Dress code.....

[jimandtoni]

In light of the fact the dress code for formal night is no longer required in Celebrity's specialty restaurants, I think it is just a matter of time before formal night is either totally eliminated or becomes optional. Especially considering that it use to be the other way around. There was a time that the minimum dress code in the specialty restaurants was the middle dress code, which no longer exists, when it was casual night in the main dining room.

You are probably right. Dressing formally was one of the things ( now,really, the ONLY thing) that made cruising different and special from other types of vacations. Eventualy, crusies will just be Sandals at sea. Someone on here postulated that the food on cruise lines has deteriorated not because of cost cutting, but rather because gourmet food is no longer necessary for nor appreciated by the "jeans are acceptable' crowd. Why would the cruise lines spend money on producing truly gourmet food when the "jeans" crowd prefers and accepts more mundane and less expensive cuisine? it is an interesting concept. I often read the reviews for the various cruise ships. More than occasionally, reviewers mention that their favorite foods on the ships were ice cream, pizza, and cheese burgers. Why serve , as Shakespeare said, "caviar to the general" when they prefer pizza???The "Specialty Restaurants" , which everyone agrees have superior service and cuisine to the MDR, now serve the food that used to be served consistently in the MDR. The general consensus in the travel business is that cruise ships will eventually (soon) have ONLY "for a fee Specialty restaurants." Look to NCL. Many experienced cruisers already believe NCL's MDR food is nearly inedible, forcing one to go to their Speicalty Restaurants. Just like Formal Night,food included cruises may soon become a thing of the past.

[cruzfanatic]

So because it's "one" negative to you, it should be changed to make sure "everything" is just the way "you" like it? Why take anyone else's feelings into consideration?

 

I don't quite get that mentality. I think it's great that Celebrity has provided so many new choices for people on board their ships and that has opened up our favorite cruiseline to people who never want to dress up for dinner. There are times that we might not want to dress formally and really love the fact that we can go elsewhere.

 

I will agree with one thing you said - it's about choice and taking more people's feelings into consideration. Changing the dress code to reflect the current times does nothing to prevent anyone from wearing a suit or gown on any evening. No one is saying you can't dress up and get as formal as you'd like. The dress code, as it stands now, is extremely exclusionary. Why don't we try to make the world a little more inclusive. It seems to me that some people want to hold strong to the idea that a happy culture is a classist culture. What a shame!

[terp4life]

I will agree with one thing you said - it's about choice and taking more people's feelings into consideration. Changing the dress code to reflect the current times does nothing to prevent anyone from wearing a suit or gown on any evening. No one is saying you can't dress up and get as formal as you'd like. The dress code, as it stands now, is extremely exclusionary. Why don't we try to make the world a little more inclusive. It seems to me that some people want to hold strong to the idea that a happy culture is a classist culture. What a shame!

 

I do not get this argument. No one is saying that people of all classes are not welcome. I do not find the dress code exclusionary, beause no one is forcing you to take this cruise or eat in the MDR. The MDR is the only place that you are required to be formal. There are plenty of other venues that are smart casual (Specialties, Bistro etc) there is the Oceanview Buffet which is casual and there is room service. You know what you are getting when you book, if you chose to exclude yourself from the MDR by not going formal then you made the choice. I am not saying you have to choose another line, so do not hit me with that standard reply. I am saying you know what you are paying for when you pay for it. You made the choice to book the vacation. So, live within the constraints of your contract. Abide by the dress code for 2 or 3 (on a longer cruise) measly nights or take advantage of the other options. The best food on the ship is not in the MDR anyway.

 

I am young by some cruising standards, mid thirties, I am no where approaching wealthy, upperclass or classist in my thinking. I cruise only every few years, because that is all I can afford. But I enjoy the formal nights. They are special. They are different. I know plenty more young people from different backgrounds who like the change of pace from our everyday lives. Isn't that what vacation is for - a change of pace from the everyday? I do not like the insinuation that only older stuffy people like to dress up, nor that all young people like to dress down. Every group has its people in both camps.

