Cruiseco can you help ?

[wieslaw]

Hello Cruiseco,

I would like to ask for some guidance in purchasing travel insurance for a cruise.

 

Lets say there are two people ( 70 and 69) going on a 8 day cruise on RCI's ship , air is paid with 'points' ( not insurable) so is not part of the total cost, which is about 800 p/p ( cruise and prepaid hotel).

Both have additional to Medicare, medical insurance which covers medical expenses on ship and out of the US (land) - not sure what are the upper limits.

 

What insurance should they be looking for to buy ? the insurance offered by RCI at 59 p/p ( I think it is Berkly) which is not based on age and it has low medical and low med. evacuation ( and it is secondary) or should they look for something with more expensive premium but also with 'bigger' coverage for medical expenses and evacuation ? Should it be a primary - regardless of the 'home' medical ins. ?

 

Some of the companies ( looking at the ( insuremytrip) are not very clear if they do or do not cover preexisting conditions on people 70 ..... ( even when the premium is paid right after the cruise booking) most 70 ty old youngsters do have the usual high blood pressure or high cholestorol ( and are on some medications) that could be connected to whatever might happen next .

 

Cruiseco if you were going on a cruise sometimes in Dec. and were in that age group ( I know that you are not) what insurance would you buy ?

Thank you,

Wes

[klfrodo]

Just to help Cruiseco out,,, when did you first make your initial deposit on the cruise and when did you make air travel arrangements even though you used points?

[wieslaw]

Just to help Cruiseco out,,, when did you first make your initial deposit on the cruise and when did you make air travel arrangements even though you used points?

 

Hi, thank you for your response.

initial deposit on a cruise - small portion 2 years ago (next cruise - no specific date) and rest of the deposit on the 'now' converted to a specific date cruise - last night.

Air reservation is still 'on hold' but it will be converted / redeemed to the "Award Ticket" later today.

Hotel reservation will be done in the next few days.

 

Wes

[cruiseco]

Hello Cruiseco,

I would like to ask for some guidance in purchasing travel insurance for a cruise.

 

Lets say there are two people ( 70 and 69) going on a 8 day cruise on RCI's ship , air is paid with 'points' ( not insurable) so is not part of the total cost, which is about 800 p/p ( cruise and prepaid hotel).

Both have additional to Medicare, medical insurance which covers medical expenses on ship and out of the US (land) - not sure what are the upper limits.

 

What insurance should they be looking for to buy ? the insurance offered by RCI at 59 p/p ( I think it is Berkly) which is not based on age and it has low medical and low med. evacuation ( and it is secondary) or should they look for something with more expensive premium but also with 'bigger' coverage for medical expenses and evacuation ? Should it be a primary - regardless of the 'home' medical ins. ?

 

Some of the companies ( looking at the ( insuremytrip) are not very clear if they do or do not cover preexisting conditions on people 70 ..... ( even when the premium is paid right after the cruise booking) most 70 ty old youngsters do have the usual high blood pressure or high cholestorol ( and are on some medications) that could be connected to whatever might happen next .

 

Cruiseco if you were going on a cruise sometimes in Dec. and were in that age group ( I know that you are not) what insurance would you buy ?

Thank you,

Wes

 

I wouldn't presume to recommend a specific plan but let's take a look at what I think would be one good option -- TravelSafe's Classic plan. It's especially good for coverage for missing the ship which, coming from Michigan in the winter could possibly be your most likely risk. It sounds like you're flying to the departure port at least a day in advance which is the smart thing to do but a good blizzard up there can foul things up for a couple of days.

 

The missed connection coverage is very good:

 

"Missed Connection: If You miss Your cruise or tour departure because Your arrival at Your Trip destination is delayed for 3 or more hours, benefits will be paid, on a one-time basis, up to the Maximum Benefit Amount, for a) the Additional Transportation Cost to join the Trip and b) the unused portion of the prepaid expenses for land or water Travel Arrangements, due to: a) any delay of a Common Carrier (the delay must be certified by the Common Carrier); b) a documented weather condition preventing You from getting to the point of departure; c) quarantine, hijacking, Strike, natural disaster, terrorism or riot. "

 

1) The benefit is $2500 per person which is about the highest you'll find.

2) It only requires a delay of 3 hours or more

3) Covers ANY delay of your common carrier

4) Covers the cost of catching up with the ship PLUS the value of the missed days of the cruise

 

Yes, they will cover pre-existing conditions for those in your age bracket as long as you meet their requirements for the waiver of this exclusion:

 

"Waiver of the Pre-Existing Condition Exclusion (Only Available To Persons Under Age 80)

 

The exclusion for Pre-Existing Conditions will be waived if this plan is purchased within 21 days of the date Your initial Trip deposit is paid. Note : This waiver does not apply for persons age 80 or older. "

 

Note that you don't have to insure all of your trip cost.

