Getting tired of the QM2 bashing

[southwestie]

Chet63, Thank you for that, your 100% correct, so when they say please WASH your hands, do it,

 

In October, the virus was brought onboard in NYc somehow, it was gone in a few days and Cunard did the most amazing job of dealing with it.

 

I praise cunard for that and I am more than happy to sail with them again soon,in fact, not soon enough

[guernseyguy]

We had the virus for a week back in October and it didnt spoil a day for us

 

Not even being confined to your cabin for 48 hours? Surely that was a bit of a drag?

[guernseyguy]

the amount of passengers who caught the virus is phenomenal

 

No....its 7.45% or one in 13.....and of those onboard its just over 5% - one in 19.

 

I'm curious why you think its more urgent that someone remove a bottle of champagne from their cabin (which they could buy (that or a near-equivalent of) onboard in any case) than a medical emergency is evacuated from the ship.....they have to clear cabins near the landing area in case of an accident with the helicopter....

[polofan]

I couldn't agree more about personal hygiene, hence I carried and used my own antibacterial hand wash, I used the ships antibacterial hand wash and washed my hands thoroughly before and after eating. I couldn't have done anything more than what I did.

 

I am from a medical family and know the importance of regularly washing, in particular before eating and practice accordingly.

 

I didn't eat in the buffet, as through my OWN observation hygiene was NOT up to par. Regrettably as has been mentioned, it is minority of crew and passengers who don't observe simple things like washing hands, that leads to the few suffering.

 

As to the comment about the medical emergency - the Captain made an announcement whilst in port, that a passenger may need medical attention and as such the ship stayed in port longer than expected. The airlift occurred much later (several hours later), and an announcement was made regarding that this would occur. However, a great deal of time past between the announcement and the actual airlift. My comment was aimed at this time difference, and how if procedure had been followed, no inconvenience would have occurred or failing that adequate warning may have been made (as time was not an issue).

 

I have not at any point eluded to a bottle of Champagne being more important than a medical emergency. That said however, (as i am sure you are all aware) the area where a helicopter would land, is near an elevator well, and next to the doors adjacent, so presumably there should have been NO disruption. As to evacuating cabins as a result of an accident with the helicopter, it is highly irregular to believe that any evacuation would indeed make a difference. But if this was the case as mention before, adequate warning could have been made.

 

I would like to say that all my comments regarding Cunards impact RE: the NoroVirus have been based upon personal observation whilst onboard and, and not at some distance upon previous experience.

 

I of course realise that the spread of flu/viral and other such infections are part and parcel with modern life. However, many means of proactive preventative methods can be put in place, which if adhered to certainly reduce the risk and potentially limit the outbreak of such infections before reaching red alert status.

 

The issue onboard the festive cruise was a culmination of many factors which regrettably resulted in an outbreak far in excess of acceptable, and accordingly the centre of disease control boarded the vessel in order to assess the situation.

 

What occurred onboard the QM2 can as a result of the above, only be commented on by personal observation rather than pontification.

 

My comments RE: the level of service and quality of food are again a result of personal observation and not previous experience whilst on board on prior voyages. The levels of both food and service fell far below acceptable and accordingly led to many failings.

 

In regards to what I could have done to prevent my illness, I can think of little and was advised so whilst onboard. I was informed that the actions I had taken as a proactively hygiene focused passenger were above what was necessary and as such, was informed that my illness was 'bad luck'.

 

the comment that it is my opinion that this matter was a result of Cunard is more than correct, it is absolutely right.

it is my opinion and this opinion was made by being a passenger on the voyage in question.

 

I have been on many voyages, and have observed different practices of hygiene on vessels, and in my opinion this voyage certainly undertook a 'different' stance.

 

The main point I would like to raise is I didn't board the ship with the illness and i am sure all those who suffered would say the same thing. The sheer fact that a crew member was onboard with the virus when we boarded highlights certain things...

 

What was deeply upsetting is the way passengers who had caught the virus well into their holiday (beyond the period which would indicate they brought it on) were made to feel like criminals and most importantly missed out of many days of their holiday and ultimately ruined their christmas.

 

I would like to finish my comments on this thread by saying, most importantly, the only passengers who can comment as to what Cunard did or didn't do, are those who were onboard at the time. The testimony of those passengers in tandem with the official figures highlight certain matters that may or may not elude to what Cunard did or didn't do. I'll leave that with those of you who weren't onboard.

