is only entitled to a full refund of any monies paid.

Whether any additional money compensates for the disappointment is another matter.

[Iamboatman]

I think the situation was caused by a number of things all breaking the wrong way.

 

The first one was Radisson taking a gamble on the sale of the ship when it first entered into the charter agreement. It had an escape clause being the right of first refusal rather than a guaranteed charter for the entire period regardless of whether the Diamond was sold. Personally, though I love the Diamond, I don't she would be a great investment in 2005 for a US marketed cruiseline as she is a bit slow, not terribly fuel efficient and the layout is a bit unusual with many public spaces being interior/non-windowed. Hence, exercising the right of first refusal for the US market probably was not much protection.

 

The second one was probably trying to negotiate the economics of the revenue of a US marketed cruiseship with very limited berths and onboard revenue opportunities against the economics of an Asian casino ship. There just isn't any comparison.

 

The third was probably gambling that the first and second items wouldn't get in the way of doing what would be perceived as the "right" thing to do from Radisson's perspective. Unfortunately, what was the "right" thing from Radisson's perspective conflicts with what was the "right" thing to do for the selling owner and the buying owner and the casino operator, all of whom have their own economics and perceptions of what is "right" for their people.

 

In the end Radisson may have gambled with the passengers money and emotions, who relied upon the various marketing efforts and public statements made by Radisson. That was a Radisson business decision. Radisson didn't put a little asterick by any sailing saying "Subject to ongoing negotiations with the ship's owners" or provide the passengers with any warning. Maybe they should have.

 

In the end, the result may be "bad" for everyone, but from my perspective, Radisson made a number of assumptions and then gambled on booking passengers, using the passengers' money and emotions to ante up. IMHO, that makes it worse for the passengers.

 

That said, I think Radisson's offer for a $700 pp cruise credit (if usable in 2006) and addressing unrecoverable airfare costs is pretty fair (considering where everyone is). You still have to consider the fact that if there was a breakdown or a private charter, Radisson had the right to terminate any bookings on those sailings anyway.

[LauraS]

 

The folks over at Radisson have asked that I pass along the correct address to use with regard to this issue:

RSSC Reservations

Attn: Diamond Help Desk

 

11340 Blondo Street

 

Omaha, NE 68164

 

Email: rsscdiamondcs@carlson.com

 

Fax: 402 501 5599

Hope this helps,

Laura

[JoAnne B]

"That said, I think Radisson's offer for a $700 pp cruise credit (if usable in 2006) and addressing unrecoverable airfare costs is pretty fair (considering where everyone is)."

 

No, all of the cruise credits must be used in 2005. In our case it is either switch to the Voyager and lose the future credit, or lose it anyway since we planned to apply it to a crossing in 2006.

 

Having been responsible for coordinating a number of major merger/reorganizations for international corporations before leaving the business world for clinical practice, I've seen these situations from the inside. It is plainly a business decision, as it should be. Their primary responsibility is to the company ownership. Those individuals at RSCC who were responsible for long-range planning really dropped the ball. They needed to have had a contingency plan in place. This is a customer-service oriented industry and knowing that they were at risk should have been enough to prepare for a worst case scenerio. From an accounting perspective it makes sense to keep the credits in 2005. From a customer service perspective it makes a lot less sense. I think they ran the numbers, decided how many clients they could afford to lose, and set the policies accordingly.

 

However, much of the misinformation has come through my TA. I'm not sure who I'm frustrated with more, RSSC or my TA. If anybody needed to know the details of the cancellation policy it was the travel agents.

 

FYI, most air tickets from the US are not covered by cancellation insurance. They may be in the UK, but in the US most are nonrefundable and carry heavy penalties for change. Some do not allow changes on the outbound leg.

 

By the way, when Princess sold the Island Princess very near the summer Med season, they arbitrarily moved people to the Pacific Princess with different departure dates and different ports. They were given only a vey small onboard credit ($25 as I recall) and no option of cancelling without penalty. Many of the cruises were already paid in full and cancelling meant forfeiture of the full payment. They had to scramble for themselves to rearrange air and hotel arrangements. Didn't make for happy customers.

