Costa Concordia SINKING

[Starlight Durban Cruising]

Some reports said he was trying to take off with money and ordered the crew not to abandon the ship(which begs the question if a Captain told you that would you really heed that ridiculous order?) but I have seen a few reports of Captains doing this(not very often thank heavens) but I know one such news report where the reporters were asking the Captain why he left when there were so many passengers still on the ship(can't remember the ship that was involved) and he said point blank "in an event like this, they're on their own, I got my own hide to save." Makes me wonder how he even made it out of there alive after saying that

 

I think you are probably referring to the sinking of the Oceanos off South Africa in 1991. Captain and crew left the ship first/early. Entertainers went to bridge and were calling for help, and then they were the ones who helped SA Airforce rescue all passengers off ship. And in that case the ship was a couple of miles off the coast in rough seas. Plenty of video on Youtube.

[gwenscompany]

Dear Deck Officer: I appreciate you providing information and I look forward to your future writings. Thanks.

[Starlight Durban Cruising]

Well I hope he never worked with cruises again, what on earth would have happened, if ALL the staff felt that way? Would they all get on life boats, leaving everyone to fend alone? With no idea what to do? :eek:

 

Well, that Captain of the Oceanos was jailed when he got back to Greece, but rumor has it that a few years later he was commanding a ferry between the Greek Isles. And YES, with the Oceanos the crew basically all left. Rumor has it that suitcases were on hand as they left in the lifeboats. The entertainment staff were the ones left on the ship (all local South African contract workers) who then called for help on radio, and helped SA Airforce to get people off the ship. They were VERY lucky to all be saved as they were some miles out to sea in very bad weather conditions.

[glrounds]

I have sailed the Carnival Destiny and Costa Magica and in both instances the lifeboat drill was done on the deck above the promonade deck. In the instance of the Destiny cruise they demonstrated how they would board the passengers first onto the lifeboat by walking on, into their hoisted position, and then the boat would be lowered into the water. At the time I thought it seemed even safer, this was back in 1999. I could be wrong about the Concordia as I have not sailed her however she is a cousin of the Destiny and Magica and the picture I have attached does show the passengers on the Concordia assembled on the deck above the promonade deck (notice the floor is not teak - or what looks like teak - as on the promonade deck where you board the vessel and relax in deck chairs) I assume awaiting to board the lifeboats. Note the enclosures above them there are no lifeboats above them. One could see the cutaway for the lifeboat on the left of the pic and you can even see the top of the boat.

 

I consider the Concordia a cousin of the Carnival Destiny because the Concordia's basic hull design and most of its layout is based on the Carnival Destiny of 1996 vintage.

 

Here is the lineage:

 

101,000 tons (approx)

Carnival Destiny 1996

Carnival Triumph 1999

Carnival Victory 2000

Costa Fortuna 2003

Costa Magica 2004

 

110,000 tons

Carnival Conquest 2002

Carnival Glory 2003

Carnival Valor 2004

Carnival Liberty 2005

Carnival Freedom 2007

 

112,000

Costa Concordia 2006

Costa Serena 2007

 

113,000 tons

Carnival Splendor 2008

 

114,000 tons

Costa Pacifica 2009

Costa Flavolosa 2011

 

128,000 tons

Carnival Dream 2009

Carnival Magic 2011

 

The Carnival Conquest was the 1st change in the Destiny class series. The Conquest version introduced a longer hull. Then the the Concordia and Serena used the Conquest platform and then added a few more features. The next version was the Splendour class this saw the aft pool loose its covering. The most drastic change to this class of ship came with the Dream version. This saw the most dramatic change in this class of ship. But as you can see the Concordia is a cousin of the Destiny. Take a look at the Destiny's deck plan and compare it to the Concordia and you will see many, many similarities.

 

Personally I think Carnival Corp. should take a break from this class of ship which its archetectual design dates back to the mid 90's.

 

Take a look at www.shipparade.com and go to the ship index you can compare specs and exterior pics there.

 

I see incredible differences between the Destiny and the Splendor. Although since the Destiny through the Conquest class many of the interiors appear the same with the public venues, it was obvious that the Splendor is a SISTER (not cousin) to the Concordia. Only because of conditions I know nothing about, did Carnival decide to take this DUPLICATE HULL and make it the Splendor instead of another ship in the Costa line. One of the things that appeals to me of the SPLENDOR is its mimicking of the aft Lido deck being open to the sea like the SPIRIT class (my favorite).