 

Happy sailing, and I pray none of you suffer like I did.

[southwestie]

I fully agree with what your saying, but how can you be sure that you did not board the ship with the virus, anyone could have picked up the virus from any port of call on the cruise and brought it back on the ship, that is what happened, who knows who, where.

 

 

as i said we had it back in October and I spoke to people later who did fall ill and none of them said they were treated badly let alone like criminals, those who had were kept inside for a fews days and then allowed to continue there cruise and I promise you that had a bad word to say about the way they were treated or the way Cunard dealt with the virus, in fact none of CC members on board even mentioned the virus on here:)

[polofan]

I know I said that was my last post before, but the temptation to carry on got the better of me :-)

The outbreak occurred some 3-4 days into the voyage: when one considers the incubation period of the virus is 24-48 hours, this would preclude any notion that the illness was brought onboard by a passenger, since over 72 hours past before an outbreak occurred.

My suspicion (and it is purely speculative, based upon personal observation and opinion, and in no way represents scientific fact) that the illness was introduced by a crew member, is based upon the evidence I was provided by the doctor that a member of crew boarded with the virus, and was quarantined for 48 hours following. If one looks at the incubation period of the illness and the end of quarantine for the crew member, the two look rather coincidental and open the debate as to how the outbreak occurred. (just to clarify, I am not under any circumstance saying that this is what did occur, just purely making a fair comment based upon what information I have at hand).

I myself, caught the illness on boxing day so there is no chance that brought the illness onboard.

Based upon medically recognised research, the maximum period of incubation is 72 hours, but this is exceptional and incredibly rare, with the majority of cases incubated within 24 hours ranging to a high of 48 hours.

As it happens, the day before I came down with the virus, I stayed in my cabin doing work and only left for dinner, so the only place I could have caught the illness is onboard.

From the many conversations I have had with avid cunarders I have little doubt that generally this line, exceeds expectations and delivers a luxury product, but with regret this didn't occur on the festive cruise and my experience of Cunard is far below what I would expect and I (along with my family) left feeling disappointed and deeply upset.

 

I have been on ships in the past, where the norovirus has occurred, and have seen the actions taken before/after an outbreak, my observation on this voyage indicates many failings (in my opinion).

 

I apologise if I have upset anyone with my comments about Cunard, I genuinely boarded with great optimism and looked forward to the voyage for the same reasons many of you look back with great pleasure, but the product/service I received fell short.

[southwestie]

Well, no wonder you didnt find it very festive, you stayed in your cabin working all day on Christmas day except for coming out for dinner.

 

How long were you confined to your cabin after that with the virus????????

 

So you also stayed onboard in Grnad turk, st maarten and tortola???????????

[polofan]

Yes, I sound like scrooge don't I but the work needed to be done, in order to enjoy the holiday as a whole, so any opportune moment was taken full advantage of to work

For my family Christmas is very much about midnight mass, having a lovely Christmas dinner with good food and good company, rather than events during the day.

We were at sea on Christmas day, so there wasn't particularly a great deal to do (I don't play bridge, I had seen the film before etc... so perfect timing to sit in my room and catch up on work).

I felt, that working in my room and having my food delivered was a far better idea than eating in the buffet, which by this point was creating some horror stories over dinner (peoples observations of what was going on, somewhat put me off), so I stayed in my cabin, got on with some work and kept the news on (I am rather sad in that wherever I go, I have to know whats going on in the news).

The following day (Boxing day) we were in Curacao and I have been to Curacao so many times before, I didn't feel the need to go out, so again, I did some work (although on Boxing day, the weather was better, so I sat on my balcony and got caught some sun). After dinner, I returned to the cabin and within a few hours, my symptoms started - they lasted all through the night, but abated in the morning, at which point, I called the doctors, who ordered isolation for 48 hours.

Due to the confinement I missed my favourite ports of call, Grenada and Barbados, which was such a shame, as I had planned to meet some friends in Barbados whom I hadn't seen in such a long time.

so, up to the point where I became symptomatic, I hadn't left the ship for two days, and the previous port, was only a pit stop (I boarded the tender in St,Lucia, got ashore, found out the tour had been cancelled and got straight back onto the tender. I didn't even leave the dockside, literally, walked off the tender, and got back on again).

So really, the only port I had been to before I was ill was 3 days previous.

 

I must admit, I enjoyed Christmas eve, We ate in Todd English and had a wonderful meal (the love letters were to die for). and we attended midnight mass, so that was quite pleasant. But paying extra for a meal and a religious service, doesn't quite make up for the rest i am afraid.

