BIG (to me) Choice Air issue

[Brucen]

Back in February I booked round trip business class air from Los Angeles to Copenhagen through the Azamara Choice Air system. I was thrilled that I could get the flights that worked for us all at a price that was fair.

 

I was thrilled until today when I went to confirm and saw that the last leg of my trip (Chicago to LA) has us assigned to COACH seats. After an hour and a quarter (much of it on hold) with the Choice Air department, the best they can tell me is that it is not an error! It is an SAS ticket and code shared with United to get to and from LAX to Chicago. Somewhere in the SAS fare rules it apparently says that coach seats can be assigned over the land portion of a trip! I will not argue that it says that somewhere......... But I will tell you that Choice Air NEVER made me aware of it. Had I known this I would not have booked it. All of my paper work, tickets, confirmations, etc. all clearly say "Business Class". Even the ticket for this last leg of the trip says "Business Class" yet the seats are in coach. Had I not gone to check seat assignments and recognized that row 18 is coach seats, I would not have known about this until I went to get on the plane in Chicago.

 

Aside from the apparent bait and switch here (whether by the airline or Choice Air is irrelevant) the fact is that I am 6' 5" tall. My knees do not fit in a coach seat. The idea of coming back from a trip where I have been pampered (I hope) and have to spend the final 4 1/2 hours of my trip contorted like a pretzel into a seat that I do not fit in gives me the shakes! This final 4 1/2 hours will be after a 9 hour flight and a 3 hour lay over for a change of planes.

 

The aggravation is exacerbated by the fact that there was not even a supervisor I could talk to! I spent an additional 10 minutes on hold only to be told that someone would call me back within 24 to 48 hours.

 

I have e-mailed and US mailed a letter to Larry Pimentel. One can only hope at this time.

 

Best,

Bruce

[gillianrose]

Back in February I booked round trip business class air from Los Angeles to Copenhagen through the Azamara Choice Air system. I was thrilled that I could get the flights that worked for us all at a price that was fair.

 

I was thrilled until today when I went to confirm and saw that the last leg of my trip (Chicago to LA) has us assigned to COACH seats. After an hour and a quarter (much of it on hold) with the Choice Air department, the best they can tell me is that it is not an error! It is an SAS ticket and code shared with United to get to and from LAX to Chicago. Somewhere in the SAS fare rules it apparently says that coach seats can be assigned over the land portion of a trip! I will not argue that it says that somewhere......... But I will tell you that Choice Air NEVER made me aware of it. Had I known this I would not have booked it. All of my paper work, tickets, confirmations, etc. all clearly say "Business Class". Even the ticket for this last leg of the trip says "Business Class" yet the seats are in coach. Had I not gone to check seat assignments and recognized that row 18 is coach seats, I would not have known about this until I went to get on the plane in Chicago.

 

Aside from the apparent bait and switch here (whether by the airline or Choice Air is irrelevant) the fact is that I am 6' 5" tall. My knees do not fit in a coach seat. The idea of coming back from a trip where I have been pampered (I hope) and have to spend the final 4 1/2 hours of my trip contorted like a pretzel into a seat that I do not fit in gives me the shakes! This final 4 1/2 hours will be after a 9 hour flight and a 3 hour lay over for a change of planes.

 

The aggravation is exacerbated by the fact that there was not even a supervisor I could talk to! I spent an additional 10 minutes on hold only to be told that someone would call me back within 24 to 48 hours.

 

I have e-mailed and US mailed a letter to Larry Pimentel. One can only hope at this time.

 

Best,

Bruce

 

I am a foot shorter than you are and I would be livid if this happened to me.

I would probably cancel the trip or the Choice Air, to tell the truth. There is no way I will fly across the continent in coach seats.

 

(And, while I am very sympathetic to your plight as a tall guy, wider folks also have ssues with flying in coach seats that make them just as uncomfortable. Plus there are people with medical issues, bad knees, diabetes, etc. FLYING IN COACH SUCKS!)

 

I am so glad I don't have any long-distance flights planned in the near future.

 

Please let us know how this gets resolved.

[Brucen]

I am a foot shorter than you are and I would be livid if this happened to me.

