Booking an accessible room

[Oceanwench]

I am getting tired of reading how pax not in need of an accessible room can book them so easily.

How can there be so many selfish people in the world?

 

So often in discussion about rooms, someone will write "Room 6003 is so much bigger than the others in that category, I am going to book it."

Then I am the lone voice who posts, "That's an accessible room, designed for travelers who have handicaps. It is larger to accommodate a wheelchair and a roll-in shower."

 

Pax without disabilities are discussing the pros and cons of getting the accessible rooms ... and I am feeling insulted!

DH is in a wheelchair and needs an accessible room. In our last two cruises we had no problems booking, but for our upcoming cruise in May, we had to go with our third choice b/c all the accessible rooms were booked on our first two.

 

Do cruise lines book non-handicapped persons into accessible cabins with the understanding that they'll get moved if a handicapped person needs the room?

I can't see how this would work.

[Splinter]

It depends on the cruise line. Some require a physician's letter, some do not. Some will bump a AB passenger to another cabin (usually with a free upgrade) if someone with a disabilities wants to book that cabin, some will not.

 

It is not much different than handicapped parking placards though. Just as

ABs often find a physician who will fraudulantly sign off on a permanent disability placard or plate, they will also find dishonest physicians who will write them a letter on the physician's stationary saying they have a mobility disability when they do not.

 

Unfortunately, there are many selfish, self-centered, and rude people in this world. That is the reality we all have to live with.

[Oceanwench]

I realize that it's going to happen ... as with the handicapped parking permits.

However, I've not heard people bragging about how they got placards for their cars. I would think most people would not boast of such things.

 

With accessible cabins, however, it seems people want to share their "find" with others -- posting the numbers of the rooms, telling everyone how much bigger the rooms are, etc. etc.

 

"Hey, let's all book the rooms the ship has set aside for people with handicaps! Those rooms are so much bigger than the others!"

 

Yuck.

[ashleysmm]

I agree it make me very angry also. My husband and I always book at least 1 yr in advance for any cruise/vacation as we need accessible rooms. I can't tell you how many times we ended up paying more because of this. We can't take advantage of last minute cruise specials because all accessible cabins are booked. In the past most cruise lines would put a 24 hr hold on an accessible cabin and require you to fax them proof of disability usually a letter from your physican. If you didn't send the necessary info to the cruiseline the cabin was cancelled. Recently they have had numerous people complain about invasion of privacy/discrimination because they felt they shouldn't have to provide a physican's letter in order to book a cabin, and the cruiselines have for the most part stopped requiring any proof. They say they will move an AB person if a handicapped person needs the cabin. How can they do this when most of the time they have no idea if the person booked in the cabin is AB or handicapped? It then becomes the handicapped person problem in trying to convince the cruiseline to sell them an already occupied cabin. Again in order to avoid this we always book a minimum of 1 yr in advance. It's sad that so many people are ignorant of the difficulties the handicap live with on a daily basis. But until people stop being selfish and stop feeling that they are entitled to something that they're not the handicap will continue to be taken advantage of. I wonder if those abusing the system would feel differently if they were to experience a major handicap themselves even if just for 24 hrs. As the population continues to age this will become a major issue as the number of physically challenged will rise, lets hope that attitudes change also.

 

Carol

[Arlened236]

Carol, you said it better than I could....we booked our room on the 2/18 sailing of the Island the first week of August last year...there were no w/c accessible cabins Jan and we got the last one on this sailing. I wish I did not need it but being an amputee and needing a w/c accessible bathroom I am glad they have them. I would never mind having proof that I need the room...I think only the able bodied people would mind.(it would prove that they dont need the room)

If Congress passes new legislation concerning ADA and the cruise industry, especially those ships flagged out of US and using US ports we may have companies with better understanding of our needs..

I hope seeing someone that really needs this kind of room will change these selfish people's attitude...or at least, make them think twice about booking this type of cabin.

Arlene

[Queenie2]

C

If Congress passes new legislation concerning ADA and the cruise industry, especially those ships flagged out of US and using US ports we may have companies with better understanding of our needs..

 

Congress is considering no such legislation. If anything, they are consideration legislation to "limit" the ADA (ADA notification Act).

 

On the other hand the supreme court will decide this session if foreign flag ships are covered under the ADA. And then the US Access Board is still working on guidelines for cruise ships (if the supreme court rules that the ADA does not apply to foreign flag vessels, then these guidelines will only apply to American flagged vessels -- they are few.)

 

I agree with what Splinter said. If you require folks to show medical documentation of a disability, there will always be those who are "not disabled" but can do that ( they do it already for parking placards and jury duty ). In the end you penalize the group you want to protect, and again I have to say that I know many wc-users who do not even have a doctor (nor really feel they have the need to see one).