 

As for St.Maarten and St.Thomas the first two ports of call, I did leave and did some window shopping. BUT, If I had of caught anything from those ports of call however, I would have been a very unhappy chappy on Christmas eve and Christmas day (due to the incubation period). As it stands however, I evidently caught it onboard the ship, and missed my two favourite ports of call.

From the figures I was shown by the doctor, the graph he created depicted a sharp increase in cases (reported) the night before St.Thomas or in St.Thomas, which would suggest 72 hours (roughly) after leaving NYC, or to put it another way, 24 hours, after an end of a 48 hour isolation period...

[Ryancoke]

Can someone tell me how antibacterial handwash could work on a virus? Or is the antibacterial designation a misnomer?

[southwestie]

Yes, I sound like scrooge don't I but the work needed to be done, in order to enjoy the holiday as a whole, so any opportune moment was taken full advantage of to work

For my family Christmas is very much about midnight mass, having a lovely Christmas dinner with good food and good company, rather than events during the day.

We were at sea on Christmas day, so there wasn't particularly a great deal to do (I don't play bridge, I had seen the film before etc... so perfect timing to sit in my room and catch up on work).

I felt, that working in my room and having my food delivered was a far better idea than eating in the buffet, which by this point was creating some horror stories over dinner (peoples observations of what was going on, somewhat put me off), so I stayed in my cabin, got on with some work and kept the news on (I am rather sad in that wherever I go, I have to know whats going on in the news).

The following day (Boxing day) we were in Curacao and I have been to Curacao so many times before, I didn't feel the need to go out, so again, I did some work (although on Boxing day, the weather was better, so I sat on my balcony and got caught some sun). After dinner, I returned to the cabin and within a few hours, my symptoms started - they lasted all through the night, but abated in the morning, at which point, I called the doctors, who ordered isolation for 48 hours.

Due to the confinement I missed my favourite ports of call, Grenada and Barbados, which was such a shame, as I had planned to meet some friends in Barbados whom I hadn't seen in such a long time.

so, up to the point where I became symptomatic, I hadn't left the ship for two days, and the previous port, was only a pit stop (I boarded the tender in St,Lucia, got ashore, found out the tour had been cancelled and got straight back onto the tender. I didn't even leave the dockside, literally, walked off the tender, and got back on again).

So really, the only port I had been to before I was ill was 3 days previous.

 

I must admit, I enjoyed Christmas eve, We ate in Todd English and had a wonderful meal (the love letters were to die for). and we attended midnight mass, so that was quite pleasant. But paying extra for a meal and a religious service, doesn't quite make up for the rest i am afraid.

 

As for St.Maarten and St.Thomas the first two ports of call, I did leave and did some window shopping. BUT, If I had of caught anything from those ports of call however, I would have been a very unhappy chappy on Christmas eve and Christmas day (due to the incubation period). As it stands however, I evidently caught it onboard the ship, and missed my two favourite ports of call.

From the figures I was shown by the doctor, the graph he created depicted a sharp increase in cases (reported) the night before St.Thomas or in St.Thomas, which would suggest 72 hours (roughly) after leaving NYC, or to put it another way, 24 hours, after an end of a 48 hour isolation period...

 

 

st maarten then, if you picked it up there then 48 hours is boxing day, so you cant blame the ship, you could picked up there

[The Real PM]

I didn't eat in the buffet, as through my OWN observation hygiene was NOT up to par. Regrettably as has been mentioned, it is minority of crew and passengers who don't observe simple things like washing hands, that leads to the few suffering.

 

 

What occurred onboard the QM2 can as a result of the above, only be commented on by personal observation rather than pontification.

 

.

 

The main point I would like to raise is I didn't board the ship with the illness and i am sure all those who suffered would say the same thing. The sheer fact that a crew member was onboard with the virus when we boarded highlights certain things...

 

What was deeply upsetting is the way passengers who had caught the virus well into their holiday (beyond the period which would indicate they brought it on) were made to feel like criminals and most importantly missed out of many days of their holiday and ultimately ruined their christmas.

 

.

I wonder how you came to your conclusion and were able to observe "crew and passengers who don't observe simple things like washing hands"? I wish you would tell us how that is achieved.

 

And I would like to leave you with a quote from the Mayo Clinic that disputes your theory. Are you absolutely certain that it wasn't a passenger that boarded the ship and who was still contagious for days after?