I would probably cancel the trip or the Choice Air, to tell the truth. There is no way I will fly across the continent in coach seats.

 

(And, while I am very sympathetic to your plight as a tall guy, wider folks also have ssues with flying in coach seats that make them just as uncomfortable. Plus there are people with medical issues, bad knees, diabetes, etc. FLYING IN COACH SUCKS!)

 

 

I am so glad I don't have any long-distance flights planned in the near future.

 

Please let us know how this gets resolved.

 

 

Gillianrose,

 

Thank you for your support. The more I think about all of this the madder I get. I remember that when I booked, I Called the Choice Air people to confirm what I was booking was in fact business class. The site asks you ahead of time and the pricing was about what others were charging for business class but when you get to the point to go ahead and charge your credit card nothing says "Business Class". It was because of this I needed to get an agent to confirm before I booked. Should have noted the agents name :-( It now turns out that according to Choice Air I booked a business class fare. This business class fare does not necessarily assure me of a business class seat. How could even a lawyer imagine such a thing? If anyone knows off hand which government agency should get a letter about how wrong this is (legal or not) please let me know so it will save me researching at least that much of it.

 

In addition to my size, my wife is recovering from breast cancer. She is on medication that makes EVERY joint in her body hurt. A coach seat for her will be as least as miserable for her as it will be for me and my size.

 

With all the reports about obesity it amazes me that airlines are not required to provide seats that more than 20% of the population can fit in. Fit in at all, not just comfortably.............

 

Done with rant for tonight........

 

Best to all,

Bruce

[gillianrose]

Gillianrose,

 

Thank you for your support. The more I think about all of this the madder I get. I remember that when I booked, I Called the Choice Air people to confirm what I was booking was in fact business class. The site asks you ahead of time and the pricing was about what others were charging for business class but when you get to the point to go ahead and charge your credit card nothing says "Business Class". It was because of this I needed to get an agent to confirm before I booked. Should have noted the agents name :-( It now turns out that according to Choice Air I booked a business class fare. This business class fare does not necessarily assure me of a business class seat. How could even a lawyer imagine such a thing? If anyone knows off hand which government agency should get a letter about how wrong this is (legal or not) please let me know so it will save me researching at least that much of it.

 

In addition to my size, my wife is recovering from breast cancer. She is on medication that makes EVERY joint in her body hurt. A coach seat for her will be as least as miserable for her as it will be for me and my size.

 

With all the reports about obesity it amazes me that airlines are not required to provide seats that more than 20% of the population can fit in. Fit in at all, not just comfortably.............

 

Done with rant for tonight........

 

Best to all,

Bruce

 

If I could help, I would. Maybe a travel agent will see this and offer you some good suggestions. I hope that you and your wife get Business Class all the way and that you have a wonderful cruise. All the best.

[crzrr]

Bruce,

 

You have every right to be livid. I have never heard of booking a business class fare and not being assured of a business class seat. A couple of options I can think of -

Depending on the date on your credit card statement, you have 60 days from the date of the statement (not the charge) to dispute the charge. You may be past that time.

Check your credit card program - some programs automatically give you trip protection/cancellation on air tickets if you use your card to purchase the tickets. Might be able to cancel without a charge.

 

Since Choice Air is part of RCL, besides going through Mr. Pimentel's office, I would work my way up RCL.

[Jade13]

I would be mad too based on I assume a very high fee.

 

Btw, not to make matters worse but SAS was the worst flying experience we have ever had. We would never fly them again unless there was no other options such as in some flights within Norway. I always thought they were considered a top airline but they were bad.

 

If these can not be canceled, is there an option to upgrade at cost on the United Flight? We flew them across country last year to LA and they have an option in Coach (I think Coach Plus or something) where there is a lot of extra leg room which is really what you want. Are you sure you are not in this section? You can ask about it on the Cruise Air board but it has positive reviews. I have seen the seating and there is a lot of leg room.

[Susan-M]

All of my paper work, tickets, confirmations, etc. all clearly say "Business Class". Even the ticket for this last leg of the trip says "Business Class" yet the seats are in coach.