 

Concordia 112,000 tons

3,000 normal paxs

3,700 MAX paxs

1,100 crew

 

Splendor 113,000 tons

3,006 normal paxs

3,914 MAX paxs

1,160 crew

 

Destiny 101,000 tons ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? :confused:

 

I'll agree the interior layout of the Conquest class even up to the Splendor in many areas is a very worn out plan. I dislike this group most of all having cruised on several of them (Victory twice, Glory twice). I thought Carnival had hit upon a great layout with the Spirit Class (many other PLATINUM cruisers at Carnival think so, also), but probably not big enough to carry enough paxs efficiently (although specifically designed, size-wise, to be able to transit the Panama Canal).

 

 

[guernseyguy]

OK folks, here is a post that is also speculation, like all the posts on this thread. The main difference is this is copied from a thread on a forum that is a mix of professional mariners (like myself)....

Even though it had a rounded hull compared to the stronger V-shaped hull fitted to the Cunard flagship QM2.....

 

Then I'm surprised that a master mariner (like yourself) would post such nonsense about QM2's 'hull' being V shaped, while Costa Concordia's is 'more rounded'. The fact of the matter is that for the vast majority of their length both ships have U shaped hulls with completely flat bottoms - Yes, QM2's bow is more tapered ('v shaped', if you will) than Costa Concordia's - but then I take it a 'master mariner' can distinguish between a 'bow' and a 'hull'.

 

 

As for this 'electrical problems caused it' I don't see how it fits with the facts - that after the course change from 298 to 278 she maintained speed for over half an hour - surely if there were electrical problems that would have affected speed?

 

Similarly, I don't see how the 'hit something mid-channel, then changed course to Giglio' works either - surely if you hit something you'd stop to assess damage, rather than pushing on, possibly accelerating the ingress of water?

 

To me, the facts that we know at the moment are - changed heading (but not speed) (for reasons unknown) to head directly towards Giglio, then possibly lost situational awareness, failed to turn in time and failed to miss Giglio, or one of its outcrops.....

[Starlight Durban Cruising]

 

Originally Posted by Bugsy4271

Some reports said he was trying to take off with money and ordered the crew not to abandon the ship(which begs the question if a Captain told you that would you really heed that ridiculous order?) but I have seen a few reports of Captains doing this(not very often thank heavens) but I know one such news report where the reporters were asking the Captain why he left when there were so many passengers still on the ship(can't remember the ship that was involved) and he said point blank "in an event like this, they're on their own, I got my own hide to save." Makes me wonder how he even made it out of there alive after saying that

 

 

I think you are probably referring to the sinking of the Oceanos off South Africa in 1991. Captain and crew left the ship first/early. Entertainers went to bridge and were calling for help, and then they were the ones who helped SA Airforce rescue all passengers off ship. And in that case the ship was a couple of miles off the coast in rough seas. Plenty of video on Youtube.

 

The Oceanos captain's exact words on the local TV news interview(viewable on Youtube !!!) :

 

"When I order abandon the ship, it doesn't matter what time I leave. Abandon is for everybody. If some people like to stay, they can stay."

 

And the body language said a lot too.

[SarniaLo]

Similarly, I don't see how the 'hit something mid-channel, then changed course to Giglio' works either - surely if you hit something you'd stop to assess damage, rather than pushing on, possibly accelerating the ingress of water?

 

To me, the facts that we know at the moment are - changed heading (but not speed) (for reasons unknown) to head directly towards Giglio, then possibly lost situational awareness, failed to turn in time and failed to miss Giglio, or one of its outcrops.....

It also seems to me this is what we know.

Carnival's Press Release say "the ship hit an unchartered rock at about 10 pm", which is way after the ship changed course towards the island; according to the AIS-based video, the distress signal was sent at about 9:50 (at that time, all ships close to the Concordia changed course to head towards her), when the ship was very close to Giglio. Is there any evidence (or testimony) that the ship actually hit something mid-channel?

[shipfriend_max]

Well, now we know that they found most of the people who were missed yesterday - only a few are remaining mssing.

Now I think the question is whether the ship remains on the rocks there and could be recovered sooner or later or whether it slips off the rock and sinks...

I hope they will recover it.

But if it would sink: I think Costa has an insurance for all their ships and I think than they get the money - maybe they could build a new one...

But we will see what happens, it makes no sense to speculate what will happen...

 

We only can pray and hope...

[tin01]

More info from today :

- Italian Coast guard is concerned about a fuel leak from Concordia (2400 tons of fuel still in the ship)

- The ship is located in the shalow waters, the bottom is now 30 meters submerged in the sea. They have great concern that the sea movement will move it towards deeper water and it will sink completely

- 40 people still missing

- the ship has also some hull damage on the submerged side

- after they rescued an asian couple (on their honeymoon), they made contact to another person inside the ship, but they are unable to get to him (yet).