 

No, ABs should not book the accessible cabins, but hey no matter what you do there will always be rude and ignorant folks who try to do this because they see an accessible cabin as a "perk".

 

Candy

[Oceanwench]

Do these wc-users have the parking placards?

If so, how did they obtain them?

It's my understanding that one has to have a doctor's recommendation/signature before one can get a placard.

[information provided by DH, who knows such things!]

 

We have never been asked for documentation to book an accessible room on HAL ships.

If we were to be asked, however, we would be happy to provide all kinds of doctors' letters.

I agree with Arlene ... I think those who would do the most squawking would be the people who have no disability -- but are looking for a bigger room for their $$$.

 

And Carol is right: Were some of these people to experience what it's like to be in a wheelchair, their attitude might change.

[Jen_MN]

We had to have my doctor fill-out a form when we booked our HC room with RC. I had no problem with that at all, as it seemed they were just trying to meet the needs of their HC passengers. I don't really understand why someone who is HC would feel offended by being asked to provide such documentation, if it means they will be getting the services they need. Those who are truely HC and who truely need a HC room should not be offended.

 

I really didn't think our HC inside room was much bigger than the regular rooms, so I don't see why non-HC people are so eager to get them.

 

If HC rooms remain unbooked a week before sailing, then I'd be ok with them being opened up to anyone. A local TA offers last-minute cruise deals 2-3 weeks ahead of time that I would love to go on, but HC rooms seem to be full.

[Queenie2]

Sorry guys, I'm having some technical difficulities here. I went in to edit my post (below) and instead of editing, the whole message was reposted. So then I tried to delete one of the posts, but I can't find the delete button (and the edit field looks like it has been changed too).

 

I know I have deleted my own posts before, but I cant' find the way to do it now.

 

Can anybody tell me how to use/find the delete function? Has it been moved?

 

Thanks!!

 

Candy Harrington

[Queenie2]

Do these wc-users have the parking placards?

If so, how did they obtain them?

It's my understanding that one has to have a doctor's recommendation/signature before one can get a placard.

 

Yes, the doctor has to sign a form; however many just sign off for long time patients who just *want* a placard. Again the accessible parking space is seen as a "perk" by some instead of the necessity it is. It happens a lot. Or if you want to bypass the doc all together, just go to E-bay and buy one. No, it's not legeal, but it happens a lot.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I'm totally against ABs booking accessible cabins, however I don't think we should start requiring medical certification. The ironic part of this all, is the cruise lines that do require the medical certification are able to do this because they are foreign flagged vessels and it has not been determined if they are covered under the ADA (until the Supreme court says yes they are, we have to assume they are not). If indeed the Supreme Court says they are covered under the ADA, asking for any type of medical certification will be prohibited (simply stating the you need accessible services is adequate). It's kind of a Catch 22 situation.

 

Edited to add, I don't have a probelm with any type of questionnaires, asking about the width of your wc, or what services you need, but I don't think these should have to be filled out by a doctor. As I said, some wc-users are not under a doctors care.

 

Candy Harrington

[DEL67]

We have not had much trouble booking an accessible cabin. I think the key is flexibility. Although we have preferences, we are open with regard to cruiseline, itinerary, type of cabin and even date. And we avoid holidays and school vacations (except in the summer). As a result, we have even been able to get accessible cabins within a month of sailing. Of course this might change now that many lines are not allowing electric carts to be left outside non-accessible cabins.

 

Actually, Carnival has been the most helpful about loacting an accessible cabin for us when all of them are booked. Twice they have called everyone in an accesisble cabin to see if they really needed it and then moved someone out so that they could accomodate us.

 

We too have had to provide doctor's notes and/or fill out forms regarding my husband's disability and his wheelchair. I generally do not have a problem with doing so, especially since it provides me with an opportunity to request late seating since he needs to take medication with food around 8 PM. However, I did refuse HAL's request for a list of his medications since I considered it an invaision of privacy.

[DesrtDrmr]

We haven't had a request for Doctor's letter for booking an accessible cabin.

I did need one for getting a parking placard. I have to have a new one every two years. I have to make a doctor's appointment in order to take in the DMV form.

One cruise I needed to have a blood test on board, due to a new medicine I was taking. I called the cruiseline to see if that was possible, and I had to send faxed forms from the cruiseline, back to them, from two different doctors, along with medical records, etc. This had to be done within a few days, and was rather difficult to set up with two different specialists. When I was on board, and went, at the appointed time to the medical center, to have this test, the shipboard personnel had NEVER heard of me!!!! I didn't have an appointment. They had no letters and no records. They DID do the test, but I always wondered why the home office needed all of this information, and the ship's doctor did not. I had a nice visit with him, and he said that happens all the time.....................sigh..............