 

Another suggestion is to ask your CC company what their policy is for refunds based on "services not rendered". Since you have confirmation of business class tickets, and won't be receiving them, you aren't getting what you paid for. They may not do anything until you can verify that you actually didn't get the business class seats, but if you have to pay to upgrade at the airport, or suffer through the 4 hrs. of coach seats, I think you would have a good argument for not receiving what you paid for.

 

I hope you are able to get this resolved before your trip so that you don't have to anticipate dealing with the 4 hours in economy seats at the end of your trip.

[Brucen]

Thank you all for your sympathy and ideas. I seem to be unable to get sympathy from Choice Air, but at least I get it here!

 

I had thought about the credit card route and will be checking it out today but I think I booked this back in January. I need to find those details.

 

The upgrade route is a possibility but at this point I am not even sure if I would upgrade through SAS or United. Knowing nothing about it, I would not be surprised if they ended up just charging me some "normal" upgrade fee of a million $$ a seat.......

 

I remember when I went through the booking process with Choice Air you put in that you wanted business class at the beginning of the process. When you got to the point where they charged your credit card there was nothing that actually said "Business Class" anymore and you could not pick seats during the booking process. I got out of the booking process because I was nervous and called Choice Air to make sure it was actually business class I was booking. The agent assured me it was and all was fine......... When I got my confirmation it says "fare type" business. I am very curious to hear how a Choice Air supervisor can explain to me how anyone could be expected to imagine there could be some legal loophole that allows a "fare type" of business to be in coach. Yes, that makes sense, I want to pay double normal coach fare to sit in a coach seat..........

 

At this point it is not even about the money. It is just wrong on so many levels. I am angry, not at so much at what it means to me but the injustice of it. Sorry, I tilt at windmills........ The anxiety over all of this has wiped out the eager anticipation I had yesterday looking forward to our trip and replaced it with this blind furry. I do not even know where to direct the furry.

 

Thanks again, sorry for the rant.

 

Best,

Bruce

[Susan-M]

No apology necessary ... I find it astounding that this could happen. It's a lesson for anyone considering using Choice Air - only worthwhile if you book economy seats.

 

Good luck, and please keep us posted.:)

[UKBayern]

I think that there is something else going on here. This type of plane just does not have a business class section. Sometimes this happens in Europe too. They sell you business class, you do get the special priority checkin, priority boarding, the priority luggage label and the business lounge access, but on board there is no business class. I am fairly sure of it because it says "fare type business". All that this means is that you get the fringe perks (like the lounge etc) and that you have a full flex ticket suitable for businessmen who change their flights often. And yes, because of this, there are people who are willing to pay twice as much for their seat. "Fare type business" means a ticket that is tailored to businesses. It does not mean that you get a business class seat.

 

I would suggest you ring United and just plainly ask them if this plane has a business class section to start with. If they say yes, then ask if there are still business seats available. If there are, I would kick a big fuss with Choice Air.

[xplrcrzn]

This is clearly a "fare basis" issue. Sometimes coach & business fares are bundled in such a way that they appear to be cheaper than "normal" full business fares. Usually, what happens is that all or part of the domestic segment of a trip is in coach and the overseas portion is in business. Thus, the less expensive fare. This a common fare bundle for all airlines and not something Azamara has done to fool the customer. That said, any experienced agent would understand the coding of particular flights and should have explained to the OP what was involved. To that extent, Azamara certainly is at fault.

[Brucen]

This is clearly a "fare basis" issue. Sometimes coach & business fares are bundled in such a way that they appear to be cheaper than "normal" full business fares. Usually, what happens is that all or part of the domestic segment of a trip is in coach and the overseas portion is in business. Thus, the less expensive fare. This a common fare bundle for all airlines and not something Azamara has done to fool the customer. That said, any experienced agent would understand the coding of particular flights and should have explained to the OP what was involved. To that extent, Azamara certainly is at fault.

 

 

Xplrczn,

 

That is my point. Choice Air/Azamara should have made me aware of this.

 

Others,

There is no business class on the flight in question, only first class. I have never cared about any of the "perks", I just want a seat that I fit into and not so cramped that my wife will not be able to be as comfortable as possible with her medical issues. If Choice Air has to move me to first class, to give me the space I was led to believe I had coming to me then that is what they have to do.