[KatWag]

I'm so sorry to hear about this. It must be terribly disappointing for all of you. Diamond was a great experience and I'm very sorry to see her go.

 

I'm always such a worrier - that's why we end up paying the premium to book the air through the cruise line. Every time I read a story like this, it makes me cringe. Lately I've read so many horror stories about folks who booked with FF tickets or just purchased their own airfare and then had a ship cancelled or chartered right out from under them.

 

It does seem that RSSC really values your business though, if they are willing to cover the airline cancellation fees. So many lines take the attitude that if you booked your own air, you're on your own. Maybe you can work something out to be able to take advantage of one of the offers. I think your family would really enjoy RSSC. We've been so impressed with them that I can hardly imagine going with any other line.

 

Whatever you decide, best of luck. Hopefully, you'll soon be able to figure out an alternative and you and your family can be enjoying a wonderful, relaxing trip together. Hang in there! :)

[PJfromTexas]

I agree about being stranded. My husband and I were scheduled for the August 6th Eastern Med trip starting in Athens and ending in Istanbul. After calling them just 2 weeks ago to ask if this "rumor" was true and being assured my cruise was not affected.......I get an e-mail today to call them. So, I called them and they now tell me that our cruise has been cancelled. Here's how we are screwed: 1) we had a 2 for 1 special price. No way does their "credit" make up for that. 2) we have scheduled AA Advantage mileage for the trip...and there's no way we will be able to start over and use these miles on another trip for August....it's way too late now. 3) This was going to be our 40th Wedding Anniversary and my 60th Birthday celebration. 4) This is only our 2nd scheduled cruise and the first one ended terribly and we were so hoping this one was going to be different. 5) My husband teaches so our timing is limited for scheduling another cruise.

 

The Raddison management HAD to know they were scheduling people while planning to sell this ship. And therefore, they have messed people like us up terribly. Our cruise plans were specific to that place...that time....and it took a lot of work and planning on our part to get it all together. And now.....we are screwed! We are really upset!! So....whoever mentioned "legal case"......please contact me at PatJust@comcast.net.

[JoAnne B]

I've booked air through cruise lines and on my own. Personally, I prefer to keep control of the arrangements, especially with RSSC. It's not a matter of their pricing, but their flights usually aren't as convenient. Houston is a Continental town, with I think over 80% of the flights, yet RSSC does not contract with them and will not even book them for international flights. I did book through RSSC once from Madeira, but they had me on a pre-dawn flight on TAP with tight connections in Lisbon and Newark. That meant changing terminals in Newark, standing in line to get a boarding pass for the connecting flight, and then rushing to make the flight. It was a harrowing day. I also used their air back from San Juan, and again, they did not use the convenient Continental non-stop. As a result I spent most of the day in airports, arriving at SJU before 9 am, and landing in Houston 11 hours later. It just makes more sense for me to book my own air on Continental. For the most part I've found that RSSC respects that many passengers do book their own air and goes out of their way to accommodate changes due to late arrival in port or cancellation of cruises.

 

From all I've heard RSSC always planned to give up the Diamond at the end of the lease. She's expensive to operate, is subject to mechanical problems, and doesn't pull top dollar like the newer ships. However, before selling out the season, good business sense required them to have contingency plans. They left themselves vulnerable by not negotiating protection into the lease. Since we aren't privy to the details of the negotiations, I'm not willing to accuse them of bad faith in selling cabins for the upcoming season. However, they must take responsibility for their own bungled business practices. Surely they knew that their position was precarious at best. Some corporate heads should roll for allowing this to happen.

[NHcruisers]

First, I empathathize with any cruisers' disappointment on the cancellations. The more "special" the occassion of course the greater the diappointment.

Second, any cruisers' plans can be affected by events that fall into three categories beyond our control. The first is Mother Nature. The second has to do with the passsenger (Their health, death in the family, job requirements, etc.) and the third is the cruise line/ship itself (Bankruptcy, mechanical problem, this type of thing, etc. When a passenger does not elect to take insurance, they are making the decision to SELF-INSURE, and since the lines usually do a good job of making people whole for the cruise portion of the vacation, your exposure is for the incidentals ... flights, hotels and the like. Its the gamble you take when you don't insure.

