Costa Concordia SINKING

[mcrcruiser]

There seems to be alot of information on You tube on this for cruises. My husband and I (and the kids) want to cruise sometime this year but we are nervous now with this goings on.

 

I saw a post earlier that asked how many of you would cruis again, I'm wondering the same thing but somehow that post got lost.

 

In our opinion the most important considerations besides itinerary & price is the accident track record of a particular cruise line ;).

 

Our cruise line of choice is Celebrity or next its parent company Royal Caribbean ships:).

[mcrcruiser]

You are kidding right? Not a issue for USA congress at all, its IMO regulations which are international, USA flagged Your cruise will cost you at least 10 x more, You need US crew, if USA flagged they would have to pay a lot of Tax on any profits too, Ok accidents happen now and then, same as Pilot error on how many plane crashes, Spirit of America I think has usa flag and crew how they manage it I dont know.

 

Some info to settle the debate, from the latest article on msnbc.com:

 

Separately, Rep. John Mica (R-Fla.), chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, said Wednesday he will hold a hearing to review cruise ship safety. The exact date has not been determined, but Mica has requested Coast Guard and Maritime Transportation Subcommittee Chairman Rep. Frank LoBiondo (R-N.J.) to aid in the investigation.

"The Costa Concordia tragedy is a wake-up call for the United States and international maritime organizations to carefully review and make certain we have in place all the appropriate standards to ensure passengers' safety on cruise ships," Mica said in a statement.

 

Appropriate Safety Standards in place is the important issue at hand. In this we agree 1000% ;):)

[Clar5]

I tried to link but when I preview tested it didn't work.

 

Google Sea Diamond, Santorini, Greece. It was in April, 2007.

In scanning it, doesn't look like they got all the boats off.

 

 

If you watch this Youtube video of someone's pictures of the event, pause it at the one at 2:02 then again at 2:05. It shows the boats missing on one whole side of the ship. If you pause it at 2:19, it looks like the other side, no boats.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8JUoAzbHrU

[JJSMaine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwmz9LN8wcE

 

This YouTube video form the Italian CG shows heat nicely as a dark spot.

 

So what is with the large rectangular hot patch on the bottom of the hull. It shows up at the end of the 7 minutes, but also somewhere in the first half. Is that the radiator section of the hull?

 

At the angle the ship is laying, should we be able to see a propeller if one was there?

 

 

This video is well after the initial dropping of the boats, and there are many people still on the ship...

 

It will be good to see the time line laid out when we know more.

[Canadian Karebear]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwmz9LN8wcE

 

This YouTube video form the Italian CG shows heat nicely as a dark spot.

 

So what is with the large rectangular hot patch on the bottom of the hull. It shows up at the end of the 7 minutes, but also somewhere in the first half. Is that the radiator section of the hull?

 

At the angle the ship is laying, should we be able to see a propeller if one was there?

 

 

This video is well after the initial dropping of the boats, and there are many people still on the ship...

 

It will be good to see the time line laid out when we know more.

 

I wonder what that is as well, looks ominous!

[Canadian Karebear]

Some info to settle the debate, from the latest article on msnbc.com:

 

Separately, Rep. John Mica (R-Fla.), chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, said Wednesday he will hold a hearing to review cruise ship safety. The exact date has not been determined, but Mica has requested Coast Guard and Maritime Transportation Subcommittee Chairman Rep. Frank LoBiondo (R-N.J.) to aid in the investigation.

"The Costa Concordia tragedy is a wake-up call for the United States and international maritime organizations to carefully review and make certain we have in place all the appropriate standards to ensure passengers' safety on cruise ships," Mica said in a statement.

 

Appropriate Safety Standards in place is the important issue at hand. In this we agree 1000% ;):)

 

I think once people of your country are involved, the government is apt to act on the tragedy out of a sense of duty. I agree if they get better safety practices together it's at least a good learning curve for all the Cruise Lines. I agree 4000%!

[SomeBeach]

There seems to be alot of information on You tube on this for cruises. My husband and I (and the kids) want to cruise sometime this year but we are nervous now with this goings on.