 

Finally, this never was a fare issue (to me). I do not remember but I think the Choice Air price was within $100.00 of other fares I easily found on the web. I went with Choice Air because my mother and her sister are also going on this trip coming in a day later than my wife and I. She wanted transfers and hotel through the cruise line to make it easy for herself so she wanted the Choice Air. My wife and I booked through Choice Air to make sure we were all together (if my mothers return flight changed, so would ours) and it seemed easiest at the time. Cost was never the overriding concern.

 

Thanks again for the input/help. I will keep you posted.

 

Best,

Bruce

[Paulchili]

Bruce,

domestic flights rarely have business class - usually it is economy

and first. First is used as business class when connecting to an

international flight that has true business class- thus you should be

entitled to the first class on the domestic portion (to serve as

"business" class). Also see if the ORD to LAX flight on UA has

economy plus seats which would be better than economy.

See if the fare is such that it is fully changeable or refundable.

FWIW, I too would be furious about this

[Brucen]

Bruce,

domestic flights rarely have business class - usually it is economy

and first. First is used as business class when connecting to an

international flight that has true business class- thus you should be

entitled to the first class on the domestic portion (to serve as

"business" class). Also see if the ORD to LAX flight on UA has

economy plus seats which would be better than economy.

See if the fare is such that it is fully changeable or refundable.

FWIW, I too would be furious about this

 

 

Paulchili,

 

That is apparently exactly the case here. The flight in question only has economy and first. I am working to get the first class seats.

 

To all others:

 

Here is what has transpired so far today. I called Choice Air again this morning because I am so anxious about all of this. I immediately asked the agent that answered for a supervisor. After having to give my booking number, it turns out that I was talking to the same person that I talked to yesterday. She told me she had discussed my issue with the supervisor and the supervisor told her to investigate with United and then report back to the supervisor. I asked her when that could be expected to happen. She informed me of how busy she was and said she would get back to me as soon as possible. I asked her if it was reasonable to expect a call back within 4 hours. She promised that yes, they would get back to me within 4 hours.

 

In the meantime my travel agent (to whom I turned over the booking to after it was complete in March) has first class seats reserved for me just in case. I thought it best to recontact Choice Air to let them know that if they go to look for seats for me the system may not find any because they are already on hold for me through someone else and we could figure out how to fix this once they came to some determination. The Cruise Air agent then gave me several reasons that none of this is there fault and all they can do at this point is to cancel my tickets (along with that would go the transfers my mother wanted) refund my money and I could do whatever I wanted. I suggested to her that I STILL need to talk to a supervisor. The supervisor is on a conference call and will call me when she gets off that call. It is impossible for me to imagine that they are willing to leave it that the best they can do is refund my ticket costs......

 

As an aside, I still have the Kayak alerts I signed up for in my e-mail. I have at least 10 emails from Kayak dating from the time I booked showing multiple options for business class seats available for the same price I paid Choice Air. The same site now shows the same tickets will be $2,200.00 more than I paid (Surprise - last minute booking). Choice Air actually thinks that canceling my old tickets and letting me rebook on my own is the best they can do for me????? I hope the supervisor is more reasonable than that.

 

Best,

 

Bruce

[Jade13]

Xplrczn,

 

That is my point. Choice Air/Azamara should have made me aware of this.

 

Others,

There is no business class on the flight in question, only first class. I have never cared about any of the "perks", I just want a seat that I fit into and not so cramped that my wife will not be able to be as comfortable as possible with her medical issues.

Thanks again for the input/help. I will keep you posted.

 

Best,

Bruce

 

Bruce, have you checked seat guru website to look up the plane and configuration. I would not be happy either paying more and getting less. But you need to first determine your alternatives. I think you said you picked the airlines. Now check out the plane because United does have this new seating on some planes which have a lot of extra leg room.

[Brucen]

Jade,

I have been on seat guru. The plane does have economy plus. These seats do have extra leg room and are better than coach but they are still the same narrow seats that are in the rest of coach. I have sat in them before, but they are not comfortable. I should also disclose here that in addition to my height I weigh 265. No part of me is comfortable in a coach seat. The fact that economy plus is available seems irrelevant anyway. I contracted for business class.