 

The emergency evacuation benefit limit is $1,000,000. I think that's way high and would be fine with $500,000 or even $250,000 if going to the Caribbean or Mexico.

 

If you have to cancel they will reimburse you for the cost of having those frequent flyer miles put back in your account:

 

"Trip Cancellation : Benefits will be paid, up to the Maximum Benefit Amount shown in the Schedule of Benefits, to cover You for the unused non-refundable prepaid expenses for Travel Arrangements, including up to $150 for the cost of airline-imposed fees to rebank frequent flyer miles for air flights to join Your Trip when You are prevented from taking Your Trip due to: . . . "

 

The medical coverage is secondary to the coverage you already have in place. To me that's a non-issue. In the rare event that I do have to see a doctor during the cruise I won't mind having to spend an extra half hour filling out claim forms twice. Others disagree.

 

It's definitely more expensive that the RCI coverage. The 69 yrear old would pay $74, the 70 year old pays $115. But it does address all of the concerns you have.

 

Anyway, when you're comparing other plans those are the specific coverages I'd be looking to get.

[wieslaw]

Cruiseco , thank you .

I do appreciate and value your opinion and suggestions.

Cruise Critic / we are lucky to have you.

Wes

 

"The exclusion for Pre-Existing Conditions will be waived if this plan is purchased within 21 days of the date Your initial Trip deposit is paid." - would the 'initial' deposit paid for the 'next cruise' on board the ship be considered by the insurance company as "initial Trip deposit" or the date that the rest of deposit was paid for the converted to a specific date cruise? The initial "booking Date" is shown on the Booking Confirmation -Guest Copy that was issued last night.

 

One more thing: if the 69 old turns 70 during the cruise - how the insurance look at that ?

[cruiseco]

"The exclusion for Pre-Existing Conditions will be waived if this plan is purchased within 21 days of the date Your initial Trip deposit is paid." - would the 'initial' deposit paid for the 'next cruise' on board the ship be considered by the insurance company as "initial Trip deposit" or the date that the rest of deposit was paid for the converted to a specific date cruise? The initial "booking Date" is shown on the Booking Confirmation -Guest Copy that was issued last night.

 

One more thing: if the 69 old turns 70 during the cruise - how the insurance look at that ?

 

The age used to determine the premiums is the age at the time the policy is purchased, not at the time of travel.

 

As far as the other question, I don't know. My general feeling would be that the clock starts the moment you made that first payment to the cruise line way back when. If you have to cancel they'll ask for "proof of payment" -- credit card receipts or cancelled checks and will normally use those to establish the the initial payment date.

 

However, I've have read stories from others that their insurer used the date the specific cruise was officially chosen. If it was me, no matter what insurer I used I'd get an answer to that question in writing beforehand. Send them an email and see what they say.

[wieslaw]

.

 

As far as the other question, I don't know. My general feeling would be that the clock starts the moment you made that first payment to the cruise line way back when. If you have to cancel they'll ask for "proof of payment" -- credit card receipts or cancelled checks and will normally use those to establish the the initial payment date.

 

However, I've have read stories from others that their insurer used the date the specific cruise was officially chosen. If it was me, no matter what insurer I used I'd get an answer to that question in writing beforehand. Send them an email and see what they say.

 

Hello again,

I just called TravelSafe and talked to someone explaining my concern. That person was not 100% sure but 'his' interpretation of "initial trip deposit" was the date two years ago aboard the ship.

He considered the original booking number that was issued at that time ( May of 2009) and still being used on the 'converted' specific booking as the factor that deposit was made for the same booking number, so the initial process got started then.

That person that I talked with suggested to write to them - which I did.

If he was correct, that sort of booking ( aboard the ship) might have some negative impact on so many that purchase cruises during their stay aboard the ship.

 

I will share with you the answer that I hope to get from the insurance company ....... and if one company looks at the "initial trip deposit' that way ..... the others migh too.

 

I am not really sure how much concern should I have with the waiver. I do not fully understand what the insurance company looks at as being a problem and preexisting condition.

Let say one has elevated blood pressure that is controled with medication ...... and lets say that person gets a cardiac arrest before a cruise / or during the cruise - would the insurance consider the previous blood pressure as a preexisting condition for the arrest ? and refuse to cover any expenses ?