 

"Norovirus. Norovirus is the most common cause of viral gastroenteritis in adults. Symptoms appear within one to three days of exposure. With norovirus, you're contagious from the moment you begin to feel ill. Although you typically feel better after a day or two, you're contagious for at least three days after you've recovered. Some people may be contagious for up to two weeks after recovery. "

[shorebilly]

You know, viruses are everywhere, all the time. The norovirus is prevalent in any place there are people. I guess if you don't want to get it then you must stay away from other people all together. And I suspect there is really very little that can be done about it other than washing your hands often. I suspect that the anticeptic stuff used to wash hands isn't worth a hill of beans either--it just gives people a feeling that they are able to control it. Norovirus is simply a fact of life. So please stop blaming Cunard for it.

 

Nobody is blaming Cunard for the virus itself, but the way they handled the problem! Employees that contracted the virus were quarantined for 24 hours during the height of the outbreak, I know this because our asst. waiter was one of them, passengers were quarentined for 48 hours. That is wrong. Also Cunard then attempting to charge $250 for reporting the virus is again WRONG! And the biggest sin I personally feel that Cunard made was in making you feel like you are a criminal for contracting the virus in the first place, with no apology! I was yelled at by a B**th nurse that I did not report the virus, when in fact I had called medical for my son over 9 hours before she stormed our cabin at 4pm! Then attempting to cover the mistake, she told me that the head Dr. had come to our cabins hours before (at 10:00am to be specific) and that we were not there, another lie all four of us were in the room! This was called into medical at 7:30am!

And in reply to the other what was so special about that bottle of Dom? It was Already PAID for, and yes I went downstairs and purchased 2 glasses at $32 additional $$.

[Salacia]

hang on, this virus has been on the ship lingering since october??? dear oh dear, Cunard really does need to get its house in order!

 

Don't get your hopes up if you are looking for supporting evidence for a potential lawsuit as QM2 has only one reported Noro outbreak in 2010.

See http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/GIlist.htm#2011

[Louise D]

Next thing that we will hear is someone bringing action because they caught flu on board, which would also be prevalent in the Northern Hemisphere at this time of year, and no doubt is on QM2 as well.

 

I would have thought that there would be more long-term sickness and death from the flu compared to norovirus, especially amongst elderly passengers.

[dc-farer]

It should be noted that Norovirus is frequently transmitted via contaminated water or food (salad ingredients and sea food often being the culprits), in which case, you may not be able to completely protect yourself just by being vigilant and washing your hands frequently. In instances where the virus is food or water-borne, the cruise line may, in fact, bear responsibility for a given outbreak. However, as the CDC charts for the last several years demonstrate, virtually every large cruise line has experienced outbreaks of Norovirus at one time or another (and the charts only show those instances where at least 3% of passengers or crew reported symptoms)...so if you choose to cruise, unfortunately it's one of the risks you take.

[dc-farer]

...but then you take the same sort of risk every time you go out to a restaurant to eat.

[guernseyguy]

[quote name='polofan']I would like to say that all my comments regarding Cunards impact RE: the NoroVirus have been based upon personal observation whilst onboard[/QUOTE]

While you were in your cabin (four days, two voluntary, two not) and not eating in the Kings Court?

[garigoun]

[quote name='rob6852']We had the virus for a week back in October and it didnt spoil a day for us, some that had it seemed fine after a few days, no one complained.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Black"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Times New Roman"]If you had the virus for a week and it didn't spoil a day then you're a stronger
man than I am Rob. A week spent cooped up in one's cabin alternately sat on the lavatory or crouched over it projectile vomiting accompanied by headaches, sweats, cramps and a raised temperature would certainly put a kink in my enjoyment. Still, Chacun a son gout, as they say in Barnsley.
Gari
[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[capnpugwash]

[quote name='garigoun'][COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]If you had the virus for a week and it didn't spoil a day then you're a stronger[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black]man than I am Rob. A week spent cooped up in one's cabin alternately sat on the lavatory or crouched over it projectile vomiting accompanied by headaches, sweats, cramps and a raised temperature would certainly put a kink in my enjoyment. Still, Chacun a son gout, as they say in Barnsley.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black]Gari[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[/quote]
Gari, I think Rob means that the virus was present on the Ship, not that he had it himself. :)

[garigoun]