 

 

Next Update:

 

The supervisor called. They claim giving me first class on the flight I am on is not possible. They say it is not their fault, United changed the equipment back in March and replaced the plane with business class with on that does not have business class. How can they give me the business class seat when one does not exist is their claim. She has again reiterated the offer to refund my tickets to me. I told her replacement tickets were now about double what I paid and that did not seem like an option to me. She then offered "as a courtesy" to see if there were alternate flights that they could offer that would be business the entire way.

 

I should hear back in another hour or 2.

 

When I asked her why they did not inform me that there was an equipment change back in March that pushed my business class seats into the coach section of the plane, her response was that my phone call was the first they had heard of it.

 

Maybe it is because I am upset, but what seems most astonishing to me is that so far, NO ONE at Choice Air seems to really understand why I am upset. They keep giving me alternate reasons why it is not their fault. There seems to be no acknowledgment that I have any right to expect business class seats to be provided for the entire trip. They are now looking for alternate flights, but it feels really begrudging - not at all like they are obligated to provide what was promised me.

 

Will keep the board updated. Thanks all

 

Best,

Bruce

[Paulchili]

Bruce,

their claim of a plane change is lame at best and totally bogus.

Even IF they changed equipment to one that no longer has 3 classes,

you should have been automatically moved up to First and not

down to economy.

We fly business often (always for miles) and if there is a domestic

portion, it is ALWAYS in First (which.BTW is not as good as

international business seats - at least on AA & OW).

[Brucen]

Bruce,

their claim of a plane change is lame at best and totally bogus.

Even IF they changed equipment to one that no longer has 3 classes,

you should have been automatically moved up to First and not

down to economy.

We fly business often (always for miles) and if there is a domestic

portion, it is ALWAYS in First (which.BTW is not as good as

international business seats - at least on AA & OW).

 

Pauchili,

 

I could not agree with you more. At this point I do not feel like I have much ammunition. My flight is one week from today. I feel like I can push Choice Air as far as they will go or I can get a refund and spend an additional $2,200.00 per ticket X four tickets on my own. I can tell them that what they are saying seems bogus and reliable sources tell me otherwise and then they say it is not and maybe I should take my refund and let the other sources help me - where does that leave me??? I can be right and still be in a damn coach seat......

 

Thanks for your thoughts and support,

Bruce

[Brucen]

Probably the last update for the day:

 

The supervisor called to tell me she had not forgotten to call me back but was still working on my issue. She is working with the carrier to have them promise me the first class seats and at the same time, looking for alternate flights. She says she will call me back by 9:00 am tomorrow.

 

Another sleepless night......

 

 

Best,

Bruce

[Jade13]

Probably the last update for the day:

 

The supervisor called to tell me she had not forgotten to call me back but was still working on my issue. She is working with the carrier to have them promise me the first class seats and at the same time, looking for alternate flights. She says she will call me back by 9:00 am tomorrow.

 

Another sleepless night......

 

 

Best,

Bruce

 

Bruce, so First class seats are still available on this flight, correct? At least that is some good news.

[Jade13]

Bruce,

their claim of a plane change is lame at best and totally bogus.

Even IF they changed equipment to one that no longer has 3 classes,

you should have been automatically moved up to First and not

down to economy.

We fly business often (always for miles) and if there is a domestic

portion, it is ALWAYS in First (which.BTW is not as good as

international business seats - at least on AA & OW).

 

Paulchili, good point. And you are right. When we flew to Australia in Business class, our seats to LA were in First class (across country, partner was US Airways).

[schmidlapp]

This thread confirms my opinion of Choice Air, while a good concept, the

people running it are inept compared to good experienced TA's.

A couple points to follow,

First,

Whenever a ticket is booked, each flight. segment is normally listed with the fare paid and class of service. If you do not get business class as requested for the whole group of flights, it should be listed as "mixed"

Then the coach, biz and first class segments are shown by segment.

Choice Air should show this somewhere, but does not.

Second,

Domestic first class is a lower class of service than international business class, so if you are told that there is no domestic business, and accept first class, it really is a downgrade and they really are not doing you a favor.