 

tin

 

ps : Have sailed myself on the Concordia, i will miss her...

[karen&roy]

More info from today :

- Italian Coast guard is concerned about a fuel leak from Concordia (2400 tons of fuel still in the ship)

- The ship is located in the shalow waters, the bottom is now 30 meters submerged in the sea. They have great concern that the sea movement will move it towards deeper water and it will sink completely

- 40 people still missing

- the ship has also some hull damage on the submerged side

- after they rescued an asian couple (on their honeymoon), they made contact to another person inside the ship, but they are unable to get to him (yet).

 

tin

 

ps : Have sailed myself on the Concordia, i will miss her...

 

Thank You for the info. I got on here this morning to hear the latest news and have to scroll thru banter to find the latest news. Jeeezzz people

[smithysrat]

This may already been discussed but the BBC are now reporting that the captain has been arrested on suspicion of multiple homicide and alledgedly left the ship before evacuation was complete.

 

The captain has ultimate responsibilty for the safety of his passengers and crew but there is a team of equally qualified people to take over command if nessasary so in my honest opinion homicide is laughable. In any situation like this it is par for the course that the master of the vessel to be arrested. Recent history has shown us that the Italian justice system does like a scapegoat and I think that until we have all the facts then no fingers should be pointed.

 

As for leaving the vessel before evacuation was complete.....that is quite an ambiguous statement. Fair enough, if he was within the first 2000 people off the ship then yes, not good. But if there was apparently nobody left on the ship so he left and then they found more survivors (as they did) then technically "he left before evacuation was complete", the press using artistic licence.

 

Another point I would like to add is that I saw a post with the AIS track of Concordia on the night of the accident showing her doing 15 knots towards Giglio and then performing a sharp turn to starboard. To me it is obvious that this track was picked up AFTER the accident. AIS recievers generally only pick up signals from ships 10 - 20 km offshore which is exactly where this track started. The ship was travelling at 15 knots, far slower than she would be normally so from that it's not rocket science to work out that she had already hit the rock at that point and was making her way into shallower waters as the officers knew that was the best thing to do to ensure the survival of as many as possible. If they had made a desision to stop the engnes in deeper water I fear we could have been looking at a death toll of 100's if not 1000's so I think we need to wait because possibly the officers on the ship averted rather than caused a disaster.

[karen&roy]

Post from a survivor...Unreal!!

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1548951&page=4

[guernseyguy]

The ship was travelling at 15 knots, far slower than she would be normally

 

Really? With a 14 hour transit and 195 nautical miles to cover she'd only need

to average 14 knots - so going at ±15 to allow for manoeuvring either end does not strike me as 'far slower than she would normally'.

[Topsham]

My Opinion is what happened with Concordia it is a clear navigation mistake, they took hard to starboard to change course other wise there is no explanation why the stabilizer is not damaged (pictures also show this).

 

Marine Traffic is showing also the last course of the ship http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/default.aspx?zoom=9&oldmmsi=247158500&olddate=1/13/2012%209:02:00%20PM

 

20.24 course 278 , 15.5 knots speed

20:33 course 276 , 15.4 knots speed

20:37 course 285 , 15.3 knots speed

20.53 course 351 , 2.9 knots speed

20.58 course 7 , 1.4 knots speed

21:02 course 13, 1.1 knots speed

 

Most probably they realize the mistake, they change course, they said that they will make a close passage near the island, the deep alarm sounded that they are i shallow waters and they turned starboard, at 15 knots speed was enough to make the damage shown in the pictures.

 

quote]

 

 

Spot on. Grounding occurred at some time between 2037 hours and 2053 hours. Probably about 2044.... and the ship gradually came to a stop and the bows came round to a southerly heading... as a result of the initial hard to starboard turn. She then drifted back toward the island and rolled on her side... in effect she sank in shallow water.

[See_again]

Just heard on our local radio that the third person has been rescued. :)

[Topsham]

This is conjecture, so please take it with a grain of salt. I have put myself in the Captain's position and the ship has just been holed by running aground. Because positive stability is so low for a cruise ship, I have to quickly determine what compartments are flooding and determine via volume of compartments what kind of weights I'm dealing with for my stability calculations to ascertain a time frame for total loss of positive stability and the ship flopping over, then sinking. On the other hand I have to compute at a new full ahead sea speed how long it will take me to get to port or at least shallow enough water that the ship will lay down in a semi submerged state resting on the sea floor. Then you have to take into consideration the time involved for a full abandon ship exercise, know that at a certain point of list, either port or starboard lifeboats will be un-usable. Since he was so close to shore it would appear that the actions he took were in fact the best option for maximum passenger safety, but the issue of running aground in the first place will have blame attached. This is my 0.02 worth, and that is all it is worth.

