Costa Concordia SINKING

[degarr]

No, they have announced the search and rescue operation is over and it has officially become a recovery operation.

 

I was not aware, sorry I stand corrected

[IRL_Joanie]

Okay folks, here is what you have been waiting for - the answers to all your questions ...

 

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/costa-concordia-disaster-become-discovery-channel-special-exclusive-100503601.html;_ylt=AjS3NSDsozuMNLGiMrvPkpl_o9EF;_ylu=X3oDMTQ2ZXJxM2k5BG1pdANNb3JlIG9uIFlhaG9vIFRWBHBrZwNkNzMwZWRlMS05ZTRjLTM5OTktOWJkYi0xODk0MzUyOWQ2M2MEcG9zAzMEc2VjA01lZGlhRmVhdHVyZWRDYXJvdXNlbAR2ZXIDNTA0ZWU1ZjAtNDM3OC0xMWUxLThlOWItZDgyNjJkNGNkZjkw;_ylg=X3oDMTJ0ajBmNm92BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDYjI4YzBhNDItMmU4My0zYTcyLTg5NWYtYTk4ZDNmMDU1MDVhBHBzdGNhdANuZXdzBHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQR0ZXN0Aw--;_ylv=3

 

Well, okay, you have to wait until spring.

 

Discovery is good at showing things in seconds from start to finish. By that I mean they disect every tiny detail from the start of a disaster until just afterwards.

 

They have a series similar to National Geographic's "Seconds From Disaster", that breaks every minute detail down and place blame where it should be.

 

If anyone else were to be doing this I might question their veracity/semi-truths, but not the Discovery Channel or National Geographic. I wish I could remember what Discovery calls their series, but at the moment the name evades me:(

 

If you doubt what I am saying go and watch one of their "Seconds From Disaster" shows.

 

QUOTE: "Seconds From Disaster is a documentary that investigates the worst man-made disasters and several natural disasters in modern history, and analyzes the causes and events that led up to each disaster. The documentary features reenactments, interviews, testimony, and CGI to reconstruct the sequence of events second-by-second to the audiences. The CGI segments are prefaced by the narrator with the phrase "Advanced computer simulation will take us where no camera can: into the heart of the disaster zone". UNQUOTE

 

Joanie

[deckofficer]

I need some input on forum rules. Since this thread has attracted so many CMA alumni, I posted two pictures of myself showing that I didn't age gracefully considering my youthful appearance in my avatar picture taken at graduation. This forum's thread has brought me in contact with fellow midshipmen that I haven't seen in years, and I even prefaced that post with my two age progression pictures that it was way off topic and I wouldn't post any more personal pictures. Even so, the post was removed and I have not been notified by the mods or admin that I broke a rule. This is counter productive, as I have to think ANY post I make can be pulled, thus why waste the time? I've re-read the rules, no mention of not posting pictures.

[jopocop]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/20/costa-concordia-amateur-video-crew-back-cabins_n_1219713.html

 

 

Costa Concordia Amateur Video Shows Crew Announcing 'Go Back To Your Cabins'

 

Just moments before Costa Concordia Captain Francesco Schettino ordered a full-scale evacuation of the stricken cruise liner, a crew member urged guests to return to their cabins, according to amateur footage obtained by Italian state broadcaster, Rai TV.

 

The Daily Mail posted a translation of the video showing a female crew member addressing passengers gathered on a deck, most wearing life jackets in preparation to debark the ship.

 

"On behalf of our captain we cordially ask you to return to your cabins or if you like, wonder around the hall, it's up to you," the woman says, according to the Daily Mail translation. "There's nothing to worry about. We've managed to fix the problem we had with the electric generator. Everything is under control."

 

The footage was recorded around the time the ship's Captain Francesco Shettino had ordered dinner, less than an hour after the ship had run aground, according to the Mail. By then, the ship had tilted so far that it was unsafe for many lifeboats to be lowered, and passengers were forced to scale the ship's hull using rope ladders.

 

Most of the ship's 4,200 passengers made it to shore. Though 11 deaths have been reported and 20 passengers remain missing, according to the Telegraph.

 

Search crews had to suspend their search for missing passengers for a third time Friday morning after the ship shifted position off the coast of Giglio, BBC reports.