 

Okay ... here's what probably happened.

1.

1. RSSC clearly wanted to extend/renew the lease to continue to operate the Diamond past the lease termination date. To deliberately offer cruises past the termination date KNOWING that they wren't renewing and knowing that the resulting cancellations would could them MILLIONS (out of pocket and ill-will)

[JoAnne B]

I haven't researched this, but do the insurance carriers cover you for incidental expenses when your trip is cancelled by the supplier?

 

Most araticles I've read recommend not buying insuance directly from the cruise line because if they default you won't have coverage. I've always bought through AmEx, but have never needed to make a claim. I usually buy insurance to cover unexpected medical expenses or medical evacuation on transatlantics, but not for the trip itself. In this case I would have been out the premium if I didn't take the trip.

[NHcruisers]

My previous message was truncated. I've lost the patience to retype it (it was lengthy) but have notified the administrator so perhaps he/she can recover the balance.

 

Sorry...

 

Bill

[gr8twocruz]

If you purchase trip cancellation insurance from an outside carrier (like Access America etc.) and the trip is cancelled, you are covered. If you included the costs of hotels, air and other non-cruise related expenses, those are covered too! Unfortunately, some people insure the cruise only and then they are stuck with the other non-cruise penalties, costs etc.

 

Good luck.

[JoAnne B]

Richard

 

Thanks for the clarification on insurance coverage. I don't have any out-of-pocket losses, but others do. It also seems that passengers from outside the US may have different issues. Obviously, if as a condition of sale the passenger forfeits the deposit if they cancel regardless of the time frame, then the cruise line has a greater obligation than it does for those of us who are permitted to cancel without penalty outside 120 days.

 

I do hope that all is resolved soon so that we can begin looking forward to upcoming cruises.

[NHcruisers]

My lengthy post that was truncated was an attempt to explain how maritime leases work and the efforts that RSSC made to continue operating the Diamond. Here's the short version.

 

Losing the Diamond at this point in time was the LAST thing that RSSC wanted to have happen. First, it will cost them millions to say nothing of the customer ill-will generated. Secondly, there are NO new RSSC ships under contract to be built. (They had an option with Marioti yards to build another 700 pax ship but that expired, unexercised, at the end of the year.) So their fleet is now 14% smaller and will remain that way for at least two years. My guess: You can probably expect RSSC to announce a new ship build contract within 90 days. (Terrible timing though due to the weak dollar.)

 

RSSC clearly did not expect this outcome based on their own analysis of the market for the Diamond, discussions within the "clubby" CLIA and also probably discussions, albeit non-binding, with the lessor many months ago. RSSC didn't sell the ship, the lessor did! BTW, many cruise ships are leased under identical, long term arrangements.

 

RSSC was in a tight spot. The lessor was obviously more interested in selling the ship than continuing to lease it. Since RSSC only wanted to operate the Diamond for an additional two years (probably), they did not want to BUY (my understanding is the lessor sold the ship) the Diamond in June by matching the purchase offer. They concluded this for many reasons, including tying up their capital which might have affected their next new ship build.

 

And they tried VERY hard in offering financial incentives to the new owner and lessor to delay taking the ship so they could complete the already booked cruises. They did this for three reasons. First, RSSC did not want to lose the profits on these future cruises. Second, they didn't want the significant expense of compensating the affected passengers. Finally, they didn't want to create customer ill-will.

 

Everybody lost, including RSSC (BIG TIME).

 

Having said all of this, I can fully understand everyone's disappointment with the turn of events.