 

I was previously in the camp that I liked formal, I dress formal, but I do not care so much about those around me. The complete lack of respect for those that prefer to dress up has changed my mind. Because in the end, I do not want to see formal night disappear.

 

And although many of you are pro formal optional, and say those of us that like to "play dress up" will still have the option, that will never happen IMHO. It will be all or nothing. Either formal night will stay or it will disappear. I'd like to see it stay.

[Lsimon]

In light of the fact the dress code for formal night is no longer required in Celebrity's specialty restaurants, I think it is just a matter of time before formal night is either totally eliminated or becomes optional. Especially considering that it use to be the other way around. There was a time that the minimum dress code in the specialty restaurants was the middle dress code, which no longer exists, when it was casual night in the main dining room.

 

I'd argue just the opposite! I believe they changed the specialty restaurant dress code for the sole reason of being able to maintain the formal nights and at the same time provide more options for the minority that don't want to dress formally.

 

My position on this whole issue all along is that I just don't understand why people would, in effect, buy a ticket to a formal event and they complain that they don't want to dress formally! It just doesn't make any sense to me.

[bradpole]

I'd argue just the opposite! I believe they changed the specialty restaurant dress code for the sole reason of being able to maintain the formal nights and at the same time provide more options for the minority that don't want to dress formally.

 

My position on this whole issue all along is that I just don't understand why people would, in effect, buy a ticket to a formal event and they complain that they don't want to dress formally! It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

Because there are so many other reasons to take a cruise or a particular cruise line. Is there a ship or cruiseline that is absolutely perfect for everyone? I doubt it, I'm sure there is something you disagree with. Perhaps it is something as trivial as type of lounge chairs by the pool, the size of the balcony cabins, the size of gym, the type of spa services offered, the type of specialty restaurants, etc..., but you still book that ship eventhough there is one or two things that don't match you perfectly. For some it is the mandatory formal night in the MDR. I go along with it, for the sake of playing by the rules, but keep hoping it will become optional one day in the near future.

[tally10]

I'd argue just the opposite! I believe they changed the specialty restaurant dress code for the sole reason of being able to maintain the formal nights and at the same time provide more options for the minority that don't want to dress formally.

 

My position on this whole issue all along is that I just don't understand why people would, in effect, buy a ticket to a formal event and they complain that they don't want to dress formally! It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

If the minority were the only ones in the specialty restaurants on formal nights, Celebrity would be losing a lot of money (if so many people LOVE the formal nights). However, those of us who love Celebrity for a million other reasons may not wish to pay up to $70 for two to eat in the specialty restaurants (we do eat in Bistro). Why pay that kind of money to eat there when the food is just fine in the MDR? We do comply with "the rules," but we would like to see "the rules" changed. What you seem to miss is that the formal nights are just a minor consideration when booking a cruise. Why should we look elsewhere if the price is cheaper than other lines, the service is better, it is mostly non-smoking, and the itineraries are what we are looking for? That is why we buy Celebrity's "ticket.":confused:

[Bridge Maven]

I'd argue just the opposite! I believe they changed the specialty restaurant dress code for the sole reason of being able to maintain the formal nights and at the same time provide more options for the minority that don't want to dress formally.

 

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LSimon, that is an interesting interpretation of why Celebrity changed the dress code policy for their specialty restaurants. You may be right. Even so, it still doesn't make sense to me that Celebrity now allows people to dress more casually in their elegant specialty restaurants, which are comparable to an upscale land based restaurant, than in their mundane main dining. Another possible interpretation is that they think that people who dine at upscale land based restaurants are more likely to dress more casually than the typical passenger aboard a Celebrity ship.

[terp4life]

I'd argue just the opposite! I believe they changed the specialty restaurant dress code for the sole reason of being able to maintain the formal nights and at the same time provide more options for the minority that don't want to dress formally.

 

My position on this whole issue all along is that I just don't understand why people would, in effect, buy a ticket to a formal event and they complain that they don't want to dress formally! It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

I hope your interpretation is right.