 

I saw a post earlier that asked how many of you would cruis again, I'm wondering the same thing but somehow that post got lost.

 

Sorry. I never saw a question about cruising. Or maybe I saw it and got distracted.

I've been on probably 25+ cruises, both this side of the pond and across. Some of my cruises have been back to back, keeping me on board for up to 30 days at a time. I may be a bit biased in my response. I love being out on the water.

I can't make up your mind nor ease your nervousness. I find cruising to be a wonderful form of travel, safe enough that I have taken my son and his family. I will admit I waited until youngest grandboy was 5 yrs old but that was because I wanted to make sure he would remember it.

Will this stop me from cruising or taking my family... no. Will I think about taking a few extra precautions... yes.

Where are you thinking of going?

[Canadian Karebear]

There seems to be alot of information on You tube on this for cruises. My husband and I (and the kids) want to cruise sometime this year but we are nervous now with this goings on.

 

I saw a post earlier that asked how many of you would cruis again, I'm wondering the same thing but somehow that post got lost.

 

We have cruised only twice, but are booked next month and as well next year. I believe it is still safe, and would cruise more often if we could afford it. We really enjoy cruising!

[Canadian Karebear]

You are all over the place with this post. First of all, you have no idea what the policies say, so you don't know what is and is not covered. Second, Carnival is self insured for the first $10 million.

 

Third, you claim that, "The insurance company would be hard pressed NOT to honor a personal injury claim. " Then you claim that, "If there was criminal intent, then the insurer has every right to deny a claim." So which is it? By the way, you seem to have forgotten the exclusion for intentional conduct.

 

I would be interested to see how you would adjust this claim.

Do you have the manuscript wordings? (since you seem to be so abreast on it)

I have seen many of them, and have spoken to a few re-insurers (actually did that tonight!).

They re-iterated exactly what I said. Isn't that funny!

Intentional conduct exclusion may or may not hold up on this. It depends on the lawyers involved.

We cannot speculate at this time.

Every insurance company has a right to deny a claim based on whether there was coverage or exclusions at the time of the loss. Criminal activity is not covered in a usual situation.

But there are always lawyers that will interpret information differently, so we shall just have to see how it's played out in a court of law (if it gets that far).

Your ball.

[Canadian Karebear]

Apparently you are unfamiliar with fidelity bonds that protect the employer from criminal acts of the employee. These policies do in fact payout for criminal activity.

Nope, very familiar with them. Form A covers Class 1 employees. the ones that handle money. Fidelity bonds are just that, cover the losses of the client with respect to employees who abscond monies.

Now can we talk about something relating to this thread? This would not apply at all in the case of someone being criminally responsible for property damage or liabilty.

[Cruzin-K]

That image of Costa Serena sailing past is authentic, she sailed from Civitavecchia tonight and it's reported she would sail near the wreck of the Concordia.

 

Link: http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/World/Story/STIStory_757403.html

 

Better pic:

From: http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Tales-emerge-of-missing-and-dead-in-ship-disaster-2608550.php

 

 

That has got to feel weird for those on board. I know I'm going to feel a bit odd boarding my cruise in April. It will be impossible to get this accident out of my mind, especially since I'll be sailing on April 14, the 100 year anniversary of when the Titanic hit the iceberg :eek:

 

I chose that date for a reason though, so I could be at sea to remember the victims of that tragedy. Now, I have one more remembrance to add. :(

[Feelin' Nauti']

Do you think Cruise Lines will slash their fares due to this incident?

 

~

 

As for insurance ;):D

 

 

Hull insurance: This insurance covers damage to the ship. Carnival is responsible for the first $30 million in damage. The rest is covered by a network of insurers led by XL Group, an Irish insurer with executive offices in Bermuda. A company spokeswoman refused to comment.

 

 

Liability insurance:

 

 

 

The second type of insurance coverage purchased by Carnival is for personal injury liability. The company said in a statement Monday that it has a $10 million deductible on that policy. That coverage would include any payments related to injuries and deaths of passengers and crew, the cost to clean up any leaking oil and the loss of cargo.