I do not know what they consider to be a normal aging process, or sickness.... and what they look for if there is a claim .

Cruiseco, thank you again.

Wes

[cruiseco]

Hello again,

I just called TravelSafe and talked to someone explaining my concern. That person was not 100% sure but 'his' interpretation of "initial trip deposit" was the date two years ago aboard the ship.

He considered the original booking number that was issued at that time ( May of 2009) and still being used on the 'converted' specific booking as the factor that deposit was made for the same booking number, so the initial process got started then.

That person that I talked with suggested to write to them - which I did.

If he was correct, that sort of booking ( aboard the ship) might have some negative impact on so many that purchase cruises during their stay aboard the ship.

 

I will share with you the answer that I hope to get from the insurance company ....... and if one company looks at the "initial trip deposit' that way ..... the others migh too.

 

I am not really sure how much concern should I have with the waiver. I do not fully understand what the insurance company looks at as being a problem and preexisting condition.

Let say one has elevated blood pressure that is controled with medication ...... and lets say that person gets a cardiac arrest before a cruise / or during the cruise - would the insurance consider the previous blood pressure as a preexisting condition for the arrest ? and refuse to cover any expenses ?

I do not know what they consider to be a normal aging process, or sickness.... and what they look for if there is a claim .

Cruiseco, thank you again.

Wes

 

Here's the TravelSafe definition of a pre-existing condition:

 

""Pre-Existing Condition" means any injury, sickness or condition (including any condition from which death ensues) of You, Your Traveling Companion, or Your or Your Traveling Companion's Family Member traveling with You which within the 60 day period prior to the effective date of Your Trip Cancellation coverage under the Policy:

(a) manifested itself, became acute or exhibited symptoms which would have caused one to seek diagnosis, care or treatment;

(b) required taking prescribed drugs or medicine, unless the condition for which the prescribed drug or medicine is taken remains controlled without any change in the required prescription; or

© required medical treatment or treatment was recommended by a Legally Qualified Physician. "

 

Here's what to look for:

 

First of all, you'll note that the definition only applies to you, a traveling companion, or a family member traveling with you. It does NOT apply to a non-traveling family member. This is hugely consumer-friendly as you don't need to know the health status of your close family members when you buy a policy. If Grandma dies right before you sail and you have to cancel the cruise it doesn't matter if the cause of death was something she had previously -- the exclusion simply does not apply to her.

 

Next is the time frame they look at to determine if something is pre-existing or not. With this company they only look at the 60 day period prior to the effective date of your policy's cancellation coverage. What's that?

 

"For Trip Cancellation: Coverage begins on Your "Effective Date" which is at 12:01 a.m. on the date the appropriate cost for this policy for Your Trip is received and ends at the point and time of departure on Your Scheduled Departure Date. "

 

So if you buy a policy today it's effective at midnight tonight. So they would count back 60 days from that point to figure if something is pre-existing or not.

 

In your case it sounds like your blood pressure situation really is a pre-existing condition according to (b) in the definition above as you're taking prescription meds.

 

But, the bolded part of that part (b) is what saves you. Assuming that there has been no change in your condition in that 60 day period -- no change in the prescription, no change in the treatment, no change in the diagnosis, no change in the prognosis -- then if the condition acted up and caused you to cancel the cruise your claim would NOT be denied as being a "pre-existing condition."

 

At some point just about everyone is taking a pill for this or that and if the insurers excluded every one of them they'd never sell a policy. What they want to know is are you stable? 99% of the time those taking meds for high blood pressure won't have any problems and will go on their cruise as planned as long as their condition is stable as of the date they buy the policy. Sure, they'll get burned once in a while but that's the chance they take. Just charge everyone a buck or two more to make up for the added risk exposure.

[wieslaw]

Cruiseco, you have a way of explaining things, that make sense to me and I can 'live with' and be comfortable with the explanation of some of the waivers and conditions.

On my own I read the insurance rules and explanations, and read them again .......... and often I still do not know what I am getting or not getting in coverage.

I just buy the insurance and hope that I do not have to use it - but with your help I am more aware what I should be looking for before the purchase of the insurance.

Cruiseco, you are a big help to me - thank you.

Wes

[wieslaw]

Hello Cruiseco,

I just got an email from the insurace company with an answer about what they consider as the date of the initial deposit although they only refer to it as a deposit. It seems that this answer is different from the verbal one. I did explain to them in my email about the booking and deposit done on board the ship two years ago and the same booking number issued then was still beig used with the 'now active' reservation

I also asked them in my email to them about what should be included in the "total cost' of the trip - so there is an answer in their email to that to.