 

 

 

 

The ship grounded and lost all power instantly.... no propulsion no steering. Where were you going to get the 'full speed' required to take you anywhere even a few hundred metres to the Port of Giglio, eh? All that ship did after grounding was come to a halt and then gradually drift back to the position where she rolled on her side.

 

Instead of going on about how poor the stability is or was, the fact is that the ship remained relatively upright for sufficient time to enable the evacuation of 4,000 people. The evacuation should have taken a lot less time... in theory. That is something that will need to be addressed and taken into consideration for the future. But as far as the stability of the ship is concerned she did what she was designed to do. Had the damage occurred to any other compartments other than this direct hit on the engineroom in all likelyhood the ship would have been saved. The designers got it right!

[gill556]

They have just announced there are now 17 missing, let's hope they find everyone alive and well.

[Vampire Parrot]

Regarding the gap between the two small islands that Costa Concordia tried to get through :

 

It was posted

No argument...the passage is 182' wide at it's narrowest point....which is why the speed is so wrong

 

According to the martime chart (Porti Dell'Argentario E Dell'Isola Del Giglio, revised 8th February 2007), the 182' wide channel is where the sea is 5 metres or deeper. Costa Concordia draws about 8 metres at rest, and at 15 knots with squat (*), she's probably drawing 9 metres. The channel with a depth of 10 metres or more is only about 35 feet wide, and Concordia's beam is about 118 feet.

 

(*) squat: (From Wikipedia) The squat effect is the hydrodynamic phenomenon by which a vessel moving quickly through shallow water creates an area of lowered pressure that causes the ship to be closer to the seabed than would otherwise be expected.

 

VP

[Flying is for Planes]

I have looked at the satellite maps and it appears the ship continued on after hitting the rock(s). Whoever was steering the ship made a fairly definite turn towards the island's port (which may have ultimately saved lives). However it is quite possible that the severe listing was a result of this sudden turn. It was some distance out from the island (relative to its current position) when the accident occurred

 

[dagmarnyman]

Well - the crew were not very focused. The ship sailed way too close to Gigilio. Whoever was at the wheel discovered this and made a desperate starboard turn. (Otherwise you do not just happen to damage your stirn!) And - definitely do not get a rock stuck up your rear, which in this case caused the ultimate inconvenience...

Eventually they obviously realized the precarious situation and wanted to safely evacuate the passengers, save "them-selves" or just strand the thing. In any case a very rough or sudden alteration to steer to port made the tall ship tilt and with the previous loss of ballast - the whole thing just tumbled over. Nothing strange actually happened - except for the facts, if in due time will be common knowledge - presumably never disclosed.... There are powerful people with more money than I made out of fishing.....

Regard from a former trawler-captain

[Krazy Kruizers]

I also heard the report a few minutes ago about their rescue of a man.

 

My mind never stops thinking about the crew that were trapped in the engine room where the ship was hit.

[dagmarnyman]

Well - the crew were not very focused. The ship sailed way too close to Gigilio. Whoever was at the wheel discovered this and made a desperate starboard turn. (Otherwise you do not just happen to damage your stirn!) And - definitely do not get a rock stuck up your rear, which in this case caused the ultimate inconvenience...

Eventually they obviously realized the precarious situation and wanted to safely evacuate the passengers, save "them-selves" or just strand the thing. In any case a very rough or sudden alteration to steer to port made the tall ship tilt and with the previous loss of ballast - the whole thing just tumbled over. Nothing strange actually happened - except for the facts, if in due time will be common knowledge - presumably never disclosed.... There are powerful people with more money than I made out of fishing.....

Regard from a former trawler-captain

[Topsham]

"The captain of the Costa Concordia may have been correct in his belief that his ship met its fate off the western Italian coast because of a power failure.

CORRECT. HIS ENGINEROOM FLOODED AFTER HITTING A ROCK AND THE WATER CAUSED THE LOSS OF ELECTRIP POWER.

 

Passengers rescued from the stricken liner reported there had been a power blackout and a large booming noise, which indicated the vessel may have suffered an engine room explosion.

 

CORRECT. HITTING A ROCK MAKES A LARGE BOOMING NOISE

 

Last night Malcolm Latarche,

 

The expert said the harmonic interference – a type of power surge – could have caused a malfunction in the generators feeding the ship’s six diesel electric engines with which the back-up systems could not cope.