Claims would be paid out even if the ship’s captain is found to be negligent. The cruise company has said that Capt. Francesco Schettino deviated from his approved course. Later, an Italian coast guard officer ordered Schettino back on the ship to assist in the rescue.

Cruise lines and shipping companies join together in groups, known as protection and indemnity clubs, to spread out their individual risk. Each member of the club pays in dues and then claims are paid out from the collective funds.

Carnival insured the Concordia through two clubs. The first, which has the bulk of the liability, is the Standard Club, according to a spokesman for the group. The second is through a club called Steamship Mutual. After Carnival pays its $10 million deductive, these two clubs are responsible for the next $8 million in combined liability claims.

The next $52 million in claims would be paid out by a larger collective called the International Group P&I Clubs, which represents 13 of the clubs, which insure more than 90 percent of the world’s ocean shipping.

After that, there is a reinsurance policy taken out with large firms that would cover losses up to $3 billion, according to the Standard Club. Reinsurance companies protect insurance firms against catastrophic losses. Carnival did not take out insurance for loss of use of the ship. The company said it expects lose $85 million to $95 million in bookings.

[shebawalk]

There seems to be alot of information on You tube on this for cruises. My husband and I (and the kids) want to cruise sometime this year but we are nervous now with this goings on.

 

I saw a post earlier that asked how many of you would cruis again, I'm wondering the same thing but somehow that post got lost.

 

I just booked a November cruise on Monday. I have no trepidations about cruising.

[rajkr74]

Don't you just hate it when you accidentally trip into something that will save your life when you're supposed to be busy saving the lives of the thousands of people you've put in peril?

 

 

Boy....insightful and well said. That sentence makes you think.

[branchwater]

The Captain should be on the bridge coordinating the evacuation, first officer should be manning the life boats, ship mates need to assist in evacuation.

 

No shipmates on cruise-liners; customer service personnel only. (hope safety changes are in the works after this tragedy.)

 

Naval family background and cruiser here.

 

Praying for families and lost loved ones.

 

Kudos for the heroism of the harbormaster in Italy and to the divers and all involved in the rescue and recovery of this horrific tragedy.

 

I have poured over the news reports and pix. Thank you to all of the unsung heroes. Stay safe.