Here is a copy of their letter - I hope that it is OK to 'show' that letter since it does not contain any specific names.

 

Hello,

 

 

We would consider the deposit date to be the date the reservation “went live”, ie the date a specific cruise was reserved.

What we will be looking for if there is a claim is a copy of the booking confirmation for the booked cruise and airfare showing the date the reservations were confirmed.

The total trip cost would be the combination of the full cost of the non-refundable trip costs as booked for the cruise, air, hotel, etc. (even if only a deposit has been paid). The taxes on a cruise and Skymiles ticket are generally refundable (please confirm with suppliers), if there are any booking fees to make the reservation you would want to insure that amount as well.

Depending on the plan purchased (F925C for example) we can also consider up to $150 for the cost to re-banks the miles so that amount would need to be insured as well.

Please note, all benefits are subject to our confirmation of the purchase of the plan, the written claim documentation and the plan provisions.

xxxxxx xxxx Insurance

I just put the 'x' in place of the name of the insurace company but it was the insurance company that 'we' consider of purchasing their policy.

 

 

[cruiseco]

Hello Cruiseco,

I just got an email from the insurace company with an answer about what they consider as the date of the initial deposit although they only refer to it as a deposit. It seems that this answer is different from the verbal one. I did explain to them in my email about the booking and deposit done on board the ship two years ago and the same booking number issued then was still beig used with the 'now active' reservation

I also asked them in my email to them about what should be included in the "total cost' of the trip - so there is an answer in their email to that to.

Here is a copy of their letter - I hope that it is OK to 'show' that letter since it does not contain any specific names.

 

Hello,

 

 

We would consider the deposit date to be the date the reservation “went live”, ie the date a specific cruise was reserved.

What we will be looking for if there is a claim is a copy of the booking confirmation for the booked cruise and airfare showing the date the reservations were confirmed.

The total trip cost would be the combination of the full cost of the non-refundable trip costs as booked for the cruise, air, hotel, etc. (even if only a deposit has been paid). The taxes on a cruise and Skymiles ticket are generally refundable (please confirm with suppliers), if there are any booking fees to make the reservation you would want to insure that amount as well.

Depending on the plan purchased (F925C for example) we can also consider up to $150 for the cost to re-banks the miles so that amount would need to be insured as well.

Please note, all benefits are subject to our confirmation of the purchase of the plan, the written claim documentation and the plan provisions.

xxxxxx xxxx Insurance

I just put the 'x' in place of the name of the insurace company but it was the insurance company that 'we' consider of purchasing their policy.

 

 

 

Good thing you took the time to email them and get a written response -- it's always a little nerve wracking to get two different answers to one question from one company.

 

When it comes to the trip cost to be insured it's always important to ask the right question. If you ask them "how much should I insure" you'll always get the above answer. In regards to the pre-existing condition waiver it best to ask them "how much do I HAVE TO insure" which can be something completely different. They may not require that you insure everything but they'll never tell you that. Just a couple of dollars difference can mean a huge windfall for them. For example, for a 65 year-old insuring a trip cost of $2005 the premium is $172. If he only insures $2000 it drops to $137. So it will cost him $35 to insure that last $5. Insurers dream about those types of situations.

 

Read the plan's definition of the pre-existing condition waiver and see what must be insured. With some plans you'd have to insure that $5 and with others (like TravelSafe) you won't. But they'll never volunteer that information. Here's from their fine print:

 

"Waiver of the Pre-Existing Condition Exclusion (Only Available To Persons Under Age 80)

The exclusion for Pre-Existing Conditions will be waived if this plan is purchased within 21 days of the date Your initial Trip deposit is paid. Note : This waiver does not apply for persons age 80 or older. "

 

They can't come back to you later and say "By the way, you also need to insure every dollar of your trip cost. We just forgot to add that in". If you need to insure every dollar to get the waiver they must tell you that.

[wieslaw]

Hello again and as always thanks for giving me more good 'pointers'.

There is another area of the total cost that I am not sure how to handle it.

Let say I booked a cruise and got the insurance for the total cost based on the cruise, air and hotel ...... a week or a month later, the cruise line has a 'special' and offers a higher category cabin for just say 50 dol more - and I buy that upgrade, ...... or the other way the price went down .

How do I adjust the insurane amount that has been insured at the time of the insurance purchase ?

Wes

[cruiseco]

Hello again and as always thanks for giving me more good 'pointers'.