 

In the meantime, a Dutch company has been hired to pump fuel from the Costa Concordia, which could cause untold environmental damage if it leaks into the water.

[Rancher Dave]

I need some input on forum rules. Since this thread has attracted so many CMA alumni, I posted two pictures of myself showing that I didn't age gracefully considering my youthful appearance in my avatar picture taken at graduation. This forum's thread has brought me in contact with fellow midshipmen that I haven't seen in years, and I even prefaced that post with my two age progression pictures that it was way off topic and I wouldn't post any more personal pictures. Even so, the post was removed and I have not been notified by the mods or admin that I broke a rule. This is counter productive, as I have to think ANY post I make can be pulled, thus why waste the time? I've re-read the rules, no mention of not posting pictures.

 

Bob, share your email with the fellow CMA grads and exchange pictures that way. It will help keep this whole thread on topic.

[deckofficer]

Back to the thruster topic, a member of the other forum I belong to, a fine lady named Astrid said, and this is her quote "The Wasa Wärtsilä CT300 bow thrusters have their own power generators near the thruster package itself, so it is independent of and does not rely upon the ship's generating system."

 

Through both forums, I'm learning more about cruise ships.

[Leadft]

I need some input on forum rules. Since this thread has attracted so many CMA alumni, I posted two pictures of myself showing that I didn't age gracefully considering my youthful appearance in my avatar picture taken at graduation. This forum's thread has brought me in contact with fellow midshipmen that I haven't seen in years, and I even prefaced that post with my two age progression pictures that it was way off topic and I wouldn't post any more personal pictures. Even so, the post was removed and I have not been notified by the mods or admin that I broke a rule. This is counter productive, as I have to think ANY post I make can be pulled, thus why waste the time? I've re-read the rules, no mention of not posting pictures.

 

That is weird and I'm also unaware of that rule. I hope people aren't flagging your posts due to your rocky start here. Your recent posts have been extremely informative and valuable.

[Highlander0108]

This is a question I hate to respond to because it upsets so many folks on this forum. The captain might have been arrogant, but was no dummy. He knows how tender the positive stability of any cruise ship is, and the clock was ticking for the loss of positive stability and a capsize. If in deeper water, 1000's would have lost their lives, if semi beached and supported by the seabed, many if not all could be saved. At least that is how I would have reacted if I delayed the abandon ship alarm as long as he did. You have to remember he also delayed any shore side response with the claim of "only experiencing an electrical problem" when first contacted by port authorities who were contacted by passengers using their cell phones.

 

Thanks Bob for your response and analysis. I hesitated to ask the question too. No excuse for the navigation error, but I really want to give the captain credit here if its possible, leaving out the entire other issue of leaving the ship. That I can't fathom.

 

I'm guessing that while the ship was slowing down and she was steered away from the shore (maybe), the captain had damage reports in by now and probably discussed this move with Costa ship management, who perhaps had naval architects on the line to weigh the pros and cons of the best way to handle this. They were probably also calculating whether the ship could remain afloat with the amount of damage sustained. Sort of like the Thomas Andrews protrayal in Titanic when the captain asks if she'll sink. This does not excuse the apparent deliberate mis-information being fed to the Coast Guard by someone onboard. On the otherhand, he might have been telling them all he really knew at the time on the bridge, who knows, but it will all come out in time.

 

Can you elaborate on the AIS system and how this company could have obtained more information than has been conventionally reported with other websites such as MarineAIS. If that video is using actual data, as is mentioned, how did they get it?

 

Another question I will raise is regarding the previous course of the ship in August that everyone is making out that is the smoking gun that Costa approved of that course. Costa has stated that they had permission for a course to do this "bow" in August Was the course that was approved, the course that was ultimately taken? One has to wonder. Would the course still be in the GPS system? I know on my Raymarine system on my boat, I can call up previous courses at any time. But....this would be irrelevant as the captain stated he took manual control of the helm and was unbelievably navigating by sight at night!!!

[deckofficer]

Bob, share your email with the fellow CMA grads and exchange pictures that way. It will help keep this whole thread on topic.

 

Small problem, the rules of this forum state not to use your real name or email address. My email address is my name, and since this forum doesn't have a PM function that I could find, I'm SOL for contact via email.