This would have caused the ship to lose navigational power and steering control and veer off course, he said.

 

AND THIS JUST HAPPENED AT THE EXACT MOMENT THE SHIP WAS BETWEEN TWO PINNACLES OF ROCK WHERE SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 

Asked for his assessment of the incident, Mr Latarche said: ‘I would say power failure caused by harmonic interference and then it can’t propel straight or navigate and it hit rocks.’

He added that once a ship experienced problems with the electrical supply to its main propulsion motors, it could lead to a problem with steering.

Mr Latarche said: ‘It seems that this may have happened quite close to land, in shallow water. When you can’t steer you are going to run aground and hit rocks at some point.’

 

THE MASTER TOOK THE SHIP CLOSE INSHORE AND ATTEMPTED A RUN BETWEEN TWO ROCKS. HE ORDERED AN ALTERATION OF COURSE TO STARBOARD AND HIS HIS AFTER END SIDESWIPED A ROCK. INSTANT FLOODING, INSTANT LOSS OF POWER.

 

 

The Costa Concordia, built in 2005, was designed to standards comparable with ocean liners.

Even though it had a rounded hull compared to the stronger V-shaped hull fitted to the Cunard flagship QM2, experts say it was capable of crossing the rough seas of the Atlantic.

 

V SHAPED HULL ON QUEEN MARY 2? NONSENSE. HER HULL IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE CONCORDIA'S. PERHAPS A FINER ENTRY AND RUN AND DEFINITELY A LOWER BLOCK COEFFICIENT BUT V SHAPED... NO!

 

 

Mr Latarche added: ‘Although the damage caused to the ship was severe, there are many safeguards in the design of a state-of-the-art cruise ship to prevent it turning over.

 

YES. THIS IS COMPLETELY CORRECT.

 

 

‘There is a second hull within the outer hull. Inside the inner hull there is a steel structure like an ice tray to contain the water and prevent it spreading through the ship.

 

KNOWN AS WATERTIGHT SUBDIVISION.

‘In this case, the Master rightly attempted to return it to the shore, but it seems to have keeled over because it hit shallow water on the coast.

 

HOW COULD HE ATTEMPT THE IMPOSSIBLE. NO POWER TO PROPELLERS OR STEERNING. IT KEELED OVER BECAUSE SHE EITHER FLOODED THROUGHOUT OR SHE LOST AALL REMAINING STAABILITY WHEN SHE TOUCHED BOTTOM... WHERE SHE NOW LIES.

 

An ocean cruise ship is not designed to float in 20ft of water. It needs much more than that to remain upright.’

 

SOME CRUISE SHIPS ARE DESIGNED TO FLOAT IN 20 FOOT OF WATER. THE BIGGER ONES REQUIRE DEEPER WATER.

 

According to Mr Latarche, the fact that the average tonnage of cruise ships has doubled in the past decade makes a full-scale evacuation while at sea almost impossible.

 

BUT THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID... 4000 PEOPLE EVACUATED. GRANTED THE CONDITIONS WERE PRACTICALLY PERFECT.

 

Under regulations introduced by the International Maritime Organisation in 2010, the very latest ships are now designed to be able to return to port even in the event of a major fire or loss of power on board, in order to make evacuation unnecessary.

 

AND PIGS MIGHT FLY.

 

 

The Concordia was commissioned five years prior to the new rules but Mr Latarche said: ‘Even if the most sophisticated ship in the world went into shallow water, the likelihood is it would turn on its side.

 

SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

 

This was a unique situation in which a number of circumstances all came together.’

 

SOD'S LAW

[shipfriend_max]

I also heard the report a few minutes ago about their rescue of a man.

 

My mind never stops thinking about the crew that were trapped in the engine room where the ship was hit.

 

Good that they found the man - are there more news out now concerning the destiny of the ship? :confused:

[guernseyguy]

In any case a very rough or sudden alteration to steer to port made the tall ship tilt and with the previous loss of ballast - the whole thing just tumbled over.

 

As far as we know this does not appear to be supported by the evidence - the collision happened a little before ten - it took over an hour to start the evacuation - from the position where she ultimately settled on the sea bed - near the Giglio pier, and she appears to have rolled over slowly - from the reports I have read, settling on her side around 03.00 - fully 5 hours after the collision - the lifeboats from the starboard (underwater) side of the ship appear to have got away:

 

 

So frightening though this was, this was not Titanic (two and a half hours, virtually unnoticeable for the first two) or the truly terrifying Lusitania (18 minutes).