 

Bill

[JoAnne B]

Bill

 

I think you are right on the progress of the negotiations, and that RSSC was the big loser. However, there is a piece missing. It appears that, under the terms of the original lease, they were at risk for losing the ship on June 1. Then, they aggressively marketed the summer season with low pricing, filling the ship with passengers largely unaware that there was risk of cancellation by RSSC. Under that model, RSSC was remiss in not having a back-up plan in place months ago. Not with all the details, of course, but with a plan of action in place. Since they would, in most cases, be cancelling through an intermediary (TA's), communication with them was key. This worst case scenerio planning should have been ongoing during the negotiations. Instead, they were left scrambling, leaving TA's without adequate knowledge to deal first-hand with clients, and offering different compensation to different individuals. Even within agencies some TA's were better informed than others. Perhaps that is the fault of the individual TA, but access to information should not have been based on the TA's close relationship to RSSC.

 

The bottom line is that RSSC has lost face not just with an important part of its customer base, but also with TA's who are responsible for selling their product. Those who are the most frustrated seem to be customers new to RSSC or who booked with TA's doing low volume with RSSC. Will those TA's be quick to steer clients to RSSC in the future? Will newbies burned on this one ever consider RSSC when making future cruise decisions? When RSSC is losing 40% of its fleet, and therefore 40% of its itinerary choices, it's a poor time to be perceived as "stranding" passengers.

[cruiseerf]

My family of four bought a very expensive travel insurance policy at the time we put our initial deposit down on the cruise . We bought this independant of the cruiseline and it covers the entire value of the trip (cruise+air).

 

After speaking with the A+ rated insurance company on Friday I was informed that "vendor failing to provide services" is not a cancellation reason. I then called another A+ vendor whom I am holding a different travel insurance policy (another cruise) with and they echoed the same thing.

 

Both insurance companies said you can make a claim, however it will be under review and it is not clearly covered like various medical or family deaths etc.

 

We are in the process now of choosing our next cruise.....looks like Silversea as my family are upset with Radisson and there are no ships in the Greek Islands. We will send in all of our receipts for airfare changes etc. Hopefully Radisson will cover these. I will keep you all informed.

[new_cruiser]

As somebody else mentioned, Windstar does this same itinerary with exactly the same dates. However, it would cost about an additional $3000.00, so that option is out. The $700 towards another cruise in 2005 doesn't do us any good, since none of Rad's fleet are going to the ports we have our hearts set on.

 

What date were you on? I was really surprised when you said this as we switched from the Diamond to Wind Star June 4 Istanbul-Athens and the price was much lower (about $2000). We had originally booked the Wind Spirit May 28 as a back up to the Diamond because it is a Signature cruise but we recently switched to June 4 because the price was so much lower. The prices on the Windstar site for these cruises seems to have gone up quite a bit in a very short time - maybe partly because of people switching over from the Diamond?

 

I also feel I'm unlikely to be able to take advantage of the cruise credit in 2005. The remaining RSSC cruises either don't interest us or don't match our calendars. Also, at this point many of them have filled enough that the current price minus the credit is pretty high so using the credit in 2005 doesn't provide much value.

[NHcruisers]

Joanne B--

 

As a CEO myself (twenty years of private and public companies), the issues that RSSC faced were vexing. My guess is that they were probably at least 95% certain they could roll over the lease. I believe this assessment was helped along by the discussions they had with the lessor. Face it, the Diamond would not be wanted by any NA or European line nor would it fetch top dollar from any traditional cruise line. Who would have thunk that a Chinese holding company would want to take this ship, spend millions to convert it to a floating casino, and pay more than they should have.

 

Yes, RSSC took a small risk and they lost big time.

 

What contingency plans could they have set up? Do you REALLY think it would have been wise to asterisk these cruises with the statement "These cruises may not take place ..." considering the small element of risk. Nobody would have booked them, which if things turned out as expected, would have been disastrous for the Company.

 

Please think about this. The Diamond fiasco is probably the largest financial loss that any small cruise line has taken. Loss of profits on five months of cruises, the expense of compensation for probably 5,000 plus passengers, and the ill will. We're not talking about a single cruise cancellation due to a mechanical issue, we're talking 5 months of cancellations and mega millions here! It may be as simple as RSSC cannot pay out more without jeapodizing their company's financial health.

 

Some of the misinformation during the uncertainty period is understandable. After the facts were known, any misinformation was inexcusable.

 

Again, what contingency plans could they have set up?

 

Bill