[jimandtoni]

I do not get this argument. No one is saying that people of all classes are not welcome. I do not find the dress code exclusionary, beause no one is forcing you to take this cruise or eat in the MDR. The MDR is the only place that you are required to be formal. There are plenty of other venues that are smart casual (Specialties, Bistro etc) there is the Oceanview Buffet which is casual and there is room service. You know what you are getting when you book, if you chose to exclude yourself from the MDR by not going formal then you made the choice. I am not saying you have to choose another line, so do not hit me with that standard reply. I am saying you know what you are paying for when you pay for it. You made the choice to book the vacation. So, live within the constraints of your contract. Abide by the dress code for 2 or 3 (on a longer cruise) measly nights or take advantage of the other options. The best food on the ship is not in the MDR anyway.

 

I am young by some cruising standards, mid thirties, I am no where approaching wealthy, upperclass or classist in my thinking. I cruise only every few years, because that is all I can afford. But I enjoy the formal nights. They are special. They are different. I know plenty more young people from different backgrounds who like the change of pace from our everyday lives. Isn't that what vacation is for - a change of pace from the everyday? I do not like the insinuation that only older stuffy people like to dress up, nor that all young people like to dress down. Every group has its people in both camps.

 

I was previously in the camp that I liked formal, I dress formal, but I do not care so much about those around me. The complete lack of respect for those that prefer to dress up has changed my mind. Because in the end, I do not want to see formal night disappear.

 

And although many of you are pro formal optional, and say those of us that like to "play dress up" will still have the option, that will never happen IMHO. It will be all or nothing. Either formal night will stay or it will disappear. I'd like to see it stay.

I agree.

[perrpis]

After dinner, as we have done in the past, we will go back to our cabin and change into ..(...) a tshirt that advertises.;)

 

Shame on you. It is a real shame that people are going this way. Pure laziness.... you should book on carnival.

[iancal]

To those who say that people who do not wish to attend formal events should not cruise on Celebrity I would ask if formal dress is the ONE AND ONLY attribute of Celebrity??? Is there nothing else that you would enable you to recommend Celebrity to your friends??

 

We like Celebrity very much. Sometimes we do take formal wear. If we do, we change after dinner into casual clothes. Other times, and now more often than not, our idea of a vacation is not to lug around formal clothing for a few hours of use and play dress up on our winter vacation.

 

And to those of you who continue to mention Carnivial, on our only cruise on Carnival Spirit we saw as many people dressed formally as we would on a Celebrity or Princess cruise.

 

If we do attend formal night dinners we are dressed accordingly. However, we could not care less if others at our table are not. It does not ruin our evening, it does not ruin our cruise. Nor do we think that these 'terrible' people should be on another ship. Life is just too short to spent time judging others....especially on vacation.

[Rick-cruiser]

....

[terp4life]

To those who say that people who do not wish to attend formal events should not cruise on Celebrity I would ask if formal dress is the ONE AND ONLY attribute of Celebrity??? Is there nothing else that you would enable you to recommend Celebrity to your friends??

How many times are the anti-formal people going to say the same thing? I have seen a few people say take another cruiseline. I have seen just as many say stick with X, but follow the code in the MDR or take advantage of one of the many other options available to you. There are other options! I would get the anti formal side's argument more if you had no other option. But that is not the case.

 

Formal dress is not the only reason we sail with X but it sure is a perk in our opinion.

 

...

Life is just too short to spent time judging others....especially on vacation.

 

I am judging no one for their choice of clothes or anything else. People who complain about rules they agree too I do not understand. Not judging, just do not understand why one complains about X's dress code they not only agreed to in writing, but paid for the vacation upfront and willingly.

[bradpole]

Shame on you. It is a real shame that people are going this way. Pure laziness.... you should book on carnival.

 

We don't enjoy formal night.. period! Formal night is a non event, it is a meaningless tradition to many people. We get no enjoyment playing dress up for the benefit of other people.

 

There are many people that will dress up and tolerate a couple hours for dinner in the MDR and then change. It would be so much more simple if we didn't have to put play dress up just for dinner, but the pro formal night crowd seems incapable of enjoying a meal unless everyone is dressed just like them.

 

If formal night is so important why isn't every night formal?

 

And for the record, Carnival passengers dress pretty darn nice on their optional formal night, or as they call it "elegant night."