[quote name='capnpugwash']Gari, I think Rob means that the virus was present on the Ship, not that he had it himself. :)[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Black"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Times New Roman"]OH! Sorry. The severed syntax syndrome of hyperspace strikes again.
An Apologetic Gari
[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[southwestie]

[quote name='garigoun'][COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]If you had the virus for a week and it didn't spoil a day then you're a stronger[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black]man than I am Rob. A week spent cooped up in one's cabin alternately sat on the lavatory or crouched over it projectile vomiting accompanied by headaches, sweats, cramps and a raised temperature would certainly put a kink in my enjoyment. Still, Chacun a son gout, as they say in Barnsley.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black]Gari[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[/quote]


No thank goodness i didnt have myself, but the ship did, The thought of it was bad enough, and Cunard and the crew of QM2 did a wonderful job of cleaning non stop so that it went quicly and idnt affect too many people

[southwestie]

[quote name='capnpugwash']Gari, I think Rob means that the virus was present on the Ship, not that he had it himself. :)[/quote]


your right as always Capn.

[southwestie]

[quote name='dc-farer']...but then you take the same sort of risk every time you go out to a restaurant to eat.[/quote]


Not just restaurants, supermarkets, trains, buses, it can be scary

[polofan]

[quote name='rob6852']st maarten then, if you picked it up there then 48 hours is boxing day, so you cant blame the ship, you could picked up there[/QUOTE]

if I had caught this in St. Maarten, over 80 hours would have passed, so verging on impossible. As to the information provided by one user from the Mayo clinic, I however, prefer to use recommendations from internationally recognised, government backed research centres, so the figures I am using (I believe, still stand).

I would like to make one thing clear to ALL those commentating on this thread pontificating over what was or was not done by Cunard - YOU WEREN'T ON BOARD!

There are two CC users commenting on this thread who were, and yet everything we say is being dismissed - perhaps realisation needs to kick in guys. Cunard isn't what you feel it used to be!

As to Law suits, I havent't at any stage said I would pursue the illness, horrific service and lost christmas through the courts, I said however, that I would be fully in my right to do.

To those members who are putting this down to blame culture or 'gung-ho law suits' this is pure nonsense.

And for the record, I was able to take photos, because the situations existed: I reported every fault I observed - NOTHING was done! I complained to the pursers desk so many times, they knew before I spoke what I was going to say. What really upset me however, is seeing incidents and then informing a member of staff about them.
In the Buffet, a kitchen worker who was working the fryer, was sweating profusely (to be expected), but he was wiping his brow, with his plastic glove covered hands, then picking up the food (sweat dripping all over the food). I reported this to a more senior member of staff in the buffet who laughed and said "oh, its hot isn't it"!

Or how about this, the staff member in the buffet who was serving people because we weren't allowed to serve ourselves, scratching her head with the plastic gloves then continuing to serve (no chance of gloves).

or the staff member who walked outside the buffet, lit up a cigarette outside (wearing the gloves) then walked back in and carried on serving. I complained "sir, that couldn't have happened".

Or how about the staff at the gangway in St.Thomas, St.Maarten and St.Lucia, I told them the liquid wash was empty, their reply, "oh, is it...never mind". this was said as dozens of people walked onboard.

Or how about the drinks waiter who wiped the sweat from his brow, then starts to cut a lemon before putting it in my drink.

Or how about midnight mass where shaking hands is customary - but no handwash before entering or leaving?

Or how about my father finding a large plastic strip in his dinner (which looked like it had come from a cigarette pack). we received a letter from the assistant chef after saying "sorry you found it"

Or how about the fact, none of the swimming pools were emptied at all whilst we were onboard, despite international recommendations.

Or how about the vomit on the wall on deck 8 that stayed there for 12 hours

Or how about the disgustingly dirty floors on all decks

or how about the vomit filled toilets on deck 7 (which weren't cleaned for hours).

Or how about the broken and chipped crockery that food was served in on a regular bassi

Or how about the broken and cracked glasses drinks were served in on a regular basis

How about the under cooked meat that was served twice whilst on board

Or how about the staff member who was placing dirty plates under the clean ones,

or how about the staff member who was placing dirty trays back in clean pile without cleaning them



WAS CUNARD DOING EVERYTHING IT COULD??????????


I have never issued a law suit personally, nor has any member of my family issued a law suit. I feel litigation is the last resort and should only be taken under extreme cases.

[capnpugwash]

WAS CUNARD DOING EVERYTHING IT COULD??????????

It would seem not.