[Leadft]

Small problem, the rules of this forum state not to use your real name or email address. My email address is my name, and since this forum doesn't have a PM function that I could find, I'm SOL for contact via email.

 

Can you set up something like "deckofficer@gmail.com" just for this purpose?

[IRL_Joanie]

I can't help but be part of the lynch mob. First off, my moms were going to be joining the ship in Savona so that was a close call. Second, I was on the USS Cole when it was bombed in Yemen and MY Captain would have NEVER abandoned the ship....without going into too much suffice to say I know that his #1 priority was for the safety of the crew first and then the ship... The fact that this Captain obviously did not see things the same way is what damns him in my eyes....forget all the other mistakes he made (not having the passengers go to muster as a precaution as soon as this occurred, etc.)

God Bless you!!!! And MANY MANY THANKS!!!!

 

Joanie

[Milaandra]

Iquote]

 

questionable "eye witness" reports which are notoriously inaccurate. we have the captain on the bridge, on a lifeboat, on a reef, on shore at some (undefined) time after the ship stopped on it's side.

 

...and shame on the news media.

 

I was trying to look up who the witnesses are for the "bail hearing", and I ended up on a translated Italian blog in which someone said that it had been reported that the infamous cab driver was furious that he had been misquoted by the media. According to this source, the cab ride and socks discussion wasn't that night at all.

 

I know it's just unsubstantiated rumour, but it would explain how Schettino could be in two places at once. Have any of our Italian community members come across this is your media?

[Spara]

Thank you to whomever posted the link to the article about the salvage company and their workers. They should make a movie about these guys and what they do.

[Uniall]

This article is knowingly full of non truths but is a bit of comedic relief in light of how most people feel right now.

 

Please keep in mind that the Journalist is saying this is jest. But can't you just picture sitting in an audience watching such an opera??

 

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/01/19/the-costa-concordia-shipwreck-as-an-italian-opera/?utm_source=_BPGb$NB8fkfi9l&utm_content=ml20&utm_medium=email

 

Joanie

 

 

Joanie

 

Great Read. The author is superb. But, that's par for the course considering he's Canadian. Some how the Canucks have always had a magical way of blending the dry wit of British satire with the rip roaring American humor.

 

Thanks for the referral.

 

John

[SomeBeach]

God Bless you!!!! And MANY MANY THANKS!!!!

 

Joanie

 

Totally agree.

If they had a like tab on this site I'd be clicking it.

Bob, you can address your question to community@cruisecritic.com (I believe I have the right.)

I will tell you that the mods do request we stay on topic. I can also tell you that most thread can be closed when we hit 5000 to 6000 posts. I know this because I am part of a thread that was over 105,000 posts and they closed us down. Then when we hit 5300 posts on our part 2, they closed us again and started part 3 for us.

Someone may have a concern that we will be shut down so they are trying to eliminate off topic posts.

Now back to topic.

I just wonder how much actual/factual info will be known in the spring for the Discovery show. These investigations take time. Then too, this case is part of a criminal investigation. How much info will be released by spring.

[Highlander0108]

Here are a couple of questions to discuss....

 

1) Has any one seen a report as to which compartment(s?) were breached by the rock?

 

2) Based on reports from the Carnival Splendor fire, we know that the Costa Concordia has two engine rooms each containing 3 diesel generators and a high voltage (11KV? 6kV?) switch board. The two switch boards are supposed to be able to work either together or independently, but in the Splendor's case, that didn't happen; the fire in the aft engine room caused both switch boards to be unusable. (Why that is is still being investigated.)

 

3) Does any one know if the two main propulsion motors were in a separate compartment? Or maybe one in the forward engine room and one in the aft?

 

4) Have there been any reports from any of the the engineers on board? Does Costa man the engine room 24 hours a day?

 

5) Is it possible that the hotel power went out but not the high voltage bus(es)?

 

Aloha,

 

John

 

Great questions! The theory about the two separate engine rooms is to provide redundancy in case of a problem. The high voltage bus that both engine rooms feed their power into was damaged beyond repair, thus rendering the remaining functional engine room on the Splendor without the means to distribute the power throughout the ship. In theory, either engine room could be used for ships propulsion or hotel services on these ships. Perhaps Deckofficer can comment on whether this is a code mandated ship configuration or whether this is just done as a "best practice" type thing.