 

If formal night became optional there would probably be a handful of people who wore at a minimum khakis and a polo shirt. Are those handful of people really going to ruin your dinner or evening?

[bradpole]

How many times are the anti-formal people going to say the same thing? I have seen a few people say take another cruiseline. I have seen just as many say stick with X, but follow the code in the MDR or take advantage of one of the many other options available to you. There are other options! I would get the anti formal side's argument more if you had no other option. But that is not the case.

 

Formal dress is not the only reason we sail with X but it sure is a perk in our opinion.

 

Why should someone have to dine someplace else 2 nights? Because the clothes they are wearing the other 5 nights aren't good enough? It just doesn't make sense. If my clothes are good enough on Sunday night they should be fine Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, etc...

 

I'm glad you consider formal night a perk, I wish I could, I just don't enjoy it. But there is no reason you can't dress up! Yes I am on the pro casual side, but at no time am I advocating that you can't dress up, you can whenever you want!

[SusieV]

We don't enjoy formal night.. period! Formal night is a non event, it is a meaningless tradition to many people. We get no enjoyment playing dress up for the benefit of other people.

 

There are many people that will dress up and tolerate a couple hours for dinner in the MDR and then change. It would be so much more simple if we didn't have to put play dress up just for dinner, but the pro formal night crowd seems incapable of enjoying a meal unless everyone is dressed just like them.

 

If formal night is so important why isn't every night formal?

 

And for the record, Carnival passengers dress pretty darn nice on their optional formal night, or as they call it "elegant night."

 

If formal night became optional there would probably be a handful of people who wore at a minimum khakis and a polo shirt. Are those handful of people really going to ruin your dinner or evening?

 

I really think you are being very selfish. Like people have said many, many times- you have other options. You can choose room service for MDR food, you have the Aqua Spa Cafe, the Oceanview Cafe, and the Mast Grill for dinner free of charge, plus the specialty restaurants if you wish to eat there.

 

Right now, there is only one single restaurant on the whole ship where you need to be attired formally- and that's only 2-3 nights a cruise anyway! You have SO many choices to avoid formal even if you prefer Celebrity.

 

Really, what's the big deal? Does absolutely everything have to be your way? Honestly- I feel like I am trying to reason with my toddler and explain the world doesn't revolve around him.

[cruzfanatic]

And although many of you are pro formal optional, and say those of us that like to "play dress up" will still have the option, that will never happen IMHO. It will be all or nothing. Either formal night will stay or it will disappear. I'd like to see it stay.

 

I don't get this at all. How does making formal wear an option mean it will disappear. No one is suggesting that you, and anyone else so inclined, cannot choose to wear formal clothes. In fact, it would be welcome. And, for those of us who choose not to dress formally, we would be welcome too. Maybe the problem is that there are fewer and fewer people who want to "play dress up" and the only thing forcing them to do so is a rule that the majority of people want to change. If the majority of people still want to dress formally and would do so voluntarily (which I highly doubt), then creating a formal night that is optional should not change a thing.

[ORV]

Drums keep pounding rhythm to the brain

Ladadadi Ladadada

 

 

 

I can't remember when I have seen a thread where the the same thing has been posted by the same posters so many times.

[terp4life]

I don't get this at all. How does making formal wear an option mean it will disappear. No one is suggesting that you, and anyone else so inclined, cannot choose to wear formal clothes. In fact, it would be welcome. And, for those of us who choose not to dress formally, we would be welcome too. Maybe the problem is that there are fewer and fewer people who want to "play dress up" and the only thing forcing them to do so is a rule that the majority of people want to change. If the majority of people still want to dress formally and would do so voluntarily (which I highly doubt), then creating a formal night that is optional should not change a thing.

 

You quoted my words, but did you read them? I do not believe X will go to a formal optional system. I believe that they will either keep 1 or more formal nights (I think reducing to 1 is a possibility) or they will do away with formal nights entirely.

 

I do not think the Majority of cruisers want the rules changed. If they do, so be it. Then people will make a choice about what to wear/how formal to dress. But, formal night creates an elegant/formal atmosphere that is achieved when many passengers are observing it. When you say dress up whenever you want you are eliminating that possibility. You can't put a gown on and go to Applebees and say you are having an elegant experience.