[ashleysmm]

Candy,

 

I hadn't realized Congress was considering limiting ADA requirements. Can you direct me to a website with info concerning this? I know in the past my husband has been in contact with the Justice department over a few issues in regards to ADA and I would like to pass the above info along to him.

 

I also want to thank you for all the info you pass along on this board and thru your publication. My husband has been a parapeligic for 32 years and we haven't let it affect our activities in regards to what we like to do. Yes it takes a lot of planning but the effort is more than worth the time spent. We have had many wonderful vacations both landbased and cruising and are looking forward to our next cruise to Hawaii in May where our son will be getting married.

 

Carol

[Queenie2]

By limiting the scope of the ADA, I meant that the political mood was more for limiting rights rather than expanding them. The legislation I'm speaking of is the ADA Notification Act, and basically it would require you to give written notice to a business that is not in compliance with the ADA, (and wait a certain amount of time) before you could file an official complaint. It's very controversial, but you can find some general information on it at http://adawatch.org/protect.asp. You will probably get a good earful (as I say it's very controversial) by just doing a google search on "ADA Notification Act".

 

The point is, unfortunately the general public thinks that PWDs "get too much" and well, the mood isn't exactly favorable for expanding rights. I just feel it's a slippery slope -- once you start whittling down the rights, well, it's hard to reverse the direction.

 

Thanks for your nice comments. I'm sure you will enjoy Hawaii -- attending your son's wedding is an added bonus I'm sure!

 

Candy Harrington

[ashleysmm]

Hi Candy,

 

Thanks for the website and info I've forwarded to my husband.

 

Carol

[Umbarger]

Oceanwench,

 

I cant agree with you more. This subject really chaps my hide. I was looking at the same thread you were.

 

I travel with my handicapped mother and we have to change our cruise dates several times just to find handicapped cabins that are available.

 

Then we have AB people coming on these boards saying...... Hey, we booked a handicapped cabin but we didnt need it and it was a lovely large cabin much nicer than the regular cabins. What kind of message is this sending to other people? Its just making the problem worse and AB people just dont understand. They wont until they become handicapped or someone close to them becomes handicapped.

 

The one that takes the cake is the Woman who always books handicapped cabins because her husband is 6' 5". And she honestly thinks she is entitled to it and gets away with it. Gosh, my husband is 6' 4" and, can you believe it .........I never knew he was handicapped. ;-)

 

Linda

[anchorman]

OK. Now you're all making me feel guilty. My wife and I are looking to book our first cruise. I, occasionally, use a mobility scooter because my MS limits my walking to a couple of city blocks. I want to use the scooter to get around the ship, as I use it to get around a big convention hotel, but I can easily walk into any room, get into any bed and shower in a regular shower.

 

I was thinking about trying to book an accessable room, but it's really only necessary to give the scooter a place to park and charge overnight. Do I need one?

 

Ed

[Queenie2]

No need to feel guilty Anchorman, we were not talking about you!!

 

I find it interesting that people who have a disability (any disability) seem more considerate than ABs. I've seen so many people like anchorman thinking they are not "disabled enough" to need an accessible room (ie" leave it for somebody else) and are willing to give it up.

 

Yes, Anchorman you do need an accessible room.

 

We are talking here about people who just think that accessible rooms are perks and more roomy, and who like to brag about getting them, even though they don't need them.

 

The latest incident was about a person who is AB (as are her three kids) and she just wanted to book an accessible room for her kids (one being an adult child) just because it was close to her room.

 

I've also talked to people who have lied and said they were disabled just to get an accessible room ("cause they are larger you know").

 

Nope -- I'm not going to question somebody's disability, unless like Linda said, it's the person who feels her tall hubby should be qualified as disabled too.(give me break!!)

 

Book an accessible room and have a great cruise anchorman!!

 

Candy

[anchorman]

Thanks. My scooter and I now feel better, (and my wife, too, I guess). Now all we have to do is find a ship, a date and my checkbook :)

 

Ed

[Oceanwench]

Linda,

 

Yes! You understand what I'm talking about b/c you read the same HAL thread! People actually bragging that they book the accessible rooms for the extra space it gives them! ACK!!! And advising others to do the same.

I keep reminding everyone that HAL does not put those new "pillowtop" mattresses in the accessible cabins ... maybe they'll think twice about booking them.