 

```````````````````````

[Jokelady]

Because of this cruise disaster,,, what will you do differently now that you didn't do before. Will you take any extra precautions? Pack flashlights, water proof bags for documents, own life raft? Curious to see if anyone has started to think differently for future cruises.

 

Jokelady

[SandDragon]

Because of this cruise disaster,,, what will you do differently now that you didn't do before. Will you take any extra precautions? Pack flashlights, water proof bags for documents, own life raft? Curious to see if anyone has started to think differently for future cruises.

 

Jokelady

 

Our precaution is that we'll probably just avoid cruising for a while. If an Italian captain of an Italian cruise ship can't miss an island off the coast of Italy, then it doesn't do wonders for confidence in this form of travel. No doubt this too will pass but for now there are plenty of other ways to spend my holiday dollars.

[branchwater]

I can only speak for myself & family when we cruise for a vacation, now I will definitely think about more than just my wardrobe and drink package.

 

Hope the cruise-line will too!

[SomeBeach]

Because of this cruise disaster,,, what will you do differently now that you didn't do before. Will you take any extra precautions? Pack flashlights, water proof bags for documents, own life raft? Curious to see if anyone has started to think differently for future cruises.

 

Jokelady

 

Ok, I have to admit you got me with the "own life raft." :p

I think I would make sure I knew where to go if I could not get to my lifeboat station. Other than that I might add some money and a credit card to my grab bag which I have always had at the ready.

After listening to a lady that survived and all the crawling and climbing she had to do, whatever I would grab would have to fit in my jacket pocket, one that has a zippered pocket.

Course if you can't get back to your stateroom, it doesn't matter but I'd be ready if I could.

[cdamion]

Because of this cruise disaster,,, what will you do differently now that you didn't do before. Will you take any extra precautions? Pack flashlights, water proof bags for documents, own life raft? Curious to see if anyone has started to think differently for future cruises.

 

Jokelady

 

When in a life boat, I will probably try not to sit directly below where the captain is standing when he's assisting passengers.

[degarr]

When in a life boat, I will probably try not to sit directly below where the captain is standing when he's assisting passengers.

 

Brilliant! :)

[tntornadox]

When in a life boat, I will probably try not to sit directly below where the captain is standing when he's assisting passengers.

 

Oooh! I heard some captains have a problem keeping their balance when assisting in loading lifeboats and fall in themselves! Good Idea!

[Cuizer2]

Do you think Cruise Lines will slash their fares due to this incident?

 

~

 

As for insurance ;):D

 

 

Hull insurance: This insurance covers damage to the ship. Carnival is responsible for the first $30 million in damage. The rest is covered by a network of insurers led by XL Group' date=' an Irish insurer with executive offices in Bermuda. A company spokeswoman refused to comment.

 

 

[b']Liability insurance:[/b]

 

 

 

The second type of insurance coverage purchased by Carnival is for personal injury liability. The company said in a statement Monday that it has a $10 million deductible on that policy. That coverage would include any payments related to injuries and deaths of passengers and crew, the cost to clean up any leaking oil and the loss of cargo.

Claims would be paid out even if the ship’s captain is found to be negligent. The cruise company has said that Capt. Francesco Schettino deviated from his approved course. Later, an Italian coast guard officer ordered Schettino back on the ship to assist in the rescue.

Cruise lines and shipping companies join together in groups, known as protection and indemnity clubs, to spread out their individual risk. Each member of the club pays in dues and then claims are paid out from the collective funds.

Carnival insured the Concordia through two clubs. The first, which has the bulk of the liability, is the Standard Club, according to a spokesman for the group. The second is through a club called Steamship Mutual. After Carnival pays its $10 million deductive, these two clubs are responsible for the next $8 million in combined liability claims.

The next $52 million in claims would be paid out by a larger collective called the International Group P&I Clubs, which represents 13 of the clubs, which insure more than 90 percent of the world’s ocean shipping.

After that, there is a reinsurance policy taken out with large firms that would cover losses up to $3 billion, according to the Standard Club. Reinsurance companies protect insurance firms against catastrophic losses. Carnival did not take out insurance for loss of use of the ship. The company said it expects lose $85 million to $95 million in bookings.

 

Cruise fares tend to be supply and demand driven. When demand falls, the fares fall. When demand rises, fares go up.

 

If this incident causes a reduction in bookings, fares will go do. If this incident has no affect on booking fares will remain the same. If bookings increase then fares will go up.

 

Cruise lines are pretty good at setting fares. On my last three cruises the fares have only gone up except for one small price drop within a week of booking.

 

The best I ever got was a June 2009 cruise out of Los Angeles where the fare dropped 39%. That was a very significant refund I received.

[Ozcruiser1]

I posted this some days ago and after a number of responses I now would not carry my scanned docs on a usb drive but rather email them to myself to access if needed. But otherwise this is what we do .

Here is a copy of my post #2126

 

 

There has been many posting which I have found most interesting. I'd like to add to the forum some items that my wife and I take as our "emergency pack". I've attached I think two small photos showing clockwise: Quad band mobile (cell phone) with international sim; credit card;vital phone numbers; whistle; usb containing all vital details such as scans of passports, contact details, all in pdf form;small thumb flashlight;govt issued photo ID. All contained in a waterproof container. We keep this with us both onboard and when ashore. We each have one so that if we ever get separated from each other we can at least communicate by phone,(only ever had to use the phone once). We also have our "cruise card" on a lanyard plus a small flashlight attached. Many survivors spoke of being disorientated in the dark.

We also have a firm plan that if we are separated by an incident that we will not go looking for each other but take responsibility for our own safety and will meet at a pre arranged location,(usually the town post office.) We have always felt it was overkill but following this tragic event, our preparation would have come into play and perhaps helped.

If others have similar plans it may be a good time to share with others.

[Ozcruiser1]

Here is a small photo of these items and the waterproof case ( no bigger than a small compact camera)