 

As you stated, we still do not know how the main bus was damaged beyond repair on the Splendor since there were systems in place to prevent this. The sobering nature of the Spendor fire is that Fincantieri had this system in place on many other ships they have built so who knows if that was just an isolated case or if there is a design defect in the main bus on other ships. It would be a bit more reassuring to hear that this two engine room configuration functioned as designed on Concordia, giving the Captain power to maintain/regain some sort of control of the ship until the flooding overcame pumps, etc.

 

With such a powerful impact that might have instantly rendered the forward engine room useless, how long would it take to switch over power to the other engine room and restore some services and lighting? Photos from the inside of the ship look like there was more than just the emergency floor lighting operating. Just an observation.

[NormanW]

Back to the thruster topic, a member of the other forum I belong to, a fine lady named Astrid said, and this is her quote "The Wasa Wärtsilä CT300 bow thrusters have their own power generators near the thruster package itself, so it is independent of and does not rely upon the ship's generating system."

 

Through both forums, I'm learning more about cruise ships.

 

It's an electrical-hydraulic system. The power package is a pump powered by the ship's main bus (4160-11+kV). The hydraulic motor is situated on top of the tunnel connected to a gearbox which turns the screw directly below. These can be quite large (and need to be on larger, modern day cruise ships!) exceeding 3 megawatts.

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

[deckofficer]

It's an electrical-hydraulic system. The power package is a pump powered by the ship's main bus (4160-11+kV). The hydraulic motor is situated on top of the tunnel connected to a gearbox which turns the screw directly below. These can be quite large (and need to be on larger, modern day cruise ships!) exceeding 3 megawatts.

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

 

So Astrid was incorrect in saying a stand alone generator is located near the thruster package?

[IRL_Joanie]

I need some input on forum rules. Since this thread has attracted so many CMA alumni, I posted two pictures of myself showing that I didn't age gracefully considering my youthful appearance in my avatar picture taken at graduation. This forum's thread has brought me in contact with fellow midshipmen that I haven't seen in years, and I even prefaced that post with my two age progression pictures that it was way off topic and I wouldn't post any more personal pictures. Even so, the post was removed and I have not been notified by the mods or admin that I broke a rule. This is counter productive, as I have to think ANY post I make can be pulled, thus why waste the time? I've re-read the rules, no mention of not posting pictures.

I also had posts removed, but did get a notification as to why (it was all good!!) Must admit though I was scared to open the Notification under my name at the top of the page:eek:

 

You were under attack (I and others felt that) and after I replied to one of the posts, I hit the red triangle, explaining why I felt the post(s) by the one attacking should be removed.

 

Since you and I, and I know not how many others, replied quoting that one person, our posts that quoted the objected to posts were also removed.

 

I can understand Cruise Critic having to do this in order to keep the attacks, etc., from continuing.

 

I am sorry that your 2 photos were also removed, but what can I say, better to have them removed than to have the disagreements continuing:)

 

Joanie

[jjagiz]

Hi everyone. I'm a new member here, and have been keeping up with the tragedy both online and off. The majority of posts have been incredibly insightful for me--especially the ones explaining the safety procedures. I haven't cruised yet, but I've been thinking about treating myself after I graduate from university this spring. Anyways, enough about me. I just read this article from the Times of India where a crew member shared his experience after arriving on shore. All of the stories are heartbreaking, but this really tugged at me because it concerns children.

 

"For me it was worse than the Titanic. There were children crying in front of me... children dying and I couldn't do anything to save them," he laments ... Temudo says he saw 5-6 casualties including a 2-year-old Italian girl and an Indonesian who managed to reach shore but died due to the bitter cold." :(

 

Here's the link: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/goa/A-Costa-Concordia-survivor-tells-a-Titanic-tale/articleshow/11572646.cms

[Enigm@]

 

We have no facts on who was on the bridge, who was in control of the ship at any point, what was said on the phone.....all is conjecture or questionable "eye witness" reports which are notoriously inaccurate. we have the captain on the bridge, on a lifeboat, on a reef, on shore at some (undefined) time after the ship stopped on it's side. We have a GPS route missing several points, yet we have a few fancy presentations on the route of the ship with a timeline that also hasn't really been substantiated by many facts.