 

I agree with SusieV. Trying to reason with those of you opposed to formal night is starting to feel like fighting with my 2 and 4 year olds. You have choices, choose among them. My toddlers do not get to choose cookies for dinner when I have offered pasta or chicken. You chose X. You know what that means, you have many options besides the MDR on formal night. Choose from the options you agreed to in accepting your cruise contract and act like a grown up stop - begging for more.

[perrpis]

The point here is that why would some people knowingly sign up for a cruise that does have formal nights and then tottaly dis-respect the dress code and complain about it. If you do not want to follow the rules, which by purchasing the voyage, you inherantly agreed to, then their are quite simply 3 options. You A) Dont choose to cruise on Celebrity or any line which specifies a specific dress code that you do not want to adhere to B) Eat at the buffet which is specifically designated for casual wear or C) Eat in the specialty resturants and wear business casual attire. (and for those who say they should not be forced to pay extra to dine in an enviroment which is conducive to how they choose to dress- I again remind you that you purchaed the voyage knowing ahead of time of these stipulations)

 

To put it in to perspective:

- I would not book a Disney cruise and then complain their are too many kids.

-I would not book with Costa and complain that the menus were too Italian

-I would not book with Cunard and complain that the decor is too "old world"

-I would not book with Seabourn and demand that they add a wave rider

 

It is not about those who wish to dress up looking "down" upon those who wear jeans to the MDR but rather those Jean and T-Shirt wearers having respect for the rest of us who are just asking for what we knowingly signed up for....

[bradpole]

The point here is that why would some people knowingly sign up for a cruise that does have formal nights and then tottaly dis-respect the dress code and complain about it. If you do not want to follow the rules, which by purchasing the voyage, you inherantly agreed to, then their are quite simply 3 options. You A) Dont choose to cruise on Celebrity or any line which specifies a specific dress code that you do not want to adhere to B) Eat at the buffet which is specifically designated for casual wear or C) Eat in the specialty resturants and wear business casual attire. (and for those who say they should not be forced to pay extra to dine in an enviroment which is conducive to how they choose to dress- I again remind you that you purchaed the voyage knowing ahead of time of these stipulations)

 

To put it in to persepctive:

- I would not book a Disney cruise and then complain their are too many kids.

-I would not book with Costa and complain that the menus were too Italian

-I would not book with Cunard and complain that the decor is too "old world"

-I would not book with Seabourn and demand that they add a wave rider

 

It is not about those who wish to dress up looking "down" upon those who wear jeans to the MDR but rather those Jean and T-Shirt wearers having respect for the rest of us who are just asking for what we knowingly signed up for....

 

I am not disrespecting the precious dress code, why cruise lines even need dress codes is a whole other matter. If I choose to eat in the MDR on formal night I will play along. My argument is those who don't want to dress up shouldn't be forced to just to have an enjoyable sit down dinner. There is no harm in a man not wearing a suit to dinner.

 

If formal night is TRULY such a cherished tradition for Celebrity what is the harm in making it optional? If it is optional and EVERYONE TRULY loves it than there shouldn't be more than a handful, at most, of people who won't be wearing true formal attire.

 

I agree with your examples with "To put it in to perspective" Those cruise lines are KNOWN for those things. Disney = kids, Costa = Italian food, etc.. Using that same logic I could ask you, There is truly nothing that separates Celebrity apart from every other cruise line besides formal night?

[tally10]

You quoted my words, but did you read them? I do not believe X will go to a formal optional system. I believe that they will either keep 1 or more formal nights (I think reducing to 1 is a possibility) or they will do away with formal nights entirely.

 

I do not think the Majority of cruisers want the rules changed. If they do, so be it. Then people will make a choice about what to wear/how formal to dress. But, formal night creates an elegant/formal atmosphere that is achieved when many passengers are observing it. When you say dress up whenever you want you are eliminating that possibility. You can't put a gown on and go to Applebees and say you are having an elegant experience.