Somehow I can't see HAL going through the bother of telling AB pax "OK ... you can have it for now, but we'll bump you if a person with disabilities needs it." HAL is not going to create that much work for itself.

 

Anchorman: You should not question booking yourself into an accessible room! Scooters take up a lot of space, and the other cabins are smaller. DH is in a powerchair, and the HC rooms are great for maneuvering around.

 

The fact that you don't need the other amenities -- grabbars, lower beds, higher toilets, etc. does not matter. You need the space for your scooter, and you sure will need a scooter when you wander around the ship!

 

DH also has MS, and when he was able to walk, he was easily fatigued. He'd park in HC spaces, and you can imagine the looks he got! There are a lot of invisible disabilities ... MS can be one of them.

[Umbarger]

Oceanwench,

 

Her bragging worked. Because someone just posted on that HAL thread that they are going to book the same handicapped cabin she had. They are AB but are saying the handicapped cabin is the only one left. I wonder if it really is??????

Call me crazy but I tend to doubt it. :-(

 

Linda

[Umbarger]

By the way, I have muscular dystrophy. I am still able to walk but stairs are becoming extremely difficult and I really need the grabber bars to be able to get up from a sitting position(like the toilet). I have a handicapped placard for my car but never use it for myself as I do not believe I am handicapped enough to use it yet. I only use it when my mom (who is disabled) travels in the car with me. I have been on 7 cruises and only book handicapped cabins when I travel with my mom. But, then again, my husband is 6' 4" and I guess I could book a handicapped cabin on account of HIS "disability". LOL ;-)

 

Linda

[zannaree]

...with the clear understanding that we will be moved if a handicapped person requests an accessible room. The Carnival agent told us that we would be upgraded if we were moved, so we have nothing to lose as I see it. We are a party of three and would be thrilled with the extra room (who wouldn't?!?) but would move in a New York minute if necessary...

 

In my profession I work with people needing accessible facilities, and have a number of family members who need them as well. In no way am I trying to take away an accessible room from anyone who needs it - but I suppose some folks would do that and feel no remorse...

[Oceanwench]

...with the clear understanding that we will be moved if a handicapped person requests an accessible room. The Carnival agent told us that we would be upgraded if we were moved, so we have nothing to lose as I see it. We are a party of three and would be thrilled with the extra room (who wouldn't?!?) but would move in a New York minute if necessary...

 

In my profession I work with people needing accessible facilities, and have a number of family members who need them as well. In no way am I trying to take away an accessible room from anyone who needs it - but I suppose some folks would do that and feel no remorse...

 

I am sorry, but I don't buy this.

I doubt the cruiselines will take the time to investigate which of its accessible rooms are booked by AB pax, then rebook those pax -- and upgrade them at the same time.

Think about it -- does it make sense?

If such were the case, then more people would book accessible rooms as a "guarantee" -- realizing that if a person with disabilities needed the room, they'd get an automatic upgrade!

What a deal!!!

 

I am insulted by your comment that you work with people who need accessible facilities, that some of your relatives need accessible facilities.

That's akin to the old "some of my best friends are ... [you fill in the blank]."

A poor attempt to justify what you've done and at the same time show how [allegedly] sympathetic you are to the needs of persons with disabilities.

 

As someone whose husand is disabled, I have had my eyes opened to the selfishness of many in the AB world.

Those who deliberately book HC cabins, claiming they are willing to give it up if a person with dsiabilities needs it, are selfish.

Don't kid yourself.

 

I told my husband about this thread and asked him, if he did not have MS, if he were part of the AB world, would he ever knowingly book an accessible cabin for the extra space.

His reply: "Are you kidding? Absolutely not."

[Oceanwench]

By the way, I have muscular dystrophy. I am still able to walk but stairs are becoming extremely difficult and I really need the grabber bars to be able to get up from a sitting position(like the toilet). I have a handicapped placard for my car but never use it for myself as I do not believe I am handicapped enough to use it yet. I only use it when my mom (who is disabled) travels in the car with me. I have been on 7 cruises and only book handicapped cabins when I travel with my mom. But, then again, my husband is 6' 4" and I guess I could book a handicapped cabin on account of HIS "disability". LOL ;-)

 

Linda

 

 

Linda,

 

As someone said [maybe it was you?] earlier ... people with disabilities are so much more sensitive to others with disabilities ...

You are certainly entitled to use your parking placard, but you don't -- thinking there is someone else perhaps who needs that space more than you.

 

That act of unselfishness speaks volumes.

And the fact that you don't book accessible cabins for yourself -- amazing.

LOL about your husband's "disability." Some people will use any justification, right?!!

 

Think I'll go back to the HAL thread and check out the situation.