There is another area of the total cost that I am not sure how to handle it.

Let say I booked a cruise and got the insurance for the total cost based on the cruise, air and hotel ...... a week or a month later, the cruise line has a 'special' and offers a higher category cabin for just say 50 dol more - and I buy that upgrade, ...... or the other way the price went down .

How do I adjust the insurane amount that has been insured at the time of the insurance purchase ?

Wes

 

It depends on what point you're starting at. Say you originally insure $2300 and the fare drops to $2200. You're still in the $2001 - $2500 trip cost bracket so you really don't have to bother doing anything.

 

But if you originally insured $2300 and the fare drops $500 putting you in the $1501 - $2000 bracket I'd definitely give the insurer a call to have the trip cost adjusted and the difference in the premium credited back to your credit card. To the best of my knowledge they will all do this although some will require something in writing from you any time you reduce your trip cost.

 

Now say you originally insured $2300 and with the upgrade your cost is now $2400. Definitely call the insurer and have them increase your insured trip cost. If you don't and have to cancel the most you'd be able to claim is that original $2300 -- you'd eat the extra $100. And since the $100 bump in the trip cost doesn't shove you up into the next higher trip cost/premium bracket you won't be charged any additional premium. There's no downside other than the time it takes to make the call.

 

If you originally insure $2900 and the upgrade makes the new trip cost $3025 and you're worried about qualifying for the pre-existing condition waiver you need to know if you HAVE TO insure your full trip cost. Ideally, you would just bump the insured trip cost up to $3000 and pay no additional premium -- you're almost always going to be better off just self-insuring that last $25. If you lose it, you lose it. But don't pay $35 to insure that $25 unless you absolutely have to to keep the waiver in place.

 

If I'm insuring something like $2750 I would always round it up to $3000 right at the start (assuming there no additional cost) to minimize having to worry about these things.

 

Be very careful about when you make these adjustments. For example, this is from Travel Guard:

 

"The Insurer will waive this exclusion if the Insured

meets the following conditions:

 

1. You purchase the program

within 15 days of making the initial Trip payment. Day one is the date the initial Trip payment is received;

2. The amount of Trip Cancellation coverage purchased at that time equals the full cost

of all pre-paid non-refundable trip arrangements. The cost of any subsequent arrangement(s) added to the same Trip must be insured within 15 days of the date of payment or deposit for any subsequent Trip arrangement(s). Failure to do so may affect the pre-existing medical condition waiver coverage;

3. You must be medically able to travel when plan cost is paid; and

4. Applies to the first $30,000 of Trip cost per person."

 

So with these guys you DO have to insure all of your pre-paid, non-refundable trip costs and any subsequent arrangements have to be added to the policy within 15 days of them being paid for. If you dawdle and add the new arrangements to the insured trip cost a few weeks too late not only are you losing the pre-existing condition coverage for these new arrangements but you are also losing the pre-existing condition coverage you already had for the original trip arrangements. This is one reason why I like plans like TravelSafe that don't make you insure all of your trip costs -- there's just fewer land mines to navigate in keeping it all straight. I'd hate to lose my pre-existing condition coverage over a simple addition error.

[cruiseco]

I just want to clarify one thing -- in this thread we are discussing one plan as it applies to a resident of Michigan. If you are a resident of another state it might be different for you. For example, this is from the state exceptions for Missouri:

 

"The Pre-Existing Conditions exclusion is waived for You if the Insured enrolls You in the Group Policy at the time the Insured pays the deposit required for his or her Trip (or within 15 days of the initial deposit) and the Insured purchases the coverage under the Group Policy for the full cost of their Trip."

 

49 states plus DC and Canada -- don't have to insure the full trip cost to get the pre-ex waiver. If you live in Missouri you do. Why Missouri would insist that the plan be modified in this manner for their residents is beyond me. It's definitely not in their best interest. Always check your state exceptions, especially you residents of Washington state whose Department of Insurance seems to go out of their way to make travel insurance plans less consumer-friendly for no apparent reason.

[wieslaw]

Cruiseco,

thanks again. I was not aware of all these differencies. I will bump my total cost just a little just in case if there might be opportunity to upgrade to a beter cabin for not a huge amount of money, if the premium for insurence will be the same or not much more.

I am not that much concern about lossing a $100 or so in case of cancellation. I am mostly getting the insurace to have the extra piece of mind if something medically went wrong. or the weather prevented me to get to the port.

Cruiseco, seems that you know so much in the field of insurance and are willing to share it with so many of us.

Thank you for all the help.

Wes