 

Most of what you are reading is typical newcasting.....the captain is one step worse than the devil, etc. Costa is happy to have all fingers pointing to the captain...so is Carnival Holding Company....after all, this could actually effect bookings.

 

Hmmm, I thought I had begun my post by stating I too was waiting for all the facts, trying to remain open minded & referred to the chinese whispers aspects of the press.

 

I was really responding to this

 

yet the captain managed to get this monster of a ship to shore before it sank stern first.

 

in that we don't know it was the Captain. Reports seem to indicate otherwise. ie: It is not a fact the Captain was responsible for these actions.

Mind you, it is a fact that the Captain was off the ship whilst many passengers were still stranded. He was under arrest for abandonment whilst the rescue operation was continuing, no?

I'll agree, what happened in between is still very cloudy & we need to wait for the black box confirmation etc etc

 

I have to respectfully disagree with this. I mean, yes, the Captain did a good thing by beaching the ship where he did. I will give him credit for that. But that doesn't make him any sort of hero and he still deserves massive punishment. This was HIS FAULT, even if he somewhat corrected it in the end. More than 30 people are still dead.

 

If a serial killer killed 30 people, then donated his blood and bone marrow to save the lives of hundreds -- he still needs to be in jail for being a serial killer. In my opinion, the captain deserves to be vilified.

 

I totally agree. I didn't mean to indicate in any way I thought he was a hero. Just that maybe some of his actions, if it was indeed the Captain, deserve a little credit, trying to rectify his mistake in what he believed to be the best way possible, before he completely bottled it. The question remains though, was it the Captain? We just don't know at this moment in time.

 

suzki

I'd feel exactly the same in your position. In fact I can't help feeling a little traumatized as it is, having sailed with my family, on this ship, on this route, with this Captain. I can see myself in the situation & don't think we'd fare too well. God help those poor people who went through it, who lost loved ones....& your moms too. The must wonder about the what ifs too...what if they'd travelled a week earlier, what if the Captain had made his salute a week later......

[Uniall]

 

Forgive me for showing this cutaway view at this time but I would like to show that where the gash happened on the port side seems to exactly where the main generators are located.

 

this is supposedly the Concordia Class model.

http://www.worldcruise-network.com/projects/costa-concordia/costa-concordia1.html

 

 

You have no reason to ask for forgiveness for posting a great cut away picture of the ship. This is a picture worth 10,000 words and adds another dimension to the discussion. I've never encountered a thread with so many posts that have such a narrow definition of what discussions are "On Topic" or "Off Topic". Thanks for the photo.

[NormanW]

So Astrid was incorrect in saying a stand alone generator is located near the thruster package?

 

Yes they are not self powered. The confusion comes from the design where the power package (which could be called a generator!) and actual (hydraulic) motor are located.

 

Remember where these bow thrusters are located. Deep in the hull at the extreme forward and aft (unless you're lucky enough to have pods! ;) ). A mutli-megawatt genny needs breathing room and a pretty big and tall stack. ;)

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

[PelicanBill]

Back to the thruster topic, a member of the other forum I belong to, a fine lady named Astrid said, and this is her quote "The Wasa Wärtsilä CT300 bow thrusters have their own power generators near the thruster package itself, so it is independent of and does not rely upon the ship's generating system."

 

Through both forums, I'm learning more about cruise ships.

 

Even with the corrections, seems many of the systems are getting more and more independent and redundant in the ship designs. ALso suggests the control systems have good redundant power and communications.

[VermeulT]

Checkout this article from today...

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Costa-CEO-says-captain-misled-apf-1369325267.html?x=0

 

It has some info about the ship's movements, and Costa's stance on the Capt... "Costa Crociere SpA, which offered support to the captain in the hours after the emergency, has now turned its back on the man who is under investigation for manslaughter, causing a shipwreck and abandoning his ship. Schettino, who was jailed after he left the ship, is under house arrest near Naples.

Costa in recent days has suspended Schettino, announced it is no longer paying his legal fees and has signed on as a civil party in the prosecution, a move that positions it as an injured party and would allow it to seek damages in the case of a guilty verdict."