 

I agree with SusieV. Trying to reason with those of you opposed to formal night is starting to feel like fighting with my 2 and 4 year olds. You have choices, choose among them. My toddlers do not get to choose cookies for dinner when I have offered pasta or chicken. You chose X. You know what that means, you have many options besides the MDR on formal night. Choose from the options you agreed to in accepting your cruise contract and act like a grown up stop - begging for more.

 

Not to enrage anymore pro-formal night people, but we could say the same thing you say. We are not bucking "the rules." We do comply (like the Borg on the old Star Trek Next Generation) and be assimilated. However, change is good and the cruise line cannot afford to be stagnant when they want to attract new cruise passengers. Other than letting Celebrity directly know how a lot of us feel, which I know we do by our emails and comment cards, etc, this is a good forum for letting our feelings be known. If they want to change things, they will, and we will all be here when or if it happens. Can't anyone have an opinion if it doesn't match your or other pro-formal night people's opinions?

[PS90]

To put it in to perspective:

- I would not book a Disney cruise and then complain their are too many kids.

-I would not book with Costa and complain that the menus were too Italian

-I would not book with Cunard and complain that the decor is too "old world"

-I would not book with Seabourn and demand that they add a wave rider

 

But would you book Disney because you think it would be best for YOUR kids, but then complain about the food?

 

Or would you book Cunard because you LIKE Italian food, but then complain about the shore excursions?

 

All those examples you gave are what many people consider to be the major descriptor of those particular cruise lines - but I completely disagree that Celebrity's number one "claim to fame" is the fact that they still have formal nights on 20% of their nights on-board.

 

So for me, YES, I would book Celebrity for the food, or the service, or the ship's amenities, and then complain about the dress code.

[redridinghood]

I don't get this at all. How does making formal wear an option mean it will disappear. No one is suggesting that you, and anyone else so inclined, cannot choose to wear formal clothes. In fact, it would be welcome. And, for those of us who choose not to dress formally, we would be welcome too. Maybe the problem is that there are fewer and fewer people who want to "play dress up" and the only thing forcing them to do so is a rule that the majority of people want to change. If the majority of people still want to dress formally and would do so voluntarily (which I highly doubt), then creating a formal night that is optional should not change a thing.

 

If it becomes optional then it because rather daunting for those of us who like to dress in formal attire. We run the risk of walking into the MDR and be stared at and ridiculed for being 'over-dressed' in comparison to everyone else. The fact that you like to tell us we are playing 'dress-up' just re-iterates that lack of respect that you have for those of us that like the tradition of formal nights. I am in my 30's (not old and stuffy) and love the sense of occasion that a formal night brings, but it only really has that if the majority take part in it. On our recent cruise on Eclipse I toned down the formal on all but 1 of the nights as we felt out of place in our really formal wear, my husband continued to wear his tux and got lots of approving nods from ladies. I felt slightly awkward and difficult as I do not like being stared at.

 

Sailing on a ship with formal nights to me is akin to accepting invites to black tie events on land. You go if you like that sort of thing and you don't if you don't. I am finding this argument on here baffling. As a poster before me said, it's akin to arguing with an unreasonable toddler...

[bradpole]

If it becomes optional then it because rather daunting for those of us who like to dress in formal attire. We run the risk of walking into the MDR and be stared at and ridiculed for being 'over-dressed' in comparison to everyone else. The fact that you like to tell us we are playing 'dress-up' just re-iterates that lack of respect that you have for those of us that like the tradition of formal nights. I am in my 30's (not old and stuffy) and love the sense of occasion that a formal night brings, but it only really has that if the majority take part in it. On our recent cruise on Eclipse I toned down the formal on all but 1 of the nights as we felt out of place in our really formal wear, my husband continued to wear his tux and got lots of approving nods from ladies. I felt slightly awkward and difficult as I do not like being stared at.

 

Sailing on a ship with formal nights to me is akin to accepting invites to black tie events on land. You go if you like that sort of thing and you don't if you don't. I am finding this argument on here baffling. As a poster before me said, it's akin to arguing with an unreasonable toddler...

 

I find it hard to believe that you could or would be ridiculed for being dressed formally, on any night of any cruise!