Third,

When using choice air, we did not get the same agent when we would call back and were told anyone could help us. This causes problems if there are specific questions as we were told different things by different agents.

Last,

Choice Air never shows all the options that a site like Kayak shows.

For instance on our return from Istanbul, a Turkish Air codeshare with United did not show up as an option for us.(we have to fly out on a much earlier Lufthansa flight to make the same connection in Germany) Our friends booked this as part of a UA flight and end up getting a couple extra hours sleep in the morning we leave.

 

Hopefully RCI can get their Choice Air programs "act together" as in the current form it is not what it could and should be.

[Brucen]

Final report:

 

First the good news - We have business class the whole way.

 

The long story (if anyone cares)

 

The supervisor who promised to call me back by 9am our time did not. At 9:15 I called the direct line she gave me and it went to the voice mail of someone I did not know. I assume she gave me a wrong number or I wrote it down wrong. I did not have time to deal with it right then, I had to go see a customer. While I was out, someone called at 11:00am (2 hours late) and left a message that they knew they owed me a phone call but they wanted me to know that they were still working on it and would call within the next 1 - 2 hours. At 1:15 I received a call from a new person I had never talked to. I had been expecting a call from yesterdays supervisor. The first thing he said was how sorry they were for the problem and they thought they had a solution for me. At that point I interrupted him and asked what his position was, was he an agent, did he work for the supervisor I spoke to yesterday, what? He told me he was a manager and was yesterdays supervisors boss. I then thanked him for the apology and told him as a manager I thought it was important for him to know that his was the first time ANYONE had said they were sorry. The original agent and the supervisor did nothing but try and explain to me how the problem was not Choice Airs fault. Had anyone apologized at the beginning and given me ANY sense that my problew would be rectified I doubt I would have written any of these posts and I know I would have slept better the last 2 nights.The manager appologized again and said he appreciated knowing that.

 

Cutting to the chase, Choice Air was not able to work anything out with SAS for that final leg of our flight. They refused to put us in First class. Our outgoing flights remain unchanged but our return flights are now through Delta leaving slightly less than an hour earlier from our original flight. We now go through JFK rather the Chicago and we get in a bit earlier. Most importantly, we have business class seating the whole way. The differences in the flights are so minimal as to be of no consequence. If push came to shove, I think the new flights are a bit better timing wise.

 

So all is well that ends well, but BOY have I learned some hard lessons.

 

Thanks to all,

 

Best,

Bruce

[tgg]

Hi Bruce,

 

I'm glad to hear that things worked out to your satisfaction. As you said, an apology somewhere along the way (preferably at the beginning) would have made things better. I'm glad you included all the details because you have made it possible for all of us to learn from this. Wouldn't it be nice if someone from Azamara management used this as a teaching lesson.

 

Happy cruise.

[Brucen]

Hi Bruce,

 

I'm glad to hear that things worked out to your satisfaction. As you said, an apology somewhere along the way (preferably at the beginning) would have made things better. I'm glad you included all the details because you have made it possible for all of us to learn from this. Wouldn't it be nice if someone from Azamara management used this as a teaching lesson.

 

Happy cruise.

 

 

Tgg,

 

Thanks for the good wishes. As to the management using it as a teaching lesson, I am not sure I mentioned this before. At the beginning of all of this I went to the Azamara web site to e-mail Larry Pimentell the same letter I wrote to him by mail about all of this. The site has a box you can check if you want to send an attachment and it then opens a box for you and you select the document out of your files to attach. It seemed simplest to just attach the letter I mailed to Mr. Pimentell and my e-mail just said to see attachment. The next day I got an e-mail back saying that they were unable to read any attachments and to please resend my message in the body of the e-mail!! Why would they provide a way to send attachments and then not have the ability to read them??? I resent my letter in the body of the e-mail and have not heard anything as the result of my letter or e-mail.

 

People on these boards indicate that Mr. Pimentell is a serious man who expects things to be done correctly. He can chose to use all of this as a lesson if he wants to because he has been made aware!

 

The bottom line is watch out for business class "Z" fares from ANY airline.

 

Best,

Bruce